Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

My new friend, Jim, suggested I start this thread and I think it's a good idea. What is the attraction of zombie stories and what sets good ones apart from the horde? I'll start by simply re-posting what I put on my author page at Amazon about zombies and apocalyptic fiction:

"Why do some people find stories depicting the horrific end of civilization appealing? I can't speak for everyone, but as the author of an apocalyptic zombie novel, I have given that question some serious thought. Having grown up with the constant threat of nuclear annihilation, I was always attracted to doomsday books featuring various post-apocalypse survival scenarios.

"One of the most popular type of apocalyptic themes these days features zombies. Zombies engender feelings of fear and revulsion. A well told zombie tale is full of tension, suspense, and the expectation of violent conflict. Most importantly, zombies are the perfect villains because it is cool to kill them!

"The audience doesn't feel sorry for them, at least not after they become zombies. So the reader, or viewer, wants to see them cut to pieces. They want to be exposed to vivid and gratuitous violence inflicted on the undead hordes threatening the vestiges of humanity.

"We live in a day and age when the impossible has become common place. Technology has changed our lives in ways that we are only beginning to appreciate, making life both easier and more complex. Things like cell phones and cloning were only science fiction when I was a boy. So who's to say that zombies are impossible? Apocalyptic stories showing how bad life could become also remind us of how far we have come and that the farther our civilization advances, the farther it has to fall in the event of an apocalyptic event.

"Even those who feel that life has treated them unfairly can relate to a fictional world where their destiny is suddenly up to their own survival drive and ingenuity. Where good and evil are truly black and white. Imagine a world where simply staying alive places you in the top 1%! If that idea is at all appealing to you, then you are a potential fan of apocalyptic fiction and might like the books I write."

By the way, http://davidpforsyth.com/ went live today! Stop by and say hi. :)

Yeah, I really do want to know. Zombies must pose a threat (want to eat you) and must represent the unknown and the out of control. David, I like your statement: "Technology has changed our lives in ways that we are only beginning to appreciate, making life both easier and more complex." I recently said that technology is like Frankenstein. And I think that technology was Mary Shelley's inspiration.

I liked when you said that zombie stories exist in "a fictional world where ... destiny is suddenly up to [ones]own survival drive and ingenuity."

Or maybe that's too academic. I can't wait to see what the zombie pack has to say about this!!

Jim wrote: "...David, I like your statement: "Technology has changed our lives i..."

I recently read The Last Man by Mary Shelly. She had no idea where technology would take us. Her story, set in the 21st century, still had horse drawn carriages and hot air balloons. HG Wells was a bit closer. It boggles the mind that smart phones are smaller than Star Trek communicators and do everything except beam you up. I once designed and taught a high school class called "Science Fiction as Prophetic Literature" but that is a topic for a different thread... :)

If my description of zombie lit seems too academic, that might explain one review of my second book that said, "The hero is not the same-old Regular Guy Pushed To Act but is closer to Heinlein`s Competent Man--that alone makes this stand out."

David wrote: "My new friend, Jim, suggested I start this thread and I think it's a good idea. What is the attraction of zombie stories and what sets good ones apart from the horde? I'll start by simply re-postin..."

Hey, David, nice topic to share just before I turn out the lights. Good post, mind you, zombies do make for great villains you can kill without fear of getting busted by the cops, (or feeling the weight of guilt that would come if you whacked somebody better looking).
I second Jim's post about your comment on technology making our lives both easier and more complex. Ain't that the truth. That part about being in the top 1% got me thinking, too. Would that brand us as outlaw bikers?

One thing I've often wondered about zombies. Given their total disregard for hygiene, and I'm not just talking lack of monthly flossing here, how come their victims never smell them coming from a couple miles away? The wind can't always be blowing the other way.

All kidding aside, David, your post is great food for....

Run, David, run! One of the buggers is right behind you! And he's carrying a bottle of steak sauce.

Steve

The day after watching Simon Pegg's Shaun of the Dead, I recall getting off the train at London Charing Cross on my usual route to work and finding it quite hilarious how many commuters were bumbling around like the zombies in the film; staring blankly at the departure screens, into smartphones, etc. (That of course is the best joke in the film: when Simon Pegg's character goes to the shop soon after a huge swathe of Londoners become zombies and doesn't immediately notice the difference...!)

I'm wondering if this is the appeal of zombies. I feel modern civilisation often has a tendancy to 'zombify' (if there is such a word) through tedious routines (unrewarding jobs, the daily commute with a train full of strangers, etc.). Perhaps the films and books fulfil a need to lash out and get revenge!

Steph wrote: "The day after watching Simon Pegg's Shaun of the Dead, I recall getting off the train at London Charing Cross on my usual route to work and finding it quite hilarious how many commuters were bumbli..."

Excellent point, Steph. I can't count how many pedestrians I've seen come close to death while glued to their phones. And don't get me started about texting and driving. I've actually swerved towards a few to wake them up to reality.

I think it may be a counter-balance to all the hot vampires. You can't make an attractive or romanticized zombie, so that becomes the last refuge of the people-hunted-by-monsters type of horror. Plus zombies can be funny.

If you're going down the academic route, I can't help but think the zombie craze is due partly to a bourgeois terror of the proletariat. Just as Invasion of the Body Snatchers is a transparent manifestation of the paranoia surrounding Communist infiltration of the Western world, so you can't help noticing that the zombie hordes in many films and books do tend to be composed mostly of shambling poor people.

Conversely, this also explains the fascination with vampires: "If one must be bitten and added to the ranks of the undead, better to be so transformed by the sort of fellow one aspires to meet at parties."

Andrew wrote: "If you're going down the academic route, I can't help but think the zombie craze is due partly to a bourgeois terror of the proletariat..."

Perhaps, but maybe that is why my own zombie books stand out in the genre. Some critics think the lead character is too well prepared and has too much going for him. Of course he owes it all to a single Mega Lotto ticket and was a construction superintendent before that. Cool. That's what I was aiming for. I was tired of reading about poor people trapped in malls or barns. The genre needed a story about someone with everything you could ask for when Z-Day hits. But the question then becomes what would you do with it?

"Reflections of a Bookworm" got my drift in one of the most recent 5* reviews of Voyage of the Dead by saying, "the people it surrounds are not only out there to save themselves but they truly want to save other people from a terrible fate and you don’t see that very much anymore."

My idea of a good zombie book is about showing how good people try to help others in distress and share what they have with those who don't. I don't think you need many other villains when you face zombies. But I might be an exception to the rule in that genre.

Looks like this one is a big hit. Let's start another one about "dead" and "zombie" jokes and puns. I'd come up with something, but I'm dead tired and all this writing is killing me. Don't like that? Well, bite me.

Or we can shift to the current Zombie fever and cannibal attacks...

"The Miami-Dade County Medical Examiner Department released more information from the extensive toxicology report. With little surprise, there were no signs of “bath salts” as authorities originally stated. This was also confirmed by an outside agency that assisted in the matter.

"The real kicker is that only marijuana was found in his system. No alcohol, LSD, bath salts, prescription drugs, street altered drugs, synthetic drugs, or any other substance that would alter his state of mind to the point of eating someone." http://www.zombietraining.com/2012/06...

Why don't zombies take showers?
Because they prefer to soak in bath salts.

Yeah. All that pot will give anyone the munchies!

I also saw something on the net about zombie strippers. Looks like there's no end to it.

My son and I often have zombie discussions - debating the various scenarios: we discuss what caused the zombie outbreak: a virus, an alien mutation or genetic manipulation; whether they are fast or slow; if they decay or somehow regenerate; the best places to hole up, how to clear a suburban neighborhood to set up a safe zone... He has multiple contingency plans in place depending on any given situation (he has been talking about the zombie apocalypse for a while now)

What is the appeal? They're frickin' awesome. :) Well, I asked my son and he says with a zombie apocalypse there is some hope for long term survival, depending on the rate of decay or nature of the zombie; where as with a nuclear holocaust, or other apocalyptic scenario, what is left is often inhospitable; any who survive will be reduced to the most primal of primitive man.

With zombies, we can retain some civilization and kill the darkness that we devolve into when all humanity is stripped away. Zombies are an enemy we can fight against and possibly overcome.

He could talk for hours about zombies, and frequently has....

Hi AC. I think you and your son think much the way I do. You two might like my books too. I'm not pitching them. Just saying...
http://davidpforsyth.com

Bump! What's up? Just thought this thread would have more legs... Also an invite to www.sovereignspirit.net where my new post-apocalyptic role playing blog is just about to take off. It's a new concept that other authors might be interested in. Works perfectly with my books.

David wrote: "...What's up? Just thought this thread would have more legs..."

I think the legs fell off. There was a zombie at the check-out when I did my grocery shopping yesterday. He gave me a hand with my bags, but it was all cold and clammy so I gave it him back.

Whaddaya gonna do? That's what I always say. Even though the legs fell off, it had a pretty good run.

Zombies can still crawl without legs...

Oh dear. I think this thread is dead.

There have been a lot of zombies driving around, lately. I try to get to where I'm going as quickly as possible to get home, safely tucked in.

I am diverging slightly, but still it is related to Zombies. GoodReads author Frederick Le Brooke wrote an entertaining book - Zombie Candy, on how the main character managed to take revenge on her Zombie-movie addicted serial killer husband.
I enjoyed reading this book. The review is on GoodReads and Fred's interview is on my blog:
http://www.booksonmyshelves.blogspot....

Looks like the thread's not dead yet. Thought it was a gonner, but it's ALIVE! I TELL YOU. ALIVE!!!

You mean Undead, don't you?

You might think that, but I couldn't possibly comment.

I think part of the appeal of zombie books/movies/etc. is the visceral edge they bring. Most themes in books elicit various emotions (love, pain, excitement, dread, whatever) but when it comes to zombies in particular, there's a wanton carnage that's often not found with many other villains. They're creepy, disgusting, volatile, suspenseful and like someone said: easily replaced. Encounters with them induce adrenaline, granting the reader a rush, while at the same time never asking for too much emotional attachment. That makes them very commercially successful because I think most people don't like to invest in highly complex villains.

Plus, shooting zombies is a guilt-free bloodfest, 'cos they're already dead... (thus spoke an old Doom addict).

"I only know that if zombies chase us I'm tripping you."

How can you NOT love a line like that?

People find dystopia and the undead appealing because all living organisms are hard-wired to consider survival instinct before and inclusive of any other trait.

It's why humans are dichotomous beings: we always have the selfish self-preservation instinct to consider before we take any action, but we value group association (and the strength of numbers) over all other types of survival plan; so we bond for mutual affirmation and security and then adapt belief patterns and rituals that will keep us in those groups, because these rituals and belief patterns can actually change how our brain chemistry reacts to the stresses in our lives.

So anytime you have a story that postulates:
1) A dead being more powerful than living beings
2) A life beyond death, but a bad one
3) A force attempting to dissolve the bonds of social civility
4) A survival potential beyond the worst types of cataclysm/zombie apocalypse we can imagine.....

....well, all of these things fit directly into our most essential, hardwired subconscious behavior patterns. So it makes a lot of sense.

Plus, we get to experience all of those issues, feelings and questions without any real risk, because it's fiction.

I quite honestly don't see the appeal. I know that people do find it appealing and I understand that it has appeal, I just honestly don't find any of that stuff terribly interesting as a form of entertainment.
When I took a class on psychological symbolism, we did discuss that this fear of zombies often had to do with a fear of relationships or a particular kind of relationship (usually something to do with family). There was even a very interesting article on Cracked.com about how zombies and vampires related to the US political situation (and it was very interesting). I find that part of it interesting sometimes and I read those sorts of books with that frame of mind.
I wonder if the recent surge of zombie paranoia has anything to do with the surge of corporate activity in the political sphere. Corporations do pay conservative "grass roots" organizations to basically function, so in that way, it does loosely resemble a hoard of mindless undead zombies coming around to loose people of their better judgements. That and I haven't seen too many politically conservative folks express any concerns about a zombie apocalypse.

Bah, however it goes, there isn't going to be a hoard of brain-munching undead at any point, so that end of things does not have me terribly concerned or intrigued. Haha. :)

Annie wrote: "...fear of zombies often had to do with a fear of relationships or a particular kind of relationship (usually something to do with family)."

I remember family gatherings when I was a child. All the various uncles, aunts, cousins would come staggering out and I'd be like "WHOA! Check this out." So I can see the "family" connection there.

I heard a guy in Detroit wants to open up a Zombie theme park. I think this will be quite a hit given Zombies are quite the thing now and it kinda gives a whole take on the whole Zombie Apocalypse idea.

Be a big improvement for poor old Detriot, too.

Nice post David. I've been watching The Walking Dead series recently and I was thinking that same thing. It seems as zombies have become the popular norm these days. I think you're right when you say it is because you don't have to feel any remorse for them.
The apocalyptic theme I think is derived from a question about what the future will be like. At the rate things are going it would appear we're on the path towards destruction.
In any event they are fun ideas to play with because there are really no set rules to follow.

A unique portrayal of zombies can be found in the movie Dylan Dog, which I found enjoyable but I like campy horror movies. And Brandon Routh.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006Y3XF4A

VOYAGE OF THE DEAD, Volume 1 in a trilogy, is FREE SUnday!

A very cool take on zombie apocalypse, with a much slicker hero, lots of action, and a great opening scene that really grabbed me.

David, I downloaded the Kindle version of your first book and am looking forward to reading it! I promise I will give a fair, honest review once finished.

Cynthia, Thank you! I just checked out a trailer for The Walking Dead on Youtube and it looks great! That's definitely something my wife and I will be watching whilst we wait for Dexter Season 7 and Game of Thrones Season 3 :)

I see that John already mentioned that Voyage of the Dead is FREE today on Amazon. It is doing quite well in the Sci-Fi and Horror rankings. I will probably extend the free promotion through Monday.

Thanks for grabbing it, Keith. I hope you like it.

And thanks John, for posting the kind words and link. By the way, John is a great author with a unique zombie short story in his apocalyptic horror anthology Love has a Taste.

Cynthia, Thank you! I just checked out a ..."

You're welcome Keith!

I happened to catch a marathon of Season 1 & 2 and started wondering why I hadn't been watching this show all along! It's a fun ride!

FREE promotion extended thru Monday due to great results. Voyage of the Dead is currently at:
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #88 Free in Kindle Store (See Top 100 Free in Kindle Store)
#1 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Fiction > Genre Fiction > Science Fiction > Adventure
#6 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Fiction > Genre Fiction > Horror
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006Y3XF4A

Cynthia,

We just finished watching Season 1 of The Walking Dead (in one day). Wow! The second season won't be far behind. I've always loved zombie movies from funny C-grade zombie flicks all the way to full on Hollywood blockbuster zombie movies. My wife hasn't, she hates zombie movies.

She loved The Walking Dead though, which I think is saying something. Awesome show!

I don't watch much tv. Mostly cartoons and football, but I love TWD. There was one point in season two where I was blown away by the plot twist. Can't wait till Oct.

I'm chomping at the bit for Season 3 of TWD!

It's nice to see some TV with decent writing and plot surprises. Strong characters too. But you never know what is going to happen which I enjoy very much!

FYI, "Deluge of the Dead" (#3 in the Sovereign Spirit Saga) will be released on Kindle this week. I turned down an offer from a publisher to give it to you at a lower price. Merry Christmas!

I have a genuine fear of zombies (so much so that I approach every topic like this with caution in case one of you insensitive zombie enthusiasts post a picture). I grew up with a younger brother who was really into the Resident Evil games and that was pretty terrifying. In the past ten years I have noticed the zombie craze growing to such an extent that I barely watch TV anymore. They're everywhere, computer games, fiction, tv shows. I am not a happy bunny! In fact I'm a cowering behind my sofa bunny!

L.E. wrote: "I have a genuine fear of zombies (so much so that I approach every topic like this with caution in case one of you insensitive zombie enthusiasts post a picture). I grew up with a younger brother w..."

LOL. Nice post, L.E.. You honestly might find my zombie books less scary than you might think. Yes, they are scary and gruesome, but the story is about people who survive and overcome the threat posed by the undead. I was actually surprised that many women, including grandmothers, like my books (although others seem to think I am a sexist Right Winger). LOL. Of course I will only post the positive reviews here. For example:

5.0 out of 5 stars The best book/series I have read all year!, October 8, 2012
By
Winona Wentworth "grandma nona" (Franklinville, NC USA) - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)
Amazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)
This review is from: Voyage of the Dead - Book One Sovereign Spirit Saga (Kindle Edition)
I got this book for free so I wasn't expecting much. Boy, was I wrong. Amazon and the author are losing a TON of money by giving this away! Either that or they are brilliant because after reading this book you BEG for more!

I ended up reading the entire series and I'm foaming at the mouth wanting another one! The author makes you feel like you know the characters in the book. You really care about what happens to them. Some of them you want to have good things happen to and some of them you hope it's bad. But either way, you care about what happens. As you read the book you start to think about the fact that it seems SO REAL you wonder if it can really happen. I have always been scared of water and never wanted to be on ANY type of boat/ship. After reading this book I took my 1st cruise "just in case"....

And:

Most Helpful Customer Reviews
17 of 19 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars I'm Buying A Ticket... April 18, 2012
By Sweet Dancing Reindeer (SDR) Marla
Format:Kindle Edition|Amazon Verified Purchase
For the Sovereign Spirit to hide on when the Zombie Apocalypse hits. No where else is this safe or this cool of a place to ride it out! Besides that I need to follow this story along to see where it goes so I'll need that ticket.

I don't read a ton of Zombie stories, but this one intrigued me in that it was written so that it could be followed in real time. The Zombie Apocalypse hit on April 1st 2012 for the purposes of this book and that is the date this book began on. It is unusual and original to be reading along and able to see what happened in this tale really close to the date showing on my calendar.

I knew this story was about zombies so I knew I'd have to suspend a certain amount of belief to go with the flow of it. This book made it easy to do. The characters are all pretty likeable even the minor ones and things like a group sitting around bashing the current President for taking a passive stance on the invasion (of course judging anything they can find to fault him with) and not doing enough felt natural because what President would be prepared to handle the outbreak of a virus that caused humankind to turn into a bunch of flesh eating monsters seemingly overnight and watching them rise to convert more people? And wouldn't the general population be looking for and hungry for someone to blame?

Those that stepped up to lead the groups of survivors felt like logical choices and watching them especially Carl and Scott hide their own fears by using the jargon they were familiar with from war, horror and zombie movies was a hoot. My only criticism is that so far the female characters seem to play pretty insignificant roles in the zombie battle so I hope that in future books they get to play a more active role.

Book one ended at a point where readers could stop if they chose to and still have had a full story. Yet I can't wait to open book 2 to see where we go next with these characters. I gave this one 4 1/2 stars.

Author's Note:: Book 3 will be released this week...

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I just interviewed Ian McClellan whose written a zombie book called ''Zombie Apocalypse 2012'', I am looking to read it myself and I must say after reading about it and interviewing him about it, its a different approach and take on the whole Zombie concept.

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Re Lesbian Samurai Zombies-- I like my characters to be quirky and I like unusual concepts, but I also like my protagonists to have a moral compass and at least experience angst if they do something like eating brains. I'm the same way about vampires. Yes, I know it's so uncool to want characters who think about the ethical consequences of their actions. I'm a real spoilsport. So don't invite me to your zombie parties.