Boxall's 1001 Books You Must Read Before You Die discussion

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If Not Now, When?
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December {2008} Discussion -- IF NOT NOW, WHEN? by Primo Levi
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Dec 15, 2008 04:46AM

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oops - put this discussion is the wrong spot
It is slow going, but thin at least. I don't know that we'll have much participation because of the holiday, but we'll see.
Nikki, this was a part of history that was left out of my education too. We must have learned about Nazi Germany every year since 5th grade and the resisance movements were not mentioned (that I remember). Here is a link to a Holocaust timeline that discusses the topic - http://fcit.usf.edu/HOLOCAUST/timelin...
What is interesting in particular for me is the effect of topography. I think it was a general who said "he who controls the weather controls the battle field" - not the same thing but related I suppose. At any rate, it's interesting that the way this aspect of WWII is presented paints this picture of passive victimization only ended by Americans and others rolling in with tanks, rather than the heroism of these small bands of people. But I guess that is really always the way it's presented - as macro vs. micro history. The map vs. trenches.
It is slow going, but thin at least. I don't know that we'll have much participation because of the holiday, but we'll see.
Nikki, this was a part of history that was left out of my education too. We must have learned about Nazi Germany every year since 5th grade and the resisance movements were not mentioned (that I remember). Here is a link to a Holocaust timeline that discusses the topic - http://fcit.usf.edu/HOLOCAUST/timelin...
What is interesting in particular for me is the effect of topography. I think it was a general who said "he who controls the weather controls the battle field" - not the same thing but related I suppose. At any rate, it's interesting that the way this aspect of WWII is presented paints this picture of passive victimization only ended by Americans and others rolling in with tanks, rather than the heroism of these small bands of people. But I guess that is really always the way it's presented - as macro vs. micro history. The map vs. trenches.

The fact that they pinned so much hope on Israel was tragic with the benefit of hindsight. It seemed to cruel that they went through so much, only to be plunged into a new conflict that they had never imagined. It explained for me more clearly than anything else I've read why Israel is important to Jewish people.
Exactly - to be honest I tend to bristle at the hypocricy of Israel as an example of using dirty water to mop up a mess. The League of Nations carved it out of Palestine, displacing the people who already considered the land their home, despite the fact that these newly displaced were usurpers themselves. This may be a fair unfairness if it weren't for the subsequent attitude of "Manifest Destiny" there and expansion into Palestine territory that spurs s much of the bloodshed over there...
The sense of dislocation is not uniquely a Jewish experience. It's a human one that shared by many groups., There have been many genocides. But I absolutely - his book really brings the realities of that desperation and dislocation, as you said, home. Again, this kind of story is so important to tell, so important to read, because you realize that the difference between history as it is understood in the sense of big, long-term causes and effects and history as people really experience it is very different, and that in the end the best path toward empathy is in this micro-view of history, and of course with more empathy, a greater peace is possible - or not, who knows - idealism isn't considered a very intelligent position because it doesn't bear out with the cyclical nature of how the world works, which probably feeds the complacency that pervades modern life now - those who are comfortable care but don't believe they can effect change or believe conflict is inevitable, and it is...
The sense of dislocation is not uniquely a Jewish experience. It's a human one that shared by many groups., There have been many genocides. But I absolutely - his book really brings the realities of that desperation and dislocation, as you said, home. Again, this kind of story is so important to tell, so important to read, because you realize that the difference between history as it is understood in the sense of big, long-term causes and effects and history as people really experience it is very different, and that in the end the best path toward empathy is in this micro-view of history, and of course with more empathy, a greater peace is possible - or not, who knows - idealism isn't considered a very intelligent position because it doesn't bear out with the cyclical nature of how the world works, which probably feeds the complacency that pervades modern life now - those who are comfortable care but don't believe they can effect change or believe conflict is inevitable, and it is...

My edition of the book had an afterword by the author in which he explained that all of the events depicted really did happen, just at different times and at different places. I think Levi's use of the factual information combined with his superb use of detail made the story exceptionally compelling and hard for me to remember that it is a work of fiction, not a true story. Definately one of the best historical fiction pieces I've had the pleasure of reading.
