The Sword and Laser discussion

I came up with the idea for this thread over at the "Anti-Intellectualism" thread. While discussing how realistic the portrayal of Quentin and his friends are, Tom mentioned that he could relate a lot to the characters in The Magicians, mostly he was like these characters at some point in his life.

I, on the other hand, cannot really relate. I mean, I do understand how characters like Quentin work on a kind of theoretical level, but I feel like I am very much not like him or most of the characters of the book and I was thinking about how maybe that makes it hard for me to fully dive into the book. If I can't relate to the characters, how can I be expected to actually *like* the book?

Tom said: "So how much is it the author's job to convince us to like the characters that aren't like us? How much is it our job as readers to have enough empathy to understand the characters who aren't like us? And how much is it nobody's job to do either, but just accept that not all stories will work for all people?"

This were more or less the exact same questions thinking about this problem.

It's an easily acceptable truth that not everyone is alike. It's also easily acceptable that this means that in most books we will encounter characters that are different from ourselves. And that is a good thing. We don't want to read about people exactly like ourselves all the time.

But the question is, how can we relate to characters who are unlike ourselves, who have personality traits utterly different to what we have and know and who act in ways that we would never act?

As Tom asked, is it the writer's job to make us feel empathy towards a character who we can't relate to, who we would maybe even dislike in real life? How many reasons and explanations do we need to understand a character's motivation when it's different from what we would say or do in the same situation? Or is it okay to leave the reader alone with a character that he might not like or even understand?

And furthermore: Can you stil love a book when you despise its main character?

Like you, I couldn't relate to the Physical kids at all. However, I think I generally suspend my disbelief when I'm reading. If a book tells me enough about the characters (where they're coming from and how they think), I'll accept those things as given. Is that how I would react doesn't even cross my mind, as long as it seems within character.

I don't think this dovetails with my feelings of empathy toward a character, though. There's a difference between understanding a character's motivations intellectually and understanding them emotionally.

I don't think I can love a book if I utterly and completely despise the main character. If the protagonist does something that I despise, I’ll put the book down and never pick it back up again. Take the Thomas Covenant books—I stopped early on in the first book when Thomas raped the girl. I found that act so reprehensible that I didn’t want to connect with him, emotionally or otherwise.

But I don’t think it is at all the author’s responsibility to make a protagonist who is likeable—or even understandable—by me. The author can do whatever she thinks will best suit the story and setting. After all, it’s not as though I have a responsibility to like the protagonist, or even read the book!

A great question, Anne & Tom; I think that my issue with the way this particular story is set-up is that not only is Quentin tough to empathize for, but that at his best, I started to see him as a secondary character. That feeling when you can tell that a character is about to do something awful (when you'd yell "don't go up there" if this were a horror movie), is tolerable when you understand that it's needed to advance the plot, and when there's a pay-off. What was the pay-off for Quentin's bad decisions and for us having to live his guilt/wingeing long after?

I feel like it's not the author's duty to make us like the character's personality, but we should at least admire their accomplishments and not feel like they're the awkward cousin who won't leave after Thanksgiving.

I started this book early but was stopped halfway through because of other real life things that were going on that just kept me from reading. So I basically didn't finish this book until this last weekend.

I'm not sure why people hate this book so. I know its not a happy book. I know the characters are shallow. But while reading this I felt like I know people like this and I really knew a lot of people like this in college. Most did not graduate or didn't do well once they graduated. People in general have a bad feel for how they impact others and are always a little self absorbed since lets face it, no one spends as much time with you as you do.

While Quinton's decisions where not ones I would have made, when viewed as coming from someone of Quinton's age and background and general personality type the decisions seemed like stupid choices that a real person would have made. This didn't make me hate Quinton but made me feel sorry for him since he never seemed to realize what he truly wanted and in the process suffered and made those around him suffer.

I felt sorry for Alice but I think she had plenty of warning signs that Quinton ( and the rest of the crew ) were going bad. If I were her I would have left and gone somewhere else. You are who you hang with so don't hang out with dumbasses.

This was a different kind of novel but I think some of the hate spat in its direction on these forums is undeserved. I enjoyed the ride the novel put me on even if I wasn't identifying with the characters. I don't need a Disney perfect story. I've grabbed the Magician Kings to see where the story goes.

I actually had more problems with Reamde than I had with this book.

I haven't finished reading through this book's forum section so maybe my mind will change after reading a few more points and opinions of others.