Pandemonium
discussion
Julian hate.
I don't hte Julian, I guess that it's more of a loyalty toward Alex tht made me not really want to get into his character. I just didn't really conect with him and maybe it' s me but Julian really isn't a bad guy. I just couldn't get into him.
I don't hate Julian, why would I? He really is a nice guy, who tries really hard to act like everything is okay on the outside, cause he works for the DFA and he needs to put on a show. But he feels like something is missing and that makes him real. Deep down he knows that ther's something bigger out there and he tries to find it.But the thing is, I don't feel like he and Lena love each other. They were together for like a week and didn't even speak most of the time. I don't believe in love at first sight. Sure, they feel a connection, but I don't think it's love. It takes time to fall for someone. For Julian, it's normal that he feels that way, she's the first girl he's been able to talk to openly, and he's fascinatd by her. Maybe, if you gave it sometime, they could truly fall for each other, but to act like if they're already in love... it just seems like love isn't that big of a deal.
It's Lena that made me mad, cause she fell for ANOTHER guy. It might not be fair, in her case maybe the same thing could happen to anyone. But it's a book, and so we get to see things from a different perspective that allows us to analyse everything and to judge. Terrible, I know, but I can't help it.
How could she freaking fall for another guy when she once had ALEX? I can't fathom it. Unfair, I know, the girl should not give up on life, but still. I absolutely loved Alex.
And what really anoys me is that Lena is somehow playing Alex's role and Julian is like Lena when she first met Alex. I really hated that. And maybe, since we can't be truly mad at the author and Lena, we get mad at julian, like it's his fault. It isn't.
I don't hate Julian at all...in fact I felt sorry for him because just like Lena in Delirium has been forced to live like that without love, without the ability to make his own decisions and believing in something so stupid like te cure....BUT as much as I tried I just couldn't connect to him the way that I did with Alex and I really tried to. It was that relationship Alex and Lena had that made me fall in love with the story ....as I read Delirium very scene that had Alex in it with Lena my heart would jump and I'd get so excited but that never happened with Julian. In other words I guess I'm just loyal to Alex and I'm super excited he is alive and can't wait to see what's going to happen. I'm not sure if Lena will end up with him but I sure would love too!
In a lot of ways, I almost felt as if the only reason Lena fell in love with Julian was because she saved him/he saved her, and he was so vulnerable. I didn't hate him, although I just... didn't think their love was that believable. While I don't think Lena was playing him or anything, I just don't know if she honestly loved him? It's more of a "filling in the hole that Alex left", imo.
rayful wrote: "In a lot of ways, I almost felt as if the only reason Lena fell in love with Julian was because she saved him/he saved her, and he was so vulnerable. I didn't hate him, although I just... didn't t..."That's just what I was thinking!! She is not really in love she was vulnerable and she misses Alex so much she needed to fill in that empty space
Fatiange wrote: "I don't hate Julian, why would I? He really is a nice guy, who tries really hard to act like everything is okay on the outside, cause he works for the DFA and he needs to put on a show. But he feel..."So, you're saying that Lena couldn't be in love with Julian because she's known him for a short time, but lets be honest-how long did Lena know Alex? A few months? I don't remember even too much about Alex. We don't know too much about him. All I can recall about him was he came from the Wilds, his parents are dead, he like poetry and loves Lena. I don't recall too much about him.
Now I know Lena's only known Julian for a short time on speaking terms. I know she was tailing him for I'm not sure how long. Anyhoo, We get to learn about his past. What has happened to him. About his brother. The way his father treated him, and his time in the hospital. I don't remember Alex going into detail like that, but please correct me if I'm wrong about that.
Plus it says in the book that Lena was more comfortable with Julian then she was with Alex. She says it herself. I'm thinking she's like that because they they've been in the same position. The way Julian recoiled after learning that Lena wasn't cured. Lena acted the exact same way when Alex told her the truth. So, I do like Alex, but I like Julian a bit better.
Julie wrote: "Fatiange wrote: "I don't hate Julian, why would I? He really is a nice guy, who tries really hard to act like everything is okay on the outside, cause he works for the DFA and he needs to put on a ..."The reason why we don't know much about Alex is because the first book is about Lena...her story ...how she feels...and how she is introduced to love...it's how she views Alex and her feelings for him. Alex is trying to help her so we get an understanding of her view on things. In the second book Lena is trying to help Julian...So we learn about him and how he is introduced to this new world of love...and in my opinion that's why we know more about Julian's past than Alex's.
I don't blame Julian. Sure, he's viewed less (in my eyes) when compared to Alex, but really he just fell in love with a girl. Okay? Fine. Lena? Another story. I'm soooo pissed with her. Like, don't even get me started.
I don't hate Julian at all, i mean... He's a really good , he's sweet, kind and well he's like a old baby he doesn't know anything about real world and he also loves Lena, he has no blame of Lena falling for him but Lena was kind off... Sorry to say this but she was kind off Floozy... I know that when you loose someone that you love you habe to move on, but please! Not that fast! Alex sacrifice for her!! I just think that he falled in love with the wrong girl.Poor of him, he's goin to suffer a lot.
Andrea wrote: "Julie wrote: "Fatiange wrote: "I don't hate Julian, why would I? He really is a nice guy, who tries really hard to act like everything is okay on the outside, cause he works for the DFA and he need..."So I'm guessing that we'll learn more about Alex in the third book. But we know some bad things have happened to Alex because how Lena described it a little bit at the end, so I have no clue what's going to happen next, but I'm sure he has changed. He's not going to be the same as who he was in Delirium.
Julie wrote: "Andrea wrote: "Julie wrote: "Fatiange wrote: "I don't hate Julian, why would I? He really is a nice guy, who tries really hard to act like everything is okay on the outside, cause he works for the ..."Yea Alex won't be the same and as much as I love him and want Lena to be with him I doubt it...Lauren Oliver has said in some interviews that Alex is in a dark place and Lena will love both of them but one won't love her back which I'm more than sure is Alex...we will just have to wait and see
Tabitha wrote: "rayful wrote: "In a lot of ways, I almost felt as if the only reason Lena fell in love with Julian was because she saved him/he saved her, and he was so vulnerable. I didn't hate him, although I j..."agreed!
i like julian.but you just know that she will be with Alex.
like the hunger games,you know that Katniss will be with Peeta instead with Gale.
you just know it.
Janae wrote: "I don't hte Julian, I guess that it's more of a loyalty toward Alex tht made me not really want to get into his character. I just didn't really conect with him and maybe it' s me but Julian really ..."I totally agree.
I don't think we should be so sure she ends up with Alex. I really want her too but have you been hearing what Lauren Oliver has been saying in interviews? It's not good. I said this in another thread but she'sm saying:-There is no love triangle in the last book and she is upset people are assuming that before they read it
-She's saying you don't always end up with your first love
-She's saying Alex is in a very dark place
-She's saying Lena loves both Alex and Julian but one doesn't love her
I think it's clear Alex will be the one not to love her cause he's in such a dark place. Basically I'm saying all this because things look bleak for Alex and Lena and I'd rather people be prepared for the likely outcome they won't end up together now then wait a year expecting one ending and having a completely different one.
Andrea wrote: "Julie wrote: "Andrea wrote: "Julie wrote: "Fatiange wrote: "I don't hate Julian, why would I? He really is a nice guy, who tries really hard to act like everything is okay on the outside, cause he ..."I'm just throwing out guesses, but it doesn't necessarily mean that will be Alex. I saw someone guess what the next book will be about. They said that Julian is going to find out about how they were set up to be together in those tunnels and he'll think Lena was in on it and how she acted was for the rebellion. I really think that will come about in the next book. Reminds me of Hunger Games, but I'm not saying Lena will end up with Julian. Just speculation.
Julie wrote: "Fatiange wrote: "I don't hate Julian, why would I? He really is a nice guy, who tries really hard to act like everything is okay on the outside, cause he works for the DFA and he needs to put on a ..."We don't know that much about Julian either. Just a few details about his life.
We know Alex moved to Portland when he was young, that he would watch the birds, that he would light up things when he got mad, that he lived with a couple who pretended to be his uncle and aunt. He went to high school and attended university. He had a house in the wilds, and was friends with people there. He had a job, where he met Lena. He also worked at the crypts. His father died. He likes poetry, and wants to be free. Plus, he would tell Lena stories about people in the wilds, and even though the author doesn't tell us those stories, I'm sure Lena learnt more things about Alex through them.
Lena caught his attention becuase she looked free. And then he would watch her, and he liked her. I like the way he puts it. At first he simply likes her. Isn't that how any relationship begins? Two people attracted to each other? I really believed in Alex's love for Lena. But I have to admit that at first I thought Lena fell for alex simply because the concept of love was new and exciting to her. But she spent almost two months with him, and they would see each other everyday. It was possible for her to fall for him.
It just kills me that she says she loves Julian. Love is something serious, not just affection. I hate how in most of the stories I've read, the boy and the girl fall for each other and claim their undying love practically at first sight. I like to se how affection develops into love. That's why I don't want to believe that Lena loves Julian.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I just like Alex so much that I see what I want, but I sincerly hope that lena's and alex's love is real. Alex deserves Lena. But I'm not trying to guess who she'll end up with. I'm just hoping.
Fatiange wrote: "Julie wrote: "Fatiange wrote: "I don't hate Julian, why would I? He really is a nice guy, who tries really hard to act like everything is okay on the outside, cause he works for the DFA and he need..."I totally agree with you...when she said she loved Julian I was mad and I started to believe Lena doesn't really know what love means and how serious it is ....I thought Alex is someone that really knows what love is since he wasn't deprived of it his whole life but Lena just learned about it. She spent part of her summer with Alex and I do think that in that amount of time she did fell in love with him and now she spends two weeks with Julian and is in love too? it bothered me that she thinks that you can say I love you to somebody just like that and Julian doesn't love her ...he doesn't even know what love is....
Andrea wrote: "Fatiange wrote: "Julie wrote: "Fatiange wrote: "I don't hate Julian, why would I? He really is a nice guy, who tries really hard to act like everything is okay on the outside, cause he works for th..."Yeah, that's exactly how I feel! She thinks she loves the first guy she feels attracted to. I get it, that she feels good because she likes someone who likes her back, but to call what she and Julian feel for each other love? That's just wrong. Like you said, it seems she doesn't really know what love is. And if her
love for Julian ends up being real, then I truly don't understand a thing about what love is supposed to be.
People can fall in love again! It's not uncommon! Also, I think Julian does know what love is and evidently has a lot of faith in Lena as he gave up his whole belief system for her.Plus, I can understand why Lena would fall for Julian. He may be quite naive, but he's willful and brave, so could you really blame her? AND in this book, they are both lonely characters, so it makes sense that they are together. No, no? Can you see where I'm coming from?
I never really liked Alex. I mean, I think it's great that he helped Lena understand love and all and his "death" was tragic, but I never got into his character. I think Julian and Lena's relationship makes more sense because this time around Lena knows what love means. It's more than infatuation. I feel bad for Alex and his suffering but if he ends up with Lena I think that'd be a little too cliche.
Ok, I don't HATE Julian but seriously? She was in love with Alex. Her and Julian were in an intense situation together, I'm sure they grew to care for each other but I think they were too busy worrying about keeping each other alive to fall in love. Besides what's gonna happen now? Julian is SICK and needs medical attention, has everyone forgotten his Cancer? Where is he going to find Drs that can test him and treat him in The Wilds? He was the FACE of that Group for "curing" teens (I can't think of the name for the life of me right now) so he can't even use a different name because where is he going to go where he's not recognized?I LOVED both of these books and can't wait for the next one but I just feel this was one thing we were expected to overlook :-(
I hate him so much it cannot be put into words.
I need to put in my two-cents here. At first, I wanted to grab Julian by the hair, shake him, and remind Lena that, as always happens in these scenarios, Alex is very much alive. However, for whatever reason, thecharactes just wouldn't liste to me. *shakes head* But then...I started to like Julian's character. Maybe not for Lena, but heck! I'd take him! That is all. ~Watson
Josie Ona, Gale's #1 crazed fangirl wrote: "That can't be true!"was that response directed towards me? and if so, could you clarify?
I don't Hate Julian but i don't want him to be with Lena...
I love both of the guys..i don't hate Julian, to me Julian is so cute and great guy
I loved Julian, but I LOVE Alex. I tend to be loyal to the first love in books like that, though.
Lisa *cantseemtoreadenough* wrote: "I don't blame Julian. Sure, he's viewed less (in my eyes) when compared to Alex, but really he just fell in love with a girl. Okay? Fine. Lena? Another story. I'm soooo pissed with her. Like, don't..."Exactly!! 1/4 of my way through the book, and I was like. SHE BETTER NOT FALL IN LOVE WITH THAT GUY. And when she said that she loved him near the end, I just flipped out....so angry with her. HOW CAN SHE DO THIS TO ALEX?!??!!
For all the people who are screaming Lena had Alex and how could she fall in love with someone else, have yall not read PANDEMONIUM? Do you not remember all the pain and anguish Lena went through with losing Alex and her rebirth in the Wilds. SHE THOUGHT ALEX WAS DEAD. SO DID I? DIDN'T YOU? I loved Alex as much as the rest of you, but I didn't expect the boy to come backi from the dead. And Julian is a lot like Lena, more like her than Alex is. Because she changes!!!!!!!!!!!
Julian and Lena saved each other. She saved him from being cured. He saved her from turning out like Raven, whose heart was buried when Blue died and she hardened, became a model resister.
Also I think yall missed what Lauren Oliver said in Pandemonium in the last pages as a hint about Alex: Raven tells Lena that the found a boy who escaped from the CRYPTS, won't say anything to anyone, not even his name. Raven says, "I don't know what they did to him up there, but--" And then she doesn't finish. The question YALL SHOULD BE ASKING is BUT WHAT? WHAT HAPPENED TO ALEX while Lena was in the Wilds/New York???
AND have yall not read what Lauren Oliver has been saying: (thanks Caroline)
-There is no love triangle in the last book and she is upset people are assuming that before they read it
-She's saying you don't always end up with your first love
-She's saying Alex is in a very dark place
-She's saying Lena loves both Alex and Julian but one doesn't love her
This is what Lauren Oliver has said! And she's the author!!!
Now here is what I think: I THINK ALEX WAS CURED.
RANT OVER
Rachel wrote: "For all the people who are screaming Lena had Alex and how could she fall in love with someone else, have yall not read PANDEMONIUM? Do you not remember all the pain and anguish Lena went through w..."I know all of this and yes I know what Lauren Oliver has said and I still like Alex more than Julian
I have one thought though on all the interviews-maybe Lauren Oliver is doing reverse psychology or whatever? I mean, perhaps she wants us to believe that Lena won't be with Alex? Perhaps she's just trying to mislead us to suprise us? I know things really look bleak for Alex-heck, I'm Team Alex and I'm having my doubts a bit- but I can't help pondering on how Lauren would kind of spoil things like that and make it so obvious in a way. I dunno, maybe because I really didn't buy Julian and Lena's lust-um, "love," and never believed Alex was dead since book one, but I just keep hoping, hm that Lauren is just misleading us? And it's not like I hate Julian-he just kinda fell flat to me. He's sweet, yeah, and I blame Lena more for her sluttiness (6 months to get over ALEX? O_O No possible way! And fall in love again in 2 weeks? What the...?) than blame Julian.
Janae wrote: "I don't hte Julian, I guess that it's more of a loyalty toward Alex tht made me not really want to get into his character. I just didn't really conect with him and maybe it' s me but Julian really ..."Agreed! I am just too loyal to Alex and i want them to be together so badly!
I don't think Lena is in love with either Julian nor Alex but she's in love with the idea of love. Lena barely knew Alex and Julian before falling for them.But I am really loyal to Alex even though in Delirium we don't really get to know him very well.
i agree with julia i was perpared to hate julian but as we got tooo knw him btter i said that if alex ws dead this is who iwanted with lena but i alsoo love alex so conflited
I don't hat Julian... I thought it was great that Lena didn't have to pine and cry over Alex buttt I like Alex more. Wayyyy more, but Julian is a nice guy. Perfect for another girl.... Just not Lena
Julie wrote: "Why does everyone seem to hate Julian? I don't get it. I was prepared to FIERCELY hate Lena's new love interest (I was sure it was going to be some guy from the wilds) but then Oliver surprised me ..."Thank you! I think it was about time for a discussion about all this "Julian hate". I don't hate him.
Personally, I love Julian and would be totally happy if Lena ended up with him or Alex. Both guys are great. Julian is such a sensitive guy. More than Alex I think, and he and Lena both went through all this trouble just to experience what love is. They're both new to the idea, and of course they're going to act stupid about it.
Like people said before, it's their loyalty to Alex that makes them dislike Julian.
I don't hate Julian. If it weren't for Alex, I would really like him. I think he's cute, and he treats Lena well. It's just...he's not Alex.
Emily wrote: "I don't hate Julian. If it weren't for Alex, I would really like him. I think he's cute, and he treats Lena well. It's just...he's not Alex."DITTO! Julian was nice and all but he just isn't Alex. And to Alex fans he his an obstacle in our way and that can bring on some hate feelings.
Please vote for Alex today if you can spare a minute to show him some love. His match is up in the YACrushTourney and he needs support!
http://ya-sisterhood.blogspot.com/201...
@Julie - yeah, I agree so much. Alex is great; I love him. He's exactly the kind of guy I always love. SO I love him; but just because I love him does it have to mean that I will root for him to be with someone?Julian and Lena are equals. And tbqh, I think Lena fell in love with the idea of love with Alex. Lena taught Julian how to love. Lena helped Julian; she didn't just sit in the backseat like she did with Alex. How do people not see that Lena and Julian are more comfortable with each other? how.
And what's with hating weaker characters? Julian's not even all that weak.
And I don't think you have to /know/ what love is to love someone..
I've committed to my love of Alex. That will never change.
Julie wrote: "Why does everyone seem to hate Julian? I don't get it. I was prepared to FIERCELY hate Lena's new love interest (I was sure it was going to be some guy from the wilds) but then Oliver surprised me ..."I don't hate Julian either, but I also don't really feel as deep a connection to him as I did with Alex. Maybe because, really, Lena and Julian don't know each other that well. They barely spoke.
I'm not annoyed with Julian as much as I am with the author. Part of what I loved about Delirium was that there was no love triangle, like there is in most YA books now. It was sincere and beautiful, and I even liked- no, not liked, maybe appreciated?- the ending where Alex gave it all up for Lena. Sacrifice. And when Julian was first introduced, I knew that he was going to become a new love interest, and that disappointed me. Then, when I read about her running and turning to find Alex, I was even further disappointed because I could see that the author was going to leave us with a love triangle, and it was quite possible that Julian could end up being the one she chose. I was so disappointed, I stopped reading for a couple of weeks.
But I never hated Julian. I even liked him. However, I didn't feel the same about Julian and Lena as I did about Alex and Lena. Alex and Lena seemed so amazing, in-depth and strong. I felt like their love was stronger; they could make it through everything. With Julian I felt... nothing.
The part where Lena was supposed to be Alex in this book annoyed me too. Was this Oliver's way of showing his point of view in Delirium?
So I don't hate Julian... but I also don't like his relationship with Lena because to me, it feels flat.
I hated Julian at first. It was because he stood for the DFA and the cure, even if he died because of it. But after he tells Lena about his childhood, I started liking him. But I am kind of on the fence between who I like better between him and Alex. I was happy that Lena saved Julian but Alex was her first love. I hate that I have to wait until 2013.
In comparison to Delirium, I found this book to be a little...bland. Whichever way you look at it, I think it would be cliché if Lena ended up with either Alex or Julian.
What I thought refreshing about Delirium was the way Oliver went the unconventional way and beautifully killed off the main love interest. This sparked originality and uniqueness in a genre that is known for its clichés. So you can imagine how disappointed I was when I read Pandemonium and Oliver decided to bring back said character.
Although I couldn't connect to Julian as much as I did with Alex, I can understand why Lena would fall for him and felt it natural that she would fall in love again after Alex, although I didn't expect her to fall so soon and that fast.
What I can't seem to understand is why Oliver would bring back Alex only for Lena to end up with Julian? It would go against the beautiful message that Oliver achieved at the end of delirium, where Alex sacrificed himself for love/Lena.
there is no point to hate JULIAN cmon it is not one sided love Lena also love himit is been said by Johnny Depp
"if you love two people at the same time, choose the second. Because if you really loved the first one, you wouldn't have fallen for the second.”
and i think so it make sense
When i have finished reading delirium i was so eager to know whether Alex is alive or not but when i finshed reading Pandemonium i am feeling why the hell is he alive i know i am mean here but still let see whats store in next book hope lena gets the best she deserve ................cant wait till 2013
I never undetstood the Julian hate, i like him, I didn't connect with Alex in Delirium, he seemed so....2D for the book. I enjoyed Pandemonium so much more, and i think part of that was Lena being so much more rebellious and tough, but also because of Julian, he isnt the obvious kind of love interest that all YA books seem to have, he's different and i like that. Julian is more like Lena, they understand eachother better, in the long run i just think they would be a more interesting couple. But i dont really mind all that much. Also Julian has blue eyes...and blue eyed love interests win with me pretty much every time ;) xxx
I like Julian. 'Nuff said.
Catherine wrote: "I like Julian. 'Nuff said."Simple...i like it x ;)
all discussions on this book
|
post a new topic
The 9 Ghosts of Samen's Bane (other topics)
Books mentioned in this topic
Pandemonium (other topics)The 9 Ghosts of Samen's Bane (other topics)
If you don't like him with Lena then that's fine, but why does so many people seem to hate him? He's actually a pretty fantastic guy. He's pretty much just been "programmed" his entire life to do anything for the DFA and to think of love as a disease, but he still risked his life for "one of the invalids" and then fell in love with her. That's pretty amazing.
If you prefer Alex then that's completely okay but that doesn't mean you have to hate Julian because he's an awesome character and it makes me sad to see all the hate he gets.
Rant over.