The Sword and Laser discussion
This topic is about
Assassin's Apprentice
2012 Reads
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AA: Don't click unless you are finished - Spoilers.
I was sick today I finished it practically all in one day. I wasn't expecting to like this book actually. I don't tend to like books about assassins. However this is more about a personal story with political intrigue. Ending up really liking both Fitzgerald and Chad.
I loved the book. Period. The Character Development was brilliant and Hobb didn't finish yet! I even started the second book!
Very much enjoyed it. As soon as I finished, I wanted to go on immediately to the next in the series. Great pick, Veronica!
I read this series several years ago, along with the Mad Ship & Dragon River chronicles. I enjoyed all of them, & was terribly excited by the fact that they all seem to be based in the same world. This series made me the most uncomfortable. I was never quite okay with the world of Fitz, or with Fitz himself. Still enjoyed it, but I much prefer re-reading the other two series.
What made you not okay with Fitz?
Like I said, it's been a few years since I read it. If I recall correctly, it was the blithe way he accepted things & jobs that I personally find unacceptable. It may have to do with the fact that he's an assassin, so of course his world view is skewed from mine. I also tried to remember that his upbringing & situation were unorthodox, at the least. I also think it had to do with the fact that he seems to be written as such a soft-spoken, almost timid person, that I had some trouble reconciling his personality with his actions.If I wasn't getting ready for GenCon, I'd go find the book & read it again so I could pull up specifics. Maybe after that...
I never really found fitz to be a timid person. even when he was 12-16 in this book. Quiet yes, but he doesn't let people walk over him.
When I really get into a book, I tend to stay up too late because I don't want to put it down. (Like most people?) This hasn't happened too often recently. Perhaps I'm getting jaded or cynical or something. I found myself staying up too late to finish this book though. I liked it.
My favorite character by the end was Verity. Which was not what I expected throughout the first half of the book. He started off as a filler character for me. He was nice to Fitz, but not much else seemed to be there. Perhaps it was Fitz' limited interactions with him that led to me finding him shallow at first. But after his dealings with the raiders and the whole wedding fiasco he gained new depth and of all the characters, he was the one I wanted to meet.As for Fitz, he did seem to struggle with things I wouldn't have. But he was in his preteen and teen years. When I was that age, my biggest dilemmas were when my mom made me clean up my room or wouldn't let me stay out as late as I wanted to. It seemed realistic that he would be confused about what to do in even basic moral dilemmas since he was left to his own devices. He spent most of his youth wandering around, hanging out with the betters by the wharf, and then went under the tutelage of an assassin. Probably not the best way to give someone a solid foundation of right and wrong. Keeping this in mind, I found his navigating of the complex politics of the world he was thrown in to be admirable.
What were these dilemmas?
The whole intrigue with the wedding comes to mind. Just blindly follow Regal's instructions or trust Rurisk. Just the job of being an assassin and killing others without question. (like the duke who abused that poor girl and got her pregnant). I would say those he killed, like the Forged and the Duke deserved it. But it would be a difficult thing to agree to and then carry out. As I said, considering his age and the way he was brought up, he handled all of these situations very well. This is why I do not find him timid. Any timidity that came across may have had to do with the confusion and uncertainty surrounding his job and the complex world he was thrown into.
I liked Assassin's Apprentice. It's well-made, above average fantasy, thankfully without (explicit) zombies or vampires but also without memorable highlights.The only thing I didn't enjoy was the climactic battle. The description was too exaggerated for my liking.
It didn't make me want to pick up the next book in the trilogy, maybe because it felt a bit too generic.
I read Assassin's Apprentice about a year ago and I have trouble remembering the details. I keep confusing Fitz with Edeard from Peter F. Hamilton's Void trilogy. Even though Edeard was just a character in the dreams of one of the protagonist, his coming of age story was much more captivating and memorable.
It just gets better with each book. The fist one, IMO, is not the best of the trilogy (and its good).
Skippen wrote: "It just gets better with each book. The fist one, IMO, is not the best of the trilogy (and its good)."The second audiobook is 29 hrs and 21 mins long. I rather catch up on four books by Isaac Asimov or Philip K. Dick in the same time. :)
I can understand that. Hobb, in the last year or so, has become easily one of my favorite authors. I am currently working on the third book in the trilogy, and so far, so good. I have also read The Bingtown Traders saga, which I thoroughly enjoyed (though very long).
Michael wrote: "I liked Assassin's Apprentice. It's well-made, above average fantasy, thankfully without zombies or vampires but also without memorable highlights.The only thing I didn't enjoy was the climactic b..."
I sort of considered the Forged as zombies. Yeah, they were not technical living-dead zombies, but very, very close IMO.
Misstessamelissa wrote: "I sort of considered the Forged as zombies. Yeah, they were not technical living-dead zombies, but very, very close IMO. "I agree, they are close to zombies, but I give her credit for not calling them zombies as opposed to James S.A. Corey and their "vomit zombies".
In James SA Corey, it's set in the future, where the term zombie has already been coined. In this setting the use of the word zombie would be a little off base. They were very close to the idea of zombies. But it was creepier to me because they weren't some kind of undead monster. They still had all the appearance of their loved ones, but they weren't. Very eerie. I actually enjoyed the final battle scene. I felt it really helped to develop Verity as a powerful character. For me he started weak, then his strength as he battles the raiders with his skill is revealed. But that final battle reveals him as far more powerful than I had originally thought. It was those final scenes that made him one of my favorite characters. It was also the first time I felt that Fitz didn't allow himself to be just a pawn but actually tried to make a stand.
Finished the trilogy. First two were good with just a few faults. Third book pretty much assured me that I wouldn't read another Robin Hobb book again.
Sergio wrote "Third book pretty much assured me that I wouldn't read another Robin Hobb book again." While I wouldn't agree with this statement I do feel the third one was too bloated and lost its way. The first one however was excellent. Great characters and a fantastic story that moved a long at a gentle yet compelling pace. I enjoyed it just as much now as I did ten years ago.
I have to admit I really enjoyed the book up until the (view spoiler) though most of the book was stuff happening to Fitz rather than his own initiative. However, (view spoiler)
That said, I loved the writing and the world building. I really liked the idea of The Forged and didn't think of them as zombies. To me, zombies go about chewing up brains, and I thought that the forged, who (view spoiler) to be quite refreshing. I thought they would factor in the story more, but alas, were just a sideshow.
Mike wrote: "When I really get into a book, I tend to stay up too late because I don't want to put it down. (Like most people?) This hasn't happened too often recently. Perhaps I'm getting jaded or cynical or ..."I completly agree. It has been a long time since I have had a book that is hard to put down. With this book Hobb found a way to tell a great story and completly suck me in without a big epic quest and cliff hangers at every turn.
Valerie wrote: "He spent most of his youth wandering around, hanging out with the betters by the wharf, and then went under the tutelage of an assassin. Probably not the best way to give someone a solid foundation of right and wrong."Chad and Shrewd were using the same techniques of grooming as other adults who want children to do distasteful things - sell drugs, have sex, steal things....
I like the seamless shifting between thoughts when Fitz is mind sharing. For example in the beginning, before we are introduced to the Wit, Fitz experiences heightened animal senses which go unexplained until some paragraphs later. Or he appears to be asking or answering his own questions before we are aware or as we become aware he is mind sharing.I'm almost done with book 2 and I think it is a better book in many ways. I'm still enjoying Hobb's portrayal of a male psyche, but my very male alter ego(not to say that I have any female alter egos) is missing the detailed "stylized violence" such as Steven Erikson is good at in his Malazan series. Or the very realistic and visceral violence and detailed battle tactics such as Bernard Cornwell's Warlord Series or Saxon series.
But the intrigue and characterization are top notch, more so even in the second book - I'm regularly outraged, frustrated and generally wanting to wrap my hands around certain evil characters' necks and yell "This is how you deal with murderous traitorous scum, Fitz!" I probably wouldn't last all that long in Fitz' world.
Adrienne wrote: "Well, [just wait til the . . ."Oooh, I've just started that bit! At least Fitz has expanded his hand to hand technique to include ax fighting. The thing about ax fighting though is, you actually need an ax.
Michael wrote: "Misstessamelissa wrote: "I sort of considered the Forged as zombies. Yeah, they were not technical living-dead zombies, but very, very close IMO. "I agree, they are close to zombies, but I give he..."
You guys had to go and say the zed word.
I thought of them as zombies. They aren't the Romero zombies. These zombies are lacking consciousness and self-awareness, but are able to respond to stimuli. Kind of like a teenager on a cell phone.
I liked the book overall but i felt that halfway through it really fell of the rails. The introduction of Patience was unnecessary and felt like it was completely wasted. I usually like stories in which some sort of training is going on, but in the middle of the book it seemed to gloss over everything as if it could explain away the learning with a few sentences. All that being said I really enjoyed the last part of the book, It compelled me enough that I am going to pick up the second book, even though I had been reasonably sure throughout the rest of it that I would not.
I liked the book also and Verity was one of my favorite characters as well. I will be starting the second book right off. I look forward to some more late night reading with these characters. - M.
I enjoyed the book very much. Verity was a wonderful character. I understand why people didn't like Fitz much. He's very passive through most of the book, doing whatever others want him to, never thinking for himself. It's not until the end that he starts taking the reins of his own life.
Jeff wrote: "I enjoyed the book very much. Verity was a wonderful character. I understand why people didn't like Fitz much. He's very passive through most of the book, doing whatever others want him to, never t..."Yeah, but you also gotta keep in mind it's established early on that Fitz must tread carefully. The fact he has royal blood in him is every bit as problematic as his being a bastard. More so since he gained the attention of King Shrewd. Passivity probably seems like the best way to avoid unfavorable confrontation from the likes of people like Regal and Galen or the people closer to his age group who curry favor to the likes of Regal and Galen. That Fitz doesn't comes into his own until the end is - I think - a perfectly acceptable progression to his character arc.
I did think Verity was a wonderful character as well. It's definitely good to have someone like him in your court and as your King-In-Waiting. The Fool I thought was an intriguing character. I definitely found myself wanting to know more about him.
Dwayne wrote: The Fool I thought was an intriguing character. I definitely found myself wanting to know more about him. Good call. The funniest part of the book is when Fitz first talks to the Fool. At first the Fool is speaking nonsense, but then he speaks with perfect clarity. That was great.
I was pretty disappointed with this book. I expected a lot more action with our protagonist playing a more central role. Instead, I felt like there was often a lot of build up that just died away. That said, I may try the rest of the series and see if all that potential does go somewhere. The rest of my review is here.
Katie/Doing Dewey wrote: "I was pretty disappointed with this book. I expected a lot more action with our protagonist playing a more central role. Instead, I felt like there was often a lot of build up that just died away. ..."The first book sets the character up. In the next books it becomes more fast paced with Fitz right in the middle of things and going and doing more stuff.
Kp wrote: "Katie/Doing Dewey wrote: "I was pretty disappointed with this book. I expected a lot more action with our protagonist playing a more central role. Instead, I felt like there was often a lot of buil..."Wonderful! I will have to give it a go :)
I'm torn. I read all three books, so I obviously didn't hate them. But I read the third book and felt no need to read anything else in that universe. I think the book was well written and even fairly plotted. I wouldn't have put up with a poorly written story even if the hook was good for three books.That said, I found the setting too depressing to want to spend time in it. I think I am probably too old to have come to this book new. Fitz is in a right fix from the beginning. There is no way for him to completely get what he wants, and most of the characters in the book are in a similar position. I don't need a happy ending; but I if I want to read something painful, I'll read something for work.
I liked the world building in general, but there were a few things that bugged me. The size and scale of the duchies seems off. Maybe it was just the way I took it when I read, but the "feel" for the travel is as important as how far things actually are. I think Ms. Hobb did a very good job of writing men generally, but the changes that Fitz's body goes through seem to be too quick at times and too slow in others.
I have no real issue with Fitz being emo. He is the right age to feel that way, and is actually in an awkward position socially on top of it. He is also in the thrall of drugs from an early age (some his doing, some not), and drugs and alcohol only make depression worse.
I actually thought if anything, her women were the ones that seemed flat and one-note. Part of that could be that even N-Fitz doesn't understand women and sees them more simply than they are, but I don't think so. The women in all three books seemed to have a sign on them stating their archetype and tropes. Verity, Burrich, Chade and Shrewd are all much more nuanced portrayals, in my humble opinion.
So I guess I would say I liked the books, but they aren’t my favorites. I wouldn’t recommend them, but I wouldn’t dissuade anyone from reading them either.
hmm... I found the Tawny Man series better than the Farseer. I would honestly suggest reading it mainly because its not as desperate as the Farseer was and from the way this is reading, that was your main problem with farseer.
I finished it last night. Wow. Really enjoyed it. I've ordered the next two books and am really looking forward to reading them.I was a bit confused at the end when (view spoiler) Did anyone else get it?
I did find (view spoiler) at the very end a bit of a deus ex machina. There was absolutely no foreshadowing of this, and it seemed a bit too pat.
Like Dwayne, I also thought Fool was a very interesting character. I also had a lot more respect for Verity by the end of the book and a lot less for Shrewd.
The Burrich memory loss was from the point he helped fitz escape after he ans the prince drank the poison. Fitz was locked in a stable.I did want to question one point though but I am going to make a thread on that topic alone I think.
I have read it a couple of times, reread it a year or so ago so ago so felt like too soon to join in this time - so I am talking from memoryHowever - I am with veronica I love these books. The fact that its dark and depressing and magic is hard, and the fact that Fitz is human and has a mix of good and bad qualities, makes this a great read. I think its one of the first fantasy series I read that took a more gritty and realistic take on the genre, and then there have been lots more like Joe Abercrombie that have carried that on. But still rates as one of my favourite 'Sword' series.
I re-read this book last month and I was struck by the same thought as with my first read so many years ago. Fitz is the most hard done by character I have ever read. His entire life is just crap, or at least written that way. There is very few things that happen to him which are good and when he does have good periods in his life they are gloassed over in a few lines or at most a paragraph. That being said, even on my third read of this book, i could not put it down.
Dave wrote: "I re-read this book last month and I was struck by the same thought as with my first read so many years ago. Fitz is the most hard done by character I have ever read. His entire life is just crap, ..."I know what you are saying, but compared to the average person in the town his life is pretty good. When I read your comment this immediately went through my head:
MORTICIAN: Who's that then?
CUSTOMER: I don't know.
MORTICIAN: Must be a king.
CUSTOMER: Why?
MORTICIAN: He hasn't got shit all over him.
I'm hoping the second book settles down a bit more and becomes less like a montage. Parts of the first book seemed rushed and many of the secondary characters seemed throw away. Certainly kept me turning the pages though, and Fit's development was well done.My review.
Michael wrote: "Misstessamelissa wrote: "I sort of considered the Forged as zombies. Yeah, they were not technical living-dead zombies, but very, very close IMO. "I agree, they are close to zombies, but I give he..."
THANK YOU. I just finished Leviathan Wakes, and really enjoyed it, but as soon as I saw "vomit zombies" as a term they were taking seriously and not just using as a one-off quip, I was pretty annoyed.
As for Fitz, I like the fact that he doesn't have it all together. I love the fact that he's not overpowered. He can use the Skill, but knows that he kind of sucks at it. You see it more later, (view spoiler), but he's kind of the John McClane of fantasy. He doesn't finish the book all squeaky clean and shiny, ready to head off on his next adventure. He gets his ass kicked, and carries all sorts of scars along with him.
Mod
Normally I discuss books with a small group of friends who seem to have similar opinions as I do about most of the books.
I am enjoying the first person perspective that limits your knowledge of events and motivations of the other characters.
I've been catching up on the SoIaF books this year and it's been great contrast to the multiple person perspectives that you get from those books.
I read most of this book on the Orkney Islands in Scotland. Reading it by the sea and in small fishing towns was perfect.I loved this book. I was interested by it from the first page and continued to enjoy it but my love for it grew as I read more and more. I really enjoyed it's pace and found that the more I read the more I wanted to read and the story built. By the time I reached the last few chapters I think I was literally on the edge of my seat, finding that the final sequence of events kept taking turns as soon as I thought I had to figure out, which kept me on my toes.
I didn't dislike Fitz, I'm interested to see his character grow. But my favorite character by far was the Fool. Now there's a mystery!
I would not recommend reading this book with your dog curled up on your lap though.
Finished reading it last night. I've only been with the club since The Magicians. Although I liked The Assassin's Apprentice, this was my least favourite book I've read since I joined the club. I have a couple of friend though who I will be recommending this book to, so I get that some people are going to connect more with the story than I did.
My issue is simply that first-person narration is harder to pull off because if the reader doesn't fall in love with your main character, they're going to find your book a bit of a slog to get through. I found Fitz's story interesting, but I didn't find Fitz all that interesting as a character. I read about things happening to Fitz rather than hearing about Fitz making things happen.
And because the story was told in first person, it was harder to flesh out the other characters. I think this happened eventually, but it was rather time consuming. A lot of people have pointed out that the book does pick up steam around chapter 17. While this is true, I think some readers would like to be hooked a bit sooner.
Who would I recommend this book to? Those new to fantasy, those who get annoyed with fantasy books with 15+ major character to keep track of and animal lovers. I will probably read the next book in the series, but I don't feel the need to run out and get it immediately, like I have with some of our more recent picks.
Finished it today and already on to Royal Assassin. I figured I can go on to that since I've read Foundation about 5 times as it was the book that really got me into SciFi. As for Assassin's Apprentice, it was a bit of a slog in the middle due to the depressing amount of crap lumped on poor Fitz. However, as others have mentioned, it gets much better after that.I really enjoy the world and I'm interested to see what becomes of young Fitz after his ordeal at Jhaampe. I found Fitz engaging enough a character to want to see him mature. As is the case for other media, good character development is key to writing a good book. If you don't care about the character, it's hard to care about what happens to him/her and what's going on around him/her. And as with everything, one person's good character development is another's annoyance.
TL;DR: Good book with interesting characters.
The Sword and Laser
Books mentioned in this topic
Royal Assassin (other topics)Foundation (other topics)
The Magicians (other topics)
Royal Assassin (other topics)
My Review http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/....
Anyone else finished and want to discuss?