Time Travel discussion

Howard wrote: "Once you throw away the big rules, like the Laws of Nature, then you’ve crossed over (in my opinion) into Fantasy. "

Doesn't that describe all time travel to the past?

Howard wrote: "Just as an example, my books have a real machine not a magic box that just does weird stuff & as such it needs power to run & that power must be harnessed, etc. So, it works in the real world, not some Fantasy one."

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Your time machine, like any other, IS a magic box of a sort, with more exposition to increase plausibility for skeptical readers.

While I don't think your silver theory works in the fiction of Looper, I do think it's an interesting time travel premise, sort of my C2 example in reverse. Just as a time traveler might replace his doppelgänger in the future, the traveler (animal, vegetable, or mineral) might replace their doppelgänger in the past. Am I close?

Tej, ever the voice of reason, said: You havent seen the film Howard!

Fair enough.

Scott, good points & I have an answer, but, as Tej has pointed out I haven't seen the flick so I'll hold off for now.

I'm still reading the threads though.

I am thinking we must move the outline to its own thread. I am thinking of starting a Towards a Taxonomy of Time Travel topic.

Thought these were interesting:

Looper 8-Bit Game Trailer:
http://io9.com/5938086/this-looper-8+...
I liked:
JOE 2042 Controls
A = Ready Weapon
B = Fire Weapon
X = Ask Why Future Self Has Appeared
Y = Take a moment to consider the situation (Enters thinking mode)

A commentary track for Looper by writer/director Rian Johnson (about making the movie more than any TT theories, though he does acknowledge the Kid Blue theory, without owning it.):
http://soundcloud.com/rcjohnso/looper...

Interview with Rian Johnson discussing Looper's vision of the future and a little of his Back to the Future commentary at the end.
http://io9.com/5946615/rian-johnson-s...

Brenda wrote: "I am thinking we must move the outline to its own thread. I am thinking of starting a Towards a Taxonomy of Time Travel topic."

Please do, Brenda. The "Just for Fun" section will be the best area for it.

John wrote: "Brenda wrote: "I was postulating that there is no reason why you could not loop it again, multiplying your money...."

Here is something that will really blow your mind. What if the silver that wa..."

That is exactly the same scenario as the compass loop in Lost. spoiler for Lost (view spoiler)[ Richard gives John Locke a compass in present. Locke jumps to 1950s and gives compass to Richard. Richard gives same compass to Locke in future and round and round it goes. The compass has no origin. Furthermore it is aging with every loop, the damn thing should crumble at some stage. The same would go for your new silver theory. (hide spoiler)]

My thoughts on such a paradox is that the writers are trying to be way too clever and as a result gives us nonsense. Its like the illusion waterfall painting where the water flows downwards to the top of itself and so creates an impossible loop. Its fascinating but unreal and nonsensical.

I also have the same thoughts against normal time loops where effects creates the causes to those same effects. But at least they are highly entertaining and more acceptable than the the time travelling object that goes round and round with no origin of production yet is ageing in every loop.

The classic example of this endless loop is " ...All You Zombies" by Robert Heinlein. (There were no zombies in it, btw.)

Scott wrote: "Thought these were interesting:

Looper 8-Bit Game Trailer:
http://io9.com/5938086/this-looper-8+...
I liked:
JOE 2042 Control..."

Ha, I love the game trailer! But surely the A, B, X, Y buttons refer to modern day contollers? Back in the 8 bit days, it was mainly keyboard controls, or Quickshot 2 or Kempston joysticks which were just numbered ;)

I finally saw this movie on the weekend!

Loved it! Really made you think, my head is still processing it. I think the silver is the same silver looped through the boss man which is why they do not want the loopers to keep it, but to exchange for the currency of the day.

What I found was lacking in the movie, was a bit more of an explanation of how society had gotten to where it was.
Another thing I did not really understand was,-What was the point of the telekinesis ability? Just to show where the Rainman had gotten his incredible powers from?

I want to see it again, so I can pick it apart in a bit more detail.

Heather wrote: "What was the point of the telekinesis ability? Just to show where the Rainman had gotten his incredible powers from? "

You might have answered you own question :) I thought was a nice touch though and quite an hilarious one, when young Joe commented that everyone thought the world will have superheroes but floating a coin 2 inches above the palm was about as spectacular as it got. So funny.

We ourselves have fantabulous powers that in any other period would be regarded as magical. Sitting right here at my desk, I can click this keyboard and make anything in the world appear in my mailbox (or on the front step) tomorrow. I don't pay any (visible) money, either. It does have to be shippable from Amazon, of course.

Brenda wrote: "We ourselves have fantabulous powers that in any other period would be regarded as magical. Sitting right here at my desk, I can click this keyboard and make anything in the world appear in my mai..."

...Or whip out that magical pocket device called a smartphone and do the same thing! Its our magic wand. Upset Dumbledore didnt send us all an invite to Hogwarths, now.

Tej:

Computerized hand-held devices are getting smaller.

Voice recognition will only get better.

Wizards use wands & spells.

Are you seeing a connection?

Howard wrote: "Tej:

Computerized hand-held devices are getting smaller.

Voice recognition will only get better.

Wizards use wands & spells.

Are you seeing a connection?"

Ah, yes I think I do, and good call with the voice recognition...spell casting indeed.

Tej wrote: "I thought was a nice touch... when young Joe commented that everyone thought the world will have superheroes but floating a coin 2 inches above the palm was about as spectacular as it got."

I liked this as well. If humans do evolve further (without the aid of technology), it won't be in one generation like X-Men. It will be too subtle to notice until decades later, I think.

In some of the major city transit systems, you can get a smartcard. You load it up from your credit card, and just wave it over the screen at the station to pay your fare. Some enterprising Brit set his smartcard into the head of his Gandalf wand.

I've already seen the officially licensed Harry Potter wand/TV remote with programmable gestures to control your electronics.

So what are you saying? Merlin was nothing more than a time traveling techie with really awesome gadgets and inter-temporal tech support?

Shhhh, John, he doesn't want that to get around.

It might blow his cover.

Scott wrote: "I've already seen the officially licensed Harry Potter wand/TV remote with programmable gestures to control your electronics."

That is a very cool geeky gadget :) Its not actually an official Harry Potter franchise item, though. It was featured on Dragon's Den a couple of years ago and won the highest ever bidding to back its production. Being a bit of a Potter fan myself, it was very tempting to get one but I refrained as its not really the most comfortable way to control my electronics and I have way too much movie geek stuff cluttering my home!

I saw the Looper movie today and I now understand why it's called Looper or perhaps it should have been called Loopy. Apologies to all those who loved it. Whoever came up with the idea! I can't say I enjoyed it much. Too much violence for me. (view spoiler)[The most ridiculous part is when the shooters get old and get sent back with a heap of gold for their young selves to live on for thirty years. When their young selves grow old they too would get sent back again and the same thing would happens over and over. They are then caught in an eternal time loop of shooting themselves. (hide spoiler)]

Tej wrote: "Scott wrote: "I've already seen the officially licensed Harry Potter wand/TV remote with programmable gestures to control your electronics."

That is a very cool geeky gadget :) Its not actually an..."
I think they have a Doctor Who remote thingy now too.

Finally had a chance to see Looper - on DVD - and wrote this generally non-spoiler (except for the end) review http://paullevinson.blogspot.com/2013...

I also just read through the comments here, and agree for the most part. I'd say Looper is a minor classic in what I consider the close-knit subgenre of time travel movies.

Rented the flick a few days ago & liked it as it meets the criteria by which I judge.

The plot is plausible, which is not to say that you couldn’t argue in terms of paradox, for that’s always the case with Time Travel, but here the nuances stated & employed worked for me.

The acting was good & I agree with Paul that the kid stole the show, but Jeff Daniels was also very believable & his understated style, which could easily have gone the other way, was wonderful.

Still, lots of movies have good acting & well thought out plots & what I liked beyond this was the choice of presenting the action in such a gritty fashion & this includes the farm scenes, not just the cityscapes.

Given that the pace, which started slowly then increased, did generally hold up till the end, the narrative held my attention & I can’t say this about many films, Time Travel or not.

I’d have no trouble in recommending it.

I am certainly going to nominate it for a film Nebula Award. Of course we all know that the winner is going to be THE HOBBIT, but this is a mere detail.

Loved Looper. Picked up things on the DVD that I hadn't noticed in the theater. I'd put it up there with the original Total Recall and 5th Element as a watch over and over again sci-fi flick!

Brenda wrote: "I am certainly going to nominate it for a film Nebula Award. Of course we all know that the winner is going to be THE HOBBIT, but this is a mere detail."

Good points both, Brenda.

Brenda wrote: "I am certainly going to nominate it for a film Nebula Award. Of course we all know that the winner is going to be THE HOBBIT, but this is a mere detail."

Hmm, I doubt that. The Hobbit has not got anywhere near as great a critical reception as Lotr, I'd say Looper should be the more likely winner for the a film Nebula Award...wait a minute, I didnt even know there was a Film Nebula Award!

Tej - oh yeah, and there's a long story behind that award ...

I was on the award's Jury for a cycle, and still keep a close eye on truly in-the-genre movies. You should know that the Nebs are voted on by the membership, which means that critical reception is not very important. Fantasies, especially Tolkien, tend to rule; the true SF film has become relatively rare. (What you more often get is fantasy with the trappings of SF; the classic example of this would be STAR WARS. AVATAR is another one of these.) So when a true SF film turns up I try to see it -- usually there is at least one good one a year. INCEPTION was a great one, as was SOURCE CODE; LOOPER is the one for this year. You will note a trend in 'what is reality/time' themes (making them suitable for this topic). It has been long, since we got a true space opera movie.

Thanks for that info and insight, Brenda. Inception and Source Code would have defintiely got my votes for best sci fi for the those years.

I personally loved The Hobbit but it did indeed felt stretched, I rated both films an 8/10 but Looper would get my vote for that best film Nebula award. Though The Hobbit would probably win more in other categories such as production, soundtrack, adapted screenplay and Martin Freeman should get a not for best actor.

I haven't seen the Hobbit yet, but the two - Hobbit and Looper - are about as apples and oranges and you can get.

So true. And I can confidently predict that HOBBIT will win the Hugo. We may hope, however, that the Nebula will be more SF.

Well, Looper will get our two votes, at very least.

I have not seen "Hobbit", but I did see Looper. Cannot say I loved it. For me it was just ok. almost too many twist & details. I love a movie that I can sit back & enjoy that I don't have to figure too many things out. Looper was a real thinker. Hobbit is on my list. I did see, " Time In" which was great! (Also a new release.)

"Time In" was excellent.

I like me Bruce Willis movies. Looper sounds good.