Time Travel discussion

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-env...

"James Webb - regarded as the successor to Hubble - is due to launch in 2018. ... The observatory has been tasked with tracking down the very first luminous objects in the cosmos - groupings of the first generation of stars to burst into life. To do so, Webb will use its infrared detectors to look deeper into space than Hubble, and further back in time - to a period more than 13 billion years ago."

Are there any works of fiction that address time travel by telescopic observation? The only ones that I can think of that come close are Pastwatch(the past being able to be reached by observation only)and
Blind Lake(scientists watching beings on another planet by telescope). Of course, in the case of a telescope, you're looking into the past of another world rather than into the past of our own world. I suppose you'd have to travel far far away from earth in order to actually use a telescope to see the earth's past, wouldn't you?

In Battlefield Earth by L. Ron Hubbard, they teleport a high powered telescope several light years from an alien planet so that the can see what happened when the earth's rebel leader sent a bomb back to that planet. His intent was simply to destroy the teleporter, but he ended up destroying their planet.

John wrote: "In Battlefield Earth by L. Ron Hubbard, they teleport a high powered telescope several light years from an alien planet so that the can see what happened when the earth's rebel leader sent a bomb b..."

Interesting. But that's looking into the future rather than the past. How would that work?

Sorry, I wasn't clear on that. They were looking into the past. The rebel leader is put on trial and the telescope allows them to see the surface of the planet several years in the past because the light from that planet was just reaching the telescope. As a side note, because the rebel leader destroyed the Psyclo race, he inherits their intergalactic debt.

A tangent to the point, I fear.

Last year I restored an old & rusted 12 1/2 inch ASTROLA telescope w/ a tracking equatorial mount.

It took me seven months, by your reckoning.

I had to build a deck w/ a shed just to house it, the tube w/ the mirror is too big to break down every night, or ever, in my opinion.

Now I can just drag it out.

No pin hole view on the past w/ this monster, the image you get, because of the mirror's size, looks like a TV set.

The mirror was in perfect condition by the way, just needed a slow, steady cleaning to remove a vast layer of dust.

The greatest thing is to point it against an area of heavy stars (mostly everywhere with this power) & you see weird stuff, with trails, streaking through quickly but with regularity & it's quite a sight to see.

Before & after restoration pictures are on my facepage & I'd put them up here but don't know how to do so, I'm afraid.

I'm from another time frame, you see & just doing the best I can. Just hit the picture button, or whatever.

I wish I can even see the damn stars in my heavily light polluted London :(

Yes Tej, I understand, I used to live in New York, but now I live out in the middle of nowhere, one reason I rebuilt the ASTROLA.

I live just a few miles north of New York City - literally - and the stars are crystal clear. World (or universe) of difference between the city and suburbs.

Paul, can you see the Milky Way?

Sometimes, I know, you can see stars well enough, but not always the heavy band & this is where I point my scope for the really wild stuff.

I like it that with a scope you are looking back in Time as the light you see is coming towards you from the Past, as John said.

Paul wrote: "I live just a few miles north of New York City - literally - and the stars are crystal clear. World (or universe) of difference between the city and suburbs."

I live out on long island about 50 miles from the city (NYC) and it is ridiculously light-polluted. There are suburbs and then there are suburbs...Gets worse every year. No Milky Way in sight :(

Glynn, I'm not a New Yorker but years ago used to work in Manhattan, yet I lived in Queens (Long Island City), in Astoria, the first stop from the city if you came from the direction of Roosevelt Island.

This was long before I had my scope, but at night I would go up on the roof of my building, trying at first to get a bit of home by seeing the stars.

I couldn't of course, which was something I'd thought might be the case, but I was quite surprised by what I saw, instead.

The lights of Manhattan, too low on the horizon to see, lit up the entire skyline as if the city itself were afire in the distance, quite an unexpected sight.

I went up there a lot; the best effect was always on a foggy night.

Good memories, but I prefer the stars, for as I said, I like looking at the Past.

Love your Profile picture, by the way & your posts which I've seen on other threads.

Howard wrote: "Paul, can you see the Milky Way?"

Yes, not as well as on Cape Cod, but I can see it.

Glynn wrote: I live out on long island about 50 miles from the city (NYC) and it is ridiculously light-polluted. There are suburbs and then there are suburbs...Gets worse every year. No Milky Way in sight :( "

That's unfortunate. I live less than half that distance north of the Bronx, and the stars gleam.

OK, I've been at it for three months and I think I can proudly say I am an amateur astronomer! Emphasis extemely on "amateur". I live in London, the highest light polluted city in UK, nevertheless there are sky objects to see such as Virgin Atlantic, British Airways...oh wait was that a star? I think it was...

To check if that was a star, I bought myself a Celestron 8inch Cassegrain telescope. Powerful, yet compact enough for me to travel to darker spots. Oh man, to see those star clusters, binary stars, Jupiter and its moons...woo! My very first time seeing our own moon up close was breath taking, I felt like I was on one of the Apollo missions orbiting the moon..."Commander Tej to Houston, all systems check, capusule deployment T minus 22 minutes" (Jonsnow is right, I am Walter Mitty). Here is a video I made of my "orbit" of the Moon. Doesnt it look like those Appolo mission videos? Sorry the focus is a bit off. I also had the video in higher resolution but Youtube wont upload my video in HD so resolution is lost. Also keep in mind, I am filming this from London, and atmospheric interference is pretty highly evident with the magnitude I am using. That atmospheric effect kinda gives away the Appolo orbiting illusion! Despite all that, I think its ok for my first time. I am hoping to master astrophotography which I realise is pretty damn difficult and time consuming but an enjoyable endeavour.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3C7Ev...

Here is a first photo of the same moon that I orbitted ;) Again, I have a higher resolution but of course there is a limit in posting on GR. So below it is a piece of it closer up.





Here is my first capture of Jupiter with a little post processing to get rid of noise and extract detail, I have much to learn in getting crisper detailed images with better contrast and colour but I am most happy with my first attempt, its enough to encourage me further.



Due to my sudden addiction, I've now purchased another telescope, a 80mm refractor with a HEQ5 equatorial mount specifically to take deep sky images with my canon dslr. My bank card is not a very happy and is screaming in pain I'll put in a corner for a a few months to let the poor thing simmer down.

So Howard, as yours is bigger than mine (Hope Amy is not reading this), whatever advice you got for me, roll it because the scope of this field is well, cosmic, my little head cant take it all in!

Oh I better mention Space TIme...there, my post is relevant now :)

But I also joined three astronomy societies (Royal Greenwhich being one of them) in which I have attended some really interesting lectures presented by key guest scientists working on major projects. Two days ago a scientist involved with the Planck survey project gave us the lowdown on the breaking recent old light microwave mappings of the universe. The fact that we now have to say the universe is 13.8 billion years old, not 13.7. More matter than first thought, less dark matter but more dark energy. But the talk lead to speculations of what is the universe and delved into the realms of multiverse, this one being just one bubble amongst many bubble universes, emerging and expanding like the gas bubbles inside a pot of boiling water which the lecturer used as an anology...mind you, my head felt exactly like that pot of boiling water.

Then I asked a question "If the earliest light has taken 13.8 billion years (minus 380,000 years) to reach us, how can they be so sure that there is no light further away because there could be star light which is still travelling but hasnt reached us yet". The professor gave me an answer, that made me feel I wasnt thinking 4th dimensionally and I felt like saying "This is heavy, doc". As the professor explained, it was at that point my brain finally evaporated.

So can one of you answer my question?


All right, enough for now, I really need to catch up with the group reads...

Nope, not reading this at all. Not giggling one bit.

Those are impressive shots. I can't believe you can see such detail with such a small scope. How bizarre that something so small can see that far away.

I have to admit that the question that you've asked is also the point where my brain breaks. You'd think that It would be impossible to set a limit based on what we are seeing now. My default brain bandaid for this type of problem is generally to tell myself that a new theory is bound to emerge at some point to explain why the current theory broke my brain.

Tej & Amy, humans conceive by way of stimulus & reaction, it's what we do, how we’re wired.

The different stimuli to which we relate are called dimensions (of reality).

Each is defined differently, but they interact & in the case of TIME, they overlap.

When someone across the street moves towards you, they change their dimension (your perceived reality) in terms of length & height, etc. & as they're moving, speed then becomes involved & now it's a factor, in that the faster (or slower) they go, the less (or more) distance they have left.

Yet, if they just stood there, not altering their space (another separate dimension) & they didn't move towards you, they STILL WOULD PASS THROUGH TIME, it keeps ticking & it overlaps all other dimensions (views of reality).

Or, maybe not.

With great speed (velocity) things to which we relate become distorted (from our point of view) in that they (sunlight, the light of stars, the very past you see with your telescope) begin to pull apart as the defined limit is approached.

This I would presume is the very edge of the limit & how your academics arrive at their terminal point & so postulate ad infinitum.

But take heed Grasshopper (Tej) for you are correct.

Have another drink Grasshopperette (Amy) for Tej is correct.

Suppose that nothing (any of our dimensions) can go faster than the speed of light BUT ALSO that instead of nothing before the big bang there was indeed something, or perhaps a negative something (X, an entity BEYOND our known dimensions).

Well then, this negative thing would be BLASTED before the first energy released by the bang itself, the very edge of which your eggheads now salivate over.

This would explain dark matter, or rather that unknown thing (again, X) that binds AND MUST BE EQUAL TO all known matter, if what they postulate is so, that is.

Yet your guys haven’t come close to explaining this phenomenon (a pretty glaring Duh? in their thought experiment, I would think), but then again, they haven’t read my books, either.

Don’t let it spoil your fun, looks as if you’re well on your way, great pics, no doubt.

So expand your dimensions, you two, for life is the journey.

Tej wrote: 'Here is my first capture of Jupiter'

Not so Tej.

It's an image of Jupiter AND two of her moons.

Back off a bit & you'll see more.

Make focus adjustments as slow as you can.

What lenses do you have?

You go Grasshopper.

I hope, by the by, that you get that American reference,

Fairly impressive photo taken with my new telescope: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-env...

Wow! That is the most colourful Space photo I have ever seen. Now where is the yellow brick road that leads to this land of oz in space?

Tej wrote: "Wow! That is the most colourful Space photo I have ever seen. Now where is the yellow brick road that leads to this land of oz in space?"

Yeah, right? I showed that picture to my 2-year old, and she's been saying ever since, "I want to go to outer space." I'm guessing this is going to trump her desire to go to the moon.

Is anyone watching the stargazing series on the BBC with Brian Cox?

He was explaining how it is possible to travel into the future but we cannot go back to the past.

In the line of books that deal with telescopes as a means of time travel, there is a wonderful children's book called The Great Kettles: A Tale of Time by Dean Morrissey. In the story, Father Time uses the telescope of time to send the time traveling hero back to where he came from. The illustrations are fantastic. http://galleryone.com/Merchant5/merch...
I just recently had a print of this framed. Someday my kids will have something cool to look at on their bedroom wall.

Nathan mentioned 'Someday my kids will have something cool to look at'

That's great, a wonderful idea, but could you not get them a telescope, as well?

Even a cheap one will zoom the Moon & then they wouldn't have to wait to see something cool.

Hey, just saying.

Howard, I actually do have a telescope. So now I have the cool telescope print to go with it. All I need now are the kids. As soon as they start existing we'll be all set!
Right now I would need a telescope of time to watch my future kids enjoying the artwork.

Zoom in close, my friend & maybe you won't have to wait long either.

Slow focus is always best.

Good Luck.

Anna wrote: "Is anyone watching the stargazing series on the BBC with Brian Cox?

He was explaining how it is possible to travel into the future but we cannot go back to the past."

Yes I was! Never miss any of these type of programs and I am also now a budding amateur astronomer myself...though I pathetically didnt take part in the deep space galaxy discovery. Wish I did now, might have had a galaxy called the Spiral Tej! ;)

Prof Brian Cox did a more extensive talk on time travel in An audience with Brian Cox covering the same thing, did you see that?

Anna, we're are in a minority here though, as most of the group are American and they wouldmt have this broadcast...at least I dont think so? Any of you have a clue we're talking about?!?



I forgot we had this thread. I have since improved on my astrophotography skills though still yet to explore the deep space photography, so far I have only cencentrated on our Solar System objects.

Here are is one of Jupiter and it two moons.



And here is my absolute favourite because I am so damn lucky to get this capture while doing solar observations of the Sun spots. My astronomical seniors told me to enter into the Royal Greenwhich Photography of the Year contest which was encouraging of them but I look at the amazing photo's by the pros, I cant even compete but the Dean told me its all about the moment, its symmetry and perspective, its unique and it has a chance to be in one of the many categories and at least as a runner up. So he says. So I will enter it, no harm.

When I look at it more, I find its actually very appropriate for our time travel group because if you notice, the plane appears to "orbit" the sun. Does Star trek IV: The Voyage Home spring to mind with anyone?!? I wonder how far back in time that aeroplane ended up? :)

Anyway, I am proud of what I have captured so far but they are amateur and I have a lot more to learn in post processing and the bigger step of imaging Deep Space objects.





Nathan wrote: "In the line of books that deal with telescopes as a means of time travel, there is a wonderful children's book called The Great Kettles: A Tale of Time by Dean Morrissey. In the stor..."

Love those links!

And glad to know an experienced astronomer, maybe I can get some tips from you and Howard now :) I have an 8" SCT and a 80mm APO refractor. Polar alignment is my biggest learning curve right now so, I just cant seem to hack getting it accurate yet so I can do DSO imaging. Have you done any imaging? My bank account sure is in distress since I started this damn addictive hobby, though.

Yes, I saw the lecture too. Fascinating.

As they link up with astronomers all over the world and certainly US astronomers, I wondered if the programme has been sold to the US yet.

Its unlikely, as it was a live national event for UK viewers exclusively. The global link ups were only to the world wide observatories that responded to the nation's Galaxy findings by the viewers.

But US have their own star scientists such as Professor Kaku and a great series called The Universe.

Tej wrote: "Its unlikely, as it was a live national event for UK viewers exclusively. The global link ups were only to the world wide observatories that responded to the nation's Galaxy findings by the viewer..."

I don't think the Brian Cox series is here in the US as yet. I see that I can stream the episodes on YouTube though. Guess I'll have to start doing that! There IS a new series starting up here in March which is a follow on to the Carl Sagan "Cosmos" series from a few years ago. The new one will be hosted by Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

Tej, your astrophotography is great. I have a small 130mm reflector and I can see Jupiter but not in the detail that you have posted. That shot of the plane going across the sun is amazing also!

Glynn wrote: "Tej wrote: "Its unlikely, as it was a live national event for UK viewers exclusively. The global link ups were only to the world wide observatories that responded to the nation's Galaxy findings b..."

Thanks for the kind words...I will post up my first Galaxy and nebula images soon. You should be able to see the Galilean moons of Jupiter with your 130mm reflector and saturn's rings?

Carl Sagan's Cosmos is still today the most profound television series I would ever see and in all honesty its Carl Sagan's poetic delivery accompanied by Vangelis music that elevates it beyond anything else we had since. It cant be matched for its soulful experience. Tyson, I am sure will host a good series but its just a marketing catch to say its a follow up to Cosmos. Cosmos was Carl Sagan! But I look forward to seeing Tyson's series.

The largest telescope ever in orbit is named for James E. Webb, the 2nd NASA administrator, not Jim Webb, former Virginia Senator & Navy Secretary & here's some follow-ups to Amy's first post:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmguh...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_E....

Howard wrote: "The largest telescope ever in orbit is named for James E. Webb, the 2nd NASA administrator, not Jim Webb, former Virginia Senator & Navy Secretary & here's some follow-ups to Amy's first post:

htt..."

The JWST isn't in orbit yet, but we're getting there (planned launch is in 2018)! Great video Howard... and Tej, I can see the 4 big moons of Jupiter and the stripes and the big red spot (if I look sideways), and also I can see the rings of Saturn. I also can see some of the galaxies and nebulae pretty well, especially with filters...

Glynn, yes the launch is still in the Future, but I saw this link on the tube of you & just wanted to pass it on.

Having seen Interstellar yesterday (go watch it, you wont regret it), I thought I update this with my latest time travel endeavours with my telescope :)

I have now time travelled 2.5 millions years back in time with my telescope. So far my imaging abilities were limited to traveling for only under 2 hours back in time which basically covers our solar system up to Saturn.

Then last month, I suddenly leapt 2.5 million years back in time as these ancient light photons ended their epic journey on my dslr camera sensors...and my eyeballs as I was in very dark skies in Wales, I could actually see this majestic object with my naked eye while I was simultaneously imaging it. It is of course the great Andromeda Galaxy (M31) as it was 2.5 million years ago and that's just our nearest galaxy. This will collide with our Milky Way in 4 billion years. (there is also another little galaxy in the photo above right of Andromeda, M32 and one bulging satellite galaxy, the bright spherical object near the bottom edge of Andromeda, thats M110)



If you interested in the rest of my astrophotography endeavours, here are my best efforts so far.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/1680646...

I do love this hobby so much, its humbling yet awe inducing.

If you live in dark skies, look up at the Milky Way, to the right of it, a handspan away, you will just about see a fuzzy patch. Now think what you are seeing is Andromeda, the only galaxy you can see with the naked eye and the only object in the naked eye view of the whole sky that it outside our galaxy. Basically, every other white dot you see in the sky is practically in out backyard in comparison. With a good pair of binoculars you will Andromeda span out at least 2 to 3 times the size of the moon (perception wise). It actually spans 6 times the diameter of the moon. The reason we cannot see it as such without telescopi lens is because the light from it is very diffused due to its distance from us. Go enjoy those dark skies when you get a chance.

For those who live in the Southern Hemisphere such as in Australia, you have the Megallanic clouds to enjoy which satellite galaxies outside our own galaxy.

Beautiful. I now live in a darker area than I used to and a lower latitude so on clear nights I can see a bit more. Still kind of light polluted around here though. Still, Andromeda is nice and visible. Thanks for sharing your excellent photos!

Oh well done Glynn, good for you, I'm envious! If I ever have to move outside London, my primary criteria will be a location with reasonable dark skies, I'll even live in a shack, I dont care, I want to see stars!

Do take some Milky Way photos if you can.

Amazing shots, Tej.

Thanks for the kind comments, guys.


Paul wrote: "wow Tej thats a fantastic piece of photography! (so too are those on the link!) did you use prime focus? and if I can ask...what scope do you use?

I should think that with M31 you're not just tra..."


Hi Paul, yes indeed, prime focal using an 80mm APO refractor as the lens on my Canon DSLR 650D. On my flickr gallery, I give a full descriptive equipment list on each of my photos.

I have three telescopes. An 8" Schmidt Cassegrain Celestron Nexstar 8SE, an 80mm Sky watcher Equinox APO refractor and a Coronado PST Solarscope (specially just for solar viewing). Each one serves their different purposes. For instance I use the 8" for planetary observing/imaging and the refractor for deep space.

If you are keen to get yourself a scope or dabble in astrophotography, I'll be happy to explain more :)

Tej!!

Nice! I love me some space...not sure I have the patience to photograph in such darkness...the images are amazing.

Well, with the new Star Wars film out, I thought I go even further back in time to galaxies far far away with my trusty photon light operated time machine (ie my Canon camera mounted telescope!).

I've never gone this far back and of all the celestial wonders of the seeable universe, this has become my favourite. It is called the Bode's Nebula but it is actually two very contrasting galaxies that are 12 million light years away. The reason I love it is because you can see both of these galaxies with your own eyes at the same time through one eyepiece on a reasonably powerful telescope from 6 inch aperture onwards in dark skies. Its even more lovely than andromeda because of the lower galaxy's classical spiral disk. The other one in the top corner is called the Cigar galaxy and you can probably see why (it appears edge on but its not a spiral disk, it has an explosive midsection due to collisions). Astronomy has taken up much of my time, hence my lack of book reading contributions but I hope some of my actual telescopic time travelling make up just a little bit? (can click to see it bigger)

Beautiful