Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

I have read some great articles recently about trying to find agents. This has lead me to ask several questions about the industry itself. Are agents still absolutely necessary? Who has an agent and how did they get them? Is the market moving away from them or making them more important? I would love to know what some people with agents think versus what the rest of the industry thinks.

Matthew R. Horn
www.matthewrhorn.com

M.L. wrote: "I don't care to have an agent. A couple have asked me but I don't need a "car saleman" to be the middle man. Why would someone need one? With the Internet and hard work you can do it yourself- ..."

same publishers won't accept your work without agents. don't know why they don't want to be the ones in charge of you, but i guess they fine to pay higher rates because of agents, but that isn't my cup of tea.

I think it's true that with hard work and a high speed connection you can definitely be your own agent. That works best if you write one book and then want to sell it.

If you're writing a series or have 10 books in your head that you're trying to get on paper, it's really hard to find the time to market yourself. Either you do marketing full time or you write full time...but doing both is difficult. If your books are good enough to attract the attention of an agent, but the sales just aren't coming...then you probably should hire them.

But...just because you want an agent doesn't mean you can get one because unless you are paying them a retainer...which I don't think anyone does...they won't waste their time on a book that they don't think they can sell en mass. They don't make money unless you make A LOT of money. Its really a win/win in many cases. ;-)

But, if you have the time/patience/connections/etc. to do your marketing on your own...you definitely can!

Good luck!!!

I agree with all the previous post, just to add, the word patience. Finding and securing an agent is not impossible it is just time consuming and may take alot of time, so patience and endurance is the key to unlocking this close door.

There is a pitch contest/prize an agent see link below
http://www.worldliterarycafe.com/cont...

Last month, I published an ebook at Amazon. I am my own agent/marketer/salesman etc. I chose to do it this way because in my experience nearly all publishers and agents are stuck in the 19th century in terms of how you communicate with them. To make matters worse, their business model is pure 21st century: only work with guaranteed winners. In other words, only accept manuscripts from authors with a proven track record of book sales or first timers so famous or notorious you are certain their books will sell.

I don't know why a dead cert needs such a team, but I do know this attitude leaves me no choice but to go it alone. The downside is I suspect sales volumes will be very low regardless of the merits - or lack of them - of my book. This is because there are so many others trying the same method after giving up on agents. That, plus blogging, means there is an overwhelming amount of literature available to readers. This is also why so many newspapers and magazines are struggling.

The bottom line is I would love to have an agent do the selling work on my behalf. Even having a reputable agent give me an honest opinion that my book is not "good enough" would be helpful. As neither of these things is likely to happen, I will soldier on and hope my book strikes a chord with the public. I would advise other authors who don't have an agent to do likewise. Good luck.

I agree with you. I think that the advantage of having an agent is that he/she is able to sell your work to a publisher. Having an advancement helps an author focus on sales and promotions. However, I do think that new avenues are begining to open up for indie authors.

I have a terrific agent who tried very hard - and failed - to sell both of my books. It's a slugfest even for agents to get their stuff to an editor, and if an editor loves it, it has to get through the guys in marketing who are, apparently, all under the age of twenty-five(because, in the case of my books, both heroines were 'too old' - at 45). When I told her I was going to self-pub, she gave me her blessing. Here's the thing - I work and a B&N, and I know that if a new book does not really take off in 90 days, it goes back to the published and is not seen again. My first book just struck gold on Amazon - after puttering along for over a year. That never would have happened if Random House was running things. It's a new world out there, folks. And agents are getting into the ebook business themselves because they can see which way the wind is blowing, even if the Big 6 can't.

Awesome Dee! Good for you! Love to hear success stories!

I sent out query letters on two seperate occasions over the last year and a half and have yet to find an agent. Within that nine months between sending out queries my list of agents shrunk substantially as I noticed many literary agencies seemed to go out of business. That definately didnt help my chances any. It seems like agents simply can't afford to take on new clients which is really unfortunate but at the same time I think it sheds light on the fact that their services just aren't as necessary as they once were. They are still the "gatekeepers" into traditional publishing but what does that term even mean any more. Every day traditionally published authors and indies are reaching more of a leveled playing field. I think having an agent would be beneficial but I no longer see them as the necessary.

As if indie authors don't have enough work- there is another indie who is giving 1 star reviews to other indies who rank higher on the lists than her book- this is a cut throat business- she is on page 2 of my customer ratings and when I looked at her profile I saw she had 1 started indie books above hers and given 5 stars to only one book that coincidentally is above the 3 books she gave 1 star to. very disheartening indeed-

M.L. wrote: "As if indie authors don't have enough work- there is another indie who is giving 1 star reviews to other indies who rank higher on the lists than her book- this is a cut throat business- she is o..."

I hope you reported this person for giving out bogus ratings. Trashing the competition doesn't help anyone, it just makes the person talking trash look bad.

Doc

I recommend Dean Wesley Smith's series on the new world of publishing
http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?page_...
He thinks (and I agree) that agents are useless now. If you went to his workshops in the past, he taught you to send your manuscripts directly to editors - yes, even at trad.pubbers in NY.
Even if you get a trad.pubber, don't hire an agent to negotiate your contract, hire an IP lawyer - agents will make you sign very unfavorable contracts because they don't know better.
Remember, anyone with a card can be an agent. They might mean well, but won't be able to help you in your publishing career.
Best wishes!
(and yeah, I'm with Doc about what M.L. wrote, we should all give that person one star reviews! ;-p)

It astounded me that someone would do such a thing- bad reviews are a learning tool and perhaps a suggestion that a writer needs to edit or perhaps put the project aside and start something new- Bad reviews to crush competition is in poor taste- I did a screen shot and messaged the other 4 indie writers about this writer's schemes-

Good word Barbara about agents- I agree- I am going to check into Dean's book-

I did notify Goodreada Doc but have not heard back- it's a tremendous amount of work and expense to self market as you all know- to be shot down by someone who has 4 reviews since being published 2 years ago- not wiling to work as hard as others but more than willing to give bogus reviews instead to help her book appear better-

Maybe you should start that discussion on another thread.

The value of agents in the past has been that most worked for one or more publishers before becoming agents. That gave them the ability to pick up the phone and say, "Hey, Jack. It's me Susan. How are the wife and kids? I have a manuscript you should see." From what I know of the agents I have targeted, that is still true. It's not what you know, it's who you know - in most areas of life. So, I keep trying to find an agent. However, that has not stopped me from self-publishing three novels, selling lots of copies, and learning as much about marketing as I can in the process. Eventually, anything I learn should be of great value to an agent and publisher. Agents and publishing houses want authors who are willing to work hard marketing their stories. Good luck, everyone!

I've had two agents and neither was successful in landing a publisher for my first novel, HACK. Then, 12 years after I wrote the first draft, I was approached by a publisher who wanted to publish HACK based on the advice of a friend who read the manuscript. I also had the manuscript professionally edited which was worth 10 times what I paid because of the dramatic improvements we made. The editor also told the publisher that she would be crazy to pass up HACK.

The publisher is small, however, with zero marketing budget. Unfortunately instead of honing the next novel I have been promoting HACK - very time consuming. However I have come up with some very effective awareness generators that I would be happy to share if you're interested.

I've also had some serendipitous timing. The Huffington Post Book blog has asked me to guest blog about my first agent. You can read about Melanie Mills here - I think you will see why the HuffPo is interested: it's a very bizarre TRUE story. http://bit.ly/rt30ea (I also like to think that they like the writing!)

Now, over a year later after signing the contract with the publisher, HACK will hit the literal and virtual shelves mid-June! Today a Tweeter in India retweeted a promotional video for HACK (http://on.fb.me/KF61aP) to over 600 followers in India. So - watch out Bollywood! Yahoo!

Jeb wrote: "I've had two agents and neither was successful in landing a publisher for my first novel, HACK. Then, 12 years after I wrote the first draft, I was approached by a publisher who wanted to publish H..."

i guess everyone would be interested to hear about your "effective awareness generators".

Thanks so much for all the responses. I published my book The Good Fight through a small publisher in AZ. Unfortunately, sales have been lacking and the small publisher really isn't putting forth an honest to goodness marketing effort. This is causing me some problems because I don't have the freedom of a self-publish yet I don't have the infrastructure of a large publisher. I have a second book coming out in the Fall, but my third manuscript I think I'm going to go a different route on. It would seem that agents still have a role to play, but that only a few that can really achieve our goals are left...?

I have only been learning the ropes of the indie author business since the release of my first novel a couple of weeks ago, but it has been an extreme eye opener in more ways that one. What I have found amazing, are the massive similarities between indie publishing and the music scene. I play in a rock band (have done for many years) and like authors, bands also have to establish themselves in the industry. They are forced to self produce and promote themselves, using much of the same tools as indie authors do, such as Twitter / Facebook etc etc. Bands essentially become their own managers, controlling every aspect of their existence. They gig, create blogs, market themselves, mix with others in their community, sell merchandise, put their tracks on line for people to down load for free... (seeing any similarities here?) Eventually the band will pick up loyal fans, and an audience starts to build. At the same time however, the band has to write new material, and practice practice practice. Doesn't this all sound very similar to what an indie author has to face? It is only once a whole string of gigs has been played , and the number of fans on Facebook equals thousands, that managers begin to prick their ears. Yes some managers are great, others are absolute jokes (trust me) but what the good ones did do was open doors, and introduce you to contacts that would have been otherwise unavailable at the start. They hopefully lift you to the next level. However you have to work hard to generate your own success in the first place, be it with writing or music. You play a bad gig, you get back to the practice room and rehearse some more. You write a bad book, you pour a huge coffee (or something stronger) open your laptop and get writing again. I see agents like managers. They step in once they have a sure fire bet. After all, they are a business too, in it to make a living. The mindset I have with the band, is the same mindset I have adopted with indie publishing. You have to prove yourself first. And whilst proving yourself, you learn about the business, make new friends and contacts and strengthen your craft. To get an agent / manager from the start would be great, but then again you may miss out on the important lessons there are to learn in this business. Knowing how to take criticism, independently promote and market yourself, and juggle it with writing and research, can only give you thicker skin, and nicely prepare you for what you hope will eventually come.

I'd never really thought about getting an agent. I am making some sales myself (more than I expected to be honest) but I'm planning to concentrate on writing for the next couple of years. If all goes to plan I should have a lot more time available then, so I thought that would be a good time to start a full-on marketing push, making use of the extra things I've learnt in the meantime.
One thing I do wonder is if publishers ever check out the indie authors on Amazon etc. They could bypass agents that way.

Paul,
an indie writer if they are extremely successful may show up on a best-seller list for example, then a Big publisher may notice ...( they are not in the business of taking risks,) and then they offer a royalty of 7% on books and 25% on ebooks to the person who did all the work to get there. There are some excellent subsidy deals that give an author 50% on both book and ebook... and they put a professional cover, editing, etc into the book.

How often does that happen (being noticed by a publisher)?

Anyone here on GoodReads have experience of that?

Paul wrote: "How often does that happen (being noticed by a publisher)?

Anyone here on GoodReads have experience of that?"

I'm afraid Amanda Hocking is one of a kind! ;-) No, there are a couple more, but they are exceptions.
I like David's parallel with the music industry, but I don't think agents are like managers. Agents are really needed only if you write screenplays and want to break into Hollywood. If not, submit to editors of big publishing houses, or self-publish a print book and send it to editors, apparently they're less likely to throw away a printed book than a manuscript.
Anybody with a card can be an agent. Writers don't need them anymore. They need IP lawyers to negotiate contracts with publishers, that's all.
Best to all!

I don't care to have an agent because I like having more control over my work. Plus, I chose to go with epublishing, and you really don't need an agent for that. Not yet anyway.

David wrote: "I have only been learning the ropes of the indie author business since the release of my first novel a couple of weeks ago, but it has been an extreme eye opener in more ways that one. What I have ..."

Spot on, David. I've had a very similar experience in the music biz, and it's so cool that it's all opened up and we can make records and books and put them out there! Wish I could just do that all that time - life would be grand, wouldn't it!

Jeb wrote: "David wrote: "I have only been learning the ropes of the indie author business since the release of my first novel a couple of weeks ago, but it has been an extreme eye opener in more ways that one..."

I mean "wouldn't it??"

Certainly would be Jeb, writing books and playing in my band for a living, now that would be the life. :) Just have to keep plugging away at it.

When I wrote my first book, I wasted over a year trying to find and agent. What I learned was that agents are salesmen/women, poor salesmen/women. Unlike a used car salesman an agent wants to make sure he/she can sell your book before they take it on, they want a sure ting.

Personally, I think they will be out of jobs in the near future. I have now self-published nine books and can't imagine why anyone, in this day and age of e-books, would want to go the traditional route and work for someone else.

Jeb wrote: "Jeb wrote: "David wrote"

It IS an absolutely wonderful world of write 'em and self-publish 'em. All the time and energy one spends on legacy publishing is a drain . . . when you could be writing your next eBook.

Another reason to stay well away from agents
http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=6876
and
http://jakonrath.blogspot.it/2012/05/...

Barbara wrote: "Another reason to stay well away from agents
http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=6876
and
http://jakonrath.blogspot.it/2012/05/..."
Thanks for those links, Barbara. Dean Wesley Smith lays it right out in plain English.

Surely the reason for getting an agent is so that one can get published by a publishing house and, thus, be able to sell PROPER BOOKS in SHOPS, not just ebooks? Why hasn't anyone mentioned this? Wouldn't we all love to see our books as print copies, in railway station bookstores, in Waterstones, in libraries, even? I know everyone's saying about the agent taking their cut, but they can't take a cut of something that hasn't been sold, can they? So it's up to them to get it sold. I know that ebooks are the way forward - but there are a hell of a lot of people out there who haven't got Kindles. Yes, the opportunity for self-publishing that we now have is wonderful - without it I wouldn't have all my readers, but if a REPUTABLE, ESTABLISHED agent contacted me and said, I want to take you on and find you a publisher, I wouldn't say no....

I would say no. I still don't understand why anyone who has a choice, and we all do, would go the traditional route. I have one of my self-published book in the library. I don't care to have print copies in a bookstore. My print copies are on lulu.com in large print and a are doin just fine without an agent or publisher. Yeah11

Peggy wrote: "I would say no. I still don't understand why anyone who has a choice, and we all do, would go the traditional route. I have one of my self-published book in the library. I don't care to have pri..."

but it would probably do better if it's also in walmarkt and other shops. to more exposure you get the better it is. is not like you couldn't get a paperback-only deal like john lock and others to get into these shop and to use the ebook version solely for yourself.