Victorians! discussion

The book I have is actually in two separate volumes, so I thought this might be a good place to stop and discuss what we've read so far, and how we think we'd like to see the book conclude, or at least commence.

I actually do not know where this occurs as I am reading it from an ebook version, V.r. If possible could you let me know at what chapter this occurs? Thank you!

It's at the end of Scene four but between the Between the Scenes before five. If that makes sense. I'm just starting four now.

I have just finished part four and I have NO idea where this is going to go. NONE. The introduction of Captain Kirke *groans* is a definite complication to the plot. He has some significance, and as we have, nearly immediately, been introduced to his conflict through his own point of view, you can bet he's of major significance. Is he the hero we've (ok, I've) been waiting for? And how do I feel about that? He's forty. Her father's age. (Reminds me of Little Dorrit but with a spunkier heroine.) And he's a sailor, so he's not even of the same station she was born to, and to which we are hoping she'll return.

I had noted in the earlier chapters that Frank was described as having a feminine beauty. I can't recall the exact words. I had wondered if this was meant to reflect upon his character as well. Knowing Collins, there's no telling just at first. He likes to give false leads. But now, knowing Frank, and seeing that Noel, too, is described similarly, I do think it is meant to reflect a weakness. My feeling before was that manly men are preferred, but I'm always prepared to be proved wrong. The worst thing for a historian (which I'm not except as it becomes necessary) or a historical fiction writer is to be so fixed in their own perceived knowledge, that they can't accept new views. It's history. It's all interpretation at this point. But this point I found particularly interesting considering how much tastes and times seem to have changed. The most recent Great Expectations starred a Pip who might very easily have been an Ambercrombie and Fitch model. He was luscious, but I think Collins would have described him similarly to Frank.

Just a few thoughts I've been pondering through the first part of the book.

I also completed Scene 4 and I wonder the same thing. How is all of this to be resolved?

As to the manliness of the males in this tale, I do agree that they seem well less than manly. They seem to be unable to either in a physical or emotional sense accept their what is believed to have been gender roles. They are weak in nature and have little in the way of sound moral principles in dealing with adversity in their lives. Both seem to be emotionally detached and have little or no loyalty to women that have cared for them. Frank abandons Magdalen and Noel abandons Mrs. L. Say what you want about Mrs L., but she is a strong supporter of Noel and I guess in her own way, she has loved him as a mother loves a son.

Yet, the women, particularly Magdalen and Mrs L. are strong and tenacious. They both exhibit what amounts to a vengeance of a high order. Both seem bent on getting their due. It will be interesting to see how Collins works this all out.

It goes back to the loyalty Noel owes Mrs. L. He may not like her, she may dictate over him, she may be a servant, but she's been in the family's service for decades. You can't just throw her off. It sounds, too, as if she hasn't been paid, really. So...she has even a legal claim against him at this point. A maid, a kitchen servant, these come and go. Hired companions, governesses (in most cases, though certainly not all), housekeepers and lady's maids are pretty much part of the family. He owes her a great deal, even if he does not like her. But part of his not liking her is for the simple fact that he owes her.

I'm still irked at his cheapness over the ring. I'm in the Between the Scenes part now, and I'm so anxious to get back to Magdalen and see how things are going.