Building a SciFi/Fantasy Library discussion

Ok, I just started to read this series. I have to say, it is one of the best series that I have ever read.

Further… I just found out that HBO pick up the rights to the books and is seriously looking to make this into a TV series!

The director from "Troy" and producer of the "Halo" game are collaborating on this.

HAZAH!

I want Peter Dinklage to play Tyrion Lannister.

I hadn't read any traditional fantasy in a long time, but Martin's novel Fevre Dream convinced me to start the Ice & Fire series last year, and it's great.

Perfect! Tyrion is one of my favorite chracters. Nice find!

Definitely one of the best series I've read - and I haven't even finished the third book yet.

I'm curious about the TV series - I've heard that each book will be a season, which makes perfect sense and is the only way to do any justice to it. Peter Dinklage is an excellent suggestion -- he did slimy (not to mention sympathetic) really well on Threshold.

There's going to be a tv series?? What a massive undertaking.

So, for those of us who have limited time to take on new series...Why should we make room for this one? What makes it so great? I have to say I am intrigued.

think peter f Hamilton but for fantasy, Martin has created a story with multiple plot lines new plot devices, and so many characters that at first it can be overwhelming, but you start to love some characters and really hate others. To top it off, he doesn't mimic L.O.T.R. at all. really original, great series, top of the list for recommends... however I must admit I am slightly perturbed that the next book is still hiding in his closet after 2 years of supposedly being almost finished.

J-Lynn, check out here
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show_g...

for some good discussion from Rob on why it's a good series, and my problems with it.

Short version: good writing, good characters, good plots. I have problems with being overloaded with major plot lines, but otherwise it is really good.

I concur that the excellent and vivid writing, as well as the extremely detailed and thought-out setting make the difference between this series and a lot of "lesser" scifi/fantasy series. My main quibble with it, as a whole, is the (to my mind) over-the-top sexual violence that characterizes the series. I understand the need and desire to set a tone, and that the setting here is a medieval-ish and violent one, but it gets to the point where it seems that, on every page, someone is either committing or describing a truly horrific and graphic rape or incest or molestation, to the point that it actually detracts from the main storyline(s) for me. As much as I enjoy the writing and the story as a whole, I always have to gird myself to read the new books as they come out, because I know they are going to be chock full of stuff that (a) makes me sick to my stomach to read about, while (b) not really serving any point in the story other than for pure shock value and to make things seem extra gritty. And it's plenty gritty enough as it is.

There is plenty of gritty taboo content, however I wouldn't call it shock value, I think it describes the common place events that happens in the lives of the everyday people in the era, if you think about it, Martin has created a vary dismal life for most of the people in the story, battle field butchery, the vile lawlessness running wild on the peasants or anyone not safely behind castle walls (sometimes that doesn’t even save you). Sodomy is just another part of it. Think back to what you know of our own history. The medieval era was plagued with these events.
If you find it a bit gut wrenching, well I think martin did a good job then, that was probably his intent, to suck you into the world to feel the pain and disgust of the characters.

As I said, I understand that (a) the medieval era was not a pretty time (I was a history major, after all), and (b) that Martin was trying to create an overall mood for his books. And I have read plenty of other books that were not sunshine and light all the way through, so I'm not a fainting flower immediately turned off of a story by a whiff of sexual violence. I simply feel that Martin over-relies on descriptions of sexual violence in creating his mood, and that it gets to the point where the random acts of rape, etc., are so numerous that they detract from main action of the story and interrupt the flow of the narrative. Others are free to disagree, of course.

I've read 1.75 of Martin's books. I still love them and I will read the third soon.

So far the violence and rape seem tools in the moment & plot for characters. The books are graphic but I don't think it's overdone or random by any means. I feel Martin uses these ideas to instill fear on the reader. I want the women to avoid the certain characters, because I know rape is a possibility, especially in the society Martin has painted. The incest is just gross & taboo. But... this clearly defines the immoral characters that indulge in the vile acts. Keep in mind the practice of this tradition furthers the participating character's motives as well.

I definitely see what you're saying Simone, when I think of overdone random acts of frequent violence and rape is more inclined by Terry Goodkind. Some of it works, some just makes you say "Was that necessary?"

Nick I totaly agree this genre totally breaks the mold from Tolkien!

Cheers!

Song of Fire and Ice is what I call 'dynastic fantasy'. It is concerned more with politics and intrigue than the good vs evil contests that epic fantasy boil down to. Because of this they don't need to follow some of the themes present in Tolkien's work, and have greater creative freedom. They also tend to be human-only universes, though that isn't necessary.

The other two dynastic fantasy epics I can think of off the top of my head are Melanie Rawn's Dragon Prince (which started off excellent, but tapered off - I still highly recommend the first book), and Jennifer Roberson's Cheysuli series (which started off weak, but got better as her writing improved).

I've never found George R.R. Martin to be overly graphic. To me, his style is more that he's honest rather than glazing over the gorey bits like so many other authors do. I prefer the honest, up-front details to the flowery cover-up writing a lot of authors use.

I'm with Rob on this one--if anyone's a culprit of shock value violence/sex, Terry Goodkind gets the award for that. Then again, I started reading those books in elementary school...so it could just be I don't find violence as shocking as others who didn't grow up with that style of writing. I also read Brian Jacques at a really early age, and for a children's author he doesn't sugar-coat his characters getting their heads chopped off or bashed in.

Hi Min! I previously overlooked your post. You're correct with information. From what I've found, each book will be one season on HBO.

I also looked up Tyrion's actor. I've never seen the show Threshold, but this guy will have his work cut out to play Tyrion.

I can see your point, a larger variety of plot devices might be in order, to color the series beyond the sexual deviancy. My only question would be how? There actions fit so well with them. As rob said, I sometimes find myself talking in my head wail reading urging characters to “don’t go with him” kinda like yelling at a TV “Not up the stairs you moron”

This is why it takes me so long to read the books. I find myself squirming (yes, actually squirming) with the need to yell out things to these characters to keep horrible things from happening to them.
Of course, for those characters which I don't like, I find that I experience an almost bloodthirsty glee when something does not work out for them. (Which is all too rare, alas.)

One of the reasons that I love this series so much is that I immediately fall into the storyline (gore, horror, and all), despite the length of time between readings. As horrible as the events are, as savage as the characters can be, it is very compelling writing.

And Rob - thanks for verifying the season information. I'm glad they are taking the time to make each book its own season. I don't think they could begin to do this series any justice if they tried to cram it all in.
Threshold has been re-running on the SciFi channel lately, if you have acces. It was an interesting concept, but I didn't ever really get into the series beyond the first few.

If someone said, Pick a favorite fantasy series or I'll do nasty things to your cat! I'd have to go with A Song of Fire and Ice. I just find it difficult to choose a favorite anything... Maybe I should just go with Top 5 lists a la Rob in High Fidelity.

Anyway, I think that Martin's writing has a "grab you and pull you in" quality that I don't often get from most books. I love his smarmy characters as much as his noble ones, and everyone in between. As for the discussion of the graphic sex and whatnot, I agree with those who have said that it's part of the scenery. It's a gritty, medieval world and I just expect struggle and strife everywhere.

Where is book five already?!

He still hasn't finished book 5, but hopefully he will soon! I read his blog, and it's a little painful sometimes when he mentions teasers like "Lately it's been Tyrion and more Tyrion."

For anyone interested (he updates about everything, not just his novels):
http://grrm.livejournal.com/

He has a Q&A up posted just recently on the Entertainment weekly site. Keeping fingers crossed that HBO does actually greenlight the series. If they do for it what they did with their ROme series then it will be fabulous.

And yes, Peter Dinklage would seriously work as Tyrion. I've seen him on Threshold and Nip/Tuck and some quickly canceled ABC series and he hit the ball out of the park on all of them. He'd have no trouble as Tyrion.

The issue of the Sex in ASOIAF also came up in another discussion on another board and I was honestly floored because the sexual aspects of the story never bothered me, or better yet, never stood out for me. The violence takes care of that. But in both cases, the inclusion of the sex and violence are so organic to the story and the writing is so exciting and vivid that I barely even think of them as something to be concerned about. I'm too busy worrying about Jon, Sansa, Arya et. al and wondering who'll survive.

Peter Dinklage is the best midget in motion pictures and TV. He rocks.

I've got to find a movie or show that Dinklage acts.

I think Edward Stark is best suited by Jeremy Irons. Maybe he could be guest star or something. After all Edward "buys the farm" pretty early in the series.

If you like small, quiet movies, Dinklage is great in The Station Agent.