The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

It is time to discuss the penultimate section of the novel. Please post your thoughts below and contribute to the discussion.

After reading this section, I have two dominant impressions: poor, poor, poor Smike and are we having a Victorian cliffhanger in chapter 60?

The death of Smike is heart-wrenching and sad, but experienced readers have been prepared for it and can easily observe and track the buildup for his death. The first one was long time ago when Nicholas met Smike at the Dotheboys Hall, and Smike confessed that he was afraid of his death because there would not be a single loving face next to him during his final moments. Then readers were clued in about his worsening condition, about his reclusive behavior, and the trip Nicholas and he had to take to the countryside to ease his pains.
Despite the gradual preparation, his death is still painful. It is the first death of the fundamentally good and deeply tragic character in the book; however, there were a number of deaths in the novel. It started with the death of Ralph’s brother, was followed by the death of Lord Verysopht, Mr. Bray, and now Smike. The consolation both for Smike and the readers is that he was not surrounded by ugly, awful faces, but his last moments on earth were accompanied by his best friend, companion, and cousin, Nicholas.

An ever profit-voracious Ralph turned out to be the father of Smike, and what a bitter irony it is after his numerous attempts to find a father for Smike One of the last Ralph’s descriptions in the novel is a very Gothic one. This man is doomed, and you can see the shadow of true human darkness hovering right above him.

Tim well remembered afterwards, and often said, that as Ralph Nickleby went into the house for this purpose, he saw him, by the light of the candle which he had set down upon a chair, reel and stagger like a drunken man. He well remembered, too, that when he had placed his foot upon the coach-steps, he turned round and looked upon him with a face so ashy pale and so very wild and vacant that it made him shudder, and for the moment almost afraid to follow.

Oh, human darkness, you are always there when we search for light! If not for you, we would never know the light of loving and loyal hearts.

Yes, the death of Smike was very hard to take, but at least we did have some foreshadowing of what was to come, and so could prepare ourselves for it. And finding out that he was Ralph's son! That was a shocker. There could hardly be two more different people. (We could get into a "nature vs. nurture" discussion here:)

That's a good observation, Zulfiya, about the Victorian cliffhanger. Imagine when this was coming out as a serial, and you had to WAIT for the next installment before you could find out what happens next!! I wonder how long folks had to wait between installments?

Mari wrote: "Yes, the death of Smike was very hard to take, but at least we did have some foreshadowing of what was to come, and so could prepare ourselves for it. And finding out that he was Ralph's son! That was a shocker. There could hardly be two more different people. (We could get into a "nature vs. nurture" discussion here:)"

Mari, your comment is intriguing. Here is a passage from the first chapter, regarding Ralph and his brother, Nicholas Sr.:

"These two brothers had been brought up together in a school at Exeter; and, being accustomed to go home once a week, had often heard, from their mother's lips, long accounts of their father's sufferings in his days of poverty, and of their deceased uncle's importance in his days of affluence: which recitals produced a very different impression on the two: for, while the younger, who was of a timid and retiring disposition, gleaned from thence nothing but forewarnings to shun the great world and attach himself to the quiet routine of a country life, Ralph, the elder, deduced from the often-repeated tale the two great morals that riches are the only true source of happiness and power, and that it is lawful and just to compass their acquisition by all means short of felony."

So, should we conclude that Dickens' view is (1) it's nurture, because Ralph's character was shaped by his parent's frequent accounts of their travails and his great-uncle's wealth, or (2) it's nature, because the two brothers drew such different conclusions from these accounts? As usual, I suppose, the answer is: a little of each.

Bob

As you all said, Smike's death was very sad, esp. the moment when he saw (Mr.) Brooker behind the tree watching and Nicholas not believing him. However, as you mentioned, Zulfiya, he died not alone, as he feared so much when he was at Dotheboys Hall. That is truly a relief and even in this tragic moment a kind of happy ending from his point of view. It was also a touching moment when he asked to be buried where Kate had fallen asleep as a little girl, just to be still close to her.

Mr. Gride turned even more evil and creepy to me, as it was not really the good looks and charm of Madeline, but the deed to her money, that led this old, frugal bachelor to marry her. So in the end, it was not really the girl he lost, but the money, even without having Mrs. Sliderskew steal the deed.
And interestingly, his "friend" Ralph was not better as he married for the same reasons, too, of which poor Smike was the "unwanted by-product".

What I did not really understand was, why Mrs. Sliderskew did leave her master and steal those papers, as she had been Mr. Gride's housekeeper for so long and seemed to share his frugal habits. Was she maybe jealous and did not want to have a young woman in the house who might take her place in governing the house? Did she maybe hope on becoming Mrs. Gride one day herself? She seemed, at least, very pleased about the mishappenings.
Maybe it was written somewhere in her discussions with Mr. Squeers and I just missed that.

Let's see whether there will be some more enlightenments in the last chapters of the novel.

Mari wrote: "That's a good observation, Zulfiya, about the Victorian cliffhanger. Imagine when this was coming out as a serial, and you had to WAIT for the next installment before you could find out what happens next!! I wonder how long folks had to wait between installments? ..."

Mari, I think I read somewhere that it was published on a monthly base. So you really had to wait for the next episode, maybe a little like with different seasons/ episodes of TV shows nowadays.

The installments were usually published once a month (according to the omniscient Wikipedia:-)). Surprisingly, this chapter was not the last one in the original installment, but according to our reading schedule, it is last one in this section, so it is a tiny reading bonus.LOL At least, it will motivate us to read the final section with more enthusiasm. Now Ralph has truly become a rogue character. There is still a tiny bit of humanity left in him: when Tim was sent to announce that Ralph was strongly encouraged to go to the Cheerybles, the first question Ralph asked was about his niece. Otherwise, I believe he is lost to his family.

Bob, an interesting contribution to the perpertual discussion: 'Nurture vs Nature'

Hedi, Mrs.Slideskew is a mystery. I really don't know why they (Mrs. Slideskew and Mr. Squeers) were burning the papers and other documents that could have implicated a number of people. Oh, well.

Zulfiya, I thought the same about Ralph. It was a little reminder of the scene after the dinner with his acquaintances when Kate was crying and he seemed slightly touched. The only sign of humanity. However, the lack of compassionate emotion for his son's death overshadowed this in my memory.

Hedi wrote: "What I did not really understand was, why Mrs. Sliderskew did leave her master and steal those papers, as she had been Mr. Gride's housekeeper for so long and seemed to share his frugal habits. Was she maybe jealous and did not want to have a young woman in the house who might take her place in governing the house? Did she maybe hope on becoming Mrs. Gride one day herself? She seemed, at least, very pleased about the mishappenings."

I think that it is a little of everything. In Chapter 54, she says:

"'Faugh!' said Peg, grubbing, in the discharge of her domestic functions, among a scanty heap of ashes in the rusty grate. 'Wedding indeed! A precious wedding! He wants somebody better than his old Peg to take care of him, does he? And what has he said to me, many and many a time, to keep me content with short food, small wages, and little fire? "My will, Peg! my will!" says he: "I'm a bachelor—no friends—no relations, Peg." Lies! And now he's to bring home a new mistress, a baby-faced chit of a girl! If he wanted a wife, the fool, why couldn't he have one suitable to his age, and that knew his ways? She won't come in MY way, he says. No, that she won't, but you little think why, Arthur boy!'"

And then, when she is with Mr. Squeers, she says that Gride "tricked" her.

I think she is a bit jealous that he wants a young girl, and I think she is mad that she's going to have to take orders from a young girl. She's also annoyed that he told her "lies" to keep her content with not being feed well, and now he is going to spend all that money to get a young girl, and presumably will feed her well.

About the 10000 pounds: I was confusing the book with the mini-series. In the mini-series, Noggs tells Nicholas. But I can't find it in the book either. I haven't read the last couple of chapters - maybe it is there. That's the problem when you read and watch at the same time. :-)

Lynnm wrote: "About the 10000 pounds: I was confusing the book with the mini-series. In the mini-series, Noggs tells Nicholas. But I can't find it in the book either. I haven't read the last couple of chapters..."
Two realities intermingle. :-)

I finished the book last night. No spoilers, but I will say that I am going to very much miss Nicholas and company. :-(

Lynnm wrote: "I finished the book last night. No spoilers, but I will say that I am going to very much miss Nicholas and company. :-("

I must confess, too, I finished the book- I could not stop reading after chapter 60, I had to go on to the end. But I plan on reading the final chapters again, because I really was speeding through it! So please, Zulfiya, forgive us!

Mari wrote: "Lynnm wrote: "I finished the book last night. No spoilers, but I will say that I am going to very much miss Nicholas and company. :-("

I must confess, too, I finished the book- I could not stop re..."

Me too! :-) I had to do the same.

Hedi wrote: "Mari wrote: "Lynnm wrote: "I finished the book last night. No spoilers, but I will say that I am going to very much miss Nicholas and company. :-("

I must confess, too, I finished the book- I coul..."

Well, that's the power of Dickens, I guess!

:-) Dickens is a true powerhouse. I will post a final thread today, and I hope you will leave some nice posts there to wrap up our very inspirational discussion.

Zulfiya wrote: ":-) Dickens is a true powerhouse. I will post a final thread today, and I hope you will leave some nice posts there to wrap up our very inspirational discussion."

I'll be there!

Zulfiya wrote: ":-) Dickens is a true powerhouse. I will post a final thread today, and I hope you will leave some nice posts there to wrap up our very inspirational discussion."

Great, Zulfiya!

Me too. Again this has been a fun discussion.

As far as Smike being Ralph's son, I was thinking about what we would call coincidences in Dickens. In a (non-internet) book group I belong to, we just read Tale of Two Cities, and people remarked on how "coincidental" it was that various people turned out to be related, or crossed paths at important moments. They felt that was a weakness.
I told them that since I've been reading him in this group, I saw that this is the way Dickens designs the book. it's a skill to be able to weave together very unexpected elements.
Dickens usually has some mysteries as subplots and they need to be wrapped up neatly. Many mysteries today include "coincidences" that alert the detective or the reader to what is going on and help wrap things up. We accept them in that genre, but not in literary fiction today.

I remember once seeing a copy of Dickens' notes for one of his novels that had a diagram of the characters and their actions. It was quite complex, and I'm sure it was trickier when the parts came out as serials. He couldn't go back and change anything if the story seemed to go another way.
Dickens did this better than Dumas, who was also serialized, but who sometimes contradicted himself or seemed to forget what he had already told the reader. I love Dumas, but he didn't have the attention to detail Dickens does (he also had "assistants" doing some of the writing. which didn't help continuity.)