The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

Here is the folder for the first week of discussion of Charles Dickens' fourth novel, The Old Curiosity Shop. This section covers Chapters I-V. Enjoy!

Recently our PBS station broadcast a production of this book. I recorded it and saved it. I decided I would just watch up to where we have now read. The video stressed the dark, Gothic, and weird nature of the setting (all the curios, the fog and night, and of course Quilp) but it totally ignored the lighter elements. It also made Nell seem fearful and shy.

Dickens stresses that Nell is happy and content in her home (maybe unrealistically so) and she laughs delightedly at Kit's antics. Also the scene with the women advising Mrs Quilp is quite comical, a 19th-century "consciousness-raising" session, although it's followed by Quilp's abusive revenge.

I also found the scene with Mrs Quilp and the women quite comical. I had a good picture in my head of them all sitting round telling her what to do.

I don't like Mr. Quilp. He seemed quite decent when talking the Nell and her grandfather but he was so abusive towards his wife and the boy at the wharf.

As with all his books I've read so far, I was struck by the way Dicken's described his characters. I have such a good picture in my mind of all of them. It really helps bring the book to life for me

I agree, the characters are all very well drawn and no, I didn't feel that Nell was unhappy or fearful (although I did feel she ought to be more fearful, less trusting).

I always find the shifting narrators a strange device, I'm left wondering about the old man who narrates the first 3 chapters and then quits the scene.

While in some ways I agree the scene with Mrs Quilp was comical, it also underscored that the reality for women with abusive or cruel husbands if often incomprehensible to outsiders-the women were very free with examples of how they kept their husbands in line but simply had no idea of how it would be for a woman who's husband was not in the least concerned with her happiness or tears, who kept her in line by threats and likely by violence. Unfortunately her mother is no doubt making things worse for her by interfering.

I also thought about the original narrator who disappears. I think it's just a convention from the time, although I can't think of another example in Dickens offhand. Many novels started with some sort of frame, where the narrator finds a diary in an attic or meets a person on a ship, or some other "plausible" reason to know the story. I was intrigued by the old gentleman who walks for hours through London at night, as I had read that Dickens did that himself.

What do we think about Quilp being a dwarf? Is it kind of like Fagin being a Jew? Something to make him other and more repulsive to the Victorian proprieties?

Back to Dickens! I haven't started yet, but will tomorrow. I've missed him!

I have to admit I had assumed the narrator would come back. It is an interesting tool to start the book like that, and leave us wondering who he is. I personally can't think of any examples of it before but I'm probably not as widely read as some of you folk.

I was surprised by the inclusion of a dwarf as a main character. I would have thought that in Victorian times he would have been ostracised and would not have been able to marry/work in business and in fact would have been lucky to survive infancy.

I believe Dickens had one scenario in his mind, but then he decided to split the narrative into several interwoven stories, so obviously it was hard to witness all of them. Thus, the change was inevitable:-)

P.S. Quilp is the epitome of ugliness:-)

Robin wrote: "I also thought about the original narrator who disappears. I think it's just a convention from the time, although I can't think of another example in Dickens offhand. Many novels started with some..."

I like that idea of Dickens inserting himself as the narrator for the first few chapters until the story itself takes over-reminds me of Hitchcock always putting himself in his movies!

Finally, I have started the novel. :-)
Here are some of my thoughts:

- I was wondering about the change in narrative style, too, and had the feeling, as Zulfiya also alluded, that he was trying to work with a person as the narrator, but realized that he could not continue that way. It was a little strange to me, especially as I started to wonder about that character and his further involvement in the novel and then all of a sudden he disappears.

- As you all said, the characters are well drawn, but I think that Mr Quilp is the best defined character so far. Similar to Nicholas Nickleby, it seems as if the "dark" characters are the ones in Dickens's focus.
Mr Quilp also reminded me a little of Arthur Gride in NN. Maybe Mrs Quilp's fate would have been Madeline's fate if the marriage had occurred. Therefore, I am already wondering what caused their marriage.

- Robin, you made the comparison of the dwarf here and the Jew in Oliver Twist. The way Mr Quilp was introduced, I had the same association. I was also thinking that the title of the novel might not only refer to the curiosity shop itself, but also to Mr Quilp, as visibly different people like a dwarf were often part of circuses and freak shows and presented as curiosities in those days.

After the first 5 chapters, I am really curious in which direction the novel might go and how e.g. the link between Nelly, her grandfather and Mr Quilp is, so I am already eager to continue. :-)

I read this novel several years ago, and have been following your comments, so I thought I might be able to provide some insight into the use of the narrator at the beginning of the book. This information is available in the introduction to the Oxford World's Classics edition, by Elizabeth M. Brennan.

Dickens had begun a weekly periodical called Master Humphrey's Clock, which he envisioned as a collection of sketches, stories, etc. He originally intended to have others contribute to it, but then found it would be better to do it all himself. The character of Master Humphrey was an elderly cripple, and his friends' writings were stored in a clock case belonging to him, so he would tie together the disparate stories by this device. It is Master Humphrey who is the narrator at the beginning of the novel, the first installment of which appeared in the fourth edition of the periodical. The story of the curiosity shop was intended to be a sporadic one; appearing from time to time with sketches about the curiosities to be found there. Soon after he started, Dickens found that his audience were not so interested in his sketches as in his novels, and the readership was disappointing. It was not long before he decided to turn a story that was only intended for a few intermittent installments into a full-length novel, to be published in installments in the periodical. Once he did this, readership picked up considerably. It was at the point he made this decision, that Master Humphrey was dropped as a narrator. Brennan also states, "Dropping the elderly narrator...freed Dickens to express some of his own opinions."

I hope that helps!

Denise wrote: "I read this novel several years ago, and have been following your comments, so I thought I might be able to provide some insight into the use of the narrator at the beginning of the book. This inf..."

Thanks Denise, explains it well. I think it's nice to know the background to books

Denise wrote: "I read this novel several years ago, and have been following your comments, so I thought I might be able to provide some insight into the use of the narrator at the beginning of the book. This inf..."

Denise, thank you again.

I have looked through chapters 4 and 5 today again, and I still have this uncertain feeling about Quilp. Quilp is ugly, devilish, conniving, and somewhat ghoulish (and he is certainly similar to Arthur Gride from NN. A good point, Hedi), but there is also some comical trace not in his character, but in his description. He is definitely one of the best drawn characters so far, but he is also an interesting persona. I feel sorry for Nell - she is an orphan, she is not rich, and there is some family drama, and she is definitely an angelic character, but it does not make her interesting as a character. Quilp, on the other hand, fascinates me by his sheer ugliness inside and outside. He is a human aberration, but it is exciting to trace his life and see what he is up to. :-)

Zulfiya, I fully agree with you that Mr Quilp is drawing the attention at the moment more than any other person. He is definitely the most interesting character so far.

Denise, thanks for the background info about the narrator and the "fate" the author determined for him.

My favorite part of the first five chapters was the beginning with the narrator walking through the city:

"I have fallen insensibly into this habit, both because it favours my infirmity and because it affords me greater opportunity of speculating on the characters and occupations of those who fill the streets. The glare and hurry of broad noon are not adapted to idle pursuits like mine; a glimpse of passing faces caught by the light of a street-lamp or a shop window is often better for my purpose than their full revelation in the daylight; and, if I must add the truth, night is kinder in this respect than day, which too often destroys an air-built castle at the moment of its completion, without the least ceremony or remorse."

I miss the narrator already.

And there is something about a city and the night. The quiet. The lights. You can't see the dirt and grim.

Robin mentioned that Dickens walked at night through London. I like the idea that the narrator might be the author himself.

Although, I've heard that London today is safe at night, but I guess I've read too many of Dickens' other novels, so I wouldn't think of London at that time as safe at night.

Which is surprising that Nells was out at night by herself, and then of course, her grandfather goes out at night by himself. A recurring motif.

I can't add anything to what you all have said about Quilp. He is ugly and devilish. And I'm sure - sadly - will cause much pain and suffering throughout the story. As everyone has said, only Quilp has been drawn fully so far.

And as everyone has said, the passage with Mrs. Quilp and the others was funny. But unfortunately, Mrs. Quilp paid for those light moments. And for her, I'm sure the entire time was painful.

Not sure what to make of Nell's brother at this moment. He doesn't seem like a trustworthy character, but at the same time, he is being kept from his sister - anyone would be upset with that. And all young people go a bit wild for a time. But we'll see.

Zulfiya wrote: "I feel sorry for Nell - she is an orphan, she is not rich, and there is some family drama, and she is definitely an angelic character, but it does not make her interesting as a character. Quilp, on the other hand, fascinates me by his sheer ugliness inside and outside. He is a human aberration, but it is exciting to trace his life and see what he is up to."

That is a problem with Dickens.

But it doesn't have to be that way. No one is perfectly good. And those characters can be just as interesting as they struggle with trying to be good. Likewise, rarely is someone 100% bad; there are usually reasons why.

But again, we never really see that in Dickens. The characters are either good or bad; rarely are any of the characters somewhere between, and if they are, they aren't a major character.