The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

DISCUSSION SUGGESTIONS ARE IN POST # 11.

I'm on vacation this past week, and thought I had planned ahead. I prepared the suggestions ahead of time. Emailed them to myself. Checked that the hotel had wifi. But forgot that my Nook won't copy and paste until I got here.

I'll put the suggestions up tomorrow afternoon when I get home as I sit weeping over my laptop because I'm bummed my vacation is over. ;)

But to start things off, we finally hear about Moriarty, the villian of the SH tales. In Part One, what do we learn about Moriarty?

Thanks for all your good work Lynn, especially as you have been on vacation! Hope you've had a super time!

Now this is a story right up my street! Based on a real life tale of AMERICAN Communists - 'political repression in a free country'!! (Possible spoilers.)

http://thecommune.co.uk/2009/07/23/th...

Rather a good little private documentary with background history of the Irish Coal Miners of Pennsylvania who formed the MMs, with some contemporary photos:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLA0Zr...

A folk song 'Lament for the Molly Maguires' - let's all sing along!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B2V9Y...

A review of the 1970 film with Sean Connery:-

http://sibob.org/wordpress/?p=7565

Now I wonder how left wing/right wing SH and CD will turn out to be.....

Birlstone Manor, scene of the murder in Chapter 1 is based on Groombridge Place, near Tunbridge Wells, a Spa town on the Kent/Sussex border:-

http://www.kent-sightseeing.co.uk/gro...

The site has an ancient history and some beautiful gardens (which I have visited):-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groombri...

The expensive painting referred to as owned by Moriarty in Chapter 2:-

http://www.artsunlight.com/artist-NG/...

Conan Doyle's links with Sussex, where he is buried-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/sussex/hi...

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1036150

MadgeUK wrote: "Birlstone Manor, scene of the murder in Chapter 1 is based on Groombridge Place, near Tunbridge Wells, a Spa town on the Kent/Sussex border:-

http://www.kent-sightseeing.co.uk/gro......"

First, thanks for all the links. Looking forward to going through them when I get home.

And this story is up my alley as well. The first part focusess on the clues. But part two has capitalism, communism (everyone get your Mr. Marx ready!), freemasons, Pinkertons. Whooo hooo!!! :-)

BunWat wrote: "I read this ages ago, so to refresh my memory of it I just picked up an audiobook version narrated by Derek Jacobi! Very excited to listen!"

Oooh, that would be great! If I were listening to that, I'd like to think The Master was reading to me. Or possibly Hamlet. Or maybe Claudius ....

Lynnm wrote: "I'm on vacation this past week, and thought I had planned ahead. I prepared the suggestions ahead of time. Emailed them to myself. Checked that the hotel had wifi. But forgot that my Nook won't c..."

Moriarty is Holmes' arch-nemesis, the Napoleon of Crime -- "The greatest schemer of all time, the organizer of every deviltry, the controlling brain of the underworld," according to Holmes.

His cover is that of a mild-mannered mathematics professor who writes tomes like "The Dynamics of the Asteroid" that lesser mortals cannot even understand.

He also appears to love litigation.

I always thought the egotistical Holmes was somewhat overestimating Moriarty's abilities. He always appeared to be a sort of mid-Victorian Mafia don to me.

Holmes ego would require him to think that anyone who is his arch-enemy must be the most supremely gifted criminal of all time.

I've always thought that if Moriarty really had the intelligence and ability to make and mar the fate of nations he would have better things to do than mess with Sherlock Holmes.

.

Much has been made of Moriarty's Irish name by Holmes' fans, although his identity in the stories is that of an English gentleman.

Doyle was raised in Scotland with a Scottish father and Irish mother. Doyle probably named Moriarty unconsciously and this has led to boatloads of psychoanalysis, which may or may not be valid.

According to one Web site, Moriarty was based on a real man named Adam Worth.

Here is the link:

http://www.siracd.com/sherlock/moriar...

Thanks for that interesting info Amanda. I had always thought that M was based on Jonathan Wild, a notorious 18C London criminal. I see M as SH's alter ego, a Mr Hyde to SH's Dr Jekyll - a psychological idea which was popular in Victorian times.

BTW folks does your edition of VoF use the word 'Scotch/Scotchman'? This is old-fashioned usage and nowadays 'Scotch' is the name of the drink whisky, and certain foods, not a description of a Scot or anything Scottish. We are often corrected about this at school.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch_(...

That link also makes mention of the fact that 'Scotland was one of the first countries in the world to introduce compulsory education for all children in 1696' and in chapter 3 Inspector MacDonald mentions that he had a good 'Aberdeen education'. Scots are very proud that their education system is superior to the English one and will lose no opportunity to remind us of it - which is what CD is doing:). It is even more pertinent today as under a devolved Scotland, university education is still free whereas there are now punitive tuition fees for the English, Welsh and Irish:(.

Some discussion suggestions on Part I of The Valley of Fear:

- What are the key clues regarding what happened the night of the murder?

- There are a number of possible explanations on what happened the night of the murder. What are some of those explanations? Of course, Sherlock comes up with The Solution. What do we know of case’s The Solution so far in Part I?

- Who are Jean Baptiste Greuze and Jonathan Wild, and what do they have to do with Moriarty?

- It is said that villains are more interesting than the “good” guy in the story. Why do you think that is true? Is that true in this case with Moriarty vs. Sherlock? Or don’t we know enough about Moriarty yet?

- A cipher plays a role at the start of the text. How does the cipher work and how does Sherlock break it?

- How do Inspector MacDonald and White Mason differ from Lestrade and Gregson? Does it affect the way Sherlock treats them?

- What is the “American business principle”?

- We begin to see some of Sherlock’s cutting remarks towards Watson in the first chapter, something that was missing in A Study in Scarlet. (I lost count after about five.) Did you notice them, and what was your reaction?

- How does this history of Birlstone House play into the case? How does its description add to the atmosphere surrounding the case?

- At this point in the novel, how would we describe Mr. Douglas, Mrs. Douglas, and Cecil Barker?

- For the Americans on the forum, were you surprised that yet again the case involves Americans? (And next week, we’ll find Americans again in The Adventure of the Dancing Men.)

- We get a hint about the Valley of Fear from Sherlock’s interview with Mrs. Douglas. What name is connected with the Valley of Fear?

- In the last chapter of Part I, Sherlock compares detective work to that of an artist. How?

Some memorable quotes from The Valley of Fear:

- Watson: “I believe that I am one of the most long-suffering of mortals; but I’ll admit that I was annoyed at the sardonic interruption. “Really, Holmes,” said I severely, “you are a little trying at times.”

- Sherlock on Moriarty: “Picture to yourself the pilot fish with the shark, the jackal with the lion—anything that is insignificant in companionship with what is formidable: not only formidable, Watson, but sinister—in the highest degree sinister. That is where he comes within my purview. You have heard me speak of Professor Moriarty?”

- Sherlock on Moriarty: “When you have one of the first brains in Europe up against you, and all the powers of darkness at his back, there are infinite possibilities.”

- Watson on Sherlock: “Holmes had the impersonal joy of the true artist in his better work, even as he mourned darkly when it fell below the high level to which he aspired.”

- Watson describing MacDonald’s attitude towards Sherlock: “Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself; but talent enough for his profession to enable him to perceive that there was no humiliation in seeking the assistance of one who already stood alone in Europe, both in his gifts and in his experience.”

- Watson on Sherlock’s reaction to Mr. Douglas’ death: “It would be an overstatement to say that he was shocked or even excited by the amazing announcement. Without having a tinge of cruelty in his singular composition, he was undoubtedly callous from long overstimulation.”

- Sherlock on his relationship with the police: “I go into a case to help the ends of justice and the work of the police. If I have ever separated myself from the official force, it is because they have first separated themselves from me. I have no wish ever to score at their expense.”

- “Three centuries had flowed past the old Manor House, centuries of births and of homecomings, of country dances and of the meetings of fox hunters. Strange that now in its old age this dark business should have cast its shadow upon the venerable walls! And yet those strange, peaked roofs and quaint, overhung gables were a fitting covering to grim and terrible intrigue. As I looked at the deep-set windows and the long sweep of the dull-coloured, water-lapped front, I felt that no more fitting scene could be set for such a tragedy.”

- Sherlock: “I am not a whole-souled admirer of womankind.”

- Sherlock: “Watson insists that I am the dramatist in real life…Some touch of the artist wells up within me, and call insistently for a well staged performance. Surely our profession, Mr. Mac, would be a drab and sordid one if we did not sometimes set the scene so as to glorify our results. The blunt accusation, the brutal tap upon the shoulder—what can one make of such a denouement? But the quick inference, the subtle trap, the clever forecast of coming events, the triumphant vindication of bold theories—are these not the pride and the justification of our life’s work?”

Plenty of food for thought ... you did a great job, Lynn - as always!
This time hopefully I'll be able to follow the discussion more closely. It was not due to a lack of interest that I neglected A Study in Scarlet, I just had a really upsetting week.
I also have to thank you, Amanda, for your insightful posts about Moriarty - one of the canon's most intriguing characters, in my opinion. My interest in his personality - let's admit it - may be owing to the fact that he's impersonated by a most stunning actor in the BBC series ...
However, I was a little disappointed that he doesn't really play such a big role in the novel. As a puppetmaster he certainly pulls the strings, but we don't really 'get to know him' up close and personal.

Amanda wrote: "I always thought the egotistical Holmes was somewhat overestimating Moriarty's abilities. He always appeared to be a sort of mid-Victorian Mafia don to me.

Holmes ego would require him to think that anyone who is his arch-enemy must be the most supremely gifted criminal of all time.

I've always thought that if Moriarty really had the intelligence and ability to make and mar the fate of nations he would have better things to do than mess with Sherlock Holmes.
"

Good points, Amanda.

Most criminals usually get caught so you do have to wonder about their abilities and intelligence.

Would there be a difference though between an ordinary criminal and someone like Moriarty who runs the show and has been very successful?

And with Watson's stories carrying Sherlock's fame across the London area, wouldn't he feel a bit threatened?

Food for thought.

Amanda wrote: "Much has been made of Moriarty's Irish name by Holmes' fans, although his identity in the stories is that of an English gentleman.

Doyle was raised in Scotland with a Scottish father and Irish mot..."

Yes, that definitely has been an issue for the BBC Series.

This is Steven Moffat on (briefly) why he decided to have Andrew Scott use an Irish brogue:

"Some thought Scott's frenzied, camp Moriarty a betrayal of Conan Doyle's original – "They were imagining a twirling moustache guy," is Scott's assessment of the reaction – while others grumbled about Moriarty's Irish brogue.

Moffat is unrepentant. "I asked him to do an Irish accent because Moriarty's an Irish name and there's never been an Irish Moriarty," he says.""

Jo wrote: "Plenty of food for thought ... you did a great job, Lynn - as always!
This time hopefully I'll be able to follow the discussion more closely. It was not due to a lack of interest that I neglected A..."

Thanks, Jo. And I hope you have a better week.

I totally agree about Andrew Scott.

And given what Sherlock says about him in The Valley of Fear, it does draw the reader in to want to know more about this, as you said, intriguing character. It is a nice device used by Doyle.

But annoying as well. I want to meet Moriarty in person in the novels. Although it takes us awhile in the series as well - we don't physically see him until the third episode.

Lynnm wrote: "Amanda wrote: "I always thought the egotistical Holmes was somewhat overestimating Moriarty's abilities. He always appeared to be a sort of mid-Victorian Mafia don to me.

Holmes ego would require..."

Thanks for the comments, Lynn, and for your excellent job as a moderator. Moriarty is such an intriguing character because he can be interpreted in so many different ways.

That brings me to the quote about Moriarty in your memorable quotes post.

Sherlock on Moriarty: “When you have one of the first brains in Europe up against you, and all the powers of darkness at his back, there are infinite possibilities.”

This quote is so intriguing. It is hard to tell exactly what Holmes means by "all the powers of darkness at his back."

Holmes could just mean that Moriarty is an evil man who controls all of the criminals in Europe and that he can get them to do his bidding at a moment's notice.

However, saying someone is in league with the powers of darkness is pretty strong language. To me, it seems that Holmes is implying a diabolical or at least a supernatural element to Moriarty's powers.

Of course, this is out of character for the rational, scientific Holmes, who is never portrayed as a religious person in the stories.

Clearly, Holmes is rattled by Moriarty -- more rattled than he would like to admit. That quote displays a certain amount of vulnerability -- and even fear -- that the cocky Holmes never displayed in "A Study in Scarlet."

MadgeUK wrote: "Thanks for that interesting info Amanda. I had always thought that M was based on Jonathan Wild, a notorious 18C London criminal. I see M as SH's alter ego, a Mr Hyde to SH's Dr Jekyll - a psycholo..."

I wondered about the Scotch/Scotchman references too, especially since Doyle was Scottish.

When I was growing up, a Scottish minister stayed in our home for several weeks. He was very sensitive about this point. He lectured anyone in earshot about the proper use of Scot/Scotch.

He seemed to take special offense at Scotch tape, which is sold here in the US in containers covered in tartan. I don't know if they sell the same thing in the UK, but after he spotted one in a convenience store he went into a lengthy lecture that encompassed Robert Bruce, William Wallace and Bonnie Prince Charlie.

LOL Amanda, I have heard such lectures too, which is why I raised the point:). Yes, Scotch tape is sold here and I expect it upsets a great many Scots.

Lynnm wrote: "But annoying as well. I want to meet Moriarty in person in the novels. Although it takes us awhile in the series as well - we don't physically see him until the third episode."

Me too.
Then again, it's the fact that he's rarely physically present that makes both the stories and the films so very interesting and suspenseful. I actually like the idea of the 'invisible villain', the looming danger that has no face, yet is very tangible in a way.

Amanda wrote: "MadgeUK wrote: "Thanks for that interesting info Amanda. I had always thought that M was based on Jonathan Wild, a notorious 18C London criminal. I see M as SH's alter ego, a Mr Hyde to SH's Dr Jek..."

It never even occurred to me that Scotch tape referred to Scots. I just thought it was the original owner's name. And I probably never would have put that much thought into it if you hadn't mentioned it.

But here it is from Wikipedia:

"Use of the term "Scotch" in the name has a pejorative origin. A customer complained that 3M was manufacturing its masking tape too cheaply, and told company engineer Richard Drew to, "take this tape back to your stingy Scotch bosses and tell them to put more adhesive on it."

Scotty McTape, a kilt-wearing cartoon boy, was the brand's mascot for two decades, first appearing in 1944.[3] The familiar tartan design, a take on the Wallace tartan, was introduced in 1945."

Well, you learn something new everyday. :-)

BunWat wrote: "I like the invisible villain too. I imagine Holmes and Moriarty as two spiders in different corners of a giant web of events and people all acting and being acted upon. They can "feel" each other..."

I like that imaginery. :-)

Amanda wrote: "Sherlock on Moriarty: “When you have one of the first brains in Europe up against you, and all the powers of darkness at his back, there are infinite possibilities.”

Clearly, Holmes is rattled by Moriarty -- more rattled than he would like to admit. That quote displays a certain amount of vulnerability -- and even fear -- that the cocky Holmes never displayed in "A Study in Scarlet."
"

I liked that quote as well. There are certain people in the world - fortunately, not too many - that truly have a dark side.

And we've long been fascinated with that aspect of human behavior.

We can go back to the Biblical origins of good vs. evil. God vs. Lucifer. And fictional books and of course Hollywood love playing off of those themes. Batman and the Joker. Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader. The Doctor and The Master. The list can go on and on.

Here, it is obviously Sherlock and Moriarty.

What is best though is when the good character isn't completely good and the bad character has some type of good reason on why they are bad. Rarely is anyone ever completely good or completely evil.

Sherlock definitely isn't completely good. We've already discussed that.

Sherlock makes it sound as if Moriarty is completely bad. But Moriarty covers himself with a "good" persona. Inspector MacDonald says that Moriarty "seems to be a very respectable, learned, and talented sort of man." MacDonald even claims that Moriarty gave him something "like a father's blessing."

To me, the good vs. evil in fiction/film is really interesting, and I always love to see how authors/directors/actors give their own spin to that theme.

Lynnm wrote: "Amanda wrote: "Sherlock on Moriarty: “When you have one of the first brains in Europe up against you, and all the powers of darkness at his back, there are infinite possibilities.”

Clearly, Holmes..."

Yes, LynnM, in "The Valley of Fear" Moriarty goes out of his way to portray himself as "an angel of light." He is just a poor mathematics professor who is being persecuted by that eccentric Sherlock Holmes (season 2 of Sherlock does a great job with this theme).

I hadn't read "The Valley of Fear" in quite awhile. I had forgotten about Moriarty's interview with Inspector McDonald.

To me, it is very sinister and creepy. It almost appears as if he is using some type of mind-control on the Inspector.

Moriarty turns that reflector lantern on his face, and they have a discussion on eclipses, which the Scotland Yard detective certainly knew next to nothing about. "How the talk got that way I canna think," the Inspector remembers.

Inspector McDonald's quote about Moriarty's hand on his shoulder being like "a father's blessing" almost has a religious overtone to it. Most people don't get that feeling when they meet a math professor.

At the very least, Moriarty must have been a master manipulator. His talents were really wasted on the London underworld. He should have went into politics.

We begin to see some of Sherlock’s cutting remarks towards Watson in the first chapter, something that was missing in A Study in Scarlet. (I lost count after about five.) Did you notice them, and what was your reaction?

I certainly preferred the Sherlock of "A Study in Scarlet." As I've read "The Valley of Fear," I'm finding that I don't really care for Sherlock very much in this story. And he is quite peripheral to many of the other characters (such as McDonald and White Mason), which didn't seem to be the case in "A Study in Scarlet." But perhaps that is my imagination.

White Mason is a surname, correct? It took me a bit to realize that.

At this point in the novel, how would we describe Mr. Douglas, Mrs. Douglas, and Cecil Barker?

As a unit? It seemed pretty clear that they could almost be described as a single entity rather early on, despite the various theories possible involving a love triangle.

For the Americans on the forum, were you surprised that yet again the case involves Americans?

No. Exotic locations would have been best for entertainement value, even if it was in the western hemisphere rather than the eastern.

Sherlock on Moriarty: “When you have one of the first brains in Europe up against you, and all the powers of darkness at his back, there are infinite possibilities.”

In this story, I really begin to see how the modern iterations of the Holmes persona can sometimes interpret the corresponding Moriarty character as a figment of Holmes' imagination. Moriarty is so elusive (and illusive) and has such a convincing cover identity.

LOL Bunwat! Some very amusing posts here folks:) I think there is a touch of Victorian melodrama about these scenes.

For the Americans on the forum, were you surprised that yet again the case involves Americans?

I think some of the Victorian fascination with American locations was because they had become increasingly familiar with the US due to the first Atlantic Cruises started by Cunard in 1840, which became ever more frequent:-

http://www.lisashea.com/lisabase/crui...

http://www.lisashea.com/lisabase/crui...

Not only were more people holidaying in the US but these liners were ofen in the news, as when Dr Crippen was caught aboard the Montrose, bound for Canada, in 1910.

http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/featur...

BunWat wrote: "Then when they talk about how he couldn't possibly have waded the moat because would certainly have been noticed and reported if he was walking around the district with wet trousers, I almost had to laugh. It seemed so, well charmingly Victorian really, that they couldn't imagine a desperate murderer being willing to take his trousers off to wade away from the scene of the crime. Shoot someone in the face, sure, natch. But wade around in his skivvies? Unimaginable!!"

I had a bit of a chuckle there, too!

Amanda wrote: "Moriarty goes out of his way to portray himself as "an angel of light." He is just a poor mathematics professor who is being persecuted by that eccentric Sherlock Holmes (season 2 of Sherlock does a great job with this theme).

To me, it is very sinister and creepy. It almost appears as if he is using some type of mind-control on the Inspector.

At the very least, Moriarty must have been a master manipulator. His talents were really wasted on the London underworld. He should have went into politics."

Yes, season 2 of the BBC series does a wonderful job with that aspect of Moriarty's scheme. (Cannot wait until we hit episode 3 of season 1 to talk more about Andrew Scott's Moriarty!)

He definitely is a psychopath in some ways. Brilliant and crazy at the same time. But I wonder if Sherlock isn't a bit crazy as well. We can talk about that next week - there is a line of Sherlock's that brings that up a bit.

And laughing - yes, Moriarty would have made a good politicians. Manipulative and corrupt. ;) (And I like politics!)

MadgeUK wrote: "For the Americans on the forum, were you surprised that yet again the case involves Americans?

I think some of the Victorian fascination with American locations was because they had become increas..."

Good points, Jessie and Madge. I am in the minority, because I was surprised. And a bit hurt ... :-) ... I'll explain why next week after everyone has read Part Two.

And a side note, I didn't know Cunard was that old. I don't like to fly so was looking into taking a ship to England next summer. At first, I thought the cost was doable - it was about $1200 which I reasoned was only a little more than flying. And then I realized that the $1200 was only one way. Forgetaboutit. ;) I'll suck it up and fly. I was born at the wrong time - I love trains and ships...

BunWat wrote: "Something that really struck me was how the detectives kept going around and around on how the intruder might have gotten in, and gotten out again, when the drawbridge was up from six pm until afte..."

So true. And that gave me a laugh as well!

(Lynn: If you are doing other parts of the Uk than London, try not to fly into/out of Heathrow, which is a nightmare whether or not the Olympics are on! Very overcrowded and over-capacity.)

You can drown in 2 inches of water, never mind 3ft!

BunWat wrote: "Something that really struck me was how the detectives kept going around and around on how the intruder might have gotten in, and gotten out again, when the drawbridge was up from six pm until afte..."

Yes, the drawbridge is like a Monty Python sketch. You can just imagine a desperate murderer trying to casually stroll into a pub while everyone is staring at his wet pants.

The other thing that struck me as funny was Porlock and his cipher. If Moriarty was paying exboritant salaries to his sidekicks (more than the Prime Minister, according to Holmes) he wasn't getting his money's worth out of poor Porlock.

A secret code is not a secret code when the name of the victim and his address is written in plain English. I never knew why Holmes bothered to decipher the rest. He knew it came from Moriarty. He should have just went over to Scotland Yard and asked if they knew anything about Douglas and Birlstone.

Doyle was writing these things for money and he was notorious for making mistakes. In "The Man with the Twisted Lip" he forgot Watson's first name. He is referred to as James Watson, throughout the story.

Two famous manuals have been mentioned in VofF:-

Bradshaws has been in the news lately and featured my friend's s/h bookshop in Alnwick http://www.barterbooks.co.uk/html/Abo... , which is in a Victorian railway station.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic...

And everyone had a Whitaker's almanac when I was a gel. My grandmother liked its horoscopes:):-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitaker...

Thanks for the links, Madge.

Yes, everyone back then had almanacs (and some people still do today). The almanac and a Bible. :-)

(In the BBC Sherlock, they updated it to the "London: A though Z.)

Don't they have a Satnav on their mobiles?:)

MadgeUK wrote: "Don't they have a Satnav on their mobiles?:)"

What is a Satnav?

LOL. Separated by language yet again:)

That's what I thought.

Well, London: A through Z would give a tourist more information than just location. So I think those types of books are still popular.

Yes, A-Z is just a street index, no more info than that. Almanacs were much more. Perhaps something like the Rough Guide to London might have been a better choice:

http://www.roughguides.com/website/sh...

BunWat wrote: "The A-Z is just maps and indexes of streets.. So it wouldn't really give more info. But there is an A-Z app."

I didn't know that. I just assumed it was a tourist information type book. In the BBC Sherlock's The Blind Banker, Sherlock looks for the words in the code in that book. I guess all the words could be found in street names? I'll have to watch that part of the episode again.

Yes, street names and places of interest on the maps like the Houses of Parliament, St Pauls etc:-

http://www.az.co.uk/?nid=354

I was wondering why Doyle used an ancient home going back to the time of the Crusades for the setting for the murder:

“Three centuries had flowed past the old Manor House, centuries of births and of homecomings, of country dances and of the meetings of fox hunters. Strange that now in its old age this dark business should have cast its shadow upon the venerable walls! And yet those strange, peaked roofs and quaint, overhung gables were a fitting covering to grim and terrible intrigue. As I looked at the deep-set windows and the long sweep of the dull-coloured, water-lapped front, I felt that no more fitting scene could be set for such a tragedy.”

I tried to do some research, but sadly, while there are a lot of scholarly articles, my college doesn't have copies.

Obviously, it allows for certain elements of the case: the moat, the hidden passages, the atmosphere. And it is a fortress to keep out the dangerous outside world.

It also has a lot of history. And Douglas - as we will see in Part Two - certainly has a long history himself.

But the home is where you think a wealthy English gentlemen would reside in, not an American whose source of wealth is uncertain. A man who is out of time and place.

See my post 4 about Birlstone Manor aka Groombridge Place Bunwat. I think you have answered our own question as to why CD used this old house. Also he would have known it because it is near to where he used to live and write. 'The drunken garden was the setting for the Sherlock Holmes book, The Valley of Fear by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, a regular visitor to the garden' (CD was a keen gardener). There are some nice pics of the garden here:-

http://www.destinations-uk.com/garden...

Quite a few wealthy Americans took over our old houses in the period after WWI, when Englishmen could no longer afford the upkeep. Or the Englishmen married wealthy American women:). So I don't see Douglas as being out of time and place. Reclusive perhaps for an American, who were better known for their gregariousness and party giving.

MadgeUK wrote: "Quite a few wealthy Americans took over our old houses in the period after WWI, when Englishmen could no longer afford the upkeep. Or the Englishmen married wealthy American women:). So I don't see Douglas as being out of time and place. Reclusive perhaps for an American, who were better known for their gregariousness and party giving.
"

Yes, true. But it seems wrong. :-)

Why? Quite a few novelists of the period used the idea of Americans taking over our country houses, Wharton for instance.

Valley of fear was another of my favorites when I was a kid, primarily because of the ripping yarn about the Molly maguires in part two. But part one was also riveting, at least the first time through.

Speaking of Moriarty, I can't recall, was it here or in The Final Problem that Doyle gives Watson the opportunity to best Holmes, for achange, in verbal repartee? SH mentions
Moriarty, and then it goes something like this:

JW: "The mastermind of the underworld? As famous among criminals as . . ."

SH: "My blushes, Watson!"

JW: "I was about to say, '. . . as he is unknown to the public."

Bob wrote: "Valley of fear was another of my favorites when I was a kid, primarily because of the ripping yarn about the Molly maguires in part two. But part one was also riveting, at least the first time thr..."

Bob, that was in The Valley of Fear.

Great passage. And Moriarty is not only unknown to the public, but it seems as if he is unknown to Scotland Yard as well.

I can't wait to get to The Final Problem to actual meet Moriarty!