Nothing But Reading Challenges discussion

This topic is open for discussion of Neverwhere by Neil Gaiman. Be prepared for SPOILERS

Synopsis:
Under the streets of London there's a world most people could never even dream of. A city of monsters and saints, murderers and angels, knights in armour and pale girls in black velvet. This is the city of the people who have fallen between the cracks.

Richard Mayhew, a young businessman, is going to find out more than enough about this other London. A single act of kindness catapults him out of his workday existence and into a world that is at once eerily familiar and utterly bizarre. And a strange destiny awaits him down here, beneath his native city: neverwhere.

This is the author's preferred text. Includes exclusive extra material: Introduction to This Text, An Alltogether Different Prologue, An Interview with Neil Gaiman, Reading-group Discussion Questions

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I already read this book so I wont be joining the discussion but I hope you will all enjoy it. It's a great fantasy novel. :)

I have already read this one too. I think I gave it 3 stars. I thought it OK, but not my favorite. I am curious to see what everyone thinks. :)

I will be joining in on this one. I wanted to read a Neil Gaiman book for sometime. I was thinking of starting with American Gods but it seems Neverwhere is going to be first. :)

Me too!

Was just thinking about reading another Gaiman book, so this is perfect for me!

This is also the first time I will be joining a group discussion about a book since like, 10th grade. Ha! Excited to start being more social about my reading.

Parvathy wrote: "I will be joining in on this one. I wanted to read a Neil Gaiman book for sometime. I was thinking of starting with American Gods but it seems Neverwhere is going to be first. :)"

American Gods was the first Neil Gaiman book I read, and it was pretty good! I would def recommend it.

Now I really want to read it. I will check it out as soon as I finish this one :)

The Graveyard Book was the first book that I read by Neil Gaiman and I did not like it at all. I couldn't even finish it :(

Let me go find my book and get a reading schedule up.

I loved this book when I read it years ago. There was also a fairly faithful TV series made of it (BBC, I think) which I recently bought and enjoyed. Happy reading, folks!

 Date Chapters Pages PPQCs

August 22nd Prologue - 3 1 - 61 Lisarenee
August 23rd 4 - 5 62 - 119 Lisarenee
August 24th 6 - 9 120 - 177
August 25th 10 - 12 178 - 227
August 26th 13 - 16 228 - 287
August 27th 17 - 20 288 - 336

How does this look?

I will be joining in for this one. I have never read a Neil Gaiman book, so I am excited for it!

So how does this work? I assume we want to stay on track with the reading schedule, but then we come back here to discuss what we read? I have very little experience with social reading.

Also, I'm 8 1/2 hours ahead of the East Coast (in Kabul at the moment) so if it looks like I'm posting at odd times, that's why :)

Lucy wrote: "Also, I'm 8 1/2 hours ahead of the East Coast (in Kabul at the moment) so if it looks like I'm posting at odd times, that's why :)"

Hi Lucy. We're glad you can join in.

Basically one or more of us will post questions at some point during the day which relate to the day's reading. Since we are all scattered around the world it might be posted the next day for some or really early in the day for others. We try to stick with the reading schedule so we can discuss what we think of the events, make predictions about what will happen, and tell what we think of the author's writing style, the characters, and anything else that comes to mind. I think it makes reading books more fun. I'm about to start reading so I'll be posting questions later.

Awesome! I'm going to get started in the next 30mins or so too :)

As a first thought- does anyone else love that this girl's name is Door?

Yep.

Questions and Comments for Prologue - Chapter 3

1) As Lucy mentioned, what a fun a different name for a character--Door. She says it's not short for anything it's just her name. From what we've seen does anyone else think there is some significance to this name? The first chapter talked of her trying to open up doors to escape the two men, if we can call them that, that were in pursuit of her.

2) The old woman in the prologue warned Richard to avoid doors. Who knew it would be three years later that her prediction would come true? What do you make of Door and her world? Did anyone have a clue the old woman was talking about a person?

3) First impression of Richard Mayhew? I think he seems a little too easy going, but a nice guy. I liked how he didn't just leave door on the pavement.

4) What the heck is going on with Richard? Why doesn't anyone know him? It's like he's been erased or at least the last few years of his life have been.

5) Do you think Door apologized because she knew what was about to happen to Richard? Do you think she knew his world would be turned upside down?

6) Have you read any of Neil Gaiman's other stories? If so which are your favorites? I've only read the Graveyard book and I liked it because it was so different from all of the other books I've read. How does the beginning of this one compare to the ones you've read?

Sorry guys added another question at the last second.

1) As Lucy mentioned, what a fun a different name for a character--Door. She says it's not short for anything it's just her name. From what we've seen does anyone else think there is some significance to this name? The first chapter talked of her trying to open up doors to escape the two men, if we can call them that, that were in pursuit of her.

The name is really intriguing it gives the whole story a different aura. I think this name is significant because from what we have read so far I am guessing that Door has the ability to open doors or portals to other worlds. When the two men were chasing her she at first she was chased into a dead end after that she faints and Richard finds her.

2) The old woman in the prologue warned Richard to avoid doors. Who knew it would be three years later that her prediction would come true? What do you make of Door and her world? Did anyone have a clue the old woman was talking about a person?

At the time I would not have guessed she was talking about a person. Sure I did think he is going to find some kind of a door that will lead him to some other place, I was thinking more of like a portal and then the "Door" character is introduced followed by more strange characters and dark tunnels I admit I am liking this turn of events very much.

3) First impression of Richard Mayhew? I think he seems a little too easy going, but a nice guy. I liked how he didn't just leave door on the pavement.

He is kind of unbelievable. I like that he didn't leave Door in the state he found her. But I was surprised he didn't call an ambulance to take care of her. Granted, Door asked him not to but she is a stranger he knows nothing about and also he doesn't know the extent of her injuries to decide to take her home without a second thought. Richard agreeing to help Door even after having enough evidence to suggest she is crazy or there is something out of the ordinary going around ( I will be atleast a little bit curious after seeing untrained pigeons and Rats carrying messages)is strange. He acts as though he has seen everything before and nothing could surprise him. What about the strange dream he has about fighting some kind of a monster??

4) What the heck is going on with Richard? Why doesn't anyone know him? It's like he's been erased or at least the last few years of his life have been.

I really confused with this turn of events. Does anyone else feel like Richard is invisible to most but some does see him but do not recognize him.

5) Do you think Door apologized because she knew what was about to happen to Richard? Do you think she knew his world would be turned upside down?

If she did know then I am not much impressed with her character for leaving Richard in this mess after he saved her life and helped her escape. She should have atleast given him a warning about the whole thing not just leave him there looking for answers on his own. May be she was apologising for all the trouble he had to go through to help her.

6) Have you read any of Neil Gaiman's other stories? If so which are your favorites? I've only read the Graveyard book and I liked it because it was so different from all of the other books I've read. How does the beginning of this one compare to the ones you've read?

This is the first Neil Gaiman book I have read and so far I am liking his writing style. From the first sentence itself I was hooked. It is very rarely that a book does that to me. Now I am finding it very difficult to stop as per the reading schedule.

Questions and Comments for Prologue - Chapter 3

1) As Lucy mentioned, what a fun a different name for a character--Door. She says it's not short for anything it's just her name. From what we've seen does anyone else think there is some significance to this name? The first chapter talked of her trying to open up doors to escape the two men, if we can call them that, that were in pursuit of her.

I definitely believe there is a significance to “Door’s” name. It seems as though “doors” and “windows” play a role in travel from one world to the other. In addition, Door seems to be a very prominent person in the world under London. Perhaps she is connected more importantly to travel between the two worlds.

2) The old woman in the prologue warned Richard to avoid doors. Who knew it would be three years later that her prediction would come true? What do you make of Door and her world? Did anyone have a clue the old woman was talking about a person?

In all honesty, I am having a bit of a tough time at this point understanding Door and her world. I am hoping that the next few chapters will clarify it for me. One question I have is the time period in which the alternate world takes place. Initially, I thought the entire novel took place in the past, but obviously, the “real” world is present day. Any thoughts on the time period of the other?

3) First impression of Richard Mayhew? I think he seems a little too easy going, but a nice guy. I liked how he didn't just leave door on the pavement.

I found myself getting extremely annoyed by him during these first few chapters. I agree that he is too easy going, I would describe him as a doormat. I to liked that he grew a spine and refused to leave Door, but the next morning he was right back to his doormat self.

4) What the heck is going on with Richard? Why doesn't anyone know him? It's like he's been erased or at least the last few years of his life have been.

I found this part confusing as well, but as I reflect on it, I think the erasing has more to do with his lack of presence in his life before these events. I wonder if another character would have faced the same thing, for instance, would Jessica have found herself suddenly invisible? Given her personality, I highly doubt it. It will be interesting to see if the “erasing” was a result of the events or his personality.

5) Do you think Door apologized because she knew what was about to happen to Richard? Do you think she knew his world would be turned upside down?

Yes, I do think she knew. She kept information from him as a means of minimizing the effects to his life, but I’m not sure she was clearly aware just how much it would impact him. If she was, why not take him with her?

1) Parvathy said, "The name is really intriguing it gives the whole story a different aura. I think this name is significant because from what we have read so far I am guessing that Door has the ability to open doors or portals to other worlds. When the two men were chasing her she at first she was chased into a dead end after that she faints and Richard finds her."

I agree one minute there was no door and the next she opened one and was surprised the next day to find herself topside.

2) I agree.

3) Parvathy said, "He is kind of unbelievable. I like that he didn't leave Door in the state he found her. But I was surprised he didn't call an ambulance to take care of her. Granted, Door asked him not to but she is a stranger he knows nothing about and also he doesn't know the extent of her injuries to decide to take her home without a second thought. Richard agreeing to help Door even after having enough evidence to suggest she is crazy or there is something out of the ordinary going around ( I will be atleast a little bit curious after seeing untrained pigeons and Rats carrying messages)is strange. He acts as though he has seen everything before and nothing could surprise him. What about the strange dream he has about fighting some kind of a monster??"

I agree and I probably should have mentioned the dream. I wonder how that will come in to play later if at all? Is it a prediction of what is to come or just a dream?

4) Pavarthy said, "I really confused with this turn of events. Does anyone else feel like Richard is invisible to most but some does see him but do not recognize him.

I was too. I wonder if he's fading in and out of time or perhaps it has to do with a time frame. His girl friend did sort of remember him but not their relationship.

5) Very true.

1) Liz said, "I definitely believe there is a significance to “Door’s” name. It seems as though “doors” and “windows” play a role in travel from one world to the other. In addition, Door seems to be a very prominent person in the world under London. Perhaps she is connected more importantly to travel between the two worlds."

That would make sense, hence her name.

2) Liz said, "In all honesty, I am having a bit of a tough time at this point understanding Door and her world. I am hoping that the next few chapters will clarify it for me. One question I have is the time period in which the alternate world takes place. Initially, I thought the entire novel took place in the past, but obviously, the “real” world is present day. Any thoughts on the time period of the other?"

I am too, but from reading one of his previous books I think Gaiman likes to keep us in the dark a bit and then all is revealed later. My guess is it is the same time period as London but we're dealing with a different world. The creature part is what is throwing me at present. The talking to animals makes me wonder. Maybe this is some hidden world within our own?

3) Liz said, "I found myself getting extremely annoyed by him during these first few chapters. I agree that he is too easy going, I would describe him as a doormat. I to liked that he grew a spine and refused to leave Door, but the next morning he was right back to his doormat self."

I thought so too and I do like your usage of the term Doormat. Very fitting. I hope we seem him grow a back bone as the story progresses. That would be fun.

4) Liz said, "I found this part confusing as well, but as I reflect on it, I think the erasing has more to do with his lack of presence in his life before these events. I wonder if another character would have faced the same thing, for instance, would Jessica have found herself suddenly invisible? Given her personality, I highly doubt it. It will be interesting to see if the “erasing” was a result of the events or his personality."

I hadn't thought of that but that would be interesting if that had something to do with it. I like that thought.

1) As Lucy mentioned, what a fun a different name for a character--Door. She says it's not short for anything it's just her name. From what we've seen does anyone else think there is some significance to this name? The first chapter talked of her trying to open up doors to escape the two men, if we can call them that, that were in pursuit of her.

I agree that the name "Door" is signficant. I like Liz's suggestion that perhaps she is connected more importantly to travel between the two worlds.

2) The old woman in the prologue warned Richard to avoid doors. Who knew it would be three years later that her prediction would come true? What do you make of Door and her world? Did anyone have a clue the old woman was talking about a person?

I did not have any clue that the door would be a person as opposed to some kind of physical (or even metaphorical) door. The old lady scene was pretty interesting to me because I could picture it perfectly in my mind, like a movie. This is unusual for me, I don't usually vividly picture books, so I wonder if it is pulling at some memory of something I saw before. Can't place it though. Also, I'm wondering if the umbrella will become significant or useful later on. It's only a subway map, but it's a map nonetheless and maybe the map or his kind act in giving it away will come into play later...

3) First impression of Richard Mayhew? I think he seems a little too easy going, but a nice guy. I liked how he didn't just leave door on the pavement.

I was also annoyed at Richard, but for different reasons. First, I empathized with his girlfriend. What the heck! He is messing up her big night and I think she has every right to be pissed. Maybe she wasn't so nice about ignoring the injured girl on the street, but her suggestion to call an ambulence was perfectly reasonable. Richard carrying the girl off to his apartment was unreasonable. I think he was just grasping at any excuse to get out of the dinner.

I don't know about him being a doormat, but I definitely agree that he is curiously laid back about the weird stuff that happens after he brings the girl home.

4) What the heck is going on with Richard? Why doesn't anyone know him? It's like he's been erased or at least the last few years of his life have been.

Some side effect of having interacted with Door, I guess. I wonder if most people from her world can't see people from his world and vice versa. Although she and the guys chasing her would appear to be an exception. Or maybe not for the guys chasing her, it would depend on how far gone Richard was when he met them.

5) Do you think Door apologized because she knew what was about to happen to Richard? Do you think she knew his world would be turned upside down?

I agree that she knew or at least knew that it was a possibility. I'm annoyed that she just left him to fend for himself, but to give her the benefit of the doubt maybe her future is so dangerous/uncertain that leaving him to figure it out is better for him than if she took him along?

6) Have you read any of Neil Gaiman's other stories? If so which are your favorites? I've only read the Graveyard book and I liked it because it was so different from all of the other books I've read. How does the beginning of this one compare to the ones you've read?

I have read "American Gods", but it was a few years ago. The confusion at the beginning of the book is familiar (who are these gangster guys? what's up with this second world? why can't anyone see Richard? etc) but I'm not sure from where. Incidentally, I don't like type of confusion early on, I'm more of a 'please lay it all out for me' person, but I'm sure it will become more clear later.

I was also reminded of IQ84 how this action of going down under the street is the bridge between two worlds.

One question I have is the time period in which the alternate world takes place. Initially, I thought the entire novel took place in the past, but obviously, the “real” world is present day. Any thoughts on the time period of the other?

Liz, I like your question about the time period. I was wondering about this as well. The book mentions that Door is wearing "dirty velvets, muddy lace", like she raided the "History of Fashion" section at the museum. So at first I thought her world was set in an older time period.

But her language doesn't really match this. She speaks with a modern dialect. Like this: "Please," said Door. "Give me a break". It's definitely modern. (Although on the other hand she has trouble with his name).

So we have old clothes but modern(ish) language. So I think the time period is modern, but maybe she has been living for a long time. Or she's wearing hand-me-downs! I don't know. It seems like her world might be some kind of mash-up of time periods.

Characters:
Door
Richard Mayhew (aka Dick)
Jessica - Richard's fiance
Gary - Richard's friend
Mr. Croup
Mr. Vandemer
Master Longtail of clan Gray
Marquis De Carabas
Lord Rat Speaker
Hunter
Anaesthesia
Varney

Questions for Chapters 4 - 5

7) Well we now know what is going on... "Young man," he said, "understand this: there are two Londons. There's London Above--that's where you lived--and then there's London Below--the Underside--inhabited by the people who fell through the cracks of the world. Now you're one of them." Yikes! But so cool. I love it. What is your reaction?

8) What are Mr. Croup and Mr. Vandemar? Some things remind me of cats and others of vampires or boogey men. What do you think?

9) Did you notice Doors family's names??? Arch, Portico, Portia... Portia doesn't seem to fit the others.

10) What did you think of the 'House without Doors'? How did someone get in? Was it someone they knew?

11) I kind of giggled when Hunter revealed what her true profession was. I have to admit I wondered. What do you think of her? I'm glad she knocked Varney out of the running.

12) Anyone else think the marquis is up to no good?

13) What did you think of Anaesthesia being taken as a toll on the bridge? What did you make of Hunter revealing she'd saved Richard three times on that bridge? Anyone else wondering if Richard's dream from before wasn't one?

14) What did you think of the floating market?

15) So if rats are important, are pigeons too? What do you make of the importance of rats?

16) So now they're on a quest to find an angel named Islington. Should prove interesting.

@Lucy

2) "The old lady scene was pretty interesting to me because I could picture it perfectly in my mind, like a movie. This is unusual for me, I don't usually vividly picture books, so I wonder if it is pulling at some memory of something I saw before. Can't place it though. Also, I'm wondering if the umbrella will become significant or useful later on. It's only a subway map, but it's a map nonetheless and maybe the map or his kind act in giving it away will come into play later...

That would be interesting if the umbrella held some significance later. A lot of authors bring things full circle where one event or item is the connection from the start to the finish. It'll be interesting to see if Gaiman does this.

3)I was also annoyed at Richard, but for different reasons. First, I empathized with his girlfriend. What the heck! He is messing up her big night and I think she has every right to be pissed. Maybe she wasn't so nice about ignoring the injured girl on the street, but her suggestion to call an ambulence was perfectly reasonable. Richard carrying the girl off to his apartment was unreasonable. I think he was just grasping at any excuse to get out of the dinner.

I was a bit surprised that he did this too. I don't think he did it to get out of dinner I think it's in his nature. Look at how he gave away his umbrella to the old lady. He had just been given it as a gift by his friends.

4)Some side effect of having interacted with Door, I guess. I wonder if most people from her world can't see people from his world and vice versa. Although she and the guys chasing her would appear to be an exception. Or maybe not for the guys chasing her, it would depend on how far gone Richard was when he met them.

It does appear the two worlds are separate especially with doors that are hidden between the two.

5) I agree that she knew or at least knew that it was a possibility. I'm annoyed that she just left him to fend for himself, but to give her the benefit of the doubt maybe her future is so dangerous/uncertain that leaving him to figure it out is better for him than if she took him along?

I agree

7) Well we now know what is going on... "Young man," he said, "understand this: there are two Londons. There's London Above--that's where you lived--and then there's London Below--the Underside--inhabited by the people who fell through the cracks of the world. Now you're one of them." Yikes! But so cool. I love it. What is your reaction?

I'm glad that we have a name for the other world now- "London Below". I was a little confused when Anaesthesia (I think) told Richard that you can be part of one world or the other, but never both. Because he clearly had moved from one to another and so had she. So I have to believe that you can go in the other direction too.

8) What are Mr. Croup and Mr. Vandemar? Some things remind me of cats and others of vampires or boogey men. What do you think?
I'm totally had a dream last night where I had figured out Croup and Vendemar. It was an AHA! moment. But it's gone now.

9) Did you notice Doors family's names??? Arch, Portico, Portia... Portia doesn't seem to fit the others.
You are a closer reader than I am- I have to admit that I didn't notice the names at all! I just tried googling 'portia' to see if there is some definition that relates to architecture, but I don't see anything.

10) What did you think of the 'House without Doors'? How did someone get in? Was it someone they knew?
This is a good question. Door mentioned that her family should have been safe there, but clearly they weren't. Maybe they were betrayed somehow, but it doesn't appear that they let the people in the house directly, as all of them were occupied with other tasks when they were murdered. We haven't really talked about their boss yet- maybe their boss has some connection or resources that got them in

11) I kind of giggled when Hunter revealed what her true profession was. I have to admit I wondered. What do you think of her? I'm glad she knocked Varney out of the running.
I like her! I had some dread in my stomach that Varney would be chosen as the bodyguard, so I'm really happy with how that turned out

12) Anyone else think the marquis is up to no good?
I am still giving the marquis the benefit of the doubt. I don't think that his motives are the same as Door's, but we haven't really found out what his motives are yet (except for people owing him big favors) and so I don't want to jump to the conclusion that he is no good.

13) What did you think of Anaesthesia being taken as a toll on the bridge? What did you make of Hunter revealing she'd saved Richard three times on that bridge? Anyone else wondering if Richard's dream from before wasn't one?
Totally abrupt and sad. But I suppose it was an effective way to make us believe in the danger of the place, and not just the danger of Croup and Vandemar. So sad though! I'm very curious about what happened to her and whether we will find out more.

14) What did you think of the floating market?
It's great! Kind of predictable (markets always seem pretty similar) but I like how it moves around the city. And I always get a lot of atmosphere from Market scenes. On an unrelated note, I just finished re-reading The Lies of Locke Lamora, and there is a floating market in that book as well. However that one actually floats on the water.

15) So if rats are important, are pigeons too? What do you make of the importance of rats?
I am totally confused about the rat thing.

16) So now they're on a quest to find an angel named Islington. Should prove interesting.
It's hard not to read ahead!

Just noticed that I only answered part of #13. Here is the rest:

13)What did you make of Hunter revealing she'd saved Richard three times on that bridge? Anyone else wondering if Richard's dream from before wasn't one?
I was like "WOW" when I heard she saved him 3 times. And then I wanted to know what she saved him from, and how. Very impressive!

Richard's dream is a mystery to me. I'm not thinking too hard about it for now.

7) Well we now know what is going on... "Young man," he said, "understand this: there are two Londons. There's London Above--that's where you lived--and then there's London Below--the Underside--inhabited by the people who fell through the cracks of the world. Now you're one of them." Yikes! But so cool. I love it. What is your reaction?

I once read a myth regarding the existence of Underworld believed by the Assyrians, Babylonians and Mesopotamians. They believed that the dead lived on a dusty bleak underworld called "Dark Earth" the entrance to which is through pits, caves or ponds on Earth. When it was said the Richard fell through the crack of the world I felt the story is kind of based on this myth which makes it much more interesting.

8) What are Mr. Croup and Mr. Vandemar? Some things remind me of cats and others of vampires or boogey men. What do you think?

I will bet on boogey men but cats are not far behind considering their interest in rats. I don't think they are Vampires though.

9) Did you notice Doors family's names??? Arch, Portico, Portia... Portia doesn't seem to fit the others.

WOW!!!I never made the connection between the names. Portia the odd one out but what about her brother's and sister's names.

10) What did you think of the 'House without Doors'? How did someone get in? Was it someone they knew?

I like the whole concept of putting together a house from various rooms that have been demolished in the world above and connecting them together while not where each room is located. It feels like Doors entire family has the power to open doors. It must have been someone they knew otherwise I don't think they could have gotten into the house easily.
11) I kind of giggled when Hunter revealed what her true profession was. I have to admit I wondered. What do you think of her? I'm glad she knocked Varney out of the running.

I also had the wrong idea when she said she rented her body but not like Richard though. I kind of thought she was like a medium or something connecting the two worlds. I was thinking Richard would defeat Varney and become Doors bodyguard but after reading about the first two fights I knew there was no chance of that. So I was really glad when Hunter showed up at the right time and I am liking her character very much.
12) Anyone else think the marquis is up to no good?

I don't think he is up to no good but a little bit self serving may be. He is looking for his profit and Richard tagging along might seem like an obstacle to him. More people to jeopardise whatever mission they are on.

13) What did you think of Anaesthesia being taken as a toll on the bridge? What did you make of Hunter revealing she'd saved Richard three times on that bridge? Anyone else wondering if Richard's dream from before wasn't one?

I was really sad when that happened because I liked her character. She seemed like a genuine good person and after everything she went through her end like this felt a bit unfair. The hunter does say she was dead or as good as one. The Richards dream however feels more of like a premonition. I am getting this feeling that the same think is going to happen in reality soon. As for the Hunter saving his life three times I am a bit confused and was surprised when Richard didn't ask her how. I was really impressed by the whole nights bridge thing. The nightmares and darkness was a great touch. I am glad Hunter found Richard before he crossed the bridge on his own but I think if she did know about the bridge taking it toll she should have warned them.

14) What did you think of the floating market?

Has a Harry Potter going into the Diagon Alley feel kind of feel. The whole bartering thing was a nice touch.

15) So if rats are important, are pigeons too? What do you make of the importance of rats?

I don't think pigeons are that important. I didn't read about anyone bowing down to them. May be Rats are so important because they live in the underworld and move through all kind of cracks and crevices but that is just a theory and I am still confused as ever.

16) So now they're on a quest to find an angel named Islington. Should prove interesting.

The whole candle burning and blowing out thing was a good introduction. I was really surprised when Door said he was an Angel. I was thinking of a rat. So they say Door doesn't belong to any barony and feifdom whatever that is and her family was important. Wonder what Door and family is then, knowing that her father was friend with an Angel

I am also confused about the time line. At first I though Richard was living in the 50's or 60's then realized he lived in the modern era but the time in the London below seems to be a mix of everything. There was a talk about Romans, the clothes they wear and things like that.

Parvathy, I think you are right about his dreams being premonitions. Maybe I should go back and read them more closely- I have a bad habit of skimming over dream sequences.

Parvathy said, "I am also confused about the time line. At first I though Richard was living in the 50's or 60's then realized he lived in the modern era but the time in the London below seems to be a mix of everything. There was a talk about Romans, the clothes they wear and things like that.

I think the people who fall through the cracks do so all throughout history and, therefore, it's possible for them to be there. I think time in London Below is altered/skewed and you get various people from different time periods living all at once. Sort of like the house built from rooms that no longer exist that were connected together from different parts of London. Perhaps the Below is like that too?

That is a really good idea. Like there is no particular timeline in the London Below may be time does not exist but in the real world it does and from all the different alternate timelines people are falling into through the crack to the London Below. WOW!!I am really liking this book

@ Lucy
"I totally had a dream last night where I had figured out Croup and Vendemar. It was an AHA! moment. But it's gone now."

Don't you hate it when that happens? lol

You are a closer reader than I am- I have to admit that I didn't notice the names at all! I just tried googling 'portia' to see if there is some definition that relates to architecture, but I don't see anything.

The only thing I can figure is that Portia is the mom, so maybe that would explain it? She wasn't born into the family. I am very curious what the names of her other siblings are. I hope we find out.

This is a good question. Door mentioned that her family should have been safe there, but clearly they weren't. Maybe they were betrayed somehow, but it doesn't appear that they let the people in the house directly, as all of them were occupied with other tasks when they were murdered. We haven't really talked about their boss yet- maybe their boss has some connection or resources that got them in

I wonder if we should be googling names and seeing if any others deal with components of houses and buildings?

FYI Portia is the mechant's daughter in the Merchant of Venice and the Marquis of Carabas is a character in Puss in Boots. Hmmmm...Could either of these prove significant?

13)Totally abrupt and sad. But I suppose it was an effective way to make us believe in the danger of the place, and not just the danger of Croup and Vandemar. So sad though! I'm very curious about what happened to her and whether we will find out more.

I hope we find out more to, but I fear this was done purely for affect.

15)I am totally confused about the rat thing.
Me too. I wonder if it had something to do with the fact you usually see them both below and above so perhaps the hold power because they can live in both worlds? I kind of got a Nutcracker vibe from it. A very faint one.

A very faint nutcracker vibe... ha! i like it

@ Parvathy

7) I once read a myth regarding the existence of Underworld believed by the Assyrians, Babylonians and Mesopotamians. They believed that the dead lived on a dusty bleak underworld called "Dark Earth" the entrance to which is through pits, caves or ponds on Earth. When it was said the Richard fell through the crack of the world I felt the story is kind of based on this myth which makes it much more interesting.

That would be interesting if there is some connection.

8) I will bet on boogey men but cats are not far behind considering their interest in rats. I don't think they are Vampires though.

I think they're like vampires, but not truly. It will be interesting if we find out what they truly are. I wonder if there is a name?


9) WOW!!!I never made the connection between the names. Portia the odd one out but what about her brother's and sister's names.

I would love to know the others as well.

10) I like the whole concept of putting together a house from various rooms that have been demolished in the world above and connecting them together while not where each room is located. It feels like Doors entire family has the power to open doors. It must have been someone they knew otherwise I don't think they could have gotten into the house easily.

Gaiman has a very active imagination.

11) I also had the wrong idea when she said she rented her body but not like Richard though. I kind of thought she was like a medium or something connecting the two worlds. I was thinking Richard would defeat Varney and become Doors bodyguard but after reading about the first two fights I knew there was no chance of that. So I was really glad when Hunter showed up at the right time and I am liking her character very much.

I also envisioned Richard somehow becoming Door's bodyguard, but I don't think he has it in him. Maybe by the end I'll change my tune.

13) I was really sad when that happened because I liked her character. She seemed like a genuine good person and after everything she went through her end like this felt a bit unfair. The hunter does say she was dead or as good as one. The Richards dream however feels more of like a premonition. I am getting this feeling that the same think is going to happen in reality soon. As for the Hunter saving his life three times I am a bit confused and was surprised when Richard didn't ask her how. I was really impressed by the whole nights bridge thing. The nightmares and darkness was a great touch. I am glad Hunter found Richard before he crossed the bridge on his own but I think if she did know about the bridge taking it toll she should have warned them.

I wonder if they wouldn't have tried to cross it if they'd known?

15) I don't think pigeons are that important. I didn't read about anyone bowing down to them. May be Rats are so important because they live in the underworld and move through all kind of cracks and crevices but that is just a theory and I am still confused as ever.

You may be right.

16) The whole candle burning and blowing out thing was a good introduction. I was really surprised when Door said he was an Angel. I was thinking of a rat. So they say Door doesn't belong to any barony and feifdom whatever that is and her family was important. Wonder what Door and family is then, knowing that her father was friend with an Angel

I was surprised too. An Angel seems so out of place, but I'll probably be eating those words before long. :)

Questions and Comments for Chapters 6 - 9

17) So a train car is home for the Earl's Court. Interesting. I thought they were using the train to get to a location. I never considered the train car would be the destination. What did you make of the black shadow tentacle monster that grabbed Richard?

18) So Mr. Croup and Mr Vandemar are assassins that have been killing people for hundreds of years.

19) The Earl's real domain is that of Things lost, Things forgotten. He does seem to forget things so that seems appropriate. Did you notice they refer to him as the Earl but don't use a name? Has it also been forgotten?

20) So now there is a great Beast of London that disappeared into the sewers. Wonder how that will play into the story?

21) So there is a chance Anaesthesia may be alive.

22) Whoa! I didn't like the Marquis of Carabus, but I didn't expect to be the one to hire Mr. Croup and Mr Vandemar. Did you see that one coming?

23) What did you think of the meeting between Richard and Jessica? I chuckled when Richard started singing 'I'm A Believer'. I totally had forgotten about the Angel exhibit Jessica was creating for her boss.

24) Did you notice Door said her family had the skill to open things? I think we suspected as much.

25) Why do you suppose Jessica hasn't completely forgotten Richard?

17) So a train car is home for the Earl's Court. Interesting. I thought they were using the train to get to a location. I never considered the train car would be the destination. What did you make of the black shadow tentacle monster that grabbed Richard?

Me too, I also thought they were going to some other strange location to see the Earl. The black shadow tentacle monster may be some thing like the darkness in the night bridge. It may be absolute darkness that sucks even the color out of things. Since most accidents happen in that region can't help wonder if the monster occasionally takes people from London above also.

18) So Mr. Croup and Mr Vandemar are assassins that have been killing people for hundreds of years.

I was surprised when they said they took care of Troy and their recent one was of torturing and killing
people in Tuscany. Makes me wonder does the London below extends to other parts of the world or all the mythical areas are part of it

19) The Earl's real domain is that of Things lost, Things forgotten. He does seem to forget things so that seems appropriate. Did you notice they refer to him as the Earl but don't use a name? Has it also been forgotten?

I thought any thing lost or forgotten ends up in London Below and that is the only way to get there except for certain exceptions like Richard. May be the Earl was also a real Earl once who lived above but was forgotten by his people and ended up in the London below. They don't know his name may be because he was always an Earl and nothing else

20) So now there is a great Beast of London that disappeared into the sewers. Wonder how that will play into the story?

I think it is the same beast that Richard fights in his dreams. Marquis however is right in saying that it does feel like an alligator in the sewer story

21) So there is a chance Anaesthesia may be alive.

Keeping my fingers crossed. I wish she makes an appearance in the end sometime when Richard and Door really need her.

22) Whoa! I didn't like the Marquis of Carabus, but I didn't expect to be the one to hire Mr. Croup and Mr Vandemar. Did you see that one coming?

No, as I said earlier I thought he was self serving and was in it for some kind of profit but I never thought he was the master mind behind the whole thing. That would explain the change in his instruction from kill to kidnap to scare Door. Because once he got to know her he didn't want to kill her. But I can't shake of this feeling that he is going to pull some "For the Greater Good" kind of story line. I just can't seem to peg him as a completely villainous character just yet.

23) What did you think of the meeting between Richard and Jessica? I chuckled when Richard started singing 'I'm A Believer'. I totally had forgotten about the Angel exhibit Jessica was creating for her boss.

I wasn't paying attention to anything Jessica was saying at the beginning of the book so when she was suddenly reintroduced in to the storyline I was surprised. What surprised me more was that she kind of recognised Richard. I didn't think she had any real feelings for Richard and her reaction is showing something along that line. I never expected Richard to confront her with the truth. I thought he would make some excuses and divert her attention from him.

24) Did you notice Door said her family had the skill to open things? I think we suspected as much.

Yes, I am surprised Richard didn't suspect it earlier.

25) Why do you suppose Jessica hasn't completely forgotten Richard?

She did have some real feeling for him. I think

I am curious about the fact that Richard was able to see Door and remember about her the first time when she was injured without her drawing any attention to herself. Even Door seems confused by this. Does this make Richard special? or Does he and Door have some kind of a connection?

17) So a train car is home for the Earl's Court. Interesting. I thought they were using the train to get to a location. I never considered the train car would be the destination. What did you make of the black shadow tentacle monster that grabbed Richard?
I didn't imagine it would be in the train car either, but remember the room behind the throne? Maybe I need to re-read it, but I didn't get the sense that the room was in a train car, rather that it was a real room. So maybe the train car is simply a mechanism that allows the earl to move his fancy room around.

As for the gap monsters, I thought it was a great touch!

18) So Mr. Croup and Mr Vandemar are assassins that have been killing people for hundreds of years.
When I learned this and some of the examples of where they have killed, I immediately began to wonder if all of time and location is connected somehow through London below, like how Parvathy mentioned.

19) The Earl's real domain is that of Things lost, Things forgotten. He does seem to forget things so that seems appropriate. Did you notice they refer to him as the Earl but don't use a name? Has it also been forgotten?
, Yes, I think he has been forgotten

20) So now there is a great Beast of London that disappeared into the sewers. Wonder how that will play into the story?
I definitely think it is the same one from Richard's dream! Although I can't begin to fathom how it connects with anything else in the story so far

21) So there is a chance Anaesthesia may be alive.
We'll see!

22) Whoa! I didn't like the Marquis of Carabus, but I didn't expect to be the one to hire Mr. Croup and Mr Vandemar. Did you see that one coming?
No, I didn't see it coming at all. However I was wondering if the Marquis was trying to find an opportunity to separate from Door and the others. Especially in the train car I got the feeling that he wanted to get to some other business and that's why he was leaving to easily. Now I want to know why he killed her family! And also, what is in that box?

23) What did you think of the meeting between Richard and Jessica? I chuckled when Richard started singing 'I'm A Believer'. I totally had forgotten about the Angel exhibit Jessica was creating for her boss.
Like Parvathy, I was surprised that he actually engaged her and mentioned their relationship. I had also forgotten that her exhibit was about Angels. I'm glad she came back into the story, and I'm curious if we will see more of her

24) Did you notice Door said her family had the skill to open things? I think we suspected as much.
Yes, it was clear that Door's family was special. Now I'm wondering if they were wanted dead because of their talent, or if they were wanted dead because of her father's political views.

25) Why do you suppose Jessica hasn't completely forgotten Richard?
She loves him! And I think she is smart enough to recognize that something doesn't add up.

Parvathy wrote: "I am curious about the fact that Richard was able to see Door and remember about her the first time when she was injured without her drawing any attention to herself. Even Door seems confused by th..."

I am also curious about this. As well with the old lady from the beginning of the book (I know, I know. I keep coming back to her). I can't help but wonder if she was from London (or Scotland?) Below as well, and he was able to see her. Maybe he has some innate gift. MAYBE HE IS A DOOR HIMSELF. Whatever the case, I hope that we find out more about it.

Yes, I am curious about the old lady to. Wonder why she thought Richard was homeless at first even though he just came out of the party and was dressed for it. Also she did say something about Richard's kind heart which might get him in and out of trouble. With Door it got him into trouble, who knows what will happen later on. But one thing is for certain Richard is not as ordinary as he may seem.

FYI, I live in Tampa, Florida and we are going to have a major storm come through here either tropical or hurricane. If I don't post tomorrow we probably lost power. I'm going to start reading and will post later if we still have power. Right now we are getting tons of rain.

Questions and Comments for Chapters 10 - 12

25) So if I have it right, Doors family may have been from Atlantis? Or was it just the wine?


26) Pavarthy, you called it when you asked, "Does this make Richard special?" It appears he is special. At least special enough to pass a test many don't survive. Serpentine called him Door's hero. Interesting.

27) I was wrong about Marquis de Carrabas. He is not the one who hired the bad guys. Did you notice the reference to the fairy tale? He must have picked his name from the fairy tale Puss n Boots. I wish I could remember the character better from the story.

28) Door has killed many a terrible beast. Looks like she's got her sights set on the Beast of London. If she's so fierce, why does she need a body guard?

29) Are Door and Richard going to become romantically involved? I didn't thing this story would have a romance, but now I'm wondering.

30) Mr. Croup is displaying serpent type traits.

31) It seems like Richard dreamed of the Beast of London. Door dreamed of her father and his journal and him teaching her to unlock doors. Hunter, dreamed of killing some snake like beast. Does anyone see any significance in these? I'm not sure.

32) Who is the Old Bailey exactly? So the box the marquis de carabas gave to the Old Bailey lets him know when he's in trouble?

33) The time line question is finally answered: "There are little pockets of old time in London, where things and places stay the same, like bubbles in amber," she explained. "There's a lot of time in London, and it has to go somewhere--it doesn't all get used up at once.

34) What did you think of the London Fog?

35) Why do you think Richard survived the Ordeal? Is it because he's so easy going or just not very guilible?

36) What did you think of the Black Friars and their tests?

37) Parvathy asked in regards to the old lady at the beginning of the book, "Wonder why she thought Richard was homeless at first even though he just came out of the party and was dressed for it." I thought it was because they said he looked like he had a rumpled just gotten out of bed look to him, however, after this scene I think perhaps she foresaw more than I gave her credit for.

38) Do you think someone will save the marquis?

Parvathy wrote: "Yes, I am curious about the old lady to. Wonder why she thought Richard was homeless at first even though he just came out of the party and was dressed for it. Also she did say something about Rich..."

I forgot about her thinking that he was homeless! I think we are onto something here.

Questions and Comments for Chapters 10 - 12

25) So if I have it right, Doors family may have been from Atlantis? Or was it just the wine?
I didn't get the impression that her family was from Atlantis. Just the wine.

26) Pavarthy, you called it when you asked, "Does this make Richard special?" It appears he is special. At least special enough to pass a test many don't survive. Serpentine called him Door's hero. Interesting.
Yes, he does appear to be special. I thought it was funny that Door and Hunter had like zero faith in him going into the Ordeal

27) I was wrong about Marquis de Carrabas. He is not the one who hired the bad guys. Did you notice the reference to the fairy tale? He must have picked his name from the fairy tale Puss n Boots. I wish I could remember the character better from the story.
Easy mistake! At the end of that chapter I was debating to myself what it meant that the Marquis was visiting with those guys, and boss seemed to fit. Although I'm pretty happy he's not the boss- I had higher hopes for him.

Unfortunately I don't know anything about puss n boots

28) Door has killed many a terrible beast. Looks like she's got her sights set on the Beast of London. If she's so fierce, why does she need a body guard?
I think you mean Hunter has killed many a terrible beast. I thought that Door's motivation was finding who killed her parents, Richards was going home, and Hunter's was killing the beast. Did I read this wrong?

29) Are Door and Richard going to become romantically involved? I didn't thing this story would have a romance, but now I'm wondering.
I was a little thrown by the romance thing, especially because we still don't have a clear age on Door (but we know she has only had sips of her dad's wine before). I don't think they will end up together, but I've been wrong before.

30) Mr. Croup is displaying serpent type traits.
Yeah, it's hard to pin them down. And what was with that scene about eating the little (terra cotta?) animal. WEIRD!

31) It seems like Richard dreamed of the Beast of London. Door dreamed of her father and his journal and him teaching her to unlock doors. Hunter, dreamed of killing some snake like beast. Does anyone see any significance in these? I'm not sure.
I have a prediction. I think that Hunter will become disabled or separated from the group, and Richard will have to kill the beast on his own. And he will be a HERO

32) Who is the Old Bailey exactly? So the box the marquis de carabas gave to the Old Bailey lets him know when he's in trouble?
I am so looking forward to seeing what is in the box. Is it going to rescue the Marquis?

I've been interested in the name "Old Bailey" from the start. Where does he get this name from, and does is signify some aspact of his personality? So far he seems pretty unremarkable.

33) The time line question is finally answered: "There are little pockets of old time in London, where things and places stay the same, like bubbles in amber," she explained. "There's a lot of time in London, and it has to go somewhere--it doesn't all get used up at once.
What about the people that get pulled down below? Do they live abnormally long lives after that? Are they able to procreate in London below? It seems like Door was born there, rather than being pulled down with her family. But then again, Door's family is special.

34) What did you think of the London Fog?
I did think it was interesting that the London Fog persists in London below

35) Why do you think Richard survived the Ordeal? Is it because he's so easy going or just not very guilible?
I thought we decided that he is SPECIAL- ha! I don't that that being easy going is necessarily it. we have already observed that his transition from London below was pretty smooth, and he has been taking things more and more at face value. But if this were all there were to his personality then wouldn't he take at face value that he is crazy and the world is telling him to kill himself?

Not gullible? Maybe. Or maybe it's FATE. Or his force of will (or something).

Also, I wonder if the Ordeal is the same for everyone. For Richard it made sense as a trial- of course he would be susceptible to the idea that he is actually homeless and crazy. But Door? Has she ever even lived in London above? Would that scenario make sense for her? Or if she went to the Ordeal would it be different?

36) What did you think of the Black Friars and their tests?
I was like "HMMM... WHEN did this turn into a fairy tale?" It was effective at forcing Richard into the Ordeal, but I did think it was a little weird.

37) Parvathy asked in regards to the old lady at the beginning of the book, "Wonder why she thought Richard was homeless at first even though he just came out of the party and was dressed for it." I thought it was because they said he looked like he had a rumpled just gotten out of bed look to him, however, after this scene I think perhaps she foresaw more than I gave her credit for.
I am going with the theory that she is from Scotland Below, or had at least spent time in Scotland Below, and because they could see each other so well, she assumed they were on the same plane of existance. And she will RESCUE THEM ALL with her umbrella map. I'm just making wild guesses here

38) Do you think someone will save the marquis?
YES! I think so. But if not, I do have some hope that his death will turn out to be helpful to the overall quest. Something to do with the box, perhaps.