Chicks On Lit discussion

Here's the reading schedule for The Sound and the Fury:

First Section - April Seventh, 1928 - discussion May 20th

Second Section - June Second, 1910 - discussion May 27th

Third Section - April Sixth, 1928 - discussion June 3rd

Fourth Section - April Eigth, 1928 - discussion June 10th

I look forward to reading and discussing this book!

Looking forward to May 20th!!!

Oh thank goodness this is broken up. I just saw it as the upcoming book and I have been wanting to read it but I knew there was no way I could do it by the 20th. Perhaps I can keep up with the schedule though. :)

I haven't been on Goodreads in so long and am excited to jump back in with this book. See you May 20th!

This is a great book. I read this book years ago twice. Because of this discussion, I will revisit this book just to see everyone's point of view.

Here is a handy glossary I have been using while reading:
http://www.william-faulkner.net/sound...

I read As I Lay Dying and I don't remember not having a clue as to what the heck I am reading. Not this time. I had to read the spark notes to see if I was even close. I got somethings but others I totally missed. I did read that the first section is very difficult so I am not sure I am to discouraged yet. I hope it will get easier.

I think it might be somewhat because our narrator has issues and it makes it difficult to follow and keep things straight.

I had to read the Sparks Notes as well. They were very helpful.

http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/soundfu...

The first section is being told by Benjy who is severely mentally retarded. He has no concept of time so we are seeing things that are happening as well the memories they evoke for Benjy. I found it very confusing. I think the narrator changes in the other sections so the book should be easier to understand from here on out. I hope so anyway.

Melissa wrote: "I had to read the Sparks Notes as well. They were very helpful.

http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/soundfu...

The first section is being told by Benjy who is severely mentally retarde..."
I think I may as well as I finish up here tonight. I hope it does get easier in the next section, though I figured out what was happening, it was still hard to follow.

I agree, the first section was very difficult to understand. I had to read the synopsis on Wikipedia to understand what I had read.

It is a difficult section to start with. I think a prologue or starting with another narrator's section would have been a bit easier. Can't imagine reading this back in the day as a new novel. I checked sparknotes and wikipedianas well and still have doubts, questions. Glad we are reading and discussing here as a group.

So, who is Miss Quentin? Daughter of?

Caddie's daughter.

On another note, it is sad to see how mental illness and/or disabilities are treated. I'm pretty sure this was common--the belief that Benji was a burden and an object at times.

Ruth wrote: "Caddie's daughter."

That was my guess. My other guess is that something bad happened to Caddy.

It's Faulkner, something bad happens to most everybody at some point. That's my take on it.

True it is confusing but I have not used any outside sources. I figured it was meant to be read from start to finish so that is what I am doing.

I couldn't figure out the Quentin thing either, because it seems like Quentin is a boy (brother of Caddy & Benjy) and then other times it is Miss Quentin. So it does make more sense to know that there are two characters both named Quentin--Benjy's/Caddy's brother and Caddy's daughter. While I picked up on feelings, I had little idea of what was actually going on. I think in a way this writing style is effective as the voice of a mentally handicapped person who apparently could not actually speak or understand much of what was going on around him. As I read I felt sad, frustrated, confused, and lost, which is how I imagine someone like Benjy might have felt. While providing very little understandable information about what is actually taking place, it does convey a feeling of time and place. Is that one of the points of this first section, then? Just to establish that feeling?

I was just looking at the discussion of this book on the Oprah website (apparently her book club read this). I found this question interesting. Anyone want to comment?

Although Benjy is mentally challenged, he is able to recall many conversations and significant moments from his family's past. Discuss some of the events Benjy is remembering. Do you think he is a reliable narrator?


Read more: http://www.oprah.com/oprahsbookclub/T...

I believe he is. At first I wondered, a lot, but as I read the other narrator's stories, I came to view Benjy's version as unvarnished. He doesn't have a perspective. It is what it is. Wish we could have had a Caddy as narrator section.

I think Benjy is a reliable narrator. He sees and hears and repeat, however, he lacks understanding. When reading Benjy's narration we get lots of events and facts but none of Benjy's own perceptions or mis-perceptions. We kind of end up seeing it through our own eyes.

I think Benjy is reliable as far as what he relates. The only problem is that he relates only events that have impacted him personally and therefore surface as memories during his narration. An unreliable narrator may not only manipulate the facts, but may also choose to relate only certain events. Benjy has no capacity to manipulate facts but he does only relate certain events, although not by choice or in an effort to influence the reader. So I agree that we do get a pretty reliable view of what he does relate. We are just missing a lot of pieces. I don't know yet if that makes him unreliable because I haven't finished the other sections.

Faulkner has a lot to say about time. I am referring to many references to clocks and watches in the next section. Back to my spark notes to see if I am even close. I am plugging away on the second section.

Sheila wrote: "I was just looking at the discussion of this book on the Oprah website (apparently her book club read this). I found this question interesting. Anyone want to comment?

Although Benjy is mentally ..."

Benjy is in my opinion an extremely reliable narrator. His remembrances are pure. Think savant...He shares exactly what happened without an agenda. What he shares helps the reader see into the other characters true personality. Benjy is indirectly providing the reader with unadulterated information.

Ok, I have come to the conclusion that I am NOT a fan of "stream of consciousness" narration! LOL

So what does everyone else think of this style of narration, which was featured in this second chapter?

Sheila wrote: "Ok, I have come to the conclusion that I am NOT a fan of "stream of consciousness" narration! LOL

So what does everyone else think of this style of narration, which was featured in this second ch..."

It is very difficult, but once you get the hang of it you can appreciate the effort it took to write...in my opinion James Joyce is even harder to read when he writes using this style of narration.

Cynthia ☮ ❤ ❀ wrote: "It is very difficult, but once you get the hang of it you can appreciate the effort it took to write...in my opinion James Joyce is even harder to read when he writes using this style of narration. "

LOL about James Joyce being even harder! Yes, I completely agree with this because I am also currently reading Ulysses for the Chunky read discussion, and Joyce's stream of consciousness narration goes completely over my head some times. :o)
At least with Faulker, I can get the basic idea of what he is talking about and what is happening in the characters mind. :o)

Rebecca wrote: "Faulkner has a lot to say about time. I am referring to many references to clocks and watches in the next section. Back to my spark notes to see if I am even close. I am plugging away on the second section."

Rebecca, the repeated references to clocks, watches and time were interesting. Did you find anything in Sparksnotes that explained the repeated use of these things?

I'm a week behind. I read the first section over the weekend. It felt like a kalidoscope. Bengy is reliable in so far as he does not interprate his experiences. However, this also means that his memories lack context. The reader has no idea of time sequence, of what belongs to which other picture, of which is of importance and which is less sinificant. Without the ability to give meaning to the events of our lives, we have no picture. Benjy gives us the peces of the gigsaw puzzle, but he can't put them together.

Sheila wrote: "Rebecca wrote: "Faulkner has a lot to say about time. I am referring to many references to clocks and watches in the next section. Back to my spark notes to see if I am even close. I am plugging a..."

According to SparksNotes, "Faulkner emphasizes the importance of time and memory in Quentin’s world through the frequent appearance of clocks and watches. Quentin is effectively trapped in time, obsessed with his past and memories."

"Unlike Benjy, who is oblivious to time, Quentin is so obsessed and haunted by it that he sees suicide as his only escape."

I found a Quentin easier to follow, however, the stream of consciousness writing was a little difficult. Once I got the hang of it, I was ok.

I found the back and forth in time confusing. I would be reading along and, without warning, the narrative would be broken. It would take me several lines to figure out what happened, where I was. And, when we did go back in time, we were not always at the same place. So, the back story was disorienting also. Caddy and Quentin had some sort of relationship and Caddy dumps him? From the previous section, I thought Quentin was much younger than Caddy. Was Faulkner trying to say anything with that Italian immigrant family about foreigners in the US or was he just killing time to show the day advancing? Were we supposed to learn something about Quentin from that section? He has some level of compassion and responsibility as he cares for the little girl, but is pretty resigned to his fate as he pays the court fine.

Quentin is resigned to paying the fine, but he is also very out of touch with his own life. I felt like he was planning his own death, so why care about the fine or keeping his friends waiting, etc.

ia,

Jessica, I think you are right, Quentin is focused on his suicide, so the fine and the rest is inconsequential. But, than, why so much time and attention to a little girl he does not know and who won't speak?

Irene,

I think that is him helping another lost soul. Obviously he feels lost and alone and so he recognizes that in the little girl. Often lonely hearts find one another, this one just happens to be a child. Also, there were issues in his childhood and so he is extra sensitive to the plight of a child.

I think he sees girls, young women as sisters. He's their brother / protector.

That's another good point Ruth. To Quentin the little girl could be someone's sister (and actually is as he finds out later).

I started into the next section and realize that Quentin is Caddy's brother. I thought he was a younger neighbor kid that all grew up together. And, I thought Quentin's despair was that Caddy rejected him for another guy. But, that is wrong. So,is the reason for his death wish sadness that Caddy has been disowned by the family? Does he blame himself for Caddy's fate?

You know how it is when you have an AMAZING childhood and you don't ever ever want it to change? Well, as far as I can tell, Quentin's wasn't all that, but he doesn't want anything to change. He wants Caddy, his baby sister, to remain his baby sister - chaste. But Caddy is looking for love and has sex often. In Quentin's world he considers incest with Caddy more acceptable than her promiscuousness. At least that's what I've got out of it thus far.

OK, so I was not really stupid when I thought there was something sexual between Quentin and Caddy. Wow, this is a messed up family! And, Quentin is older? When I was reading Benjy's section I thought Caddy was the older. But, that section blurred time in such a way that Caddy coming home from school as a teen and Caddy playing in the stream as a little child were side by side, so I could have the relative ages of the figures confused. And, is the mother really sick or depressed or what exactly?

I didn't get that the sense that the mother was actually sick or depressed, just not a good mother and perhaps using illness as an excuse for attention and/or to hide from her life, her children, and all the things she felt were so out of her control. I felt that she either could not or did not want to face and deal with reality. Anybody else feel this way?

I don't think Mother is sick. Shes worried sick all the other dysfunctional folks in her family will garner some attention and she wants to be the center of that bright light.

Irene Quentin is the oldest, Caddy is 2 years younger, Jason 4 years younger than Quentin and Benjy is 6 years younger than Quentin.

Thanks Ruth, where did you find those age relationships? Of the servants around the house, Lester, delcey, etc, are any of them related or r they just working for the same family?

I can't find my notes but Dilsey is married to Roskus. The other characters ~ Versh, Frony, TP and Luster are their children, grandchildren, etc.

Thanks again, Ruth. You are much better at following and making sense of this writing style than I am. I am really struggling to put the fragmented pieces together. Even the emotional content of the voices are not making it through with much clarity. I am getting a very fuzzy picture of what is happening with this family. I understand the skill needed to create this type of book, but I can't say that I enjoy it. How are others liking this book and the writing style?

I kinda like the writing style because it is getting clearer and the pieces are being put together. It is like a mystery or a puzzle and as long as he clears things up, I am in it for the ride.

I don't think the mother is really sick either. She comes across to me like a lot of the swooning Victorian women, a bit dramatic, where a headache will put them in bed for a week.

About the mother's illness, Benjy says he sees her sickness on the handkerchief, and Quentin says something about mother doing something with the handkerchief without dad seeing. At first I thought consumption and the blood is on the hanky, but then with Quentin committing suicide, I thought maybe the mother has some sort of drug/medicine on the hanky and is self-medicating to the point of hurting herself and that is the sickness Benjy sees. I'm sure I am off on some of that, but it was just something that caught my attention as I read.

So, did anyone else think they were losing their mind in this week's reading when Quentin (who was a guy in the last chapter) suddenly became a "she" Quentin, with no explanation right away, in this week's chapter? :o)

I read "she" and "her" with the discusison of Quentin, and literally thought I had totally misread the last chapter! I was flipping pages back and forth, and finally went to the Wikipedia synopisis, to see that this chapter was about Quentin, Caddy's daughter. Sheesh! :o)

I have this half formed memory that it was noted in an earlier post in this thread that there were a girl and a boy Quentin. So, I plopped mentally into that way of thinking as soon as the pronouns came up. But, I am too pressed to reread this thread to find if I dreamed that or if it was here.

Really dislike Jason. Where does such a horrible angry person come from. Nothing prior prepared me for this voice. I thought these were pathetic folks, but generally kind. But, he is extremely angry. I can't blame him completely. I would be ready to throttle Quentin. She needs a bit of discipline. But, I don't understand why he just hangs around being miserable. It is not as if he is trying to protect his inheritance. Who else is in competition for the estate.

I will be off line for a few days. Headed out of town for my job in less than an hour. And, while I am gone, my computer will be visiting the hospital. Hopefully its hospitalization and my travels will match perfectly and I will be back on line on Friday.

Sheila I applaud you. I am sure having a hard time wanting to finish this one. I am not getting it at all but will probably finish just to finish.

Rebecca wrote: "Sheila I applaud you. I am sure having a hard time wanting to finish this one. I am not getting it at all but will probably finish just to finish."

I'm only reading it because my other choice is Ulysses, which is KILLING me. So I'd rather read this than it. LOL I will finish both, eventually too, just to finish them.