The Mystery, Crime, and Thriller Group discussion

Gerard will be the discussion leader for Absolute Zero Cool by Declan Burke.

I will be the moderator for this read. I think many readers will find this to be unlike any crime novel they have ever read. There are many potential routes for the discussion to go, and I encourage the readers to take the discussion in any direction they wish. This review from the Irish Times is a good pace to start:
'There's a thematic richness, and a level of stylistic control, to Absolute Zero Cool that makes it soar. Far from being just a cleverly postmodern crime novel, this book is, among other things, a meditation on the writing life; a parable about terrorism; a bleak satire of the Irish healthcare system; and a fable about life, death and family responsibility. Absolute Zero Cool isn t quite like anything else you ve read, in any genre. It s clever, intimate, passionate, and funny: altogether a wonderful achievement.' -Kevin Power, The Irish Times.

I hope to moderate with a light touch as the many layers in the book should provide copious discussion topics, and I'm confident, as a group, that we can sustain multiple threads of discussion.

Gerard wrote: "I will be the moderator for this read. I think many readers will find this to be unlike any crime novel they have ever read. There are many potential routes for the discussion to go, and I encourag..."

I've never been involved in any sort of group read. Could I just read the book and listen to what others say? Do I have to read set bits and things like that?

Hi Maria,

We do not set a schedule, you can read at your own pace and comment when, and if, you want. We do ask that you clearly mark any spoilers in your posts however. Using the "spoiler" feature is the best way and instructions for that are in the techno corner folder at the bottom of the site.

Hi Gerard,

Kevin Power's review gives a good idea of what readers can expect from reading AZC. I'll go back and read the novel, but to my mind the "funny" aspect of the book really stood out. It contains some great one liners.

With regard to spoilers, many reviews of the novel mentioned the ending, but it is one of those books where, even if you've been told what's going to happen, the path from here to there is full of surprises.

Hi John,

I have started to read it again myself, and I am already noticing aspects of it that I missed the first time. I think it is one of those books that will generate a different emotional response each time you read it.

Hi Gerry,

I agree: it's not a piece of pulp crime fiction that you forget as easily as you picked it up.

What are the aspects you're picking up on this time around?

Hi John,
For one thing, it has made me think about what a book requires to be deemed a 'crime novel'. Is a tangible crime a necessary condition, or is an intent, or even inclination, sufficient?

An interesting comment, that reminded me how the main character in AZC showed his displeasure at the inclinations and intents the author had dreamed up for him before leaving him in limbo, in an unfinished manuscript, when the author obeyed the need to write something more commercial.

The character proposes to rewrite the author's manuscript for him, refusing, if I remember correctly, the lifestyle and crime the author has sketched out for him.

To what extent is an author responsible for creating even more criminal activity than there already is on the planet and getting an unwitting character to do it for him? That's also a theme I found in the book.

In some ways, AZC reminds me of Delmore Schwarz's short story, "In Dreams Begin Responsibilities" (the title of which comes from Yeats's "In dreams begin responsibilities"). The plot of Schwarz's short story, which I need to reread, now that I've mentioned it, can be found on Wikipedia:

The story tells of an unnamed young man who has a dream that he is in an old-fashioned movie theater in 1909. As he sits down to watch the film, he starts to realize that it is a motion picture documenting his parents' courtship. The black-and-white silent film is of very poor quality, and the camera is shaky, but nonetheless he is engrossed. Soon the young man starts to get upset. He yells things at the screen, trying to influence the outcome of his parents' courtship...

There is something about how much we really control our own lives as opposed to weaving a safety net within a comfort zone of our own (or somebody else's) making. I wouldn't read crime fiction myself unless it offered entertainment or escapism at some level, but I find many books in the genre are, perhaps, too sanitised; the real effects of crime, especially violence, are often glossed over so that the real impact on society, or individuals, or characters, is avoided, sometimes to the detriment of the novel itself.
AZC certainly challenges the perception of 'reality' within the construct of the novel, and the 'crime' element is played out between and through those extra layers.
I am about 25% through my re-reading and, if anything, I am enjoying it even more this time, which must be the mark of a good book.

I've only just glanced through the prologue - looking forward to quiet time for a good and thorough read. I like the idea of the challenge Gerard mentioned, re the perception of 'reality', especially in the 'confines' of a crime novel.

Robin,
I think it is a book which will provide ample reward for the time invested in reading it.
As I re-read it this time, I'm playing around with the notion of 'conscience'. What is it? Why do some people seem to have less of it than others? Is 'conscience' the thread that holds civilisation (as we know it, anyway) together? Can we turn it off and on?

Gerard,
I am interested in these notions as well. A friend of mine pointed out an article to me, entitled "Evolution and Our Inner Conflict" (not sure if the link will work here, but just in case:
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/...). In broad terms, the article discusses the layering of our brains during stages of evolution, and how socialization, especially the need for it, is an integral part of our development. The idea of 'conscience' you mentioned made me think of this article. Also makes me want to dig down into this novel.

Thanks Robin, the link does work. A very interesting article. I think the professor offers a useful place to start with crime fiction when he says:
"...within groups selfish individuals beat altruistic individuals, but groups of altruists beat groups of selfish individuals."
The heroes and villains of the genre usually enact that conflict for us at a safe distance, but this novel manages to twist crime writing conventions to test the fragile margins between good and bad.

I could only find this book on Kindle.

Hi Paulette, I had trouble finding it in my local bookstore - I called to check for a copy, and was told it a new printing was coming out, wasn't available to them yet. We moved to England last year, so I checked Amazon UK, and they had two options - Kindle or paperback (because they always seem prepared, these Amazon guys) - but I chose the e-book so I could get the book more quickly. From what I've read so far,I was glad I did.

Gerard,

You mentioned "The heroes and villains of the genre usually enact that conflict for us [re....groups of altrusts beat groups of selfish individuals] at a safe distance, but this novel manages to twist crime writing conventions to test the fragile margins between good and bad."

My two lit loves are crime fiction (in whatever sub-genre) and literary fiction. And my absolute favorite is the combo of the two. I've read that the enacting of the conflict you mentioned in crime fiction is the modern equivalent of the morality play (example:http://www.britishcouncil.org/arts-li... )

For me, this makes the "fragile margins between good and bad" in this novel a delicious prospect. I have one more day of busy work and other crap, and then I'm digging in.

Robin,
Not finding a book in the local bookstore is all too common, especially when it's from a small press. A few months ago, I did an informal check of how many Irish crime writers books, including Absolute Zero Cool, could be found in the bookshops of a few towns in the West of Ireland (Easons mostly). Even in Galway it was difficult to find any living Irish crime writer apart from Ken Bruen (although all the international best sellers were visible in the shelves). Luckily, the investment in a Kindle now allows us to get our hands on books quickly.

Some of the most comic scenes in the book, I found, were the descriptions of what it entails to be a hospital porter. The scenes are never demeaning to the patients, in fact they show a lot of consideration, but some of them are real standouts.

John,
I agree on the Kindle. I have to admit I love the feeling of pages in my hands. That said, I also love the convenience of an instantly available read.
That's the pits that Irish crime writers' work can't be eaiy found on the shelves in Ireland. Crazy stuff! But I guess that's what happens everywhere now - the bestsellers are paraded 'proudly', and everything else is found catch as catch can. I'm not sure that's indicative of the reading public as much as it's indicative of the perception of the tastes of the reading public. Disappointing, either way.

Is the one-legged ex-mechanic the character who is served with most dignity in the book?

Robin,
I too love the feeling of pages and I only use the Kindle when I know I won't be able to get my hands on a paper copy of a book within a reasonable period of time. Apart from Irish Crime writers, the next genre I find the Kindle useful for is nineteenth century writers whose work is out of copyright and/or out of print.

The problem with many best sellers, including the recent Scandinavian crime novels, is that they seem to have been written to a formula. Personally, I never want to fall asleep over the same story twice. AZC is a good example of idiosyncratic writing that, instead of inducing narcolepsy, stimulated this reader's neurones as he tried to understand what the hell was going on!

After reading the last chapter, I reread the first one and, at that point, anything I hadn't understood fell into place.

Gerry,

In reply to your question, I'll ask another one. Is the author the person who is treated with the least dignity in the book?

John,

The author has certainly been demoted from the customary lofty position of omnipotence that usually enables the 'writing to a formula' you refer to in message 22. His usurpation by rogue characters makes him vulnerable, but that gifts a commensurate measure of dignity back to the reader since, as you say, we are required to concentrate in a way that is un-necessary in many bestsellers.

Absolute Zero Cool won the Goldsboro Last Laugh award back at the end of May, beating out competition from writers such as Elmore Leonard and Carl Hiassen. Interested readers can learn more about this, and see reviews of the novel on Declan Burke's website Crime Always Pays: http://crimealwayspays.blogspot.fr/

Thanks for that link, John. I read Declan Burke's post, and his reaction when he thought he'd heard his name as winner, that he felt the need to confirm that it wasn’t some deranged acid flash-back hallucination - loved it!

Also, book to be published this fall, that he co-edited with John Connolly - "Books to Die For" - sounds like a damn good read.

I'm ALMOST finished reading the novel. Being new here, I need to ask, when do the active discussions of the novel begin?

Robin,
As soon as anyone wants to make a comment. I suppose some readers find it unconventional and are waiting until they finish before commenting. I know I enjoyed it as I read it but it was only after I finished that I could start to work out what I thought about it.
What do you think of it so far?

Robin wrote: "Thanks for that link, John. I read Declan Burke's post, and his reaction when he thought he'd heard his name as winner, that he felt the need to confirm that it wasn’t some deranged acid flash-back..."

Thanks for your reply, Robin. I suppose the active discussions can begin as soon as people who've read it want to share their ideas.

Hi John, Robin, and Gerard. You don't have to wait to discuss the book because you can use the "spoiler" feature to hide any comments you don't want someone to accidentally see.

Thanks, John and Donna,

I'll look at how to use the spoiler feature, Donna - appreciate that info! I just joined Goodreads a few weeks ago - trying to make sure I learn the ropes.

John, the first few pages had me wondering - interested, but wondering - after that, I started enjoying the read. It's very different from the traditional. I like that in a novel as long as it's well done, and this certainly is!

Robin,
It is very different from the traditional American or Western European mystery or thriller. When I got to the last page of the book, I still wasn't sure I'd understood everything. That's when I read chapter one again and everything fell into place.

What did you think about the role in the book of the author's daughter?

OK. Just bear in mind this is the first time I've done a group read thingy. An interesting idea, especially for another a writer. The author's rather cynical view of human nature comes screaming through and I've shared some of his frustrations. If I'm honest had it not been a group read I probably would have given up one third in. I'm not drawn to either character as I sense too much self pity & what about me. I've just started the final section and I am becoming a little more hooked - but not sure I would have perservered left to my own devices.

Maria,
I think that the group read performs a very useful function when it draws us to books we may not have picked up ourselves.
I agree that the device/structure is interesting, and I admire the author's agile delivery, but I soon forgot about the writing mechanics and just enjoyed the story.
Keep us posted with how you feel about it as you go through the final section.

Maria,
Great that you're hanging in there. The comment about the self-pity is interesting. I would probably have termed the way the characters worry about themselves as "extreme self-fascination", in a sort of Woody Allenish way, where the writer puts enough distance between himself and his foibles to make them funny to others. There is a lot of "tongue in cheek" work going on in the book.

Below are a couple of paragraphs that I remembered reading in the Irish Independent review of the book (by Hilary A. White) and that I just looked up again:

"...sociopath Billy Karlsson presents himself to a struggling writer (let's call him Declan Burke) at a retreat in Sligo. Billy is the protagonist of one of Declan's shelved projects and convinces the author and father of one to re-write the aborted draft with a variety of suggestions and changes to release him from unpublished limbo. This involves Karlsson, a hospital porter, promoting himself from idle pillow euthaniser in the old-age wards to all-out architect of the hospital's structural demise.

The pair meet regularly over a breakfast of coffee and fags for snappily phrased workshopping and bickering. Billy, it turns out, is also busy writing Sermo Vulgus, his own wildly intense prose about his attractive on-page partner Cassie. The strands -- Declan and Billy, Billy's writing excerpts and those of Declan -- all rotate within four chapters which mark the seasons, commencing with winter. That the final chapter is a play on the US term for autumn gives an idea of the hospital's fate..."

Just popping on quickly to say that I am thoroughly enjoying this read. Metafiction can be dicey, i.e., offputting, to the reader, if not done "spot on". This novel, hoever, IS done that well. I feel I am in the author's head with him as he imagines and writes and as real life intrudes on his fictive dream, and the attendant layering.

I've got the last half of "Fall" to read, and wanted to wait until I'd finished before I said too much, but family have invaded here (I guess that's a good thing, right?!) and it may be a few days before I can finish and think through what all I want to say.

John, I am very much enjoying the "intrusion" of the author's daughter, dirty nappies et al. More later...

Well I've just finished. The ending was and wasn't what I was expecting. Going to go away and think a bit. So thought provoking.I have a feeling I may have missed things along the way and this is a book I may re read in a year or so.

Maria,
I had to muster my thoughts after I had finished; always a sign of a good book, I think.

Agree with both - ths is a thought provoking novel, and it made me muster my thoughts about a lot of things. Can't say more until I get those last few pages read - then I want to reread the lines here and there that I highlighted.

I have to say - this book was a lot more than I'd expected, and I mean that in the best way. Sometimes I read to be enlightened, sometimes to be entertained - and this time, I received both - which initially I didn't enjoy so much, because my brain had been prepped to be only entertained. I hadn't read much about this novel or the author, on purpose - so I had no real idea what to expect.

Approaching the book as a crime novel, my first impression was that it could only be so different from the expected format because the author had made the decision to experiment with the genre.

It also strikes me that the author, like many innovators, had the confidence to experiment precisely because he is well grounded in the traditions and norms of the genre.
A quick look at his 'Crime Always Pays' blog confirms this - http://crimealwayspays.blogspot.co.uk/

The current blog highlights the new book that Declan Burke has edited in tandem with John Connolly.

"BOOKS TO DIE FOR is a unique, must-have anthology for any fan of the mystery genre, featuring personal essays from 120 of the world’s most beloved and renowned crime writers on the mysteries and thrillers that they most admire, edited by two of their own—John Connolly and Declan Burke.
Tana French on The Secret History by Donna Tartt; Jo Nesbø on Jim Thompson’s Pop. 1280; Kathy Reichs on The Silence of the Lambs by Thomas Harris; Michael Connelly on Raymond Chandler’s The Little Sister, and Charlaine Harris on Geoffrey Household’s Rogue Male: these are just a few of the 120 internationally bestselling mystery writers showcased in this collection—a book every reader of crime fiction should own.
In the most ambitious anthology of its kind ever compiled, each author pays a deeply personal tribute to one mystery that means the most to them, explaining why that book affects them and how it has influenced their own work. This collection presents a treasure trove of works in the mystery genre by the people who know it best, and is an essential guide for all readers and writers."

Like most disciplines, I think it is those that understand the crime genre best that are best equipped to stretch the existing boundaries, which are as much about reader expectations as they are the writer's imagination.

Meanwhile, Declan tells us on his blog that his latest book will be launched in August.
I will look out for 'SLAUGHTER'S HOUND', and can't wait to see how it compares to AZC.

For those of us in Ireland and the UK, Burke and Connolly are touring with launch events in August and September (details on Crime Always Pays).

I will be preparing my list of questions about Absolute Cool Zero to be presented to Declan Burke when he visits Belfast.

Robin said:
"I have to say - this book was a lot more than I'd expected, and I mean that in the best way. Sometimes I read to be enlightened, sometimes to be entertained - and this time, I received both - which initially I didn't enjoy so much, because my brain had been prepped to be only entertained."

That really sums it up for me as well, Robin. What do other people think about the enlightened/entertained thing?

I've finally had a chance to finish the novel - looking forward to seeing what others think!

Gerry,

I was entertained, especially at Declan Burke's hilarious portrayal of what it takes to get by in modern Ireland, mainly through the mechanism of the hard-boiled one-liner. You've got to be hip, you've got to be cool, you've got to give the impression you're making it while, as in the case of the hospital porter, you don't even know who the hell you are. This was something I also found in the first novel of Burke's I read, Eight Ball Boogie.

I've just finished reading a couple of historical crime novels and, however good they are at period detail, I'm not as enlightened by them as I am by novels in which an author writes about his or her own times, or how he struggles with characters he's invented himself, not found in history books.

I think it's a lot easier to read up on, say, 1920s or 1940s Berlin and write about stuff that's already been neatly documented by the historians than it is to enlighten a modern reader about one's own times in Dublin, Sligo or any other small, medium or large town.

Spoilers written while I was thinking through the end of the novel:

(view spoiler)[Towards the end of the novel, the author/protagonist is having one of his conversations with one of his characters, Karlsson/Billy, and the author says to him:
“I’m just a character in everyone else’s story, Billy. They’re just characters in mine.”
For me, this is the core truth laid bare regarding the sometimes surreal creative process that Burke describes so strikingly (not to mention, so well) in this novel.
A few paragraphs later, life intrudes on the author’s ruminations and conversations, as it does in ‘real life’– when the author’s wife pops his cerebral bubble with a nappy prep issue:
“‘Hey, Hemingway?’ Deborah steps out onto the patio, shading her eyes with one hand. ‘It’s nearly ten-past and your parents are expecting us for seven. Can you get Rosie changed and put her in the car?’” (hide spoiler)]


(view spoiler)[ The last pages of the novel, where the same lines are used for both fiction and reality, and where the dictates of the traditional crime novel are listed and seemingly followed, were really interesting to me. Examples of crime novel end-of-story rules that are described: "All that is left now is the small but perfectly formed matter of ritual sacrifice. A token gesture. A sop to those who like their absolution painful and gory." I realized I had a half-smile on my face as I read this, because I do actually beleive that one of the things I enjoy about well-written traditional crime novels, be they noir, thriller, mystery, what-have-you - is precisely what Burke has described. Because I see the crime novel as a modern day morality play of sorts - which generally works well only when the parts to be played, are in fact, played - and this includes a satisfying ending.
So - shaving the parts to expose them, along withe also exposing the writing process through metafiction - are what make this novel a damn good one. (hide spoiler)]

Robin,

There are so many egocentric and selfish writers and artists who are bad for other people. On the other hand, in this novel you have a writer who wants to live up to his responsibilities and be good for other people.

A thread running through the book definitely is: "How can you devote yourself 100% to creating a body of work if your cerebral bubble is continually being popped by domestic responsibilities?"

John,

I like it that Declan Burke, father of a baby girl, wrapped that feeling and circumstance into this novel. Stephen King mentioned in his book, On Writing, that real world intrusions were important to the creative process. Can't remember the precise reasons he gave, but my impression was something on the order of: without grit, an oyster can't make a pearl. That kind of thing. So I think Burke's inclusion of the 'writer's retreat', which provides no real peace and retreat, is a perfect setup for this story unfolding. And his inclusion of his family, renamed, in the novel, was good stuff!

"without grit, an oyster can't make a pearl"

Great analogy!

Thanks, John!

Oops - hit 'post' too soon. Meant also to say...."and Steve King thanks you, too!"

I see that Declan Burke's new work, 'Slaughter's Hound', is continuing on from his earlier, 'Eight Ball Boogie', and will, I expect, be in the more familiar crime genre mode.
Is 'Absolute Zero Cool', by its form and structure, a one-off, or could it be sustained as a series?

Robin wrote: "Oops - hit 'post' too soon. Meant also to say...."and Steve King thanks you, too!""

Robin, thanks for your thanks and the thanks from Steve King. What do you think his take would be on Absolute Zero Cool?