Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

So I stumbled across this article today. I have some opinions regarding this, but wanted to share it with all of you to get your own thoughts first. What do you think about this article? Very, very interesting...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/...

That was a very interesting article. Thank you for posting it.

I think he made a lot of excellent points. I've noticed a ton of "people" on Twitter who only tweet ads for companies that will sell you 5,000 followers for Twitter and/or Facebook. I see those and wonder, how many people are desperate enough or just plain stupid enough, to actually pay for that? I'm not even a little tempted, and even if I was, I can't afford it. But those ads are a perfect example of what Mr. Morrison was talking about. The only thing social media is proven to sell, is more social media. It's all a bit depressing really.

Social media is not in itself an effective tool to drive sales directly. This has long been clear to anyone who works in marketing. I've had retweets from some insanely big names, and not had so much as a clickthrough.

I tweet new reviews, and retweet other people's mentions of my book, but I can't be bothered with the whole automated self-promotion thing. I did it in another life when I churned articles for a content farm, and it just doesn't work in the long term, as self-pub authors are beginning to discover.

I tweet silliness, links to blog posts and conversations with online and real life friends. If people can barely be bothered to read all that stuff, why should they buy my book just because I tweet a link to it every 35 minutes?

I haven't really done the whole social media thing. I have a 'blog but hardly use it; I use Twitter to comment on friends' cat pictures. Most of my writing effort has been focused on bringing out the next volume of my story.

In spite of this, in the five months it has been out my book is well on the way to covering production costs, even though I was professionally edited and paid a cover artist.

Then there's this article:-

http://kriswrites.com/2011/04/06/the-...

I did publish a short story on Amazon, just to try out promotion before I hosted a forum at last weekend's Strandhill Summerfest. It downloaded well, and got in the F&SF free downloads top 100 on three Amazon sites. But, just as the Guardian article suggests, it hasn't generated a measureable increase in sales.

However I'm not looking to be Amanda Hocking. I will be quite happy to be a midlist author and earn the sort of amount covered by the Irish Artist's Exemption.

The evidence so far suggests that, when I have enough back-catalogue, this will be an achieveable goal.

Interesting article. Thanks for posting it.

5. Hire a company to create five-star reviews on Amazon for your book

It is so difficult to garner reviews, this bullet point made me ill. Not to mention, it casts a shadow on the 5-star reviews I've earned.

It hasn't got me any business, but I think it's a long term thing. You will not get instant results. I hope this helps. Look for me @ThePondNovel. :)

Sean wrote: "5. Hire a company to create five-star reviews on Amazon for your book

It is so difficult to garner reviews, this bullet point made me ill. Not to mention, it casts a shadow on the 5-star reviews I..."

Considering that indie authors are accused of doing this all of the time, in a most derogatory fashion, I find it appalling that it is an actual recommendation. All it does is taint the honest review process.

Henry, the link you provide in msg #5 is amazing. Wow. She provides more good links. I could spend all day just reading there. Thank you.

John wrote: " Sales in the UK are steadily increasing but US sales remain stubbornly poor...."

My Amazon US sales have all but stopped, nothing now for a couple of weeks, but Amazon UK sales keep on growing. The funny thing is that a couple of months ago my Amazon US sales were about 4-5 times higher than my Amazon UK sales (which seems about right given the population difference).

I know a couple of other non-US authors who have seen their US sales on Amazon collapse in the past few weeks. Maybe it's Olympics led patriotism?

Getting back to marketing, I find the art is not directly promoting your books yourself, but find ways to get other sites, twitter users etc, to do the job for you. For example my Twitter follower list is less than 30, certainly way too small for promotion purposes, but there are a growing number of Twitter accounts which specialise in new book announcements, sharing freebie offers etc. It's much more effective to let them know about your launch/offer/promotion etc. and give them something they want to share with their followers and they do the promotion for you.

Horace wrote: "Henry, the link you provide in msg #5 is amazing. Wow. She provides more good links. I could spend all day just reading there. Thank you."

Not at all. I've been reading Kris Rusch's weblog for the last year, and I won't say she's a must-read for all indie authors. I'd say she's a must-read for all authors, however they are published.

The thing that makes it most interesting for me is the amount of knowledge and experience she has of traditional publishing. She is making money as an indie author, but unlike so many others, she seems to have a good understanding of why she is making money.

Henry wrote: Not at all. I've been reading Kris Ru..."

Thanks for posting that link. Both interesting and encouraging. I've been feeling a bit weighed down and overwhelmed about the whole "online presence" thing - I would much rather just work on my next book... and I love that she says that's the best thing I could do. (Not that it isn't helpful to do author interviews and send out review copies, I've read a lot of books I wouldn't have bought through various read-to-review programs), but it was a good reminder of what my dad told me over 10 years ago: "If you want to be a writer, you need to be WRITING."

It gives statistics and tells the basic logic of what we should know. Yes social media works as long as you put in the work to make it work. I don't think you should pay to promote on Twitter or Facebook I mean if you have the time, money as assets to do so then by all means but I just don't think in the longrun that it works. When it talks about in the beginning that epublishing being connected to social media I would say so yes because people weigh and rely on Facebook, Twitter,etc alot even in this case putting their work into it hoping it'll help them. It's one thing to have someone follow you it's another to have them show interest in your work but it's another to buy and follow your work. If your making money then great but if your not and you invested money in the media to help you make money ehh looks like they got the upper hand. Their are easy basic common ways to promote some work some don't its really about about appealing to the right audience

Traditional publishing is a difficult business. Self-publishing proves to be even more so. I guess the bottom line is that we need to be realistic in our efforts. I know I won't get rich off of selling my book. It's nice to earn some kind of profit because I did put years of time and effort into it, but it's not really about the money. The joy of writing equally comes from others taking the time to read your work. It's such an honor!

Regarding social media, it is a tool. It's not a means in and of itself. Whatever makes us feel the most comfortable or whatever we deem as necessary in promoting our book is what we should do. Personally, I don't have a desire to get a Twitter account, and I don't even know how to market my book's Facebook page correctly. I've debated about spending money to advertise on different sites. I just don't know how I feel about it all. I'm also not a salesperson. As a kid, I was terrible at even getting people to buy candy from me for fundraising efforts. Ha ha! It's way out of my comfort zone to self-promote, but then again, how will anyone read my novel if they don't know it exists? I love my book; but I don't want to spend every waking moment trying to sell it. Kind of drives one crazy to do that, but kudos if you're able to! :o)

I do not have twitter and won't be getting one. I have a fb page for my book and I have had a few sales as a result and a result of goodreads but I really don't know how many. My UK sales were better in the first month but that was because everyone I knew bought one to humour me. US sales we better July but the sales did tail off a little as expected. I have just had a free promo couple of days and got way more downloads than I thought so hopefully if they like it they will tell their friends. Hoping it books potential sales for Book 2 when it is out in the next couple of months. We shall see. I need to do some fliers and local ads too.

I've had a few sales from Twitter in the 2 weeks my book has been out, but mostly Twitter seems to be a scrolling billboard. I know that I don't read 99% of the tweets that are book promotions, unless it's someone who posts other things too. I try to tweet at most once a day about my book. Usually I put a link to a blog, a quote, a question, or an update on the writing process. No sales. I've been steadily increasing in followers, and having some real conversations with people, but it's a numbers game - maybe 1% of the people. So with 700+ followers, that's 7. I guess if you get up to 25k, that pays off. But for me, it's mostly annoying.

I'm still struggling here with Goodreads. I don't find the site very user friendly, although I love books and reading and would like the site even if I wasn't writing. Plus all this kind of stuff takes a lot of time...!

My book doesn't release until November, but I've been building an online presence for about 18 mths. I tweet others links and try to tweet quotes, funny pics, etc. My blog has grown quite a bit and Thriller Thursdays are taking off, which is awesome. I really don't know if they will sell books, though.

And Jennings, I feel the same about Goodreads. It's not user friendly and other than tracking/find new books, I'm not sure how best to use it.

Anyway, for me the key to social media is being yourself:)

And Jennings, I feel the same about Goodreads. It's not user friendly and other than tracking/find new books, I'm not sure how best to use it.

My daughter said they grew faster than they expected, so, for instance, I haven't gotten my "recommendations" in the month or more since registering. And I really need to take some time to explore the forums and such... I like forums, generally, but I'm with you, I'm not sure how to best use it all, either as a reader or a writer!

I like forums as well - I'm just not thrilled with Goodreads interface (if that's the right word). I just don't think the set up is user friendly. But I'm trying to get more involved:)

Stacy wrote: "I like forums as well - I'm just not thrilled with Goodreads interface (if that's the right word). I just don't think the set up is user friendly. But I'm trying to get more involved:)"

If you figure out the secret, let me know!! btw, what's your book about?

I have also been using social media but it seems that very few people are real. There are a lot of tweets that look automatic. Most of those who follow me are other authors rather than people who want to read. They are authors of every genre and not just my own.
Patrick Wensink did everything he could to sell his book but it only became popular after his desist notice became famous http://mashable.com/2012/07/22/jack-d...
I don't know what the secret is but I don't think social media is it.

Hi all, I'm new, so please forgive me if I miss something! I've done my best to catch up with this thread.

I have a Facebook Page, on which I post items relevant to what we (my co-author and I) write about, and through which we share our blog updates.

Twitter, I see as more of a way to make genuine friends and to interact with readers who are passionate about our books. In my experience, readers love to be heard! The friendships have led to offers of blog interviews and guest posts, which will all help (we hope!) with visibility in this overcrowded book world.

For me, my general rule is that if I don't enjoy it (tweeting, or whatever) then I don't do it. That way my passion and personality will be 'genuine' and not forced, and my energy is directed in a way which, if it doesn't bring 'success', at least brings enjoyment. I write better when I am having fun. ;-)

Just my thoughts!

--Joanna (The Lazuli Portals)

The title of this thread kind of gets me..Are you a self promoting author? Well aren't we all? If your an author aren't you going to promote your book in some shape way or form? I mean if you have people, an agent and a good publishing company then I'm sure you could sit back and have them do it for you but I mean who really even does that? Even with all those things its still your work and you'd still wanna promote your work. Now the better question is How well do you self promote.

Kerry wrote: Most of those who follow me are other authors rather than people who want to read. They are authors of every genre and not just my own.

Yes! This is the flaw - I don't know where you find the readers. I've gone to 'big' author's followers and followed readers, but they don't seem to be the ones interested in Twitter. It's frustrating - finding a needle in a haystack!

Jennings wrote: "Stacy wrote: "I like forums as well - I'm just not thrilled with Goodreads interface (if that's the right word). I just don't think the set up is user friendly. But I'm trying to get more involved:..."

I will. My book is about a woman trying to identify and outsmart her stalker after an attempted kidnapping goes wrong. You can read more about it here: http://stacygreenauthor.com/light-and...

What about you?

Ah, scary! Sounds interesting! Mine is a thriller/adventure - an around the world treasure hunt where the good guys are trying to beat the bad guys to the throne of King Solomon. Here's the link: http://tinyurl.com/cutremb (Amazon) or www.jenningswright.com

Hope to "see you" around here! I'm going to be more diligent and figure it all out. :o)

Jennings wrote: "Ah, scary! Sounds interesting! Mine is a thriller/adventure - an around the world treasure hunt where the good guys are trying to beat the bad guys to the throne of King Solomon. Here's the link: h..."

Ooh, your book sounds really good. I love anything with a historical element:)

Stacy wrote: "Jennings wrote: "Ah, scary! Sounds interesting! Mine is a thriller/adventure - an around the world treasure hunt where the good guys are trying to beat the bad guys to the throne of King Solomon. H..."

Thanks! I love to write the historical elements, too - this one has an interweaving story in the 1680s. The sequel, which will be out next month, has a backstory from the Middle Ages to about 1550.

Stacy, I checked out the link you posted. Your book seems really interesting! The information you wrote on the website definitely made me want to read more. And I see you already have a good following on Facebook for when your book comes out. That's great!

Mostly everyone,

I am seeing a few posts where the social media hounds have used and abused a few. I was blessed to go to school with a few geeks who figured out how to generate sales from social media.

I believe some of you could benefit from their work.

The social media professionals that created integrated websites and facebook pages for me: Datacuda.com

If you need a contact, please ask for Rob Layburn. He does the programming and ebook. I don't want to post his number unless someone specifically asks.

Be blessed,
Matthew Akers
http://sonofadam.org

The article is interesting, to say the least, but while he makes some very good points, a lot of his comments are too premature in my opinion. I do agree that with the explosion of social media, many self-publishing authors are dedicating more time to interacting with others as opposed to honing their craft and writing something new. It's an unfortunate residual effect that Facebook, Twitter and other sites have created but it seems that it's here to stay... at least for now.

One point in particular I disagree with is his prognostication that the tech bubble will burst in 18 months. I suppose anything's possible but a year and a half seems way too premature. Are social media sites a fad waiting to erode, washing away? I don't think so and it's due to a point he makes himself, about how humans are attracted to genuine social interaction (ie. personal messages, not product placement ads and shilling).

The proliferation of wi-fi and broadband in the last decade means more users can go online and stay in touch with one another than ever before. The appeal of Facebook exists because as Eisenberg put it in 'The Social Network': it's like having the entire college experience but online.

I have no doubt social media sites have allowed who would otherwise be considered social rejects and loners, to express themselves and at least step one foot out of the shade and into the light. As long as that advantage exists, social media will persist.

Going back however, to the point he made about social media's relative ineffectiveness when it comes to marketing, I think too many people assume quantity = success but that's not always the case. At the end of the day, true talent will almost always trump everything else. Call my mentality old school but I honestly believe that if someone has the talent, someway or another, their work will find success. It's inevitable.

To sum it up, I think most people who dedicate so much time to promotion and less to writing should reconsider adjusting that ratio a bit. People will come flocking in to get a look at your work if it's exceptional. It's just a matter of how long it takes to get there. Just remember that the most important variable is always talent.

Whoa. That went on longer than I hoped. This rambling author is out.

Martin Reed

I have sold a few books because of Twitter and Facebook. Not because I advertise though, but because people have enjoyed my posts or my blogs and then asked about my book. This has mostly happened on twitter though. I have never had any response to actual posts about my book or give always I have offered on there. My advice is be yourself, be courteous and giving (with your retweets, etc) and build a following. If people like you, they will become interested in your book. If they don't know you and you advertise it will mostly just be whit noise, methinks.

Marketing is so time consuming. I wish there was a magic button authors could push that would get readers to at least try a sample of their work. In the absence of alternatives we don't have much choice but to plug along with the social media available to us.

Social media does one thing very good:

ELIMINATES AMAZON.COM 30% FEE

For that alone, please see how we did it at
http://www.sonofadam.org

Thanks to datacuda.com, which did all of the integration, facebook, webpage, paypal.