Beyond Reality discussion

Here's a general topic for people who have finished reading The Einstein Intersection by Samuel R. Delany.

Warning: spoilers likely!

I read this nearly three years ago (in May 2009). I was on a 60s psychedelic science fiction trip through Hugo and Nebular winners and nominees back then. Here's my review.

I read this for the 1st time in February and though this is often considered Delaney's most approachable novel, I still ended up feeling under-educated. Delaney does that to me. It almost caused me to create a new bookshelf, Mythic Science Fiction, but I decided there were likely few other novels that fit the category.

Some of the references I did get, but others required reading about the novel as I was unfamiliar or had forgotten the sources. This needs re-reading, like most of Delany's works.

All that said still it is still a fascinating book, even if just read as a story.

It's up there with This Immortal & Lord of Light for me, too. Both fit into the same niche, IMO. I've read it many times & plan to keep doing so. I always get more/different out of it.

The generic Goodreads blurb on this book refers to aliens who have occupied the Earth in the absence of humans. My own take on this is that there has been not only some big time mutations in a post apocalyptic sense, but also some serious racial amnesia. These aren't aliens, just modified humans. As always, with Delany, you'll never know for sure. But it makes for a fascinating opportunity for speculation on the real nature of the characters.

I found myself confused at times, so agree that this is a book to re-read. I enjoy greek mythology, so really appreciated the Orpheus connection. I wish the book was a little longer, though, there was barely one sentence about his love interest before she is gone and he has to leave to find her. I had no real connection with her.

Jim wrote: "The generic Goodreads blurb on this book refers to aliens who have occupied the Earth in the absence of humans. My own take on this is that there has been not only some big time mutations in a post..."

This was my interpretation as well. It also relates to the post-apocalyptic world in Delany's Jewels of Aptor with radiation induced mutations.

A question I have about EI, is what makes it Sci-Fi other than being a future culture after an atomic war. So much relates to ancient Greek mythology, Theseus and the Minotaur, Orpheus and Eurydice and the Chariot metaphor from Plato's Phaedrus, it seems more literary fiction than SF to me. Or perhaps it is just a good example of New Wave SF?

So thought provoking....I really wanted to just start over again the second I finished, but decided to give it a bit. Mythological sci-fi would be my closest guess.

just finished it and i loved it. pretty positive most of it went over my head.. but the language! unexpectedly beautiful.

"an eye bloodshot, brown and thickly oystered in the corners"

"While day leaned over the hills I passed the first red flowers, blossoms big as my face, like blood bubbles nested in thorns, often resting on the bare rock. No good to stop here. Carnivorous." (poor kid death! well, kinda.)

"A fly bobbed on a branch, preening the crushed prism of his wing (a wing the size of my foot) and thought a linear, arthropod music. I played it for him, and he turned the red bowl of his eye to me and whispered wondering praise."

"Chords fell open like sated flowers."

just beautiful. oh and lobey's sense of humor is great too, very understated but fun.

definitely a book to re-read and re-read again.

Andrea, I think you nailed it. The whole book does read like poetry. There are a lot of wild images, but I'm never sure I understand what they all meant. Typical of poetry. I don't usually like poetry much, but this epic quest - the shortest I've ever read - stays on my mind.

I'm not sure how much I liked the author's notes about his own travels in the chapter headings. Sometimes I like them more than others. This time, I felt them more of a distraction though.

andrea wrote: "just finished it and i loved it. pretty positive most of it went over my head.. but the language! unexpectedly beautiful...

Delany's prose is wonderful and he can switch styles at the drop of a hat—a real master.

I decided not to review this until I had the chance to re-read it as well as his novels that preceded.

there's more in this world then? cool. i'll have to read those too.

There are so many personal reasons why I like this book. But in re-reading it, I find that it holds up as a wonder of classic sci-fi outside of my personal preferences.

The "cattle drive" of Lobey and Kid Death, Green-Eye and Spider to get to what amounts to the destination of The Dove is soooo indicative of pulp Westerns, and to set that up as the journey of Orpheus looking for Eurydice is just cool.

And I like that Delaney prefaces some chapters by telling us that he's writing this while sailing around the Greek islands. It makes the time configurations, wild and bizarre as they are, relevant to the present day.

Time configurations? Well, the book came out in '67. I think we are supposed to believe that humanity as we know it found "The Einstein Intersection" very soon after that, and humanity, for whatever reason, disappeared into that bizarre vector, leaving this race of star-wanderers to find Earth thousands of years later and take on the "myths" of Earth -- with a heavy dose of 1960's pop culture as a major part of those myths -- as they try to live here as they think Earthlings once did.

I liked Jon's comment in her review (message 2) -- Was there something in the water back in 1968 that casued SF to write stuff like this?

If you weren't just a little befuddled, then it wouldn't be a Delany book. Reading Dhalgren some years ago helped me get my neurons aligned properly to get through this one. And having seen some transcripts of interviews with the author, I am led to believe that he enjoys putting his audience on. All the more fun.

Theresa wrote: "That might not sell me on reading anything else by him :-) I guess I'm still the most confused about Delany's notes at the beginning of each chapter. What was the purpose of that?"

If you're au courant, they help explain each particular chapter. Or they'r there to make you think you're missing something ;-)

i just finished this up and i'm not sure i have anything to add to the discussion, mainly because i agree with what a lot of folks have said. the language is highly impressive - Delany has such a way with words, so poetic, and at ease with both the prosaic and the profound. the complicated ideas and themes on display are still digesting. and yet there is also a wonderful simplicity to the novel, despite all of its ambiguities. so many little moments stuck out, both as exciting passages and exciting ways to string words and sentences together. Lobey was a great protagonist, Kid Death was a fascinating antagonist, and Spider in particular was a rich and nuanced creation. and all of that in just over 150 pages! superb.

that was my reaction too Mark, that so much was in such a short novel! Maybe I have read too many 500 pagers lately, but it was very refreshing!

Mark, that's why I love re-reading this novel occasionally. Different pieces of it strike me differently each time & it is so superb & short. Truly a work of art.

Jim wrote: "Mark, that's why I love re-reading this novel occasionally. Different pieces of it strike me differently each time & it is so superb & short. Truly a work of art."

What you said, Jim. I've read it maybe 5 times in the past 30 years. Always something new.