Life of Pi
discussion
What's the idea behind the island?

I agree with an idea I read from another blog: The island represents life without God, without faith. Initially it seems a good thing, but then realize it is superficial and without true substance.


After all of his trials at sea, with the lack of food and water, pi decends into his own mind to escape the harsh reality that takes place on the boat.
Pi lets himself slip into the oasis of his mind for the time that he is on the island; in essence, he has given up. Here he is sheltered from the daily passing of the real world because his mind creates a paradise for himself, one with food and water and in which he grows strong and happy.
It is a way of saying that it would be easier to let go of his body and die than it would be to continue to put up with the horrors of life on the boat.
Though he may be content to reside within the sanctuary and escape of his own mind, he also knows that this nonacknowledgement of reality and detachment from his physical needs and body is slowly killing him (like the poisonous plants) and that he cannot stay that way for long before it devours him.
The discovery of the carnivorous undertone of the island is pi's mind's way of pulling himself out of his delirious and self destructive state and pushing to continue to fight for life. By doing so, the island forces pi back onto the water and therefore back into the reality of the daily struggle for life.

I like it!


Then we get the island. And we start to think that maybe something's up. We can't rationalize the islands existence as being real. Orangutans, Zebras, Tigers, sure. Huge Island that eats people... not so much.
This is where we get the true divide in the two story versions, and in the implied choice between them. One version is completely plausible, the second is not, and yet we still feel an affinity towards the version with the tiger which (because of the island) our rational minds tell us cannot be true. If it weren't for this blatant magical element the reader would still be able to make the tiger story seem rational, but because of this the reader really has to pick between what their mind is willing to believe and the story that must be accepted on faith.

agreed!!

I like your interpretation of the island. I also think that it talks about the foundation of our decisions and what we settle for (the idea that nobody is safe to be on the grounds of the island at night).

What IF... the story really is not true, it was in his head... if that is the case could the island ..."
I just finished reading and I've to say that I didn't like the book too much. However, the isIand story kept me thinking. It comes down to pretty much two things: #1 The reader has to start questioning the credibility of Pi and actually start thinking what's going on in this book. #2: Essentially, he eats the cook, thereby re-gaining some of his strength.



Yes, this is a correct interpretation. And it almost possibly could be read at the point at which the extended stress has finally affected Pi´s mental process, so the book can be read on even another level.



I really agree with and appreciate this insight! Thank you!

So this is one major problem with his reasoning. The other problem is that I find the other story way more interesting. To think that Pi hallucinated and 'animalised' the chef, his mom, and others, after falling into cannibalism is far more interesting. Whether by conscious chioce, or from falling into a mental stupor that made him incapable of separating his hallucinations from the decrepit and base reality he was living in, Pi's animal story makes logical sense, in that he would have to return to a state of mind that would help him live with his actions on the boat, and thus the story fits, and is to my mind by far the 'better story'. Who disagrees?
I have not read the book since that first reading, but I am more satisfied now with it than when I first read it. Its a sort of the ultimate proof for me that the writer does not own the story, and perhaps does not wholly understand it himself. I have the hankering to read it again.


As he mentioned- when we speed along in a car by a forest. We may make judgements about its contents. But if we slow down, possibly become stranded in that very same forest- you happen to come across all kinds of strange things.
Things that are not explainable or seen in what we know today.
I would think most of the scientists in the audience would see it as just that. It need not symbolize anything.
The island is in the story, because Pi was brought up with a father as a zookeeper and had a love of zoology. On his journey, He saw a 'carnivorous plant like organism' and described it. If he was brought up with an astronomer as a father, we would have likely heard about some new constellation/eclipse...and had a shorter story no doubt as navigation would have been possible. :)
Anyhow. I think the island description...truth or not... is placed to aid with the authors premise that not believing in God- or not believing in the unbelievable/intangible - will make you miss out on some parts of the story. The nonbelievers will struggle to explain it away, just as his interrogators did. Only if you believe in it, despite the fantastical nature, does everything fit
As "New World explorers" set out and encountered new flora and fauna- their descriptions were likely unbelievable to folks back home. . But later, we found the diary sketches of animals that had long stretched out necks and serpeants with teeth- to be just giraffs and alligators. All things that turned out to be true...and still within the realm of scientific explanation. Think a platypus, a chameleon, a dorado's death. I think Pi and the author is toying with the idea that just because meerkat island seems unbelievable -doesn't mean it is not true. Just because you don't know of such a thing, or can fathom such a thing- doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
So when asked to discount the truth, just like a teenage boy, he makes up a violent story, one without animals, one that does not explain everything- he lets the viewer decide. Now, I have given you exactly what you want. Now that you have a story that seems perfectly reasonable - you think that its suddenly true. The island is placed to point out the error of this thinking. Do you dare to believe in the unbelievable? Would you go look for a platypus in New Zealand circa 1850 after hearing a native describe it...or would you tell the natives - clearly all you saw was cat sleeping on a birds nest, in the process of eating the birds eggs
Furthermore, what do you tell such a person if you were describing the first platypus. If you were 16, before iphones and google, you may get frustrated and throw your hands up and say- well all I saw in that New Zealand forest was a cat and an old hobbit type survivalist stalker killer dude, the cat killed the dude. yep. turned to god. end of story

Something like a Biblical story, wouldn't one say. Waters part for escaping Hebrew slaves, but come together to drown the Egyptian charioteers. A story about God's intervention in human affairs to guarantee his "people's" survival.

I am surprised that the believers of the story without animals don't discuss how unbelievable that version is. Its like Patel didn't even try to give non-belief in God/unbelievable a chance.
How did the mother escape the sinking ship?
Pi tried to return to his cabin and encountered a stair well of water. The Oranguatang being on the bananas - ok they both were in the cargo hold. The mother being on the bannas? She swam out, left her husband? encountered the bananas after the ship sank?
Why didn't she ever mention these details or seemingly mourn her husband and other son during their time in the life boat. Its like Pi describes made up characters, not even human....I mean I know they are starving but this account does not seem realistic. Less realistic than the version with animals.
What do you think?

Your name hardly says anything about you. I believe the mother didn't survive the trip because the cook butchered her and then Pi killed the cook. I find both stories plausible but the true one most implausible.
How's that sentence for throwing smoke in everyone's eyes?

I think the mother suddenly, magically appearing on the lifeboat and not discussing how she did this...is just as unbelievable as a meerkat island....
But the meerkat island is explained in detail. And the mothers appearance is not. To me it takes a greater leap of faith to explain the story without animals than the one with.
Like I said elsewhere... I so wanted to believe the story without animals. But a second read does not offer any support for it... It simply does not fit. I think the author does this intentionally. I think this is why he asks which story do you prefer... both stories require some leap of faith to be taken. For me, the story without animals is ironically too great of a leap. Just too much speculation and interpretation to be had....
Perhaps a thread detailing the proof for a story without animals is order.
1) How did Pis mother get on the boat
2) What is the explanation for the bones on Pis life boat... No mention of human bones found. He throws the human bones overboard...but then keeps rat bones...rats that have survived...freshly eaten after 227 days at sea.
3) After everyone is killed.. In a reasonably short time span... Estimate 30 days at most of on the boat mayhem... Now how does Pi survive ...? Fishing... Well he is an assumed accomplice killer at this point... Why does he struggle over the killing of a fish?
The list goes on..


I am looking for reviewers of my story but I'm scared to ask on this thread...because my story has an island!
Contact me if you're interested for a free download. Below is the Goodreads link.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
Thanks,
Ross

I think the island represented Pi's replenished health. He was nearly dead when he was forced to dine on the cook. He was provided with a meal when there was noting more to eat from the storage. Pi was once again brought back from the brink and he body craved the protein. This euphoric experience was represented by the island. So weak that he could not walk and then quickly building back strength. And then, the teeth in the trees was strange, but perhaps it was the moment when he reflected on the horror of being vegitarian and actually eating a man, the antithesis of all things vegetarians stand for. So the story was that he left the island or a "beautiful place" and was back in the reality of the situation which was the boat.
I don't know about the small bones they found on the boat. Anyhow, this is my thoughts on the meaning of the island.


I read this book when it first came out and I loved it!

Pi is trying to say that just because there's no proof something exists, that doesn't necessarily mean it does NOT exist. Like it is with God.
That's what I always thought :)

Leslie wrote: "I totally agreed with your comment...It was such a let down for me!"
I agree... the island is the first solid ground Pi comes across. After all he has been through he is tempted to settle and stay on this island that has fresh water and food. I think when he comes across the tooth he is really finding bones of another traveler or maybe not. Whether the bones/teeth are real or not he realizes that if he stays here he will die and must continue on


I think so too, can't really describe it any better.

The discovery of the tooth in the narrative alerts him to the likelihood that others have been this way before and have been consumed by a contented and liveable but, without faith, ultimately purposeless existence, and that this will be the outcome for him if he stays.
Deciding a life of struggle, but supported by faith, is preferable, he climbs back aboard the lifeboat(wonderful synergy) and resumes his uncertain but more rewarding journey. It can be taken as an allegory for life in a larger sense(Meerkats as a herd like, consumable and faithless humanity that exist in an illusion of there own creation) or on a more personal cannibalistic level; as without the compassion of a sentient, questioning and spiritual self his animalistic alter ego quite literally consumes the souls around him.
A more simplistic, less spiritual but no less valid interpretation would be to say that the island represents the choice of either simply surviving life or living it fully.
This is of course only an opinion, and a simplified one at that. One of the great things about books is how the reader interprets it their own way. I would love to know what Yan Martel has said on the subject.

This is the story that Pi puts out for the animal version, so why need accept all the details. The mother in the second version escapes to the boat. The detail in the first version with the animals is fallacious at the point of the mother not waking up as is most of the rest of the story.

Could we go for a straight Christian analogy, perhaps? Given there are many metaphors and direct references to Christian spirituality in the book. That is, the mother in the novel represents (virgin)Mary, mother of Christ. In the Bible, Joseph and Jesus's brother James are pretty well dispensed with after Jesus's youth, with Mary being a significantly more important presence, hence, Pi's mother gets onto the boat....? Well, yes, perhaps this does go too far...


I think you misunderstand where I'm coming from, and I think you've missed an important gist of the narrative which does allude to a few religions and philosophies, but it does not seek to blend them in some atheistic post modern swill, but actually compares them. Pi undergoes a conversion experience to Christianity as a young boy ( perhaps reread the chapter where he meets and is influenced by the Christian teacher he meets on his walk). Overall, I think you're correct that, ultimately, it is a 'non specific' humanist message, however this does not de-legitimise the use of specific religious or philosophical imagery...

This is the story that Pi puts out for the animal version, so why need accept all the details. The mother in the second version escapes to the boat. The detail in the first version with the animals is fallacious at the point of the mother not waking up as is most of the rest of the story.
Anyhow, Geoffery- If you feel not all the details of the animal story do not have to be accepted. Then the same would go for the story without animals....Which would mean- Both stories are equally true. As well as both stories are equally false.
So again- the author asks, which story do you prefer? It is a preference in the end. Spirituality and Religion (regardless of type) does require a leap of faith. Even to believe the story without animals- you are taking a leap of faith that the meerkat island is not true just as it is presented.
For me, I do believe that animal story is the more plausible story.
To believe the story without animals requires one to ignore too much of the story. One would have to set out picking and choosing information to ignore. Ironically that is just not a very scientific approach. In science- you can not ignore data just because it does not fit. That is dangerous and dishonorable endeavor. So in this story even the scientifically minded- must take a leap of faith. No matter which story you believe.
Good book- most definitely.

I think the disbelief in the story with animals is mostly centered around how true 'meerkat island' can be.
Some are taken aback by the idea of a carnivorous island. They find it to unbelievable...
Here is a link to carnivorous plants ( obviously on a much smaller scale) that are similar to what is described in Life of Pi. Those in tropical environments call them butterworts. Some times if people see a small garden lizard -they have an easier time believing in the existence of tyrannosaurs rex.
I present to you the 'garden lizard' of carnivorous plants
Utricularia (bladderwort, Figure 2), a plant named for its tiny bladders, or utricles. Unlike the other carnivorous plants discussed here, Utricularia often lives in open water, but again where the nutrient concentration is relatively low. One common habitat is in the nutrient-poor bog lakes. In the open water, it supplements its nutrients by trapping insects in a bladder that is like a suction bulb (Figure 1, Figure 4, and Figure 5). Tiny hairlike projections at the opening of the bladder are sensitive to the motion of passing organisms like Daphnia (water fleas). When they are stimulated, these hairs cause the flattened bladder to suddenly inflate, sucking in water and the passing animal and closing a trap door after it.
an excerpt from the link below
http://www.botany.org/Carnivorous_Pla...

I present to you a common problem encountered by people who keep back yard ponds.
Look at the answer to the question posed. Note the day time and night time variance of pH based on presence of algae in the water.
Q. I have just established a backyard pond and it is now one month old. When my pond was newly filled, the water's pH reading was normal. Now, however, my readings are very high, about 8.4 to 8.6. I have this idea that it has something to do with the high levels of pollen. What can I do? Can my goldfish tolerate this condition? They seem to be doing okay for now.
A. First, let me congratulate you on good pondkeeping skills. The fact that you measured the pH upon setting up the backyard pond and have monitored it since then puts you in the top 1 percent of pondkeepers in my book. You are quite right to question the unusual change in pH and to wonder about its effect on your goldfish.
Your suspicion that the pH change is at least partially related to plants is correct, though not pollen. In your part of the country, water tends to come out of the tap at a pH between 6.8 and 7.2. This is what I presume you meant by "normal." (There is really no such thing as a normal pH, so you should always provide the actual numeric reading.)
Fresh from the tap, the water has a fairly high content of carbon dioxide (under pressure) that, when dissolved in the water, forms a weak acid. Thus, the pH is artificially low. When the water is allowed to sit in the open air, a considerable amount of the dissolved carbon dioxide dissipates. Correspondingly, the water's pH rises.
The second cause of pH rise in new backyard ponds is algae. I will bet you noticed that your pond water began to turn green after a week or two. That green coloring is planktonic algae. Algae, like all green plants, converts sunlight to food via photosynthesis. As part of that process, the algae remove carbon dioxide from the water and produce oxygen. Again, removing carbon dioxide from the water produces a rise in pH.
If you measured the pH during the day when the algae was busily sucking up carbon dioxide from the water, it is not surprising that the pH was so high. Had you measured the pH about 4 a.m. before the sun rose, you would notice the pH was around 7.5. This change in pH occurs because at night the algae switch to respiration and dump carbon dioxide back in the water, acidifying it. So your backyard pond pH oscillates over the course of a day between 7.5 and 8.5.
An excerpt from the link below
http://www.fishchannel.com/fish-healt...

Yes, both stories are equally plausible, implausible. And yes, neither story need to be totally accurate to be what actually happened. How many of us get ALL the facts correct in relating such a long-winded account? But it's not only a matter of spirituality that so many of us accept the animal story. The sheer horror of cannibalism far exceeds the atrocious behaviour of Parker.
Yes, this is an incredible book, one which I hope to read more than once. Its repeat would be very much worthwhile. I would heartily recommend it to anyone.

Faced with starvation or any amount of extreme stress- people will revert back to the animals that we truly are.
The scene that played out on the boat was not unrealistic in my mind as a result of cannibalism. Of course we see many examples of cannibalism in some "pre-civilization" peoples. We know it occurs occasionally with our close cousins- the chimpanzees. A recent popular movie was based on the idea, Alive. And from time to time we run across newspaper articles of the "odd" serial killer who chooses to kill and eat parts/all of the human victims. Murder and cannibalism are as real to me as the sunrise and sunset.
Tell me, how do you rationalize the existence of the meerkat bones in the boat. Were they just rats bones? How are there rat bones left- when he had to resort to cannibalism? Why resort to cannibalism if you had lots of ship rats to snack on? Why leave rat bones in your ship, but not the human bones? He could have used them to fish/weapons etc

I find the island a bit over the top. Cannibalistic plants with bones;that just beggars the imagination. The story up to that point had the barest plausibility, but I simply can't buy the island. I suspect the author was influenced by Doris Lessing's novel about the Descent to Hell, can't recall the exact name but it was the book that first garnered her international fame, in which there is likewise a mysterious island with strange beings.

pg. 299
"... By the way, how do you explain the meerkat bones in the lifeboat?"
" Yes the bones of a small animal were--"
" More than one!"
"-- of some small animals were found in the lifeboat. They must have come from the ship."
" We had no meerkats at the zoo"
:) I would really encourage you to do that second read, with your premise in mind.
all discussions on this book
|
post a new topic
Life of Pi (other topics)
Books mentioned in this topic
Doing Max Vinyl (other topics)Life of Pi (other topics)
A different, but related and interesting question is the significance of the meerkats. At first I thought this was crazy, that there floating in the middle of nowhere was an island, that wasn't really an island, inhabited by millions of meerkats. On face value it's ridiculous. However, their presence on the 'island' is no less probable than his or Richard Parker's. The original one(s) were merely similarly unfortunate souls that also happened to find the island and not being able to comprehend the true nature of the island (because as Pi's father had tried to teach him by demonstrating how Richard Parker would react to the tethered goat, we often anthropomorphise animals when really it is just a reflection of ourselves in their eyes and they don't have the gift of rational thought), set about to form a symbiotic relationship with it.
This was not clear to me until I saw the movie and thought, look how they all turn at once, do the same things, do things by routine in order to survive as do people trapped in less than ideal circumstances where they must do whatever they need to in order to survive and in time come to accept their lot and adapt.
It reminds me of social media such as Facebook. It's like a cyber island floating in a cyber ocean and it is collecting swathes of human flotsam by offering them sanctuary. Unfortunately it will ultimately consume them and they will be forgotten in a blink of the eye like the hapless soul whose tooth was discovered embedded in the island's vegetation. Some people do not possess the ability to realise their peril and so they end up trapped and in the end adapt to their incarceration consequently losing their ability to function effectively in the real world. Like the meerkat, once they are on the island they have no way (strategies), of getting off it again. As time goes on more and more people are attracted, like moths to a light, to this cyber island until there are literally millions of similarly unarmed people trapped, forming a counter culture that seems perfectly normal to those in it while the island keeps getting fatter and fatter.