The Sword and Laser discussion

When I say let down, I don't mean by the lack of conclusion. I expected that, and bought the sequel with anticipation. I was really enjoying Hyperion, was very much looking forward to the way the story would develop, and knew (or thought I knew) that I would certainly want more. And then came that ending.

When I first started reading the book, I was intrigued by two things: firstly, by the character of the Consul. There was something mysterious about him, and what really got me was why he had decided to return to Hyperion. Perhaps I had misread the beginning (I haven't re-read since, so it's possible), but I remember thinking he had adamantly refused to go to Hyperion, seeming to be filled with a great sense of dread. When, in the next chapter, he was already on his way, I was desperate to know what had made him change his mind; why was he returning to the place which filled him with such dread? As the stories were told, many containing horrifying events which occurred on Hyperion, my anticipation increased. What could the consul have to tell that could possibly be worse than this? I wonder if I'm the only person who felt this way.

The second thing which gripped me was the mention of a spy among the group. Each time the tales were told, I looked for clues. Who would the traitor be? It gave an interesting edge to each of the stories, making me wonder and question their every word.

And so, in the end, when no explanation for the Consuls return to Hyperion was offered, when the story seemed devoid of any particularly shocking or horrific events, when he was revealed to be the spy all along without any lead up or suspense or clues, just a simple, unasked for admission, I couldn't help but feel cheated. Perhaps I misunderstood something? Then suddenly, these characters that hardly seemed to like each other are suddenly hugging and holding hands and singing songs...

A definite let down. I really hope the next book will make me love it again, and make up for this disappointment.

Did anyone else feel like this?

Just finished the book and feel totally cheated by the ending. DS manages to make us care about the characters then drops the whole story like a rock. I guess it was not meant to be a standalone book, but still, I expected some sort of ending of this story and transition to the next book.

Maybe I'm in the minority but I didn't feel let down by the ending. I think a lot of people don't like the fact that the characters were all singing "The Wizard of Oz" off into the sunset, but I mean heck they were all going there to die-- remember they were going to off the Consul but decided, what's a few hours more or less? Plus I feel like the fact that it's a popular song is what has most people upset, if it was some made up verse nobody would have a problem with it, I think.

Cattfish wrote: "Maybe I'm in the minority but I didn't feel let down by the ending. I think a lot of people don't like the fact that the characters were all singing "The Wizard of Oz" off into the sunset, but I m..."

I suppose you may have a point with the song choice. Perhaps if it had been some kind of sombre hymn or something, it would have felt less out of place.

As I said though, for me Hyperion fell down in the Consul's tale, and after that, the silly singing was just an extra irritation.

I don't think the Hyperion oder Fall of Hyperion Endings were bad. Especially the Fall of Hyperion Ending was actually quite good.
Endymion and Rise of Endymion were different.
(view spoiler)[
Then I set out to read Endymion.
The ending ofRise of Endymion was not only puzzling but also quite despressing as I had really hoped for a good ending.
(hide spoiler)]
Well, maybe someday I'll read another book by Dan Simmons.

I loved the ending - I thought the 'Ego te absolvo' scene was a great emotional climax and honed in specifically on what this book was about (People's stories).

Whilst I can understand why some people would be let down by the ending, Dan S has stated himself that Hyperion and Fall of Hyperion were split due to the "realities of publishing" but are mutually dependent (though you can buy them in the one cover of the Hyperion Omnibus now).

It's understandable people might feel it was completely cut short and some (many?) details still missing... It's only half the story. I had a book club last month around this book - but we chose the Hyperion Omnibus to ensure people weren't left hanging before we got together to discuss it.

I recommend reading The Fall of Hyperion straight afterwards, stopping at the end of Hyperion makes as little sense as stopping half way through any story.

Remie, I think were the events to happen half way through one book, I'd still at least pause in disappointment at this point. As I said, it wasn't the lack of continuation which threw me (I'd expected that, and bought the Fall of Hyperion ready to carry on).

I guess what I really should have asked was 'did the story of the Consul meet your expectations?' In my case, it absolutely did not. I mean, in the prologue, I'm sure it referenced the Shrikes red eyes, but in the Consul's story, there was no mention that he had even met a Shrike.

Also, the whole story seemed suddenly rushed after the recording, the Consul's own part in the tale taking little space. Since one book split into two, does anyone know whether or not there was some rushed writing to attempt more of an ending following the publisher's decision, or was it literally just chopped in half? To me, it feels like the former was attempted, but performed badly.

*By the way, I don't mean this to suggest I didn't like the book. I loved it so much up until the end, and was so excited to get to the Consul's tale, which is why I felt so let down.

So it was something like Blackout and All Clear where they just chopped it down the middle I think

The consuls story was previously written as "Remembering Siri" which was one of DS's short stories that motivated him to go on to write Hyperion. That may partly be to blame why the consuls part seems sort of tacked on at the end. On my first read through, I agreed with you that the consul's story was a bit of a disappointment.

Whilst I can't go into why my opinion changed second time around, I guess it still stands that the consuls motives are really not very clearly explained in the first book. I don't personally consider it weak though any more, looking back from a different perspective, but I can still see where you are coming from feeling unfulfilled by his story at this point. I know I felt the same initially.

Good to know, Remie, thanks.

I concur with the posts that explain the ending as being half of the story. It's all wrapped up in the 2nd half The Fall of Hyperion.

The Hyperion Cantos are two of my favorite books, but I agree with people that the Consul's tale is anticlimactic and doesn't pack the punch you expect from the final story in the sequence. It has echoes of some of the earlier stories (environmental destruction on Maui-Covenant and Old Earth, time-debt relationships for Siri and Kassad, etc) and doesn't introduce anything new except the brief description of life in an Ouster Swarm. I think Simmons made a mistake with the muted pastoral tone he uses here - even though it's appropriate to Siri's story, you miss having a big "HOLY SHIT!" moment when the Consul reveals that he's the Ouster agent because it's done so quietly.

I almost lemmed the book at a couple of points but held on hoping for a killer finish that would, at least, make me look forward to book two in the Cantos because I did like the book in parts. But, the whole thing fell apart in the end. A big complaint I had with the book was the use of a large amount of filler, passages that had no relationship to the story, and the Consul's story was a example. To me the whole book seemed like a publishers market tool so they could sell two books not one but in that, they failed in the end.

I'm not sure I want to wade through The Fall of Hyperion, which from the reviews, has no better ending than Hyperion. Some readers, suggest you read The Fall of Hyperion first then Hyperion, makes for a better reading experience; but I have already been burned.

Worst Ending Ever! The Wizard of Oz bit falls flat on its face. Simmons is referencing something that is so specific in its visual and audio aspects that his text can't capture it in any real way. And his hedging around writing the exact phrase in the text comes off as overly precious.

That ending made me mad. I was paging through the author bio and front cover to see if there was another to follow. Boo.

Valentin wrote: "I don't think the Hyperion oder Fall of Hyperion Endings were bad. Especially the Fall of Hyperion Ending was actually quite good.
Endymion and Rise of Endymion were different.

Then I set out to ..."

Really. I thought the ending of Rise of Endymion was absolutely brilliant and emotionally satisfying. (view spoiler)[ I'd correctly guessed earlier in the book around the time that Raul finds out about Aenea having a baby that he'd be the father thanks to some sort of time travel thing but it was still great to read. (hide spoiler)]

This series as a whole is by far my favorite series of all time in any genre.

Overall, I loved Hyperion, and will definately pick up Fall of Hyperion to get the full story, but I do feel the Consul's tale was anticlimatic. In my opinion, every story added on to the next, bringing more information about the world, the war, the Shrike along with each character. It also felt like every story resonated with me more and more on an emotional level.

It started off with Dure's journals which were from the POV of a scientist, and as a result were a little detatched. Then you get to Sol's tale, and it is all emotion and tragedy. I loved Remembering Siri, but when the Consul started his story, and was reavealed as the traitor, I was really confused as to what happened. The Consul was the only character whose story I just didn't care about.

For me, the ending felt rushed. Not just like it would be continued which I expected, but like the last 5 pages should have been 20.

New vocabulary term for the condition when an author utterly violates Chekov's gun by hinting that the Big Bad Villain will finally make an appearance, then ditches the reader short of payoff:

Shrike psych.

New vocabulary term for the condition when an author utterly violates Chekhov's gun by hinting that the Big Bad Villain will finally make an appearance, then ditches the reader short of payoff:

Shrike psych.

Marz wrote: For me, the ending felt rushed. Not just like it would be continued which I expected, but like the last 5 pages should have been 20.

Its not that it was rushed, its just that he originally wrote the series as one long novel and this made the best break point once the publisher, not Simmons, decided to split it into two books.

If you go on to Fall of Hyperion you'll quickly understand why it was a good break point. The tales, except the Templars were done and the Templars tale won't come until book four via means that would be extremely spoilerish to discuss. The narrative POV changes signicantly at this point for much of the book to a sort of new character but not new (you'll understand within the first few pages). I'll put the reason here in spoil text but its an extremely minor spoiler as you do literally find this all out in the first few pages of the second book. (view spoiler)[ A new Keats cybrid was created by the Core and its got some sort of connection to the original which is now living in Brawne's head which allows the new Cybrid to "dream" whats happening to the Pilgrims. So a lot of what happens is from the new Keat's point of view and interprations. (hide spoiler)] Anyway, breaking it anywhere else wouldn't have made near as much sense.

Rik wrote: "Marz wrote: For me, the ending felt rushed. Not just like it would be continued which I expected, but like the last 5 pages should have been 20.

Its not that it was rushed, its just that he origi..."

If you were going to split the book, this is the only place you could really do it. The style ie (frame) does not continue into the second half and book 2 becomes more plot oriented. It is a still a little weird as it appears the book is "top heavy" in character development with the first half pretty much focused on the backstories - but it doesn't feel that way once you read the next book and then the "payoff" continues to roll into the remaining two books.

The thing with the Hyperion Cantos (all 4 books) is that, in my humble opinion, none of the books can be fairly reviewed as stand alone works. I will admit that when I read Hyperion I was a little upset with the ending. Having said that it left me wanting more. When I finished it I was going to write a review but decided against it. I wanted to wait until I read the other three before offering an opinion. That opinion is in my review of Rise of Endymion. In a sentence, I feel that, taken as a whole, the Cantos is some of the best science fiction I've read since Frank Herbert's Dune Chronicles.

I actually loved the ending. Simmons brings in literary references from all over the place, so referencing the Wizard of Oz did not seem odd at all to me. It made me laugh and made for a very fun ending, making me want to dive into the next book right away.

I also liked Siri's story very much, but the part that actually concerned the Consul did seem rushed and him being a spy wasn't that big of deal.

Alex wrote: "referencing the Wizard of Oz did not seem odd at all to me."

Dan Simmons gets another Wizard of Oz song into The Fall of Hyperion.
Not really too spoilery but (view spoiler)[One of the characters plays " Somewhere Over the Rainbow" on an instrument and teaches the others with him the words. (hide spoiler)]

I actually really liked the ending of this.

I felt that the Consul's tale added a depth and humanity to his character which was sorely lacking in the prologue and first chapter of the book. It really set up his reason for travelling to Hyperion on the pilgrimmage.

I think the use of "We're Off to See the Wizard" was an inspired choice. Much like Dorothy, the tin man, the cowardly lion and the scarecrow, each of the pilgrims are going to seek something from the Shrike. Plus the visual image of the illumiated time tombs with the yellow sand and the blue sky above is remarkably similar to the image in the film of the Emerald City and the yellow brick road.

I'm looking forward to diving into The Fall of Hyperion.

I agree, the ending left me wanting... without a conclusion to the pilgrimage it feels like just a collection of short stories based on a common theme. Although I liked the stories, I am not sure if I am going to continue with the rest of the Cantos, and I don't feel that Hyperion stands on it's own as a novel.

I think in order to have been "let down", I'd have to have been "uplifted" at some point prior. </sneakydig>

Pfft. I just finished the audio book and I knew it was a cliffhanger from the show but I was hoping for at least some conclusion. The only ending we got was that they all got done with their stories.

Wasn't let-down or disappointed by the end, but I do agree the tone was off.

Previous discussions of the "ending" being a cliffhanger had prepared me for that fact, so that wasn't an issue.

But I agree that bonding after the Consul's confession -- the apparent instant acceptance of Consul as triple-agent spy, the hugging - seemed a off, or at least, not completely earned through what we'd seen of the Pilgrims' interactions thus far.

On one hand, it sort of makes sense because each of the characters has reasons to be at least be very ambivalent towards the Hegemony, and now they're at the point of facing, together, likely death by Shrike or by Ouster tactical strike. On the other hand, Simmons really didn't do any work to show the transition between the Pilgrims mostly being mistrusting of each other and squabbling, and then holding hands to go off to meet the Shrike.

For me, this was one of the few time Simmons mishandled tone in Hyperion, but I'm still impressed enough by the individual stories, their interlocking meanings, and the mysteries of the Shrike to continue with Fall of Hyperion.

Jlawrence, I agree with almost everything you just said. I think I felt so disappointed BECAUSE I loved the rest of the book so much, but the tone was off, just as you describe it. I think there was a suggestion of the groups attitude towards each other softening after Sol's story, but not so much that the hugging and sudden acceptance of each other felt earned.

I've more or less 'got over' the ending now though, and have just began The Fall of Hyperion, which so far has me interested. We'll see.

I actually rather enjoyed the ending, singing and all. I do plan to go on to The Fall of Hyperion because the setting really intrigues me, but even if this were a stand alone book I would be satisfied with the ending.

While I can understand why some people would be let down by the ending, I actually enjoyed it. It left the story at a point where I just kind of sat there going "But what's going to happen?!" (I haven't bought Fall yet). It's a great way to end if you want your readers to buy the next book. If this were a stand-alone I'd be pretty upset, but as there's a continuation I think it's fantastic.

As for the complains about the song choice at the end. I think it's wonderful that they're singing "Wonderful Wizard of Oz". While it's popular to us the readers, to the characters it's some obscure, ancient song that doesn't mean anything to them. It's perfectly absurd that they're all but skipping to their deaths singing such a cheery song. I love it.

I've got to hit the bookstore soon and pick up Fall of Hyperion so I can find out what happens to these people that I come to like (if not love) :)

Just finished The Fall of Hyperion. I guess my feeling after both books is : eh? They were ok, but not enough to get a "wow" out of me.

Yeah, I admit that I was a little let down. The book really built up well and the individual tales did a neat job of describing the depth of a world in a round-about way. When the story just dropped, I felt a little cheated and it felt like a low move to make me buy the next book. It feels like only 3/4 of the story.

EDIT: Just realized that this was split b/c of the size of the overall novel. That is redeeming even though I still don't have to like the location of the split. You don't expect me to be reasonable, do you? :)

Nathan wrote: "That is redeeming even though I still don't have to like the location of the split. You don't expect me to be reasonable, do you? :) "

lol, oh no, heaven forbid! :P

That ending was weird (and not in a good way!). I don’t have problem not the lack of closure, I was kind expecting that, but all the hugging, and crying and singing… To me felt out of place and very contrived.

Meh, I knew that it was a duology when I bought it back in the day (Pre-Endymion publication) , so I was not shocked by the "Wizard of OZ" ending. Reminiscent of the surreal scene of the troops whistling the Mickey Mouse song at the end of Platoon. I think it was meant as a wink and a nod to the reader that there is more to come in the next volume for our merry band of pilgrams.

The Wizard of Oz ending wasn't that big a deal to me as I was already overlooking the vast amounts of references to works that would be meaningful in todays culture but can't see would be familiar in the Hyperion/World Web information overload psyche. But Simmons does it so unashamedly that he gets away with it. Ironically, its the fact that the Wizard of Oz would not be so familiar to our characters that makes it sound LESS corny. It would be corny if the setting was 21st century Earth.

Kind of funny how some are making a big deal over the Wizard of Oz ending because the whole series has Oz references.

Lion and Tigers and Bears will become an important symbolism later in the series to represent what the Core and others fear.

If the Wizard of Oz thing comes into the books strongly later, then we are making 'a big deal' of it now because it's the first time we've come across it! :P I'm not very far in the second book, and some are not reading it at all. If it was reference earlier, then I didn't notice - certainly it wasn't quite as overt.

For me, the song wasn't the worst part of the ending; it was more like the rotting cherry on the stale cup-cake ending of unearned hugging after a let-down of a final tale with annoyingly low key reveals. :)

That metaphor was harder to follow than the book.

Mike wrote: "That metaphor was harder to follow than the book."

Mine? Really? It makes perfect sense in my brain. Then again, most things I think up do. Tra la la! :P

Well, sometimes if something good happens during an already wonderful day, people call it 'the cherry on top', but this is a bad thing coming after a pretty bad chapter (in my opinion) so 'rotting' cherry and 'stale' cup-cake. See? My brain world is perfectly logical........sometimes. :P

Matheus wrote: "That ending was weird (and not in a good way!). I don’t have problem not the lack of closure, I was kind expecting that, but all the hugging, and crying and singing… To me felt out of place and ver..."

You know it's funny but I'm one of the people who didn't feel that this was contrived. I personally interpreted it as a bunch of honest.y really scared people trying to bluster their courage and everyone else's courage by singing a really silly old song, which no one understands anymore. It was out of place because they were trying not think about where they were going. It seemed a very human moment to me.

Horrible book. I had a really hard time getting into it. The scholar's story was the only one I really loved. And, then after finally investing in the characters there's nothing. The ending sucked. I really don't plan on investing any more time on this story and won't read the subsequent books.