Classics and the Western Canon discussion

Time to start thinking about our next book. I ran the Random Number Generator on our bookshelf, and with the nominations of the moderators, here's what has emerged for our selections, in alphabetical order by author. As is our custom, I'll leave the list here for a week or two for people to look into the options and for discussion, lobbying, expressions of joy or dismay at the various choices, etc., then open the poll.

Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
de Maupassant, Bel-Ami
Dickens, Little Dorrit
Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment
Euripides, The Trojan Women & other plays (see note below)
Homer, The Odyssey
Locke, An Essay Concerning Human Understanding
Spenser, The Fairie Queene
Spinoza, Ethics

Note on Euripides: When the RNG came up with Euripides's The Trojan Women I almost dropped it out because it doesn't really qualify as a full read, but then I decided to make that choice The Trojan Women and Other Plays, and if it's voted to win, then decide how many and which other plays to read (if we allow 2 weeks per play, which seems to me about right, we could easily read 5 or 6 of his plays in an average book time). It may be a bit complicated since there are lots of editions with different sets of plays in them, and various translations, and we don't want to make people buy a multiplicity of volumes, but many of the plays are available online, so if people vote to read a group of his plays, we'll work it out.

This is tough. I have been wanting to read Bel Ami for a while. I love Maupassant. I think he is a beautiful writer with a wonderful satirical sense of humor.

I could also really go for a re-read of The Odyssey and The Faririe Queene is one I have been wanting to read for a while now.

With our current reading Euripides might also prove to be quite interesting.

Silver wrote: "This is tough. ..."

Better to have too many good choices than none!

Everyman wrote: "Silver wrote: "This is tough. ..."

Better to have too many good choices than none!"

Yes that is true!

With my other reading commitments, I don't know if I can do the next read.

I'm stressed so...I'd go with Euripides because even if I don't read all the plays I'll read some.

Hey everybody, sorry I've not been posting any input lately, but I got so bogged down with GR last year, that I ran away from it for a while.

I have been following your Iliad discussion, though, very nice.

...so if a lurker member is also allowed to comment, I would say these choices look particularly useful, and if discussed, I'd make an extra effort to participate in them:

Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment
Homer, The Odyssey
Locke, An Essay Concerning Human Understanding
Spinoza, Ethics

I haven't posted here in some time and I can't make a firm commitment so I won't vote.

Having said that, I would love to read Crime & Punishment with this group.

Wow, all these look really good! I'd lean towards Euripides, The Odyssey or Crime and Punishment. I'm trying to follow along with The Iliad discussion and have posted a couple of comments but it moves so fast I feel left in the dust! I'm enjoying the back-and-forth between the members though.

Alias Reader wrote: "I haven't posted here in some time and I can't make a firm commitment so I won't vote."

Obviously we would love to have you back; we've missed you.

A firm commitment isn't required. We're satisfied with a hope and desire to find the time to read the book you voted for if chosen, even if in the end you're unable to.

OTOH, we do discourage people from voting who have no intention of participating in the discussion even if their selection wins.

But if it might encourage you to come back because you would feel a wee bit guilty if you voted for the book and then didn't participate, go ahead and vote! We don't object to a small helping of guilt if it brings back temporarily absent posters!

[A bit of tongue in cheek here, of course, but seriously, if you can find the time to come back to us, we would love to have you return.]

Traveller wrote: "...if a lurker member is also allowed to comment..."

Absolutely! We're always glad to see you.

Everyman wrote: [A bit of tongue in cheek here, of course, but seriously, if you can find the time to come back to us, we would love to have you return.]
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Thank you. If c&p wins, I will try to fit it in to my reading schedule. But with reading commitments on and off-line it gets difficult.

To be quite honest, Crime & Punishment is quite a commitment, but it's always going to require some commitment, and I'll be honest - I never finished it before so some prodding would be good.. (probably - though July would have been better)

Due to previous familiarity with it, I guess The Iliad will be the "easiest" choice. (Secretly hoping it will be chosen.)

Obviously the Locke and Spinoza won't be 'easy' (as in facile) but no one else seems to be interested in them. :P

Traveller wrote: "To be quite honest, Crime & Punishment is quite a commitment, but it's always going to require some commitment, and I'll be honest - I never finished it before so some prodding would be good.. (pro..."

We've tackled some other commitment-requiring books (Moby Dick comes instantly to mind, as does Don Quixote), so that's nothing new for us! It's mostly a matter of getting the scheduling at a happy medium to meet the needs of both the quicker and the slower readers.

Traveller wrote: "Obviously the Locke and Spinoza won't be 'easy' (as in facile) but no one else seems to be interested in them."

Personally, I would love to read Locke again. He had so much influence on the founders of our country, and on the development of philosophical thought. He was part of what I consider the last wave of truly accessible philosophy, before it became an academic subject accessible primarily only to full time dedicated scholars.

Hume is extremely readable, I thought.

But after Hume it's German Idealism and it's brilliant but not pretty.

About when would this be starting?

I've been meaning to reread The Odyssey for awhile. My previous exposure to it was an abridged version from our textbooks in high school.

Although I wouldn't mind The Trojan Women either.

Looks like there will be a close vote between three that I wouldn't mind reading.

I'd love to re-read The Odyssey, especially right after The Iliad. I'd also enjoy either Locke or Dostoyevsky. I've wanted to read Spenser for some time now and would be PSYCHED for The Faerie Queene-- that and the Odyssey are on my "to read soon" list. In the interests of being well- read, I should want to read Euripides and Spinoza, feel guilty about my lack of enthusiasm, and will probably participate if they are chosen. If we pick Little Dorit, Bel-Ami, or Pilgrim's Progress, I'll probably sit out again, which is fine by me as I have lots of other things to read!

Another exciting/frightening list. Thanks Everyone. It might be good to read the odyssey ,

I'm presently listening to John Lee's reading of Butler's translation of The Odyssey. Such a delight! It's shorter than The Illiad and has much more variety.

Ibis3 wrote: "About when would this be starting?"

The Iliad runs through March 27. Then a two week Interim read (unless maybe it's a 3 weeker, but most are two) and the next book would start on April 11, or we might wait until after tax day and start it on April 18.

You know, you might consider the Trojan Women as an interim read - it is kind of perfect following The Iliad -- if it doesn't win.

I'm going to vote for Crime and Punishment. I can't believe it myself, but I've never read a Russian novel. Time to correct that.

Ibis3 wrote: "I'm going to vote for Crime and Punishment. I can't believe it myself, but I've never read a Russian novel. Time to correct that."

Ibis -- That's a daunting one with which to begin. If you like it, wonderful. If not, I hope it doesn't preclude you from finding and enjoying others!

Bill wrote: "You know, you might consider the Trojan Women as an interim read - it is kind of perfect following The Iliad -- if it doesn't win."

I might well. I've tended to avoid plays because they're a bit longer than the usual Interim read, but that's not impossible.

Lily wrote: "Ibis3 wrote: "I'm going to vote for Crime and Punishment. I can't believe it myself, but I've never read a Russian novel. Time to correct that."

Ibis -- That's a daunting one with which to begin. ..."

I'm not easily daunted. :) Besides, I absolutely have to read Anna Karenina at some point, so I'll be giving Russia at least a second chance if it turns out I don't like C&P.

Pilgrim's Progress. At one time it was a dominant force in Anglo-Saxon culture. If a family had two books, one was the Biblbe and the other PP. This is the source of the Slough of Despond and of Vanity Fair. What were our ancestors into? I'm for Pilgrim's Progress.

Ah...Pilgrim's Progress is my book choice-- we each get one -- to read with my F2F book group this year.

I have to say, Vanity Fair is a catchier, more appealing name for a magazine than Slough of Despair.

Despond. :-) "Despond" has more of a ring than familiar old "despair".

Yes, yes, yes. You are correct, sir. Abject apologies. :-).

(Tiny, tiny phone screen/keys. I did not go back to check. Lol...half the day I was being auto-corrected in Spanish.)

Bill wrote: "Despond. :-) "Despond" has more of a ring than familiar old "despair"."

"Despond" just slides in deeper and deeper.

The poll has been posted.

I have decided to accept Bill's suggestion that if Euripides doesn't win the poll, I will make that our next Interim Read, since it fits so well after the Iliad. So if you want to read Trojan Women but aren't interested in reading any other Euripides, you can vote for something else and still get to read TW. If we read TW as the Interim Read, I'll allow three weeks for that instead of the usual two.

I haven't been able to participate as much as usual on the first half of the Iliad, although I've been enjoying the discussion. But I would be very happy to read either the Odyssey or Crime and Punishment. Both would be re-reads, but I haven't read either since high school so I'm sure I'll get much more out of them the second time around.

Casey wrote: "I haven't been able to participate as much as usual on the first half of the Iliad, although I've been enjoying the discussion. But I would be very happy to read either the Odyssey or Crime and Pun..."

Well, make a decision and cast your vote!

Have you decided when the voting will begin, Everyman?

The voting has begun, Bill.

Oops. :-)

I feel somewhat akin to Nestor in Book 14, "torn two ways, to join his Argives fast with chariot-teams
or go and find Aramemnon lord of armies."

I ultimately voted for Pilgrim's Progress, but I gave serious consideration to Locke.

Samuel Butler thought The Odyssey was written by a woman. I don't agree, but it's fun to contemplate.

Oh, I understand your position. And it makes good sense. But, see, it looks to me as though Odyssey is going to win the vote hands down. So I feel totally free to vote ... For whatever... Lol...and then probably join the read that has won. :-)

Adelle wrote: "Oh, I understand your position. And it makes good sense. But, see, it looks to me as though Odyssey is going to win the vote hands down. So I feel totally free to vote ... For whatever... Lol...a..."

The Odyssey sprang out to an early lead, but Crime and Punishment is coming on strong!

The Odyssey is pulling ahead. Only a few more days to get your votes in!

I may decide to vote for "The Rape of the Lock" as a write-in. I like the idea of mock-heroic following plain old heroic. Of course, you can't write anything in.

Bill wrote: "I may decide to vote for "The Rape of the Lock" as a write-in. I like the idea of mock-heroic following plain old heroic. Of course, you can't write anything in."

If I hadn't already promised Trojan Women as the Interim read, you might have been able to persuade me to slide the Rape in there. I haven't read it in nearly fifty years. Maybe it's time again.

Perhaps after the Odyssey because that looks to win.

It happens I've jsut read "Rape of the Lock" (for the first time). It's a delight. I highly recommend it for an interim read.

Right now, the two top poll leaders are the Odyssey with 9 votes and Crime and Punishment with 4 votes. If it stays this way, with O more than twice the votes of C&P, I'll probably not do a runoff, but declare O the winner. So if there are people who would prefer reading Crime and Punishment to the Odyssey, and who either haven't voted, or voted for something else, you have a few days to vote or change your vote to at least force a runoff.

I'm new to this group, but am eager to join in the reading and discussion of the next book. Do you try to read from the same translation?