Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion
III. Goodreads Readers
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Why do you suppose Goodreads reviewers are harsher than Amazon reviewers?
I haven't noticed that Goodreads' reviews are harsher than those on Amazon. But I could easily imagine that if readers are even peripherally aware that the books they review might also be someone's livelihood they might filter their words a bit. This would be more apparent on Amazon, where the book is actually for sale, than on GR which is primarily a social environment.
That's a really good point--good food for thought! Thanks!
Diane wrote: "Why do you suppose Goodreads reviewers are harsher than Amazon reviewers? It's an interesting phenomenon. I wonder if Amazon filters out some of the bad ones in order to boost sales numbers. I not..."I have not noticed it to be the case, to be honest. However, I will say that Amazon seems to be far more strict about enforcing terms of service than GR. One of my fellow authors got a one-star review of a book before it ever came out; ARCs had been carefully controlled and the reviewer was not one of those who had access to the book. GR refused to remove the review on the grounds that "you can't prove she never read it." So, what the point of having a TOS that says you're not supposed to review books you've never read? Gah.
Something even more curious than the ability to rate books that have not been published even in ARC format (which indeed happened to us) is the fact that the same reviewer posted the exact same review on GR and Amazon...on Amazon she rated the book 4 stars, on GR she rated 3. I had not paid much attention to it until I read your thread.
It's curious.
Hey Chris--I had the same thing happen with a reader who posted the same review on Amazon and Goodreads--on Goodreads she gave it 2.5 stars (which showed as 2 stars, since Goodreads doesn't show half stars), and on Amazon she gave it 4 stars. Very strange! I wanted to contact her and ask her why she did that, but I hear that it's bad manners to contact your reviewers, so I didn't. Plus, I didn't want to push my luck and have her demote the Amazon star ranking! lol!
And Sharon--wow, that is horrible about the 1 star pre-publication! Makes you wonder.
keep in mind that if you look at what the stars mean on Amazon and Goodreads they arn't the same. Amazon:
1 hate it
2 don't like it
3 it's ok
4 like it
5 love it
Goodreads:
1 didn't like it
2 it was ok
3 liked it
4 really liked it
5 it was amazing
As an example that means a 2 and a 3 on amazon/GR are the same in theory.
Sadie, based on this chart then yes, it makes sense for my 3/4 stars. I will keep that in mind when I look at the reviews from now on.Diane, yes. NEVER ever comment on reviews. I have learned that even saying thank you is a no-no. SO we just watch and thank those who took the time via our FB page without direct references. Whatever the review --positive or negative--it can be incredibly useful for reference and a learning tool for future books. We do keep our communication channels open to readers and they know they can approach us to discuss, comment, give feedback on our books anytime. Our email, FB, Linked in, GR links are pretty much everywhere. That is possibly a better avenue for input than approaching a reviewer directly.
As self publisher, I have done everything possible to keep my book from grammer and spelling problems. But would you believe that I have corrected many of the grammer and spelling problems in my book only to find them return again later after I submitted some corrections! I am totally upset with the publishing house I used. My books content has had great reviews about the story. But the spelling problems are what is bringing my scores down. Should I warn the reviewer of the problems I have tried to correct? I am really upset because I am getting some lower ratings because of errors caused by my publishing company!
Michelle, is there any way you can put out a new edition or something, to fix the errors?
Hey Sadie--thanks so much for pointing out the ratings differences between Amazon and Goodreads! Ahh, I see things clearly now! :)Chris--thanks for that confirmation!
Michelle--can you pull the files from the house you used and upload directly to various outlets like Amazon and Pubit? That might solve your problem.
To answer the original question, I suspect that if review averages are, on balance, harsher on Goodreads than Amazon, it might have more than a little to do with the fact that it's harder to create glowing fake reviews on Goodreads.
Hmm, maybe, but I can emphatically say that none of my reviews are fake. My friends and family largely disagree with the political slant of my book, and as such, I don't have the luxury of relying on them for reviews.
Perhaps I am naive, but how is it that it is harder to post fake reviews on goodreads, I am assuming by fake reviews we mean reviews posted by those close to the author?
Michelle wrote: "As self publisher, I have done everything possible to keep my book from grammer and spelling problems. "Grammar.
I'm sorry, but I find misspelling grammar in a post talking about how you keep the problems out of your manuscripts a little ironic. :-/
It seems to me GR should switch to 5 star rating, not only to be compatible with Amazon reviews, but to give people more rating options. A lot of times 4 star gradation is just not enough.
Sharon wrote: "Michelle wrote: "As self publisher, I have done everything possible to keep my book from grammer and spelling problems. "Grammar.
I'm sorry, but I find misspelling grammar in a post talking ab..."
Sharon,
I sure wish there was a 'like' button. Oh well, imitation like.
Masha wrote: "It seems to me GR should switch to 5 star rating, not only to be compatible with Amazon reviews, but to give people more rating options. A lot of times 4 star gradation is just not enough."GR *is* a 5-star system.
I have almost the exact same average for my reviews on both Goodreads and Amazon, though it's a different group of folks on each.It's been fun to watch it shake out and see how people overall have reacted.
Message 11 by Kelly: Michelle, is there any way you can put out a new edition or something, to fix the errors?
I have submitted and resubmitted. I just can't seem to get them corrected. When I submit new ones, the old corrections show back up.
I guess I need another publishing company.
I have submitted and resubmitted. I just can't seem to get them corrected. When I submit new ones, the old corrections show back up.
I guess I need another publishing company.
When people review a book on Amazon, I think they tend to consider its merit as a book. However, when they review for Goodreads they're rating their personal enjoyment.Therefore, readers who hate spacemen might be inclined to give a terrific book about spacemen five stars on Amazon, but less on Goodreads.
I review books on both sites. I always put up my Goodreads review first, then I copy and paste the same review for that book on Amazon. I always give the same amount of stars for both Goodreads and Amazon. I previously only posted the review to Amazon if the author had requested it. So not all of my Goodreads reviews are on Amazon.
Rosen wrote: "When people review a book on Amazon, I think they tend to consider its merit as a book. However, when they review for Goodreads they're rating their personal enjoyment.Therefore, readers who hate..."
That's fair - I view Goodreads as a series of personal thoughts on books I've read, so if I don't like a book I'll slam it hard, while Amazon is more of a public-facing review site. A bad review on Goodreads is "not for me", a bad review on Amazon is "not for anyone".
I do agree although if I didn't like (for example) spacemen I wouldn't read the book. There are often free books offered here or on other sites.I think the authors would like a review. I don't think it would be helpful for me to read a book and then give it a low rating because I didn't like the subject in the first place.
Have you never read a book and been disappointed Kerry?
Oh yes I have. I Just wanted to say that there is no point in me reading space stories if I already know I won't like them. They would always have a bad rating. If you look at the books on my read list you will see that I have been disappointed and marked accordingly.
I am among those who haven't noticed any big difference in ratings between Amazon and Goodreads, either for my own novel or books in general. What I have noticed is that books with a very small number of reviews, particularly self-published, tend to have high ratings (the friends and family effect)and that commercially published books, especially those out for some time, may be judged by more critical standards. Similarly,genres that are currently "hot" may get more favorable reviews than mainstream or literary fiction, getting positive responses from reviewers who are as much fans of the genre as the particular book. In any case, the content of a review is more important than the rating.
Fair enough. I don't read stuff in genres that I know aren't for me, unless I'm a particular fan of the author in question. It's probably cost me a few sales and reviews in the old mutual rating back-slapping world, but it means I don't have to read stuff I'm already pretty sure I won't enjoy.
speaking only for myself, I tend to review on Goodreads if I feel I have something to say, because I'm always on Goodreads anyway keeping track of all my books, but then if the book was crap, I can't be arsed to go to Amazon and post it. So the few reviews I have on Amazon tend to be positive, whereas the ones on Goodreads are more mixed.
I think that a large percentage of the reviewers on Amazon are "shilling" in one respect or another for fellow self-pubbed authors and that this contributes greatly to the dichotomy. It has now gotten to the point that self-pubbers are using titles the same as or similar to "real" best selling books and are being careful to keep the lines blurred - allowing folks to mistakenly believe that their book A is, in fact THE book A with the great reviews and NYT Bestseller listing.
It has gotten so bad that I have given up entirely on reading anything on Amazon that relates to stars, reviews or recommendations.
Incidentally, as I'm relatively new to Goodreads, how do I go about getting my children's book on an adolescent's adventures in space and time, reviewed on Goodreads? Do I give out copies or what? My book was published nine months ago (is that too long ago) and I was given twenty review copies from the publisher for my own use. I did my homework and sent them out to various people. I received letters of acknowledgement from David Cameron's office and also Carla Bruni's assistant from the Elysée Palace but no reviews unfortunately!
Steve wrote: "It has now gotten to the point that self-pubbers are using titles the same as or similar to "real" best selling books and are being careful to keep the lines blurred - allowing folks to mistakenly believe that their book A is, in fact THE book A with the great reviews and NYT Bestseller listing."Do you really believe that people are doing that deliberately? I'm sorry, but I find that to be rather incredible.
One thing I've noticed is the "stars" are defined differently on the two sites. It seems to me that a 4 Star on GoodReads is more equivalent to a 5 Star in Amazon, which would tend to make it appear as if the review was harsher in GoodRead, but in fact I think those two ratings are basically saying the same thing. It would be very helpful if there was some standard definition all the bookseller websites could agree on, but I reckon that would be like getting Congress to agree on something. Just saying....
I don't agree that authors shouldn't comment on their reviews or talk to their fans outside of Facebook. My favorite author always thanks every single reviewer, whether it's a good or bad review and has actually built up a very strong loyal following. I was actually surprised that they commented my first review. I eventually bought every single one of their books and they have commented on each review and they visit with us fans all the time on Facebook. I understand why some of you don't but I don't think that should be a prime rule to follow. This author has gone against the grain and because of that they are now my absolute favorite. Their books won me over as a reader but their interaction with us fans won me over as a person. I wish more people were like this author. Sorry but I'd rather not give out any names, I'm not advertising for them, I just wanted you'll to know how I felt as a reader.
Goodreads reviewers aren't getting paid (?)
Jamie wrote: "I don't agree that authors shouldn't comment on their reviews or talk to their fans outside of Facebook. My favorite author always thanks every single reviewer, whether it's a good or bad review a..."I had asked this question on another thread: Is it unethical to thank a reviewer for posting their comments good or bad. So thank you for answering from a reader's point of view. I haven't advertised any of my books for reviews on Goodreads, so all of my reviews, (the few that I have) are honest views from complete strangers. Thanks Jamie for answering my question.
Rolanda: What I've seen some authors do here is "Like" reviews left on their books, both good and bad ones. No posts, no written "thank yous", but I think it carries the same message across: "you read and reviewed my book, here's my way of showing you I noticed it."
Yzabel wrote: "Rolanda: What I've seen some authors do here is "Like" reviews left on their books, both good and bad ones. No posts, no written "thank yous", but I think it carries the same message across: "you r..."Thanks Yzabel! What few reviews I have, I am posting thank you comments to all of them for taking time out of their day and sharing their honest opinion of my book be it good or bad. I can handle constructive criticism, so I appreciate all reviews. I have seen it posted that it can be considered a big no-no and I wasn't sure if that went against the rules of Amazon or GoodReads.
When I review a book on my blog, whatever I give it there I try and carry over to Goodreads, Amazon, Smashwords and Barnes & Noble. I always put a link at the bottom of these reviews saying it was originally reviewed on....If an Author has questions or concerns about the review I give their book, I am more than happy for them to get in contact with me. I don't view it as bad form for someone to know more about the reasoning in my review, providing they don't get ugly and can accept constructive criticism if there is any. I never review a book with the intention of maligning the writer.
I also have a review and rating guideline page on my blog, so they can refer to it and see the brief explanation behind the rating scheme.
With regard to Amazon, I've never had an issue with them publishing a review, and also never had one removed by them.
Jamie wrote: "I don't agree that authors shouldn't comment on their reviews or talk to their fans outside of Facebook. My favorite author always thanks every single reviewer, whether it's a good or bad review a..."Hi, Jamie. I'm just curious . . . how did the author thank you for a review? Through commenting on a public post? A personal email? Amazon? Goodreads? Honestly, as an author, I'm finding it difficult to have direct interaction with readers.
I've had several authors write or email me after I have written reviews thanking me for the review. I think it's nice they take the time to do that and I appreciate it. I try to do the same.
My reviews always seem to be by the same people and they usually do one review and copy/paste it into Goodreads, Amazon and often their own blog so no, I have not seen any difference in reviewing.I guess Amazon may remove bad reviews that do not fit the T&Cs. They have had a bit of bad press from various bloggers talking about ludicrous reviews that diss a book for something unconnected to the book or the writer such as Amazon not delivering it on time.
I haven't really noticed much difference...yet, I think in any case, people are entitles to their opinion and it is our responsibility to be respectful both at the times of positive reviews (woo-hoo) and when someone does not like them (do you know any book or movie that does not have a critic bashing it?)
Rolanda wrote: "I have seen it posted that it can be considered a big no-no and I wasn't sure if that went against the rules of Amazon or GoodReads. "I'm not sure it's against any rules, but I think it's a no-no for a lot of people because it closes down the distance between author and reader. It's both a good and bad thing IMHO. Good, as in authors thanking people shows they care about their own books and others' opinions. Bad, as in it might be considered as an underhanded attempt to sway the reviewer ("oh, the author was so nice in his/her comments... I guess I could add one star to my review?"). I'm not sure it's the main reason, but it's one I've already seen stated.
It also paves up the road for not so nice conversations, in the case of bad reviews/grades. As an author, it can be pretty hard to keep our heads cool about negative critiques, and answering those may lead to writing something we'd regret later on. Some are able to handle that fairly easily, and some aren't. (I'm sure you've read at least once about "Author X makes a fool of himself online behaving like an arse to a reviewer.")
Yzabel wrote: "Rolanda wrote: "I have seen it posted that it can be considered a big no-no and I wasn't sure if that went against the rules of Amazon or GoodReads. "I'm not sure it's against any rules, but I th..."
I always comment on a review - thanking the reader for their time to not only read the novel but also leave their opinion on it. I do it because I, as a reader would appreciate the author responding to my review. After all, we are living in an age of communication without limits and Goodreads is one of the representations of that. Never have the author and reader been so close to each other, why would be want to hold on to some dogmas that were relevant in the pre-ebook age but are not IMHO quite obsolete?
I read that we can be reported for spamming if we interact with our reviewers, which scared me silly. I now thank reviewers who have contacted me personally by private email, and feel I can't contact anyone else. Goodreads instructions state that it is best not to contact anyone even to thank them for a positive review as you may be reported for spamming. I wouldn't want to take the risk, although I would really like to interact with people if they give a nice review. I can understand why we are told not to comment if we are given a bad review. Goodreads policy is just not to comment at all.
I had an unusual experience lately in which one reviewer of my book (who liked the book) chose to engage another reviewer (who didn't like it) with a sort of rebuttal. I watched in awe while they had a rather lively two or three round discussion. It was all very polite and they actually had a reasonable debate. I wouldn't generally respond to a review (good or bad), but in this case I did jump in at the end -- only to resolve a question about the book's timeline, and to thank BOTH of them for their interest.Hey... at least it was obvious from the discourse that both of them had read the book and put some thought into it.
Now, if something like that had happened on Amazon (where reviewers are mostly anonymous) I would worry that a reader might think it was ME responding to a review I didn't like... and that's definitely a no-no for any author.
I cherish all reviews, good or bad, because at least they tell me someone is reading my books; and I might even learn something useful from the bad ones (what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger). That being said, I think I probably would be very upset if I thought someone had reviewed my book without reading it...
Michelle: I'm also an SPA, and you are right -- you need a new publishing company. Hopefully, the one you have now will turn over their files to you, so you can take them to a more author-responsive company and get a revised edition issued. You'll need a new ISBN (and to make sure the old one is retired), but the new publisher should be able to help you with that.
I think Goodreads reviewers tend to think of themselves as people in a book club, where the author is "coached" about reader response, whereas reviewers on sales sites are more attuned to helping the author sell his or her book.
However, I have five one and two star reviews on Goodreads. (Fortunately, there are plenty of good reviews to counteract the bad ones, otherwise I might cry! lol!)
What do you think?