You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion

Here is the place to discuss The Flanders Panel. Note: we will not attempt to avoid spoilers!

I have read this. I normally do not read mysteries, so I knew that, even though it normally takes me only a day or two to read a novel, I wanted to allow myself time to read all three of our monthly books.

So, my first question is especially for those of you who do like mysteries.

What do you look for in a mystery? Did this book satisfy you?

I've not read this book or the other I plan to, yet, but I like your question.

I suppose generally a feasible plot, likeable characters, and a good ending!

Cheryl in CC NV wrote: "What do you look for in a mystery? ..."

This is a tough question to answer; "sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't".

Mysteries range from humorous, implausible, cozy to forensic, procedural, gross, etc.

Here is an excerpt from my profile:
"I don’t read mysteries to dwell on the awful things people do to one another, I enjoy the cleverness of the detective and wish that I was that clever too. So, in my reading, I tend more toward forensic and the seemingly impossible deductive thinking. But I find that even detective cats and dogs and sheep and dinosaurs and teddy bears and nursery rhyme characters are cleverer than I!"

I'll be honest to say that I own this book and have owned it for more than 10 years WITHOUT reading it yet! It sounded so good when I picked it up and yet it sits on my shelf without being touched. I don't even want to read it. But here you all are with it showing as the Book of the month. I'm ashamed. I'm in the middle of a shorter type of book so I will really try to get to this one after I'm finished. As to what appeals to me in a mystery: that's easy for me. I don't want to be correct in my guess as to what or who done it. There have been only a few books where this has happened but I was so upset that the author was NOT more clever than I that I threw the book down in disgust. Since I am not known to be particularly clever, this is a rare occasion!

I hope you like it - I thought it was pretty clever.

Has anybody finished it yet? Remember, spoilers are ok, so be sure to come here when you're done!

I just finished The Flanders Panel and I must say I'm going to need a bit of time to digest this one. It isn't the usual type of mystery I read. You know the type...someone gets killed, there are the usual suspects, maybe a twist or turn and then some big, loud scene and the killer is revealed by the brilliant detective making everything right in the world again. This is different. Very clever, more of an intellectural mystery. I'm going to have to think about this one for a while to get through all the different layers.

I found this book to be more of an intellectual mystery rather than a traditional ‘whodonit’.
There are murders, of course, but they are in the past as well as the present. You start off thinking that it’s the past murder that needs to be solved, but that’s only part of it and that murder is ‘solved’ half way through the book. This is much more. The author uses art, art restoration and history, and chess as his vehicles for moving the plot along. I knew nothing about chess before starting the book. What a complicated game! It’s a reflection of the time that spawned it, with intrigue, kings, queens and courts, strategies and battles.
Unfortunately I thought the characters were a bit underdeveloped. The relationship between Julia and Cesar was incomplete. She met him when her father died, but what happened to her mother? Didn’t really get much on Alvaro except that he and Julia had an affair that ended badly. I wanted more information on the other characters and how they all related. I would have cared about them more. This was definitely not a character driven novel for me. One of those books that I can’t say I really liked but couldn’t stop reading. It did prove, though, that sometimes crime does pay.
If anyone else read this one, I like to know what you thought.

I pretty much had the same reactions you did. It was interesting learning about chess, art, etc., but I would have liked more character development, too.

I also wondered about Julia's friendship with that other woman, Menchu. She did not seem likable, or trustworhy, or anything that would make her worthy of being a friend. Imo. (Not that she deserved what happened.)

I wondered about Julia's relationships period. It kind of threw me that Menchu was old enough to be her mother, Cesar was a father figure and it seemed that Alvaro was also older than her. No one her own age. Her live revolved around her profession and even then there was an aloneness about it. None of these people were worthy of being a friend. All of them were completely self absorbed.

Good points. It'd be different, possibly, if she were 'an old soul' or something, but she wasn't really very mature, either.

Did any of you think about the fact that the book was written in Spain? If you read mysteries, did this feel different in a way that you could imagine being because of it being European?

It's very clever the plot I'm finding, but have to agree the characters are 'flat' as they seem to only be in the story to solve the mystery as it were - the characters aren't the main interest in the story the picture plot is and in my opinion that's why they are undeveloped as their characters don't matter as they don't influence the outcome as such (thus far anyway as I've not finished). I understand what you mean but as the mystery is so 'deep' I'm not sure whether it would actually detract if the mystery where smothered by character detail. Just a thought/possibility.

You're probably right Suzie. I guess what I'm discovering is that I'm not fond of mysteries because of that exact thing, that the focus needs to be, or at least usually is, on the puzzle.

I'm rather enjoying the in depth mystery and the complexities of chess as opposed to the character side - that's the time I go for chick-lit when I want to indulge heavily in characters and relationships.

That works, Suzie! :)

Sometimes I come across a book that manages to combine mystery and better character development, but the mystery is more in the line of secrets kept. I read The Distant Hours by Kate Morton recently and she was able to make the characters interesting and detailed as well as keeping the mystery or secret going until the end of the book.
This one, though, was definitely lacking when it came to character development.
As far as the European-ness of the book was concerned,I'm not so sure it made a difference to me. Now that I think of it, it took me a while to realize that it was taking place in Spain.
Julia certainly didn't strike me as being particularly Spanish or European. I could see her as American, Canadian or English. Maybe it's the name. Where do you think Menchu was from?

Menchu's name struck me as Chinese or something. But I'm woefully ignorant.

I like a good mystery and this one was quite mysterious, with the chess element, various people after the painting and the murders, and I enjoyed it as a mystery. However I found the characterisation very irritating. Cesar was a rediculous caricature of a gay man, with his lovely young accolite, and the final denoument made hime even more of a caricature, with his rather dubious feelings for Julia, AIDS and suicide. Manchu's character was also woeful: the shallow predatory older woman, who must die in a way tied to her sexual trangressions. Perez is undoubtedly a clever plotter, but I suspect he holds some views about women and gay men which are diametrically opposed to my own. Admittedly the book is quite old (written around 1990) but I found these attitudes a bit old fashioned and unPC.

It's definitely not so old that those views can be excused because of that. I was uncomfortable, too, but couldn't articulate my discomfort the way you have done, Alison, so thank you.

I had this book for a number of years, but hadn't read it until this month. At one point I started it but stopped because I found Julia too naive and it bothered me. This time I got into the mysteries more readily and enjoyed the intellectual nature of the novel.

At the same time, I agree that the characterizations were a bit stereotyped, although perhaps an earlier version than we would see today. Also, the ending was a bit too neat.

Ultimately, Julia had to grow up a bit, and separate herself from her pseudo parents in order to truly understand what happened and move on. But, she was still sheltered in many ways, even at the end. She truly became the "princess" of the story.

Oh, I hadn't thought of that, of Julia's kinship with the lady in the painting... interesting...

Hmmm. I kinda lost interest in this although I wanted to finish it. It all got a bit too clever in a way but also I agree very tidy. So although I did like the start I didn't really like the end too neat almost.

One question What did Julia think about the monetary arrangement at the end? I expected her to be horrified at the thought. What do you think?

I thought Julia would have reacted differently to her "inheritance". I thought
she would consider it unethical and fraudulent.
Apparently she didn't. She didn't seem too upset about
Cesar committing suicide either. It was a disappointing
ending. As I think about this more and more I'm
finding I like it a little less and less.

Do we know what julia decided about the money - is it not left hanging? Maybe I missed something. I couldn't feel too upset about Cesar dying, he was a murderer after all, although obviously Julia must have been in shock to discover that her foster father was a murderer, so maybe her reactions were not immediately of grief. I was interested in the character of the chess expert who solves the mystery. I kept hoping jula and he would forge more of a friendship/romance at the end. I know he seemed a bit of a saddo, but where there's life there's hope.

It was left hanging, but I got the impression she wasn't horrified by the thought of it, which I felt wasn't the right reaction for her.

I too wanted the two of them to get together. I thought they would have made a nice couple. They seemed to get on well, feel comfortable around one another, and were intellectually well suited too. He did seem like a scruffy saddo but his share and Julia would have out that right soon enough I'm sure. I felt there was a sadness about him though.

Yeah, that's what I meant about me being unsatisfied with the characters. We don't feel like we got to know them well enough to predict what they're going to do after the end of the story, about the money or the friendship or anything.

That didn't bother me until the end, when the plot became a bit too involved and I got a bit annoyed at it! So having finished the book i agree with you.

< grin >

Btw, please understand/ remember that you don't need to have read any other books to qualify for the 'compare all three' badge. If you're not worried about seeing spoilers for those, head on over to http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/8... and participate there! :)

I had mixed feelings about this book, but finally decided on the following review:

I really wanted to like this book because the premise was so great. Guess I wasn't quite enough the intellectual to understand all the philosopher references, all the Latin, and, of course, the chess - even though the chess-game-run-backwards was painfully explained at one point (even enough for this novice to understand).

Plus the characters were not believable and seemed stereotyped. The author went out of his way to describe one's beauty, and one's sophistication, etc., ad nauseum. Great premise, poor characterization.

What worked was the description of the painting and the 15th century mystery explained. Interesting how one was made to feel inside the painting. My interest waned when I found myself inside a chess game. Guess if I'd been a chess player, I would have liked that more.

Ok, these are the folks who get badges for reading this book and contributing to this concise but illuminating discussion:

Roz
Snoozie Suzie
Alison
Lara
Debra
Cheryl

Did I miss anyone? Give me a few minutes and then check out your Wall of Fame!

Cool!