Goodreads Librarians Group discussion

I came across the Zamonia series and was adding a second series called Dreaming Books as the The City of Dreaming Books (Zamonia #4) and Das Labyrinth der Träumenden Bücher (Zamonien, #6)(not yet available in English: "The Labyrinth of Dreaming Books") belong to a separate series, too.

But I ran into some problems:
1. How do I address both series in the book title for the German editions? The German editions are the original ones and therefore it sounds strange to refer to "(Zamonia, #x)(Dreaming Books, #y)" while the rest of the title is German.
I tend to use the German series names instead, even if those do not exist: "(Zamonien, #x) (Träumende Bücher, #y)"
What do you think? Should we use the English names instead?

2. How do I name the new "Dreaming Books" series sufficiently? There is no official title of the series as "The labyrinth of..." is just a sequel to "The City of..." and there will also be a third one (unknown name). So I just stick with "Dreaming Books".
Any better suggestions? Shall we call it "The City of Dreaming Books" instead, as it is the first book in the series?

3. On "The City of Dreaming Books" the "(Zamonia, #4)" does not get grayed out. I think this is reasoned to the additional series-reference in the title?
I already tried to switch the series order in the title or to remove the space between both references, but this does not help.

I think the actual consesus was not to add the series information to the title anymore since we now have the series feature.

However, I tend to do it anyways because the information from the series field doesn't appear when I hover over the covers on my bookshelf (and I like to know if a book is part of a series and which number it has).

Adressing two of your questions:
1. When I add a series to the title (see above), I tend to use the language of the edition (thus I used the German series name of the Alanna books for my German editions). It just seems more consistent.

2. "Dreaming Books" seems a good title for now. We can always go back and change it later, should there ever be an "official" or more fitting series title.

4. I noticed something else with this book: Wouldn't it be better to make "Dreaming Books" the first in series order? Zamonia is just the name of the country where it's set, whereas the Dreaming Books also have a continuous storyline (at least that is how I understood it from descriptions and what I know of the books; I haven't read them all yet).

Isabell wrote: "I think the actual consesus was not to add the series information to the title anymore since we now have the series feature."

Actually, while it's optional at this point, many librarians still do so.

Isabell wrote: "I think the actual consesus was not to add the series information to the title anymore since we now have the series feature."
Oh really? I haven't found such a consensus. I just can refer to the Librarian Manual and to a short search within this topic.

Isabell wrote: "Wouldn't it be better to make "Dreaming Books" the first in series order"
I do agree with you. I already made "Dreaming Books" the first one of the series in the book titles.

rivka wrote: Actually, while it's optional at this point, many librarians still do so. "

That's good to know, because there are quite a few places where the series title doesn't appear unless it's in the title.


Daniel wrote: "Oh really? I haven't found such a consensus. I just can refer to the Librarian Manual and to a short search within this topic."

It came up several times in this group, but it always seems to be hidden within other topics. But as rivka pointed out above, it's not so much a consensus as I thought.


Daniel wrote: "I do agree with you. I already made "Dreaming Books" the first one of the series in the book titles."

I tried to switch the series order of the actual series fiel, but then the series appeared two times on the book page (one from the title, one from the series field). So I put both series in one pair of brackets in the title and separated them with a "/", so they are hidden on the main book page (the series titles should still appear when you hover over it on your bookshelf or other places where the information from the series field is not shown).

Would you think this solution is OK?

Actually, I just changed the order in the book title again so that both appear on the main book page. How does this solution look? It's not perfect but the best I can think of at the moment.

I think this is quite OK.

Unfortunately all other editions of the City have got the other order now. (sorry, we just interfere ;-) )
Therefore I think it is most useful to change the order of the series for this book again:
in title: Dreaming Books, Zamonia
in series: Zamonia, Dreaming Books

For the Labyrinth we can establish the new order:
in titles: Zamonia, Dreaming Books
in series: Dreaming Books, Zamonia

OK?



Isabell wrote: "It came up several times in this group, but it always seems to be hidden within other topics. But as rivka pointed out above, it's not so much a consensus as I thought."

Shouldn't somebody update the manual then? Who can do that?

Daniel wrote: "Unfortunately all other editions of the City have got the other order now. (sorry, we just interfere ;-) )
Therefore I think it is most useful to change the order of the series for this book again:
in title: Dreaming Books, Zamonia
in series: Zamonia, Dreaming Books
"

You are right. I didn't notice that the other editions already had the series information in the title. I'll change it back.

now its perfect :-)

I'd like to get back to the original post for one point:

Daniel wrote: "The German editions are the original ones and therefore it sounds strange to refer to "(Zamonia, #x)(Dreaming Books, #y)" while the rest of the title is German."

What is the standard for the languages of series names? Do we always use english series names? Or is there a way to connect the different language editions of a book to the series name in the adequate language?

One example: I own some books of the german edition of "The Wheel of Time", but the series name is in spanish - see here.

That's exactly my problem, too.
I'd rather suggest to take the English titles for the series itself, not the native series titles. And as suggested above, using the localized series titles at the book titles line.

Therefore for the example of Walter Moers:
The native series are German: "Zamonien" and "Träumende Bücher"
However, we use English as a common language for the series titles itself: "Zamonia" and "Dreaming Books".
But for the book titles, we are translating the series titles in the foreign language of the book title:
The City of Dreaming Books (Dreaming Books, #1) (Zamonia, #4)
Die Stadt der Träumenden Bücher (Träumende Bücher, #1) (Zamonien, #4)
...
Cheers to our (relatively new) series-engine, this works pretty well, because the books are already linked to the series via the master-edition and the series name in the book titles are now (more or less) only decoration.

With your example:
The series itself should be renamed into English: "Wheel of Time"
The particular book titles should provide the translated series title:
"Das Auge der Welt (Das Rad der Zeit, #2)"
"La llaga (La Rueda del Tiempo, #2)"
...

Unfortunately there is no real function to have multiple names for the same series.

Just my two cents, what are your thoughts?

I think this is a good solution. It also comes in handy, if the series order is different in the respective languages, because you won't mess up the original series order. (I just had that problem with the "Fünf Freunde"-series).

In this case of alternate orderings, I've read recently, it is common to maintain more than one list. This was the same as with Narnia. There exists a published order and a author-suggested order.
for your example say "five friends (eng)" and "five friends (ger)" or whatever. In this case it its mandatory to turn off the auto-ordering of the series, i think. Add the books to both (or more) lists and order them manually. In the book titles just add the ones that are common for this language.

Sounds this reasonable?

Edit: ah, and don't forget librarian notes, so it won't be changed back and forth

Daniel wrote: "it is common to maintain more than one list."

Correct.

Daniel, I think your suggestion is a very good one! :-)
I didn't think of that option due to the decision not to add series information to the title anymore. But if this is still optional, as rivka said, this is the best way.

I only hope that "optional" will not turn into "obligatory" one day... In that case, I think Goodreads should consider a method to connect the different language editions of a book to the series' name in the adequate language.

Daniel wrote: "In this case of alternate orderings, I've read recently, it is common to maintain more than one list. This was the same as with Narnia. There exists a published order and a author-suggested order.
..."

Umm, I think I don't really get it... If I create a second series for the German series order, wouldn't that result in two different series orders showing up in the book titles, e.g. "Five Have a Wonderful Time (Famous Five (eng), #11),(Famous Five (ger), #19)"? If I create a series I can just add the main edition of a book, which will be the English one, is that correct? Probably I did understand this wrong though, I don't feel confident with the series stuff yet.

Lacrima_Atra wrote: "If I create a second series for the German series order, wouldn't that result in two different series orders showing up in the book titles, e.g. "Five Have a Wonderful Time (Famous Five (eng), #11),(Famous Five (ger), #19)"?"

That's correct, sort of. It will show up that way on the series line, but the title line will only show the first series. Books can be in multiple series. Happens all the time.

Ok, thanks for the explanation.

Is it ok then, to add the second series with the German series title (in this case "Fünf Freunde")? As it won't show up in the book titles anyway, this wouldn't annoy the English speakers.

If the order is different, go ahead and add another series. Please do not add another series, however, if the book order is the same, and the only difference is the name of the series.

That goes without saying ;-)

Great. :)