Hard Case Crime discussion

I preferred the pocket size but I do like looking at the new larger covers.

The bigger size was a marketing decision--the old pocket paperbacks are a dying size and are increasingly difficult to place in stores.

That's a shame. I like the old paperback size far better than the larger sizes. Their new size was one of the reasons I quit getting new ones. I will get the Matt Helm ones when they come out. I'd sure appreciate it if someone would give me heads up on that.

Hi, guys -- thanks for all the feedback. Yes, we do plan to release paperback editions of all our hardcovers, typically the year after the hardcover comes out (though not always a whole year later). The pb of GETTING OFF, for instance, is scheduled for this October.

As for the matter of some people preferring the old, smaller format to the new larger format -- we had no choice. Literally: none. When Dorchester Publishing (our publisher for the first 7 years) went under and we had to find a new publisher for the series, we were lucky enough to get 5 offers...but not one of those offers was to continue the series in the old mass market format. It was trade paperbacks or hardcovers or nothing. For many different reasons, the smaller mass market paperback -- love it though I do -- is a dying format, especially for books like ours that don't sell hundreds of thousands or millions of copies in drugstores and supermarkets. I wish it were otherwise, but it's not.

I figured our fans would rather see some new books from us than none, and I'm mystified when I read messages from some who say things like, "I used to buy every single book you put out in mass market, but I'll never buy another now that you've switched to trade." Happily I don't get many messages like this, but I do get some, and they baffle me. It's the same stories you loved, the same art you loved -- just one lousy inch larger in each direction. And yes $9.95 rather than $7.99, but that's hardly an earthshattering difference, even in our current crappy economy. (In fact, $9.95 is uncommonly cheap for a trade paperback, most of which go for $12.95 or $14.95 or more. Whereas, $7.99 was actually pretty expensive for a little mass market paperback.) I'd understand if someone said, "At the higher price I can't buy as many of your books as I used to," but to say "I used to read them all and now I'll never read another" strikes me as bizarre.

Ah, well. Just wanted to give you a bit more color about the matter. We'd have loved to have stuck with the old-school format if it had been an option, but it wasn't, so we did what we had to do. I hope most of you will come along for the ride.

Best,
Charles
---------
Charles Ardai
Editor, Hard Case Crime

Thanks, Charles! Keep fighting the good fight!

An inch each way makes a lot of difference, depending. Any girl can tell you that.
;-)

Seriously, it wasn't the only reason I quit the regular club. I also have too many books & not enough time. You are providing a wonderful service & I will be keeping an eye on your offerings.

Thanks, guys. I'm not sure that anyone has *actually* quite reading them -- but a few people have written in a fit of pique to say they would. I suspect in the calm, clear light of day they might have relented...

Is there a new book club? I subscribed to the Dorchester one but I couldn't find a new one on the HCC page.

No, sorry -- the book club was something pretty much unique to Dorchester, and our new publisher, Titan Books, is not set up to do it. They'd like to, and they've looked into it, but so far have not found a way to do it. For now, I'd say that if you want to be assured of getting each new Hard Case Crimt title by mail, your best bet is to pre-order them from Amazon.

Charles wrote: "No, sorry -- the book club was something pretty much unique to Dorchester, and our new publisher, Titan Books, is not set up to do it. They'd like to, and they've looked into it, but so far have n..."

As international fan of HCC books as long as the books are in print that i can get more im glad :)

I actually prefer the the size of Titan HCC paperbacks, bigger.

I understand the "no choice" option, but I treasure my pocket-sized editions. Today, space is more and more of an issue. I know an e-reader is the ultimate space saver, but my favorite size of book is the small paperback.

Mine, too. I have some book shelves that are just for paperbacks. The new sizes & trades don't fit in them well at all. It's a shame because I have all the original HCC books in one. They look very nice. That might not be the most important thing about a book to everyone, but I have a few thousand, so it's pretty important to me.

I'm sure Charles Ardai and company are well aware of this but here goes... I want to see books printed in America as much as everyone else, but if it's no longer being offered because they've had to cut back, the other option is printing in China. You can get anything, any size done there. Isn't it important to keep demand and choice for books alive here? If those paperbacks outsell everything else, American printers and publishers will find a way to get it done here. Print in China, get an American distributor. There are ways around this issue.

Actually, most (all?) mass-market paperbacks are printed in Canada -- that's at least where the two leading printers for that format are based. Shipping books to the US from China does work for high-end art books, which can be printed there more cheaply than here and have a high enough price point to make up for the cost of international transport -- but what works for an art book with a cover price of $30 or $50 or $75 does not work for a cheap paperback with a cover price of $7 or $8, of which the publisher only gets $3-4. And it's not just a question of price -- it's a question of demand. You and I might like the smaller formater paperback, but the general public clearly does not, because sales of mass market pbs has dropped by half or more over the past handful of years, while sales of larger trade pbs has remained steady or very slightly grown. If people aren't buying them like they used to, and stores aren't carrying them like they used to, it's just bucking reality to insist on publishing them. I mean, hell, I love black-and-white movies, too, but wouldn't recommend that Paramount change its 2013 slate from color to b/w. (That said, we do plan to bring out mass market pb editions of some of our biggest titles over the next 12 months -- as long as the format does still exist we'll at least dabble in it where we can. But I wouldn't expect it to be around much longer.)

Things change. I hated having to change out my 8 tracks for cassettes, too. Instead of an old, treasured book case (it was my father's), it was the tape deck in my car. The 8 tracks were easier, I have to admit. I was never that enamored of them & they wore out fast.

I didn't realize demand had dropped so much for pbs. Thanks for the enlightenment, Charles.

My understanding is that the old pocket-size format is on the way out in general. Bookstores don't like to stock them, so publishers are increasingly unwilling to publish them.

That's true, David. But this year we decided to give the old pocket-sized format (which we love) one more try. We're putting out JOYLAND in that format, THE COMEDY IS FINISHED, and the three volumes of THE TWENTY-YEAR DEATH, and we'll see how they do. (Also one other title we haven't announced yet.) If they do well, maybe we'll do more; if not, probably we won't. But it's an experiment worth running.

Ah, sweet, I haven't bought any of those yet, but I will definitely grab them in the pocket-sized format! Do I understand you correctly that you will be issuing THE TWENTY-YEAR DEATH as three separate volumes?

Yes -- the book is written as three separate complete novels, and we will be publishing each of them as its own separate pocket-sized paperback!

Very nice!

Charles wrote: "Actually, most (all?) mass-market paperbacks are printed in Canada -- that's at least where the two leading printers for that format are based. Shipping books to the US from China does work for hig..."

-- Speaking of low priced chinese art books - those Orbik and McGinnis covers are one of the best draws to the Hard Case Crime books series. Is there any chance yet of having an OVERSIZED art book of just the covers produced ? Or a biannual Hard Case Crime magazine featuring "fold out" cover artwork ? - just askin --

Titan Books did a lovely oversized art book just of McGinnis' work -- you can look for it on Amazon. We talked with them about doing one of Orbik's work, but Orbik was a young guy and didn't really have enough work to fill a book of that sort; and now, sadly, he never will. We've talked about the idea of doing an art book featuring all (or many) of the Hard Case Crime covers by different artists, but again, it's not clear we have enough yet -- we've done about 120 books, but 120 pages would be a pretty skinny art book. It's something we'll keep talking about, though, and I bet we'll eventually do something along those lines.

Charles wrote: "Titan Books did a lovely oversized art book just of McGinnis' work -- you can look for it on Amazon. We talked with them about doing one of Orbik's work, but Orbik was a young guy and didn't really..."

-- Thank You Charles, I love your books, To the best of my knowledge I have all of the Hard Case Crime book, and I believe that there are more than 120 ! --

66 with Dorchester, 2 with Subterranean, 38 with Titan (so far) -- 106 total. (I'm counting multiple editions of the same book as one book -- so the paperback and hardcover of the same book don't count as two. If you count the illustrated JOYLAND as separate from the original, non-illustrated version, the total is 107. If you could the three separate mass-market volumes of THE TWENTY-YEAR DEATH as separate from the original -- which feels like a stretch to me, but if you do it -- that's 110 total. Plus we've got more books coming; 6 more bought so far, so that's 116. That's the highest number I can count to...)

Charles wrote: "66 with Dorchester, 2 with Subterranean, 38 with Titan (so far) -- 106 total. (I'm counting multiple editions of the same book as one book -- so the paperback and hardcover of the same book don't c..."

-- Then I am confused with your numbering system, the Bruen/Star book "Pimp" was numbered 123 ? is that counting the Max Alan Collins books (HHCS 1 - 6) - all of which I purchase just for the covers - and the Michael Chrichton's (HCCMC 1-6) , and Joyland was Joyland (HCC 112) and the Illustrated Joyland was (HCC 112-1), I have been doing my best to keep track over the years, and at times it's been tough, as the time when the switch to Titan first occurred and some of the pocket sized books were re-printed in quality sized paperbacks.. --

When Dorchester went out of business after book #66 and we relaunched the line later with Titan Books, we began our numbering afresh with HCC-101 for the first book we did with Titan (GETTING OFF by Lawrence Block). 101-123 = 23 books with Titan, plus 8 Michael Crichton books (HCC-MC1 through HCC-MC8) -- but you're right that I double-counted two of them, since two of them were originally published among the 66 from Dorchester) -- and 7 'special' books (HCC-S01 through HCC-S07, which are the five Quarry reissues you mentioned plus the movie tie-ins for A WALK AMONG THE TOMBSTONES and THE NICE GUYS). 66 plus 23 plus 8 plus 7, plus the 2 we did with Subterranean Press, equals 106...then subtract the 2 duplicate Crichton titles and you get back down to 104. Then add in the extra editions of JOYLAND and THE TWENTY-YEAR DEATH if you want, and you're at 108. And our next 6 upcoming books will bring it to 114. In any event, not more than 120.

Oh -- and the only ones of our old mass-markets that ever got reprinted in the larger trade paperback format were the two Crichtons mentioned above and Donald Westlake's SOMEBODY OWES ME MONEY.

Oh, and JOYLAND ILLUSTRATED wasn't HCC-112-1, it was HCC-112-I ("I" for "illustrated").

Charles wrote: "Oh, and JOYLAND ILLUSTRATED wasn't HCC-112-1, it was HCC-112-I ("I" for "illustrated")."

-- Thanks for the clarification sometimes it is difficult to keep track, regardless, you do a wonderful job, and may there be continued success in the line. Thanks for taking the time! --

I have a large collection of the Hard Case Crime eBooks editions. You can't beat 'physical' books, but for convenience, ease of storing & beautifully displayed covers (i use a Kindle Fire & the Android color graphics are superb) that never fade or become dog-eared.

I'm halfway through Kiss Her Goodbye . Very enyoyable, so far. I figured it about time i delved into my Hard Case Crime library, having only read one from that collection previously.

Has Titan Books decided to print a few mass-market paperbacks as a test? I think I've seen a couple of HCC's now in both m-m and trade formats.

Since starting to work with Titan, we've published only a handful of books in the mass-market format, generally ones with large, mass-market potential: JOYLAND by Stephen King; the movie-tie in edition of Lawrence Block's A WALK AMONG THE TOMBSTONES and my own THE NICE GUYS novelization; the TV tie-in edition of Max Allan Collins' QUARRY. Aside from that, we did the pb edition of Donald Westlake's THE COMEDY IS FINISHED in mass-market rather than trade (I couldn't tell you why, just a weird random decision), and we reissued the three sections of Ariel Winter's THE TWENTY-YEAR DEATH as three separate mass-market pbs (less of a weird random decision, but not an especially successful experiment). We don't currently have plans to do any more mmpbs, even though I personally love that format. The economics of it really just don't work unless you're looking at a book that will sell tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of copies, and most of our titles are smaller than that.

I should probably note that the 60+ books we originally published with Dorchester in mmpb format are still available in some stores in that format. Those are books we never issued in any format other than mmpb. So you might see those turn up in stores sometimes, even though they're years old by now.

Charles wrote: "I should probably note that the 60+ books we originally published with Dorchester in mmpb format are still available in some stores in that format. Those are books we never issued in any format oth..."

-- Just an FYI, I was in a local store, which was formerly known as "Pick-And- Save" and they had a table full of Hardcase Crime books - a random selection of brand spanking new, of about twenty or thirty titles with multiple copes of each - selling for a buck each (or 99 cents actually), sadly I had already purchased these books at full price. --

Ah - it's good to hear you found those, and hopefully someone who doesn't already have them all will pick them up at a bargain price and maybe get hooked on the series. Generally, the ones you see on those tables will be ones we had too many of in the warehouse and couldn't sell, so we unload them at a modest price just to free up space. But that doesn't mean they're not terrific books! Just ones that we printed too many of, for whatever reason.

Charles wrote: "Ah - it's good to hear you found those, and hopefully someone who doesn't already have them all will pick them up at a bargain price and maybe get hooked on the series. Generally, the ones you see ..."

-- That's good to hear, I was hoping that there were not financial implications with the new deal with Titan, That to me as part of your audience seems to be working out well. --

I'm currently reading 'Soho Sins' by Richard Vine. Really good!

Thank you! It's one of my favorites of all the books we've published.

I discovered Hard Case Crime books when I saw the Stephen King book at a Walmart cardboard display many years ago. I enjoyed that book so much that I ordered the first dozen published by Dorchester as advertised in the book,. Then I subscribed until that service ended. Without really trying I have become a collector, but I have trouble keeping up with the various printing formats and covers. Yesterday I discovered the Quarry TV tie in cover. Charles, can you summarize the published and upcoming formats and covers? I know you have done this before but I find it helpful

It's a bit of a slog, but here's a high-level summary. First 66 books done with Dorchester, all in mass market paperback. Then two hardcover-only collectible editions of Lawrence Block books with Subterranean Press. Then we moved to Titan and it gets complicated. We've published or bought and shortly will publish about 50 books Titan, all but one in the larger trade paperback format, some starting first in a hardcover edition and then reissued in trade paperback a little later. The one that didn't come out in trade pb was Donald Westlake's THE COMEDY IS FINISHED, which started in hardcover and then went to mass market pb instead, for reasons not worth going into.

A few others ALSO came out in mass market pb format IN ADDITION to trade pb: JOYLAND by Stephen King, that TV tie in edition of QUARRY you mentioned.

...and the three separate sections of THE TWENTY YEAR DEATH by Ariel Winter, each issued as a separate mass market pb.

Actually, I forgot, there were two other movie tie in books that only came out in mmpb, never in trade and never in hardcover: A WALK AMONG THE TOMBSTONES by Lawrence Block and THE NICE GUYS by, um, me.

Of the Titan books, the ones we also did in hardcover are GETTING OFF, THE COMEDY IS FINISHED, THE COCKTAIL WAITRESS, THE TWENTY-YEAR DEATH, JOYLAND, BORDERLINE, THIEVES FALL OUT, THE GIRL WITH THE DEEP BLUE EYES, SOHO SINS, SINNER MAN, FOREVER AND DEATH, and the upcoming THE LAST STAND.

As for covers, all our books have only one piece of cover art, except for the two hardcover editions of JOYLAND, which differ from the paperbacks; the tv tie-in edition of QUARRY, which differs from the trade pb; and two of the three the three mmpb editions of the sections of THE TWENTY-YEAR DEATH (one of the three used the same art as the hardcover and trade pb). This ignores small variations, such as a new edition of a book that adds a mention of an award nomination, but keeps the at the same.

Finally: after moving to Titan, we reissued 3 of our old Dorchester titles in new trade pb editions -- SOMEBODY OWES ME MONEY, GRAVE DESCEND and ZERO COOL. But the new editions used the same art as the old ones. (New format and changed type, though.)

[I just noticed this forum showing me only first names on the posts. I am not Ardai nor am I affiliated with HCC other than as a customer.]

The two hardcover only Subterranean Press books by Lawrence Block are CATCH AND RELEASE and 69 BARROW STREET/STRANGE EMBRACE.

GRAVE DESCEND and ZERO COOL used the same art in the new format editions but have new catalog numbers (HCC-026/HCC-MC7 and HCC-041/HCC-MC4 respectively). Also the new ones use Michael Crichton's name on the cover ("writing as John Lange") while the old ones are credited to John Lange. SOMEBODY OWES ME MONEY is the same catalog number and cover art but the typography on the cover is different.

It looks like at least some (perhaps all?) of the older Dorchester printed paperbacks are still available in new condition for list price. I think the three hardest or most expensive HCC books to find are the two Subterranean Press books and the original hardcover of Joyland. If you want all three versions/packages of the initial Joyland hardcover, a) good luck, and b) two of those will be hard to find and quite expensive (the other is merely "expensive").