The Mystery, Crime, and Thriller Group discussion

This is just a question from a curiosity standpoint. I have no problem reading new/self-published mystery authors, but why do most of the books (at least the ones I've come across) have to do with drug dealers, ex-military protagonists, (they've always been in Iran or Afghanistan and still remember), or gory serial killers? (You can write about serial killers without giving the details). Honestly, this is why I prefer 'cozy' mysteries. At least the murder motives vary. It appears that in all the new books, these are the main topics, and you can only read so many of them before it gets old. Any thoughts on this?

JoAnne-

Part of the answer might be that those themes/devices have worked for other authors in the past (although it was probably the writer's talent, not those themes/devices) that have made them work.

But there are plenty of new/indie authors who explore themes and characters that are quite different but yet aren't cozies. My detective series, for instance, consists of a troubled middle-aged female detective and a young, untroubled LDS male detective, with not a single drug dealer, veteran, or serial killer in sight. We're out here, looking for readers who don't care for the standard fare. Hope you find us.

I will look, definitely. I must admit that a lot of the books are free (for a time) from Amazon, and as I browse, I notice too many of them with the same themes, and I really, really like mysteries. You're probably right that a lot of these have worked for well-established authors, and you have to start somewhere, but I believe that the place to start is something different than from what everyone else is writing. Again, only my opinion.

Maybe it's for the "shock value", which the authors think will create buzz?

That may be the intent, Nathan, but if they're just doing what many others before them have done, that's not the result.

I haven't noticed a preponderance of vets in the mysteries I read, but you're right about drug dealers and serial killers. I discovered a really good indie mystery author recently named Wendy Cartmell; you might want to give her books a try.

JoAnne wrote: "why do most of the books (at least the ones I've come across) have to do with drug dealers, ex-military protagonists, (they've always been in Iran or Afghanistan and still remember), or gory serial killers?"

I think in part this is because these are themes that have worked for successful authors/series.

I see the trend myself, also the trend for 'conflicted' police officer/detective main characters ... what? they have to be emotionally/mentally damaged because of their job? I've gotten so tired of this one I will often put a book down by the time the second detective has some kind of a melt-down.

I don't even remember the name of the book/series now but recently I read a couple of books where the main characters were both 'damaged' and then they got tangled up into a personal relationship that added more conflict to their jobs. No ... thank you, I'll go elsewhere even if there were things I liked.

I agree. I just read the blurb of a book where the female officer was raped/tortured for months, 'still has nightmares' and yet has no problem during the day looking for serial killers. Really? No thank you. I'd like to think people can write a good book without going to these types of characters.

I suspect some of my dislike for this kind of 'conflicted' and damaged police/detective character is because of my background. I was a police dispatcher for a number of years and was married to a police officer as well. I know quite a few police officers and someone as 'damaged' as the characters in some of the books simply would not be allowed to continue as police officers. Wouldn't happen ... and because of my view of police officers in general my 'suspension of belief' doesn't quite extend to cover that.

I know. Most of my relatives growing up were policemen. We would have known if something was wrong. You have to wonder what kind of research these people do. I guess if they like a certain type of book, (such as all those by John Grisham), then that's the type of book they want. But Mr. Grisham does his homework, that's why his attorneys are always so believable.

JoAnne wrote: "I know. Most of my relatives growing up were policemen. We would have known if something was wrong. You have to wonder what kind of research these people do. "

That is one reason I like the Craig Johnson "Longmier" series so well ... I'd swear I've worked with some of the county sheriff's department people in his gooks. He has both the law enforcement and the local culture and mindset down accurately.

I agree w/each poster here in that these themes are a bit played-out. Tired, if you will.

Huge fan here of John Grisham (he's from my hometown!) and his books work because of the tedious thought and effort placed into each work. They are believable stories because of his legal background.

I for one, am tired of the same stereotypes and scenarios. Not too crazy about over-reaching themes such as which mastermind/terrorist is trying to take over/blow up the world, and would like to see a return in thrillers to old fashioned good dialogue and character development.


Why does there have to always be a cop/ex-soldier with a drinking problem/drug addiction/ptsd be the ones on the case? I totally agree w/Sharon in that those individuals would possibly be the last ones put on an important case and imho, probably found not fit for duty.

It's time for new plots. New character-driven novels and some emotion. As a writer, I know one centerpiece of my work is research. You gotta do the work, and I also draw on my years of working in the medical field (I'm a nuclear medicine technologist. Almost 20 yrs under my belt!) to add in a different twist. And as a female, I also want to see more women write thrillers!

Joey wrote: "Why does there have to always be a cop/ex-soldier with a drinking problem/drug addiction/ptsd be the ones on the case? I totally agree w/Sharon in that those individuals would possibly be the last ones put on an important case and imho, probably found not fit for duty."

I'm not a writer myself, so perhaps don't understand the issues involved but I truly do not understand why a reasonably normal, competent person cannot be written to be as interesting as one who is 'damaged'. Makes no sense to me.

I agree with all the posts. The "damaged" or alcoholic protagonist is a poor substitute for putting ordinary people into extraordinary circumstances and seeing how it changes them. I think this is why most series fall apart after awhile - because the protagonist by necessity tends to start in the same place for each book. They're still fighting the extra drink, they're still having the same relationship problems... I know many readers become attached to a particular character and want to see them again. But how much more interesting to be along for the ride as they grow and evolve?

As an ex-prosecutor, I've seen many damaged souls in this world. But the stories can be new and fresh. I try to bring that to my books.

Exactly! Again, agree with Sharon and also agree with Robin, in that everyday characters can become extraordinary with the right set of circumstances artfully placed before them by the writer.

Another thing that has become all too common it seems is that you can't have a main female character unless she either has children, gets pregnant or is in a custody battle with her ex. Seems there are very few female characters that manage a reasonable life as a police officer or detective with husband and children without pages of angst over how she's not being a good mother. It's getting bad enough that more often than not, the first multi-page rant over children and I close the book.

My daughter was a teenager when I worked as a police dispatcher. Were there problems? Yes. Did I worry myself into ulcers about whether I was a good mother? No.

My daughter was not pleased with my job, smallish town and *my* cops (and the sheriff's deputies if she went outside of town) knew exactly where she was, who she was with and what she was doing. The last time, my shift Sergeant went to the house where she was partying and brought her down to the station, where she sat until my shift was over. Was she horrified and embarrassed? Yes. Did she do it again? Not to my knowledge.

Teens? I understand that completely. My son right now is 13, and I've been happily remarried for several years now, but before that I was a single mom (divorced) and raised my son without anything but the usual stressors.

Held down a very stable and good job, and in the course of life as we know it, somehow as a single mom managed to become state pres. of my medical society, and didn't get terribly angst-ridden.

Imho, there can be female mc in thrillers/suspense novels who are good moms. In fact my mc in the manuscript I'm soon to query is a woman who is a good mom.

Again, it's a tired cliche that all single moms or working moms in novels must be stressed or must be under some sort of investigation for ??? (you insert the variable here).

As women we've come too far to accept this silly notion. I like my female mc's to be strong, able, and smart, but not forget she's a woman, and to also have a moral compass. Maybe it's because of what I lived through, but those are my thoughts. We are not cliches.

I love love love what the shift Sergeant did when they found out your daughter was partying! Yes, it was funny bringing her in and making her sit there, but I do believe it sounds as if she learned her lesson. Quite positive my 13 yo son will test my resolution in the years to come.

Most of my favorite series have main characters, male or female, that are not damaged or traumatized by past events. Some have families/children and there are issues mentioned in passing, but it doesn't overwhelm the character or the storyline.

One of my favorite mystery authors, John Sandford, managed the 'aging' of his "Prey" series character very well, going from single city police detective with girlfriends to state level supervisory job with wife, son, adopted daughter. The character is more interesting to me now, not less and definitely not damaged or traumatized.

Agree with you too, and I also like to see the evolution of a character too. Sometimes I also want to see a mc in a less-than-ideal situation turn it all around.

Why can't that character who has a drinking problem quit and become more than they were before the bottle? Why can't that detective who's married and a mom with four find a way to balance her stressful life AND yet still crack the case? It can be done, but the mc must at the same time remain compelling.

I just don't think enough authors really look into the human psyche deep enough when constructing their mc. They must must be believable. You can't skip the research.

Getting off soapbox now. Just got home from work and am exhausted! Soon off to write. Revisions are underway and soon to be querying my ms.

I think the business of damaged protagonists goes back to the beginning -- let's say Max Carrados, the blind detective, for example. We are meant to read such a detective as a hero for overcoming his limitations and solving the crime -- except that now it has become a cliche and the point is lost. A really annoying aspect of this is the use of womanhood as a disablement. This also goes way back -- women are incapacitated as detectives because they are physically weak and also non-rational. Maybe "annoying" is an inadequate word for this. PD James An Unsuitable Job For A Woman did not free herself of this, and few authors since have done better. There is also a racist pitfall here, one reason we celebrate Hillerman's stories for so emphatically not falling into it.

Robin wrote: "The "damaged" or alcoholic protagonist is a poor substitute for putting ordinary people into extraordinary circumstances and seeing how it changes them. I think this is why most series fall apart after awhile - because the protagonist by necessity tends to start in the same place for each book."

Certainly true. But it makes me think of a series like Martin Beck where things actually get worse. Are there other series which work this way? I can't come up with one.

Looking for a good mystery from a Hungarian author hopefully involving Budapest?

Joey wrote: "Teens? I understand that completely. My son right now is 13, and I've been happily remarried for several years now, but before that I was a single mom (divorced) and raised my son without anythin..."

But being a good mom does not create conflict. And without conflict there is no drama. And drama sells.

I started my manuscript with a pregnant college student solving crime. But I finally had to rework the entire plot because frankly, I read to escape my mom duties at time. I don't want to be reminded of it when I have a spare moment to read.