Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

“Writing a book is like sliding down a rainbow! Marketing it is like trudging
through a field of chewed bubblegum on a hot, sticky day.”

--Betty
Dravis


Author and good friend Betty Dravis could not have been more accurate with this
statement. I can still recall the elation I felt after my first novel (ECHOES
FROM THE INFANTRY) was released by St. Martin’s Press in 2005. The sense of
unbridled accomplishment buoyed me for days -- even weeks -- like nothing else
has ever done. And I remained in this suspended state of euphoria for a while -
until I realized that my publisher had only done what every publisher does for
most authors in the way of publicity and marketing -- the bare minimum.

Consequently, my naivete, idealism and and erroneous philosophy of “now I can
just sit back and wait for readers to purchase, read and comment” was rendered
painfully laughable. Then my euphoria abated, replaced by nausea,
disillusionment and pure unadulterated panic. Although my novel received some
very favorable professional reviews, nobody really knew it existed and thus, my
sales numbers suffered. This, in turn, led to a most difficult time getting a
serious look by publishers the second time around.

I was fortunate enough to procure a contract for my second novel, THE LEGEND OF
MICKEY TUSSLER, and was now armed with the knowledge that I would need to be my
own publicist in order to attain some level of success. I didn’t mind - I am no
stranger to some good old fashioned hard work. What I discovered, and what
remains true today as I am trying desperately to bask in the glow of the release
of my third novel, SOPHOMORE CAMPAIGN, is that hard work is often not enough.
This sobering reality comes at the hands of hundreds of unreturned phone calls,
emails, and mass mailings. Hey - is anybody out there listening? There is
nothing more debilitating than being ignored and in some instances just simply
rejected when all you are asking for is a fair chance at having your work
presented to the public for their reading pleasure and ultimately their
approval/disapproval.

This process is so loathsome, so time exhaustive that it almost takes all the
joy out of the accomplishment. Writers should write, correct? If I wanted to be
a publicist I would have majored in marketing at some fancy business school and
devoted my life to this elusive art.

So while I want nothing more than to continue work on my next novel, the third
installment of my Mickey Tussler series, I have no time to do so -- I am too
tied up in trying to wean my newest endeavor off life support.

Anyone else have a similar experience???

I'm only starting out, so don't have those experiences, but I do hear you.

I was a serious tech head once, and got adopted by the sales guys. Apparently I made their job easier with clients who had hard questions. Before I knew it, I was role playing selling paint on a corporate sales course and loathed it.

The thing I was not keen on was selling something I didn't think was that great. As an author, I have to believe in the product or I may as well go back to the computers. If I lose that belief, or the market tells me I suck, then that's what I'll do.

I'm not a massive fan of marketing or selling, but belief in my product does make it easier. I'm itching to get cracking on the next novel but only once the first is in a good place, and if I don't put it there, then who will?

Paul wrote: "I'm only starting out, so don't have those experiences, but I do hear you.

I was a serious tech head once, and got adopted by the sales guys. Apparently I made their job easier with clients who ha..."

I hear you Paul. You have to believe in your product. That's the part that makes it so frustrating - you put out a good product, but you still have to help others "find it." And you are right - if not you then who.....

Frank, I hear you loud and clear. I have just about gotten to the point where I'm going to say, "I didn't sign on for this." I'm going to write, offer a free book now and then, keep up my website, blog a bit, but that's it.

Having your book published is one of life's greatest joys. Having people buy it only comes in second. I self-published and put the novel up for free for a couple of weeks. Knowing there are thousands of copies out there somewhere, and hearing from a couple of dozen people who have contacted me with kind words makes up for a whole lot of slogging through the bubblegum.

Perhaps we just need to let go, let Amazon.

It is indeed absurdly frustrating. Truly maddening. This is my 3rd go around, and I also have a film credit attached to the second novel but I cannot seem to make any real progress. As a writer, you know that all we really want is to be read. Doesn't seem like too much to ask for, right? Thanks for sharing. Hey -- I will purchase one of your books. Amazon???

Getting accepted for publication had been my goal and so I submitted story after story, writing and refining my books and received plenty of rejection letters. Breaking in is really hard no matter what route you take - publishers seem to want something new but they want something that is a guaranteed seller and they want a unique voice that sounds like everyone else's voice. Crazy.

The marketing side is brutal and I do not enjoy it - it takes up too much time - time I'd rather be writing. So, I keep on plugging away and hope that the "right" people read what I have written and offer a marvelous contract. But until that time, I'm glad that there are readers out there who are enjoying my stories and that's all that really matters. I've had to revise my goals to include much smaller steps but my dreams remain alive and big.

Makes sense A.C. But the frustrating part is that even if you get that contract, there are no guarantees that you have "made it." That's what I thought. They tell you have to sell your work but don't offer much help. And the paradox is that if you don't prove that you can sell copies of your book, you don't get to do it again. It's not easy...

That's why I am no longer waiting around for the letter since I have to do the marketing work anyway :) I guess as authors we do what we have to and hope for the magic to happen - it can strike anywhere at anytime and I don't think there is any trick except getting as much exposure as possible to increase our chances of getting "discovered."

good luck!

Mark, You are 100% right in everything you said. And I feel while the electronic book age makes it easier in one way for authors and obviously readers, it has certainly undermined both the quality and integrity of work out there and made it nearly impossible to separate your material from the glut of mediocre books out there.

Yes - the only hope one has is hope itself. Far too capricious and arbitrary to attempt to figure this thing out logically.

Thanks for writing.

Frank

Thanks for voicing my frustrations! I decided to take the self-publishing path, and am just realizing how time consuming it is...

Frank wrote: "It is indeed absurdly frustrating. Truly maddening. This is my 3rd go around, and I also have a film credit attached to the second novel but I cannot seem to make any real progress. As a writer, yo..."


It's not everyone's cup of tea, Frank, but you can check it out at http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005UO0QMI. Allow me to return the favor?

By the way, Mark, it is true that anyone who can hunt and peck can get published, so there is much more chaff than wheat out there. But I kinda like the new world - and the control that self-publishing gives me. A critic said that he was going to try to get me a deal by the end of the year, but I'm not sure I would take it. Yes, it would be swell to be in brick & mortar stores, but in the end, for me, it's more important to get the work out there.

Now, more than ever, we need patience. There are readers out there - we need to trust in the quality of our work. Also, our market size has exploded: the entire world now has access to our writing.

Best of luck. Forgot to mention we also need a bucketload of that!

Yes indeed...luck is essential......

Mark - that is a very real concern, although I suspect that if one really has the passion to write, he will do so regardless of the many marketing pitfalls that await...I know that I wrote all three novels with little or no expectations. It is only now, after receiving some real attention, that I have grown restless and frustrated. You know the old adage -- "a little taste is worse than none at all."

Frank wrote: "“Writing a book is like sliding down a rainbow! Marketing it is like trudging
through a field of chewed bubblegum on a hot, sticky day.”

..."
Amen to everything you say, Frank. I always say my literary baseball novel published in 1996 was critically praised (even reviewed on NPR) and publicly ignored. And it's much, much tougher today, what with the internet and the vast sea of self-published work. It's most difficult to be noticed. And exhausting.

Mark wrote: "What I fear mostly is the death of the novel..."

Yes, at least for independents, when authors have to have the strength of mind to resist slicing up their books in order to publish every three months. Have discussed with a couple lately, who have ample-sized novels, the pressures that tell them 'too big, nobody's going to read that, and besides the way to be noticed/make money is to get work out frequently'.

Mine take four or five years each (after I gave up half my job to make the time) and cannot be frequent.

It's hard today to stay true to your ideals and preserve the integrity of your work. Every author just wants to be read and some will do anything to attain that.

Well, you can hire a publicist if you have lots of money. You know that all the new and midlist authors out of trade pub companies are out there shilling themselves, too. Big companies don't have the budgets for much marketing anymore. We're all supposed to have blogs or at least a website, and my advice is to find bloggers who either review books of your genre (and do interviews) or bloggers who talk about some theme in your book, which works best for nonfic but also for some fiction. These days bloggers are big publicity machines for you, esp as most of them tweet and FB their posts.

Yes, all good ideas. These electronic avenues are indeed viable avenues for authors, as are sites like Goodreads. Thanks!

See, this is really what I hate to see. I understand that not every book is great and sometimes there isn't a market for it. But you've seen all the rejections great authors have received and you just know there are more authors out there that have amazing books.

Traditional publishers got that one guy, who is under pressure, was just hired, and looking for the next hit, sitting in a room reading as many manuscripts as he can so he doesn't get in trouble.

And then even when he finds a good book, the publishing company says, "Well Mr. Author, you better market your book now!" Ugh... Publishers should be the publicist. Publicists should be publishers. It frustrates me.

Writers should write. Publishers should publish and market. Publicists shouldn't have anything to do with books. That's my opinion on it.

What's the alternative?

It's very tricky William. Until you are established as an author who will generate big money for a publisher (ie. Grisham, etc.) they will not invest a lot of time and money in the advertising of a book. The onus falls directly on the author. It is unfair. Rather than working on my next novel, I have spent the last three months embroiled in a self directed marketing plan. I am happy to say that I have had some success, but it is exhausting and leaves little time for anything else.

Well, how do the big publishers get the word about the books? Just spending money on advertising placement and store placement?

From what I've seen even celebrities and successful authors often do a lot of their own promotion. It seems that almost all the guests on interview shows and talk shows are only there to promote their latest book/movie. Even well known authors do book signings, talks and seminars, or attend relevant conventions.

Trade publishers send out a lot of advance review copies to news media, major book review organizations, bookstores, and now even popular book bloggers. They send out a lot of ARCs even for new authors. For books they think will do really well they pay B&N for front cover out top showing in the stores, they also have to pay Amazon to post promo stuff about their books. They try to get top reviewer notice and create buzz as best they can afford. Us indie publishers can't afford to send out 100s of ARCS, and top reviewers and news media don't usually look at self-pub. Trade pubs DO do some publicity, depending on the book, but can afford less and less. (They depend on those celeb memoirs and work by top-rated authors to afford the risk on newer authors.)

Thanks Linda, That answers a lot of my questions.
Indie Publishing isn't really being an author is it? It's more of being a publicist. That's really unfortunate.

One of the things that USED to be decent publicity were the amazon forums - as long as the author posted their books in the relevant sections. What better way for a writer to connect with a reader who is looking for a particular genre? But because of abuses, that is no longer an option. I read an interview with Amanda Hocking (I believe that is her name) and she talks about how that was one of the useful ways in getting her name out there. Now she is doing really well but indie authors are no longer allowed to even mention being a writer, let alone talk about their books, even when it is a perfect fit. So, you work with what you have within your budget and hope for the best. :) Good luck to all of you!!! May lightning strike in unusual places.

Ya I really think that publishers offer the big money that it takes to the ball rolling for all authors. I really hope this can get turned around. I mean publishers as gateways for authors is so poor.

For example:
Despite 14 consecutive Agency rejections Stephenie Meyer‘s Twilight goes on to sell 17 million copies and spends 91 weeks on the New York Times bestseller list.

“An absurd and uninteresting fantasy which was rubbish and dull.” Rejection letter sent to William Golding for The Lord Of The Flies. 15 million sales.

After 20 rejection letters, WM Paul Young self publishes his novel The Shack. 15 million sales and a cultural phenomenon.

Despite 17 Rejections, Meg Cabot continues sending her manuscript out. It gets taken on and The Princess Diaries sells 15 million copies.

And I don't see this changing. Imagine how many amazing books are missed. Anyways. I really want this to change. Change Change

William, You are right. But as long as publishing remain and dollar and cents issue, it will always remain the same. And yes, we are all missing out no doubt on some fine writing I'm sure.

Spare me,folks. What could be more evident to any intelligent person than that there are millions of titles competing for attention, and that books as a whole are competing with every other media product and leisure activity? Moreover, people can be expected to choose from writers they already know (or who are already well known), instead of risking their precious reading time on someone new. Nothing can change these fundamental realities, and therefore the vast majority of books -- good and bad -- will never see commercial success. A writer is someone who proceeds in the face of this reality, usually because he or she just can't stop themselves. Writing fiction (in particular) will never make business sense as a general proposition, even though the vagaries of chance and public taste will make a handful of authors wealthy. So cut the whining. Either graciously, and silently, withdraw to some activity more likely to be remunerative -- or stay at the table and "shut up and deal" at the risk of only digging into further trouble. Nothing is tackier, or more frankly stupid, than this bitching that "I'm not rich yet."

Writing is what it has always been -- a moral challenge of personal faith and commitment in the face of brutally discouraging odds. That's why the great authors are culture heroes, and not mere business people or craftsmen.

Haha where's the like button?

This resonates with most published authors today. Years ago, publishers promoted you along with your book. Not so today. There are publicists out there for hire. Perhaps it would be worth it to hire someone to help? I know I'm thinking about it. My second novel is going to be released this coming fall, and the second in that series will come out early in the new year, and the third the following spring. I just want to write! I'm a freaking introvert, people. I don't want to spend hours promoting. Plus. I have a day job. Yikes.

Right on Barbara. Authors do not want to come off sounding like a bunch of whining, self aggrandizing malcontents who wallow in their own inability to be "read" and appreciated. But as you say, wouldn't it be fabulous if those who write could just do that. Geez, this whole PR gig is very debilitating and extremely time exhaustive. Uh oh..am I flirting with wallowing?????