Graphic Novel Reading Group discussion

What was the point in when you stopped reading a certain comic book series and why did you stop reading it? Did you stop reading the Marvel or DC comics or any other comics because you didn't like the direction the stories were going or was it because you got older?

For me, I'm currently not reading any of the newer Marvel Comics because of the directions they are taking the characters. Because there were too many events that happened over the years where the characters didn't really fully develop, I just couldn't take any of the stories seriously because of the lack of character development.

I used to read some Marvel Comics (mainly X-titles) when I was 13/14 years old. After that I went through a period when I didn’t care much for comics, only buying the occasional trade paperback. When I got seriously into comics again (around 6 years ago, I think) super heroes wasn’t really a genre that attracted me much. There is some good stuff but most of it doesn’t look that interesting compared to other types of comics.

Sérgio wrote: "I used to read some Marvel Comics (mainly X-titles) when I was 13/14 years old. After that I went through a period when I didn’t care much for comics, only buying the occasional trade paperback. Wh..."

I agree. I also went through a time where I started getting into other comics that were not superhero focused and therefore, I read less superhero comics now than I did a few years back.

I was a Marvel fan as a kid and diversified widely by the early eighties, into DC as well as many of the emergent independent, ground-level, and underground books. For a while through the eighties it would not be unusual for me to buy 10 or 15 or even more floppies in any given week. Today, I buy almost no ongoing series. I mostly blame Marvel.

I was a huge Spider-Man fan, followed Amazing from the late 1960s, avidly added Marvel Team-Up, then Peter Parker, then Web as they all came online, though by the time that fourth monthly Spidey book came along, I began to feel some fatigue. Then the "event" style stuff started--Secret Wars, etc--and at first I bought in, getting the miniseries and often trying the other books that tied in (good way to get up to 10, 15 or more floppies a week!) but quickly began to notice the diminishing returns. I began to drop off titles I'd been following when the creative team left.

Finally, I cut ties with Marvel entirely, after becoming disenchanted with literally years of crappy comics culminating in the so-called "Clone Saga," emerging from the interminable and wretched Venom ("My Costume My Killer"!) and Carnage garbage. When it became evident to me where the clone story was heading, I wrote to Marvel and told them, "If this is what you do, I'm gone." They did it. I haven't followed a Marvel title since. The last I bought was Amazing Spider-Man 400.

Then I began to drop off the DC books, one by one, and then in larger numbers, again as creators left, or as event-inspired approaches drove me off (e.g. after coming back to Batman for Grant Morrison, I dumped it again when it got into some stupid multi-title ongoing junk about R'as al-Ghul for the milionth time). I haven't followed many ongoing series for a long time; the last long-term DC title I followed was Sandman, though I did try the All-Star books (Morrison's Superman: great; Miller/Lee's Batman and Robin: execrable) and some of Morrison's other stuff, but he's far too hit and miss for me.

When I look at the current crop of superhero books, I am frankly baffled as to what the appeal could possibly be any more, to be blunt and no doubt insulting....

I went through a period where I ditched DC comics for awhile. I've always been more of a Marvel girl, but I used to enjoy reading some DC. I guess when I read, I look for stories I can relate to (yeah I know I'm not a superhero but some superheroes have interesting back stories). I also look for interesting characters and there were some DC characters that I enjoyed but for the most part, they didn't interest me. A lot of people LOVE batman, I actually can't stand him that much. Anyways, a year or so ago I picked back up on reading DC. My favorites are Batgirl, Batwoman and Catwoman. For some reason, their stories are more intriguing than batman's story.

New 52 ended my love affair with dc comics

I once calculated that I've read more than 3,000 superhero comics in my life. I started to realize by the nineties that there was no more surprise left in the genre for me, and I just wasn't interested anymore. Today I have about as much need to keep abreast of the ongoing adventures of Captain America as I do those of Captain Underpants.

That said, I'm not sure that qualifies as "not reading DC comics." DC has published quite a few excellent books outside its licensed characters - Marzi, Stuck Rubber Baby, Understanding Comics, Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, Watchmen, V, 100 Bullets, Incognegro, Cuba: My Revolution, Pride of Baghdad, Revolver, Cant Get No, The Tragical Comedy of Mr. Punch, Will Eisner's books, Kyle Baker's books, The Originals, The Nobody, Welcome to Amerikay, The Fountain, the later editions of American Splendor and several OGNs from Harvey Pekar, etc. I'm sometimes surprised how many of the books on my shelf come through DC.

Marvel has those wonderful OZ books, and.... uh... Maybe one or two other good ones some time during the last three decades. Gotta be at least two, right?

I am bored with the current runs, of course. But there has been an ongoing drop in quality as well. I dislike mega crossovers. I despise ultra-violence. I cannot tolerate idiocy. So it's not just me, DC. It's you.

I think I'm not unique in that I avoided the 'universe' aspects of both companies and focused on individual collections or books which stood firm in their own right, i.e. Watchmen, The Killing Joke, Garth Ennis' Punisher. Graphic or not, a book needs to be well written and I can do without the melodrama and overly convoluted and eternally cyclical narratives of a 'universe.'

I stopped reading both companies almost completely by accident. I used to read about 75% Marvel-25% DC. Then I started reading creator owned comics. Eventually those started eating up all my attention and are now almost all I read.

Recommendation for those tired of supers: Read Invincible by Robert Kirkman if you haven't checked it out already. It's superheroes, but it's equal parts nostalgic and fresh. It plays with the tropes you expect just to turn them on their heads.

Tommy wrote: "I stopped reading both companies almost completely by accident. I used to read about 75% Marvel-25% DC. Then I started reading creator owned comics. Eventually those started eating up all my attent..."

I agree! I always enjoyed reading Invincible because they are always playing with the superhero tropes and manage to turn it into something really interesting and unexpected at the same time!

I stopped reading line wide when the lines started getting soft reboots every two years or so. I don't need a new origin story every time the creative team changes. Now I just cherry pick the titles or creators that interest me

Marcus wrote: "I stopped reading line wide when the lines started getting soft reboots every two years or so. I don't need a new origin story every time the creative team changes. Now I just cherry pick the title..."

I do the same thing. I always find the stories much more interesting when I follow creative teams that I'm interested in.

I mostly read Marvel, and a few indies. I still really love Marvel comics. Yeah, yeah, the events suck, but that's why I don't buy them. Instead, I buy the comics I enjoy, and there's quite a few of them. I pick up around 15-18 Marvel comics a month at my local shop.

I stopped reading DC in the '90s, shortly after the return of Superman. I hadn't been a big DC reader as it was, and I just sorta lost interest. What it comes down to is that I don't like DC's characters. DC's characters tend to be Archetypes, while Marvel's are more like people. Plus, I absolutely hate Batman. And I used to hate Superman, though I was recently convinced otherwise (even if I still don't want to read his books).

I've kinda stopped reading DC after the New 52 reboot, except for Batman. I might pick up more from looking at the changes/additions made by the new Batman editor, Mark Doyle.

I only have the budget to follow one comic at a time. I put down Batgirl New 52 reboot after too many events interrupted what little momentum the story had (budget for one, events are like four, five issues across the universe), and then new villains were resolving in a single issue. Seemed too easy. I dropped it with the vampire month. Dracula... I just can't, Dracula. Get out of superhero comics.

Got to pick up Ms. Marvel instead, perfect timing and I'm much more satisfied. :)

I was a big Marvel fan boy from a very young age, then picked up some DC stuff like The Dark Knight Returns and The Killing Joke. I lost interest in superheroes in the mid-90s but really got into the Vertigo imprint, especially The Preacher. I can't remember the last time I bought anything from Marvel but I still buy some of the Vertigo titles from DC.

These days I read mostly small press stuff with exceptions like The Walking Dead and Hellboy.

Rick wrote: "I was a big Marvel fan boy from a very young age, then picked up some DC stuff like The Dark Knight Returns and The Killing Joke. I lost interest in superheroes in the mid-90s but really got into t..."

I don't read any of the main universe stuff, but because of Vertigo, I technically read DC more than Marvel. Image is my main go-to. I also try to read a lot of webcomics and try to get people into them, because some of these people we can read on the web for free are really killing it, and I'd like to see them being sold in stores.

So I guess I'm the only one here who actually still buys a lot of Marvel stuff. And I don't see much chance of that changing any time soon.

In the beginning (I was probably like 10 or something at the time.) all I read was marvel and hated DC. Then I actually tried DC, and I loved it. So I dropped all my marvel comics and went over to DC.
So, now I mostly read DC, Dark Horse, and Image.
Though, I haven't been reading many comics lately.

I stopped following Marvel because the one series that I still followed, after trying a lot of the Marvel Now series, ended. Superior Spiderman. I read the first in the new series that started when Superior Spiderman ended but it didn't interest me. So I've mostly stopped following Marvel.

Stopped following DC Comics because I burned out on them. Probably around the point where they were having their 12th multi-title story arc since 2010. I think it was around when all the superheroes died, or something. And their alternate universe versions wandered over, noted that they were evil, and that the earth was now theirs.

So, to recap: Stopped reading Marvel because the one series I was still following ended. Stopped reading DC Comics because it was too busy and crowded with events. And, something I just recalled, the creative team for individual titles kept changing on me. Didn't like that.

Lexxi Kitty wrote: "I stopped following Marvel because the one series that I still followed, after trying a lot of the Marvel Now series, ended. Superior Spiderman. I read the first in the new series that started wh..."

Superior Spiderman didn't end.

I'll drop pretty much anything when too many events crowd out the regular story line or they publish too many "special issues" at $4.99 or more.

Before the New 52 with DC I was down to 2 DC titles. Since I didn't like what Marvel was doing during the New 52 I dropped everything except Daredevil and Captain America to pick up DC titles. The New 52 was great during the first year- year and a half because there were few crossovers. I was reading a dozen titles. I'm down to just Wonder Woman and Superman & Wonder Woman now. Wonder Woman is good and it doesn't cross over with other titles. It's its own story. I didn't like issue 1 of Sensation Comics. I'm pretty much hooked on Wonder Woman for the past 5 years. I've collected back into the 60's. I got fascinated with Wonder Woman because she's been reinvented so many times. Since she hasn't been all that popular for a long time, they usually have to have good writing and art to pull people in. Collecting back issues of Wonder Woman brings a constant flow of interesting surprises.

I'm liking a lot of Marvel Now titles right now. Daredevil is good. So is Captain America. I'm liking Savage Hulk because it extends the story of the original X-Men and I love that era of comics. All New X-Men has been good, but the crossovers are annoying. Superior Spiderman was great. Now that Peter Parker is back it's interesting seeing how he's dealing with everything Otto Octavius created while he was Peter/Spiderman.

When I dropped a lot of DC, I started reading a lot of Image comics. There are so many good comics coming from Image these days, I can no longer keep up. They have their own stories with creators completely invested in their creation. It reminds me of what was going on in the 70's at Marvel when Claremont created the New X-Men and Miller revitalized Daredevil. I think we're going to see things of that level coming out of Image. We probably already have, but we're too close to it right now to determine what will endure the way Watchmen and Dark Knight did.

So I guess what stops me from reading is when marketing overtakes story telling.

The last issue of Superior Spiderman involved Peter Parker retaking control of his own body. Next issue was labeled something like . . . hmm . . Amazing Spiderman #1. Yeah, looking at the next issue, it's "The Amazing Spider-Man #1".

I think I even saw one of those super rare things in a comic - "the end".

Whether or not "Superior Spiderman" as a title returns, I don't particularly care. Because the story arc I had been following ended. Doc Ock's gone and we're back to whimpy whiny Peter Parker.

Lexxi Kitty wrote: "The last issue of Superior Spiderman involved Peter Parker retaking control of his own body. Next issue was labeled something like . . . hmm . . Amazing Spiderman #1. Yeah, looking at the next iss..."

They had the finale a few weeks ago in Superior Spiderman 31. This month they launched Edge of Spiderverse in Superior Spiderman 32.

David wrote: "Lexxi Kitty wrote: "The last issue of Superior Spiderman involved Peter Parker retaking control of his own body. Next issue was labeled something like . . . hmm . . Amazing Spiderman #1. Yeah, loo..."

Yeah, but it's back "for a short time" and telling a story that already occurred. In the future (2099).

The story arc ended. That was the only story arc I was following. I wasn't following Superior Foes of Spider-Man, or Astonishing Spider-Man, or The Ultimate Spider-Man, or Avenging Spider-Man, or Superior Spider-Man Team-Up (all of which appeared in 2013, when I started following Superior Spiderman).

Comic companies like killing off characters, and then bringing them back. I understand that. But as far as I'm concerned, Superior Spiderman ended with "the end" at the end of Superior Spiderman 31 (which appeared in April 2014).

Everything else is just filler, like with Superior Spiderman 32 (which appeared August 2014) - telling about things Otto did prior to Spiderman 31. In Otto Octavius' own chronology. Set during the events of Superior Spiderman 19.

For the record, Superior Foes has been awesome. It's hilarious.

Also awesome: Ms. Marvel, Captain Marvel, She-Hulk, Black Widow, Elektra, All-New Ghost Rider, Daredevil, Hawkeye, Rocket Raccoon, Silver Surfer. I singled all these out because, so far, aside from being great books, none of them have done much in the way of crossovers yet. The previous volume of Captain Marvel had an unfortunate Infinity tie-in, but KSD seems disinclined to do anything like that again without very good reason. Admittedly, most of these books are fairly new, but they're still self-contained so far.

Beth Sniffs Books wrote: "On a similar note, I'm overwhelmed as to where to even BEGIN to start reading in either Marvel or DC (although I do have a short list of where to start). I have interest in the stuff from the 60s,..."

As someone who got their start in the mid-70's with Marvel and in the early 80's with DC and collected a lot of back issues when everything was still super cheap, I can only imagine how intimidating the thought of starting with these two companies can be. It sounds overwhelming to me. Your starting points sound excellent, specially the 60's Green Lantern when Denny o'neill and Neal Adams were working on it starting with #76. They did some groundbreaking work on the title. And everything Marvel was doing in the 60's was pretty groundbreaking in comics. Fortunately there's not a lot of crossover going on back then. Don't be afraid to start midstream with the cream of the crop back then. It was a time when they knew people were only buying issues here and there, so each issue contained everything you needed to know to read the current tale. For instance, if you started with Green Lantern 76, you would have no problem following the story line. But I can see if I was starting now, I'd likely start at #1 because it's easy to start there with trades. When I started, even GL #1 was just too expensive for me.

If you're reading other new comics now, you'll probably find, particularly really early Marvel extra wordy and the 60's DC stuff could be pretty silly until the latter part of the decade.

One of my all time favorite runs from that era that would be pretty easy to read because it's short is Teen Titans. It's pretty much self contained. I particularly love the series starting around issue 30 because they introduce a horror element to the series that stayed until the series got canceled with #43. The series picked up again a few years later with a completely different flavor. There's also some psychedelic issues in the run that are cool for that era.

On the Marvel side of things one of my all time favorite short runs is Captain Marvel. There were about 70 issues until his death in The Death Of Captain Marvel graphic novel. Captain Marvel changed drastically in costume and powers over the short run and introduces some iconic characters and great art by Jim Starlin. You still see his impact on the Marvel universe today.

That sense of intimidation is a common attitude, but I think it's approaching comics the wrong way. As far as I'm concerned, all you need to know going into a comic is what the comic itself tells you. There's recap pages to tell you what came before, and usually some introduction of the characters and what they can do. So you read the recap, and then read the comic. If the story's written well, you'll be able to follow along. If you can't follow along, it's poor writing. If there are references you don't get, just think of them as flavour.

Do you remember when you watched the original Star Wars movie, and a reference is made to "the Clone Wars"? Assuming you watched the movie before the prequels came out, that reference meant nothing to you. But it didn't bother you, because you didn't actually need details. It told you that Obi-Wan fought in a war.

Try to take the same attitude when reading comics. If something is referenced, and there's no explanation about why, then it doesn't matter. It's flavour. It's to give a sense of history, but you don't need to know that history, any more than anyone needed to know Sauron's origin to enjoy Lord of the Rings.

And on another note, the Marvel Unlimited service does allow you to read a whole lot of older comics, if you don't mind reading on the computer.

Tiamatty wrote: "That sense of intimidation is a common attitude, but I think it's approaching comics the wrong way. As far as I'm concerned, all you need to know going into a comic is what the comic itself tells y..."

One of the reasons we want to read these old comics and one of the reasons I spent so much time and energy collecting old comics is because of the references to earlier events. At the time I saw the 1st (4th argh!) Star Wars movie, I didn't worry about The Clone Wars because there was no other source for information, but when the 4th (1st arggh!) came out, I saw it, I didn't ignore it. It sucked and i didn't watch the whole thing, but hey, that was my deal.

Back in the 60's, 70's and 80's there was no such thing as the recap page. The first couple of pages caught you up with the story as part of the story. In my opinion, it was a lot less of a pain than a recap page but all they had to do was recap part of one issue. Often recap pages are recapping a whole string of issues these days. And all that summarizing done in the 60's-80's doesn't work so well in a trade. It's kind of like watching a reality show where they repeat what you just saw after the commercial.

I have to admit, the Marvel Unlimited service is enticing. I'm still getting used to reading on my iPad, so that will wait.

Beth Sniffs Books wrote: "David,
Thanks for your thoughtful reply, and yes it is really intimidating. I somehow feel I can't really call myself a comic fan, let alone an aficionado, until I start reading the early Marvel &..."

City On The Edge Of Forever has been awesome so far. I may get the bound version even though I'm collecting the single issues.

Image has gotten impossible to keep up with. I'm having to cut titles I like for titles I liker better. At least their trades are cheap. And so much of it is being optioned for film or TV.If they keep this up they may catch up to Marvel or DC in sales some day.

"One of the reasons we want to read these old comics and one of the reasons I spent so much time and energy collecting old comics is because of the references to earlier events." The references can be used as a springboard of sorts. It mentions a previous battle, and it makes you want to see what happened there. I just don't think readers should feel like they HAVE to have read the previous story to be able to understand the current one, because for the most part, they don't.

"Back in the 60's, 70's and 80's there was no such thing as the recap page." There wasn't a dedicated recap page, but they did dedicate space to explaining what's going on. Same concept. It's just that it was a lot more awkward in the old comics.

"I suppose I like my reading a bit more orderly" Sure, I get that. It's more enjoyable to read a story from start to finish. I've been reading a whole lot of classic Marvel comics over the past few years, mostly because I also feel it's fun to get all that backstory. I'm just saying that, as an example, you don't need to read the two volumes of Ms. Marvel in order to enjoy the current Captain Marvel. Reading them will make some of the references clearer, but they're not "required reading." Even in broader terms, I don't think you need to read House of M in order to understand AvX, even though a lot of people would say you do.

Beth Sniffs Books wrote: "David said: Back in the 60's, 70's and 80's there was no such thing as the recap page. The first couple of pages caught you up with the story as part of the story. In my opinion, it was a lot less..."

Yes, they had to have each issue self contained because most readers wouldn't have gotten the previous issue. It was more than just not being able to get to the store. This was before comic shops existed. Most people were buying their comics on newsstands, in drug stores or grocery stores. The stores often didn't get to choose what they were getting, they'd just get a batch of comics and might not get consecutive issues of some comics.

The only way to be sure of getting every issue of a comic was to subscribe, but for many years a subscription meant your issues would come folded in half in a letter envelope. If you see older issues with a crease down the middle, now you know why. In the 70's they started putting "guaranteed mailed flat" in their ads because no one would subscribe if it meant getting folded comics. The "mailed flat" comics would come in a brown paper bag sleeve, which was open at top and bottom. This was better than being folded, but the comic could slide out and be damaged by the post office even if it didn't slide out. One of mine got shredded by my dog as it came through our mail slot in our front door. I had to wait near the slot and try to beat my dog to the mail after that.

So, you should be able to start in the middle of a run without too much trouble. With 60's and 70's Marvel stories will continue from one issue to the next, but most issues will have a whole story with a cliffhanger leading into the next issue. The next issue will begin with a retelling of that cliffhanger to catch you up with anything you need to know. So, if the library has a trade with Amazing Spiderman 11-20 in it, you should be able to pick it up and not feel like you've missed much. You probably already have a pretty good idea of Spidey's origin from the movies. The current batch of movies are staying reasonably true to the original origins.

Older DC books a lot of times don't even bother with a cliffhanger. The stories are mostly self contained.

An event like The Kree Skrull War which ran in Avengers 89-97 was incredibly long for this era. Most continuing stories from that time might run over 2 or 3 issues at most. Marvel seems to be pretty good at making sure you've got any needed crossover issues when they put together an essentials volume.

I never really got into Marvel and DC. I find them too impeneterable. Where do you start with X-Men or The Avengers? I do pick up the odd book and I will be working my way through the Platinum line but I started my comic collection with Lucifer, and have loved Vertigo books ever since, Sandman, Unwritten and the aforementioned Lucifer being my major loves.
Since initially getting into comics though it is creator owned stuff, specically from Image that has been demanding my attention. Right now Saga, Prophet and East of West are my main obsessions but my pull list gets longer each month.

Samuel wrote: "I never really got into Marvel and DC. I find them too impeneterable. Where do you start with X-Men or The Avengers? I do pick up the odd book and I will be working my way through the Platinum l..."

I agree. Even if they tried to retcon or reboot their lines, it's still difficult to just jump into them because of how much history you have to know about the characters in order to really appreciate them.

You don't need to know ANYTHING about the history of a character. You just pick up an issue (or a trade), read the recap, and start reading. Anything you need to know will be explained either in the recap or in the issue. All you really need to do is accept what's on the page.

Think of it this way: When you first watched Star Wars, did you feel lost because you didn't know the origins of Obi-Wan and Darth Vader and Han Solo? Of course not. The same is true when you watch any movie, or read any book. You just need to go into comics with the same mindset you go into other stories with.

Beth Sniffs Books wrote: "Tiamatty, LOL, I knew you would say that.

I can't speak for everyone else, but for me, just like how you are passionate about jumping in wherever, some of us, myself included, don't want to do t..."

I've been reading comics for almost 40 years and have to agree on this. With new comics, I find with DC and Marvel, I tend to stick with the stand alone stories, like Wonder Woman by Azzarello or how Daredevil was for a long time. I drop even titles I've liked if they get too much into cross-over events, like when Swamp Thing and Animal Man crossed over or when Zero something or other happened in Batman. Or when there's too many titles for a character or superhero group like X-Men or Avengers, I end up buying none of them. And I was a die hard X-men and Avengers fan back in the 80's. And I'm someone who knows pretty much the whole back story of nearly every Marvel character up into the 90s or even the 2000s. I can only imagine what this is like for new readers.

Tiamatty wrote: "Think of it this way: When you first watched Star Wars, did you feel lost because you didn't know the origins of Obi-Wan and Darth Vader and Han Solo?

Of course not. Because Star Wars was designed to be accessible as a one off film and although there was obviously back-story all necessary information was contained in that one film. I wouldn't liken jumping into the Marvel universe as anything like that. Instead I would liken it to picking up the Star Wars New Jedi Order series having not seen the films or read any other Star Wars material. They try to catch you up with what you need to know but it really is an impossible task. How can you be expected to cram decades of story and universe building into a prologue or a recap? My problem is that without this intimate understanding and investment, will I care for the characters enough to buy in to it? Will I even get it? And if not, why bother with the expense and effort when I can jump in at the beginning of something way more easily. That's not to say I won't try things that have been going a while or are older but I do like to see a clean continuity to something before diving in. Sandman is the perfect example; a long continuing story line and plenty of related material but it is absolutely clear you start with Preludes & Nocturnes.

Amen

Samuel wrote: "Tiamatty wrote: "Think of it this way: When you first watched Star Wars, did you feel lost because you didn't know the origins of Obi-Wan and Darth Vader and Han Solo?

Of course not. Because Star..."
But the thing is, you don't NEED the decades of story and universe building. "This is a world with superheroes. This character is a superhero. Here's the character's powers. Go." If the writing is good, then you'll care about the characters in it quickly. If the writing's not good, then knowing all the backstory isn't going to make you more likely to care anyway.

I'll use, as an example, the current run of Captain Marvel, by Kelly Sue DeConnick. Carol Danvers is a character who's been around since the late '60s, and been a superhero since the late '70s. She's been in tons of stories, some good, some bad. She's on her fourth ongoing solo, and she's served long stints as a member of the Avengers. So she must have plenty of complicated backstory, right? Here's what you need to know to enjoy her current series: She has superpowers. She's having space adventures. Boom, that is literally all the backstory you actually need to know. The latest issue had a cameo from Lila Cheney. Who's Lila Cheney? A rock star who can teleport. You know she's a rock star because it's said she's a rock star. You know she can teleport because it's said that she teleports, and she shows she can teleport. You don't need to know that she debuted in 1984 in the New Mutants Annual, where she tried to steal the Earth, and started up a relationship with Cannonball. None of that actually matters. All you need to know is that she's a rock star who can teleport.

People get hung up on "needing" to know all the backstory, but they are choosing to worry about that. The people writing these comics don't actually sweat any of the details they're not actively using.

I feel like comics are the only medium where the audience actively refuses to simply accept what's on the page. To accept that there's stuff that happened that they haven't seen, but which they don't need to see in order to enjoy the story in front of them.

Tiamatty wrote: "Samuel wrote: "Tiamatty wrote: "Think of it this way: When you first watched Star Wars, did you feel lost because you didn't know the origins of Obi-Wan and Darth Vader and Han Solo?

Of course not..."

I guess what you're missing here is, needing to know isn't the point, it's wanting to know and the opportunity is there. When I was a kid reading Marvel Comics in the 70's, I'd be reading along and they'd refer back to something that happened in an earlier issue. Then as the 70's wore on and we got into the 80's, they might refer back to a story arc or a whole bunch of issues. I could read the story and understand what was going on, but it made me curious about what had come before. Back then it was tougher to find back issues, but I did. I'd find them in tag sales and shops on vacation. Today they're available readily, so you can start with Amazing Spiderman #1 and read everything consecutively.

It's like if you were to start watching Breaking Bad or Mad Men. Would you start by watching what ever episode is showing on TV right now, or would you just go and stream it from the beginning? Sure you could easily get a synopsis up to the point where your show begins, they give you that, but why not start at the beginning and enjoy the whole thing?

And I completely disagree about what you said about the authors ignoring what came before. Marvel has long been known for continuity. The reason we have the Essentials series is because they were making them for the writers first, so when they took on a new assignment they could read what came before. When Mark Wade took on Daredevil, he had to deal with Daredevil's all time worst story line, Shadowland, with Matt Murdock's secret identity having been revealed and the destruction of a whole section of New York Daredevil,was responsible for. It looked like there was really nowhere to go from there, but Wade eventually did a riff on some early issues and moved him to California. I'm hoping we may eventually see more of his brother Mike, which he also took from early issues.

Generally, it's not too difficult to go back and read stories that get mentioned in current stories. There are plenty of TPBs out there, along with Essentials and other collections. And, hey, there's always the Marvel Unlimited app.

But that's something different. That's seeing a reference and going, "Oh, hey, that sounds like an interesting story. I should check that out." My objection is to the idea that readers NEED to read those stories in order to enjoy current ones. I reject the very idea that superhero comics are too difficult to get into, that the history is a barrier. It's a perceived barrier, not a real one, and if people are willing to go into Uncanny X-Men Vol. 3 #1 with the same mindset as House of Cards Episode 1, then they'll be fine. They don't need to read AvX to enjoy Uncanny X-Men. They don't need to read the past decade of stories to understand and enjoy the current ones.

Tiamatty wrote: "Generally, it's not too difficult to go back and read stories that get mentioned in current stories. There are plenty of TPBs out there, along with Essentials and other collections. And, hey, there..."

I do agree with you that you don't necessarily have to read older issues of comic books to enjoy the current stories, like for example, I actually enjoyed Joss Whedon's run on Astonishing X-Men without having to read the previous comics to understand what was going on with the characters. The series was easy enough to just jump in and still get into the story without having to read anything from before the events in that series happened.

However, if readers wanted to learn more about the history of the characters and how they started out, then reading older issues can definitely be a treat for readers and you don't necessarily have to read every single older issue of the series. Just the issues that had the most impact on the characters over the years.

The good thing is there are encyclopedias(online and otherwise) on DC and Marvel. Not the same as reading all the old stories, but you can get a good idea of the history of any given character/story.

Not a reader of either company at the moment, but if that's all that is keeping someone away from them, I'd recommend trying this route before deciding to just not read it.

Tommy wrote: "The good thing is there are encyclopedias(online and otherwise) on DC and Marvel. Not the same as reading all the old stories, but you can get a good idea of the history of any given character/stor..."

I definitely need to check out those encyclopedias on the characters!

The reason why I haven't been reading much of Marvel and DC lately (or at least I've only been reading the titles that are not tied into any big event) is because I was getting sick and tired of Marvel and DC having these big events that constantly changes the universe to the point where nothing really stays in tact for long and I wasn't liking any of the current changes going on in the comics.

Ronyell wrote: "I definitely need to check out those encyclopedias on the characters!

The reason why I haven't been reading much of Marvel and DC lately (or at least I've only been reading the titles that are not tied into any big event) is because I was getting sick and tired of Marvel and DC having these big events that constantly changes the universe to the point where nothing really stays in tact for long and I wasn't liking any of the current changes going on in the comics."

Yeah, I highly recommend them. The Marvel ones are awesome, I own 3 different ones and they're just good stuff. Lots of back story, power rankings, relations with other characters, etc.
I think the events and reboots gradually led to me straying from the big 2 as well. Then I started reading creator owned stuff that was all self contained(none of that *Want to know what we're talking about in this scene? Buy these other 3 comics! - J.Q. nonsense) and the continuity stayed intact(usually) and I just loved it.
Also, every time a character dies and comes back, I'm just a little less interested.

Tommy wrote: "Ronyell wrote: "I definitely need to check out those encyclopedias on the characters!

The reason why I haven't been reading much of Marvel and DC lately (or at least I've only been reading the tit..."

I feel the same way about characters dying and coming back to life over and over again. It's like death has lost its meaning in comics and I just want to see a death that actually lasts in DC and Marvel for once.

Ronyell wrote: "Tommy wrote: "Ronyell wrote: "I definitely need to check out those encyclopedias on the characters!

The reason why I haven't been reading much of Marvel and DC lately (or at least I've only been r..."

The death of Captain Marvel at Marvel Comics has lasted. They do resurrect him as a Zombie or have a Skrull imitate him occasionally, but he has never come back to life. It's probably their most momentous death other than Gwen Stacey, who also has never really come back, except as a clone. Captain Marvel is one of the few characters I would have wanted to see come back, if they did it right. His death had a major impact on me because he was one of my all time favorite characters. I still miss that book.

I have to agree, though. Death means nothing in these universes any more. I think it takes away from what superhero comics were about to begin with-- super powered beings who did good in the world and stood up for their convictions successfully no matter what the odds. The constant deaths and resurrections definitely diminish them and render their stories meaningless.

I also lose interest with all the big cross over events. I read all of Superior Spiderman, but I'm thinking about dropping Spiderman all together, now that the big spider event has started. I haven't understood much of what's happening in the main book, I don't care about any of the side titles and they've done way too many $5 books. Such a waste. I dropped Batman for this reason. As I'm writing this, I think I've just finalized that decision. I'll probably take a look at the next reboot. It's a shame because these are two of my favorite characters.

David wrote: "Ronyell wrote: "Tommy wrote: "Ronyell wrote: "I definitely need to check out those encyclopedias on the characters!

The reason why I haven't been reading much of Marvel and DC lately (or at least ..."

Oh yeah, there were a couple of deaths that did stick like Gwen Stacy and Uncle Ben and I'm not sure what they are going to do about the real Jean Grey since she's been gone for years now. But, yeah deaths in comics are becoming ridiculous at this point and it's kind of hard to really feel for the characters if someone dies because you know that that character is going to come back soon.

It's kind of a funny thing. It's almost the opposite of seeing a character die in a novel, which hits you really hard right away. In comics, they die and it's like "meh". Then a year, two years later if they aren't back it's like "Oh, they're staying dead?"

It really has become a useless plot device. I don't know why they bother any more. I think the most momentous one recently was the Death of Archie. That one will stick because the pocket universe where he got married also ended.