Timothy Ferriss's Blog, page 3
April 24, 2025
Stephen West — From High School Dropout to Hit Podcast (Plus: Life Lessons from Ralph Waldo Emerson, Friedrich Nietzsche, Simone Weil, and More) (#808)
“Nietzsche said ‘amor fati’ is how he’s going to live his life. Henceforth, he decided everything he’s going to say yes to. He will be a yes-sayer, is what he says. This is an affirmative stance towards reality where, even if things are bad or uncomfortable or horrible, we’re going to affirm reality as it is and not idealize it into something that it’s not. It’s very common for people to do, even when they’re not religious, to think of reality as though it owes you something. But to affirm reality fully is to accept the good, the bad. It’s not to rationalize about it and try to make excuses for it or frame your suffering in a way where it makes it go away. To truly affirm life and reality is just to be in it and to have life itself be enough, truly.”
— Stephen West
Stephen West (@iamstephenwest) is a father, husband, and host of the Philosophize This! podcast. He attempts to explain, translate, and humanize philosophy in a way that doesn’t ever aim to tell people what to think but to invite them to better understand their own thoughts by exploring alternatives.
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, YouTube Music, Amazon Music, Audible, or on your favorite podcast platform.
This episode is brought to you by Gusto simple and easy payroll, HR, and benefits platform used by 400,000+ businesses; Momentous high-quality supplements; and Eight Sleep’s Pod 4 Ultra sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating.

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Want to hear another podcast episode focusing on philosophy and the nature of reality? Listen to my conversation with Galileo’s Error author Philip Goff, in which we discussed panpsychism, quantum consciousness, Integrated Information Theory, mystical traditions within Christianity and Islam, psychedelics and numinous experiences, the matter of matter, and much more.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Stephen West/Philosophize This!:Website | Patreon | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Podcasts and Radio ShowsPhilosophize This! with Stephen WestLoveline with Adam Carolla and Dr. DrewHardcore History with Dan CarlinWrath of the Khans with Dan CarlinHistory of Philosophy Without Any Gaps with Peter AdamsonThe Partially Examined Lifefear{less} with Tim FerrissBooks, Articles, and Written WorksThe Warehouse Worker Who Became a Philosopher by Thomas Chatterton Williams | The AtlanticBeing and Nothingness by Jean-Paul SartreGorgias by PlatoLetters from a Stoic / Moral Letters to Lucilius by SenecaLetter to a Christian Nation by Sam HarrisThe Principia: The Authoritative Translation and Guide: Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy by Sir Isaac NewtonOn Anger by Lucius Annaeus SenecaNature by Ralph Waldo EmersonSelf-Reliance by Ralph Waldo EmersonThe 4-Hour Body: An Uncommon Guide to Rapid Fat Loss, Incredible Sex, and Becoming Superhuman by Timothy FerrissThe 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Timothy FerrissThe God Delusion by Richard DawkinsThe Hunger Games by Suzanne CollinsThe Moral Landscape: How Science Can Determine Human Values by Sam HarrisThe Obstacle is the Way: The Timeless Art of Turning Trials into Triumph by Ryan HolidayA Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy by William B. IrvineThe Wealth of Nations by Adam SmithThink: A Compelling Introduction to Philosophy by Simon BlackburnTractatus Logico-Philosophicus by Ludwig WittgensteinVagabonding: An Uncommon Guide to the Art of Long-Term World Travel by Rolf PottsWalden by Henry David ThoreauAdvantageous Apps and ResourcesThe Way: Sanbo Zen Master Henry Shukman’s meditation app.Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy: A free treasure trove of philosophical knowledge.ArtMona Lisa by Leonardo da VinciThe Starry Night by Vincent van GoghPeopleDave Elitch: Professional drummer.Thomas Chatterton Williams: Writer (The Atlantic article).Ernest Hemingway: Writer.Adam Carolla: Radio host (Loveline).Dr. Drew Pinsky: Radio host (Loveline).Howard Stern: Radio host.Socrates: Ancient Greek philosopher.Plato: Ancient Greek philosopher.Jerry Seinfeld: Comedian.Ralph Waldo Emerson: Writer, poet, lecturer, and philosopher.Jimmy Whisenhunt: eSports shoutcaster friend of Stephen’s.John Madden: An professional American football coach and sports commentator.Dan Carlin: Podcaster (Hardcore History).General Subutai: Historical figure.Dave Chappelle: Comedian.Miles Davis: Musician.Dizzy Gillespie: Musician.Peter Adamson: Podcaster/philosopher (History of Philosophy Without Any Gaps).Bill Burr: Comedian.Fyodor Dostoevsky: Writer.Epicurus: Hellenistic philosopher, founder of Epicureanism.Seneca: Stoic philosopher (Letters from a Stoic, On Anger).Henry Shukman: Meditation teacher (The Way app).Kevin Rose: aka KevKev. Introduced me to Henry Shukman.Friedrich Nietzsche: Philosopher associated with amor fati.Bertrand Russell: Philosopher and logician associated with atheist arguments.Vincent Van Gogh: Artist.Richard Dawkins: Writer/biologist, associated with New Atheism (The God Delusion).Sam Harris: Writer/philosopher/neuroscientist, associated with New Atheism (The Moral Landscape, Letter to a Christian Nation).Søren Kierkegaard: 19th-century philosopher.Simone Weil: 20th-century philosopher/mystic, major influence on Stephen West, concept of “attention.”Simon Blackburn: Contemporary philosopher (Think), concept of “conceptual engineering.”Paracelsus: Historical figure (source of “dose makes the poison” idea).Ludwig Wittgenstein: Philosopher (Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus).Diogenes: Cynic philosopher.Gilles Deleuze: 20th-century philosopher.Mahatma Gandhi: Leader.Jack Kornfield: Buddhist teacher/writer.Albert Camus: Writer/artist/philosopher associated with Absurdism.William B. Irvine: Writer (Guide to the Good Life).Ryan Holiday: Writer (The Obstacle is the Way).Julian of Norwich: Mystic writer.Dogen Zenji: Founder of the Soto school of Zen.Thomas Aquinas: Philosopher and theologian.Henry David Thoreau: Writer/philosopher (Walden).Rolf Potts: Writer (Vagabonding).Jean-Paul Sartre: Philosopher (Being and Nothingness).Isaac Newton: Scientist and natural philosopher (Principia Mathematica).Adam Smith: Ethical philosopher and economist (The Wealth of Nations).Kanye West: Musician.Institutions and CompaniesSafeway: Grocery store where Stephen worked.Jo-Ann Fabrics: Craft store where Stephen worked.Counter-Strike: A series of multiplayer tactical first-person shooter video games.StarCraft: A military science fiction media/gaming franchise.MIT: Massachusetts Institute of Technology.Duke’s Chowder House: Seattle seafood restaurant where Stephen’s friend worked.Barnes & Noble: American bookseller with the largest number of retail outlets in the United States.Kennedy Space Center: NASA’s main launch site.Lilly Library at Indiana University: Mentioned as housing archives of Sylvia Plath’s works.Philosophical ConceptsAbsurdism: Philosophical concept associated with Camus that addresses the conflict between the human search for meaning and the universe’s meaninglessness.Amor Fati: (“Love of Fate”) Philosophical concept, notably used by Nietzsche, that involves embracing all aspects of one’s life, including hardships and suffering.Assemblage: Deleuzian concept describing dynamic compositions of heterogeneous elements that form temporary functional wholes through processes of coding and territorialization.Attention: Concept from Simone Weil involving self-emptying focus on others, described as a form of waiting and receptivity rather than active concentration.Conceptual Engineering: Metaphor for philosophy (Simon Blackburn) involving the analysis, assessment and improvement of concepts.Conceptual Tracings: Idea of forming new ways to see reality through the development and refinement of concepts.Concepts vs. Machines: Deleuzian distinction between abstract thought forms and functional assemblages that produce effects.Cynicism: Hellenistic school of philosophy focused on living virtuously in accordance with nature and rejecting conventional desires.Deliberate Practice: Focused approach to skill development requiring specific goals, feedback, and concentrated effort.Disruption of Common Sense: Description of philosophy’s function to challenge accepted ways of thinking and unexamined assumptions.Divine: Concept related to ultimate reality/God and the transcendent qualities that exist beyond ordinary experience.Epistemology: Branch of philosophy focused on the theory of knowledge, examining how we know what we know and the justification of belief.Ethics: Branch of philosophy concerning moral principles, values, and the concepts of right and wrong conduct.Epicureanism: Hellenistic school of philosophy founded by Epicurus that emphasized the pursuit of pleasure (defined as absence of pain) and tranquility.Fascism: Political philosophy/system characterized by ultranationalism, authoritarian power, and suppression of opposition.Freedom: Philosophical concept concerning the ability to act according to one’s will without constraint or coercion.Lucid Revolt: Camus’s concept of rebelling against the Absurd through conscious recognition and defiance without false hope.Marxism: Political/economic philosophy developed by Karl Marx that analyzes class relationships, historical materialism, and critique of capitalism.Mysticism: Approach to spirituality emphasizing direct experience of ultimate reality beyond ordinary understanding.Narcissism: Psychological/philosophical concept involving excessive self-love, self-centeredness, and lack of empathy for others.Natural Philosophy: Historical precursor to modern science focused on understanding nature through philosophical inquiry.New Atheism: 21st-century movement critical of religion, characterized by scientific rationalism and public criticism of religious belief.New Rich: Concept from The 4-Hour Workweek describing people who prioritize lifestyle design over traditional wealth accumulation.Numinous: Concept relating to awe-inspiring spiritual/divine quality that evokes both fascination and fear.Out of Africa Theory: The most widely accepted model explaining the origin and spread of modern humans.Phenomenology: Philosophical movement focusing on structures of experience and consciousness from the first-person perspective.Philosophical Fiction: Literary genre that explores philosophical ideas through narrative storytelling.Philosophy: The discipline itself, concerned with fundamental questions about knowledge, reality, existence, and values.Philosophy of Language: Branch of philosophy examining the nature of language, meaning, and the relationship between language and reality.Philosophy of Mind: Branch of philosophy exploring the nature of mind, consciousness, and their relationship to the physical world.Presocratics: Earliest Western philosophers who investigated nature and reality before Socrates, laying foundations for philosophical inquiry.Religious Phenomenology: Study of religious experience from a phenomenological perspective, focusing on how the sacred appears to consciousness.Sanbo Zen: A specific lineage/style of Zen Buddhism emphasizing direct experience of enlightenment through meditation.Skepticism: Hellenistic school of philosophy questioning the possibility of certainty in knowledge and suspending judgment.Stoicism: Hellenistic school of philosophy focused on virtue ethics, emotional regulation, and accepting what is beyond one’s control.Sufism: Mystical branch of Islam emphasizing direct personal experience of God through practices like meditation and poetry.Transcendentalism: A literary, philosophical, religious, and political movement of the early 19th century.Zen: School of Mahayana Buddhism emphasizing meditation, intuition, and direct experience of reality beyond conceptual thinking.SHOW NOTES[00:00:00] So it begins.[00:06:11] Stephen’s challenging childhood — from San Diego to Child Protective Services.[00:07:55] How Stephen supported himself after dropping out of school at 16.[00:09:37] The physical wear and tear of warehouse work (and unexpected upsides of the job).[00:11:48] How Stephen discovered philosophy through googling “wisest person in history.”[00:14:07] Defining philosophy as a “disruption of common sense” and “gym for rethinking.”[00:16:06] The 4-Hour Workweek as a philosophical text.[00:19:27] A philosophical shift around Ralph Waldo Emerson.[00:22:18] The transition from warehouse work to starting Philosophize This! with friendly encouragement.[00:27:47] Authenticity as the secret sauce to Philosophize This![00:32:24] The discomfort of comparing old episodes with new.[00:34:15] The current state of Philosophize This!: 225 episodes, Patreon, ads, upcoming book deal.[00:37:18] The value of focusing on content quality before monetization.[00:38:44] Most popular Philosophize This! episodes thus far.[00:40:00] Philosophize This! episodes I’d like to hear.[00:41:20] Thinking of philosophy as a verb, not a noun.[00:46:44] The concept of amor fati (love of fate) and its practical application.[00:48:41] Wittgenstein’s ladder as a metaphor for philosophical growth.[00:51:36] Stephen’s perspective on philosophy as a process rather than a set of protocols.[00:54:43] Philosophies that have personal meaning to Stephen: Nietzsche, Kierkegaard, Simone Weil.[00:56:40] Simone Weil’s concept of attention and self-emptying.[00:59:26] Stephen’s approach to simplicity and sacrificing efficiency for meaning.[01:04:07] Valuing time and playing the long game.[01:06:01] How philosophy lives “in the shadow” of what we give credit to (science, psychology).[01:08:31] The value of philosophy in generating better questions.[01:10:06] Stephen’s future plans: possibly writing philosophical fiction.[01:19:05] Stephen’s billboard.[01:21:41] Recommendations for getting started with philosophy.[01:24:29] Gilles Deleuze and concepts as machines.[01:26:55] Why do we believe what we believe?[01:30:40] Stephen’s evolving relationship with religion after starting as a New Atheist.[01:32:33] Exploring mysticism and religious phenomenology.[01:37:51] Parting thoughts.MORE STEPHEN WEST QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW“Why do we need old men yelling at each other about unverifiable speculation? Why do you need philosophy? And what that point misses is that philosophy is how we got to the point where we’re looking at the world in the way we do now.”
— Stephen West
“I don’t give advice, because if a person is asking for advice, typically, they’re not the person that really takes the advice — so it’s almost always a waste of your time. But if you’re the one that genuinely takes advice, and it’s ironically me giving you advice to be the one that takes advice, but if you can do that, if you can manage that, then you won’t need advice here in six months — you’ll be the one giving it.”
— Stephen West
“The highest level of abstraction in any field is going to be philosophy. If you’re somebody well-educated … at the top of your field, in order to make progress in that field, you have to subvert the existing set of protocols and assumptions, axiomatically, that are going on in that field. To move the field forward, you have to be doing philosophy.”
— Stephen West
“I really do sacrifice efficiency for meaning pretty often.”
— Stephen West
“You don’t need to be a genius. You just need to be saying something that resonates with other people.”
— Stephen West
“Simon Blackburn … describes philosophy as conceptual engineering. It’s a great metaphor. If an engineer looks at a bridge and they know about the raw materials of the bridge and they know how they connect to other parts of the bridge and everything, if you can show an engineer one bridge, a particular bridge, and he’d be like, ‘Well, it holds weight over here, but if we put weight over on this side, it’s going to all start crumbling down.’ Philosophers do this with world views.”
— Stephen West
“A way I’ve heard [philosophy] described is it’s the disruption of common sense. I mean, what is looking at the world at all? It’s an approximation. We are works in progress. I look at the world one way for a while, and everybody knows what it’s like to change the way that you see everything in the world. I just think that philosophy is the method of doing that.”
— Stephen West
“Nietzsche said ‘amor fati’ is how he’s going to live his life. Henceforth, he decided everything he’s going to say yes to. He will be a yes-sayer, is what he says. This is an affirmative stance towards reality where, even if things are bad or uncomfortable or horrible, we’re going to affirm reality as it is and not idealize it into something that it’s not. It’s very common for people to do, even when they’re not religious, is to think of reality as though it owes you something. But to affirm reality fully is to accept the good, the bad. It’s not to rationalize about it and to try to make excuses for it or frame your suffering in a way where it makes it go away. To truly affirm life and reality is just to be in it and to have life itself be enough, truly.”
— Stephen West
The post Stephen West — From High School Dropout to Hit Podcast (Plus: Life Lessons from Ralph Waldo Emerson, Friedrich Nietzsche, Simone Weil, and More) (#808) appeared first on The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss.
April 17, 2025
How Rich Barton Built Expedia and Zillow from $0 to $35B — Audacious Goals, Provocation Marketing, Scrabble for Naming, and Powerful Daily Rituals (#806)
Rich Barton (@Rich_Barton) is the co-founder and co-executive chairman of Zillow, a company transforming how people buy, sell, rent, and finance homes. Rich has been a member of Zillow’s board since its inception in 2004 and has served as both its CEO and executive chairman.
Before Zillow, Rich founded Expedia within Microsoft in 1994 and successfully spun the company off as a public company in 1999. He served as president, CEO, and board director of Expedia and later co-founded and served as non-executive chairman of Glassdoor.Rich was a venture partner at Benchmark Capital and continues to be a board director for Qurate, Stanford Board of Trustees, and Zillow Group.
Rich has been married to Sarah since 1993 and has three grown, kick-ass children, who couldn’t be more awesome and different. He loves to snowboard, surf, play tennis, golf, hike, and fish with his family and friends and has to spend an increasing amount of time keeping strong and fit in order to be so active.
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, YouTube Music, Amazon Music, Audible, or on your favorite podcast platform.
This episode is brought to you by Ramp easy-to-use corporate cards, bill payments, accounting, and more; Cresset prestigious family office for CEOs, founders, and entrepreneurs; and Shopify global commerce platform, providing tools to start, grow, market, and manage a retail business.

This episode is brought to you by Ramp! Ramp is corporate card- and spend-management software designed to help you save time and put money back in your pocket. Ramp has already saved more than 25,000 customers—including other podcast sponsors like Shopify and Eight Sleep—more than 10 million hours and more than $1 billion through better financial management of their corporate spending.
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This episode is brought to you by Cresset Family Office! Listeners have heard me talk about “making before you manage” for years. And for me—as a writer and entrepreneur—I definitely gravitate toward making. So it’s important that I find the right people who are great at managing. That’s why I trust this episode’s sponsor, Cresset Family Office.
Cresset is a prestigious family office for CEOs, founders, and entrepreneurs. They handle the complex financial planning, uncertain tax strategies, timely exit planning, bill pay and wires, and all the other parts of wealth management that would otherwise pull me away from doing what I love most: making things, mastering skills, and spending time with the people I care about. Experience the freedom of focusing on what matters to you with the support of a top wealth management team. Schedule a call today at cressetcapital.com/Tim to see how Cresset can help streamline your financial plans and grow your wealth.
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Want to hear an episode with someone who’s worked closely with Rich Barton? Listen to my conversation with Benchmark’s Bill Gurley, in which we discussed sell-side analysts versus buy-side analysts, financial models, repurposing good ideas for alternative applications, the conviction of network effects, undervalued competitive advantages, cultivating anti-tribalism, America’s future, and much more.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Rich Barton:Institutions/Companies/Places Zillow : Real estate marketplace company co-founded by Rich Barton and Lloyd Frink.Expedia: Microsoft-originating travel technology company that went public under Rich’s leadership.Glassdoor: Job/company review site co-founded by Rich Barton and Bob Hohman. Mentioned for its provocative data (salaries, CEO reviews) and “give to get” model.CNBC: Rich’s favorite source of news because “business news is generally happy.”Hyperice: Company making wellness/recovery products (like the Venom).Marvel: New York City-based comic book publisher and media juggernaut.Abercrombie & Fitch: American lifestyle retailer.Four Seasons: Worldwide luxury hotel chain.Microsoft: Multinational corporation and technology conglomerate — one of Rich’s first jobs out of college.Egghead: Defunct software retail store chain. Rich’s first job involved getting MS-DOS 5 into Egghead.Barnes & Noble: Company operating approximately 600 retail bookstores across the United States.Borders: Once mighty, now defunct American bookselling chain.Bear Stearns: American investment bank, securities trading, and brokerage firm that failed in 2008.BCG (Boston Consulting Group): American global management consulting firm.Alliance Consulting Group: Strategy consulting firm where Rich worked right out of college.Stanford University: Highly selective, private research university.Apple: American multinational corporation and technology company.Patagonia: Retailer of outdoor clothing focused on environmental sustainability.Disney: American multinational mass media and entertainment conglomerate.Northwestern University: Private research university in Evanston, Illinois.Prodigy: Early online service provider where Rich used Easy Sabre.University of Washington: Research-intensive public university with a strong focus on STEM fields.GE (General Electric): An American multinational conglomerate founded in 1892.Honeywell: Publicly traded, multinational conglomerate corporation.IAC (InterActiveCorp): Media and internet conglomerate founded by Barry Diller, acquired Expedia. Rich served on its board.Gurney’s: Immerse yourself in coastal elegance and seaside charm at this iconic beach resort. Sorry, but day passes for locals no longer honored.Italy: The 10th-largest country in Europe by area.Idealab: Startup incubator founded by Bill Gross. Mentioned as potential origin place of the AdWords concept.TCV (Technology Crossover Ventures): Venture capital firm, co-invested with Benchmark in Zillow’s A round.Avvo: Online legal marketplace co-founded by Rich Barton and Mark Britton. Mentioned for rating attorneys and subsequent lawsuits (“provocation marketing”).Sand Hill Road: This stretch of roadway serves as the home to firms that have funded some of the largest tech companies in the market.Tripadvisor: Travel review site, used as a comparison/model for Avvo.FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigation): Mentioned metaphorically in the Die Hard analogy regarding the Avvo launch strategy.SEC (Securities and Exchange Commission): US government agency where Mark Britton worked.ISS (Institutional Shareholder Services): Firm that rates public company boards/directors. Rich mentioned having low ratings but not caring.Stripe: Financial technology company, mentioned as an example of a late-stage private company likely compensating directors well.Automattic: Company founded by Matt Mullenweg (WordPress), known for its distributed workforce model.Shopify: E-commerce platform company, mentioned as another example that handled the pandemic/remote work well.MindHead: Fictional cult-like religion/organization from the movie Bowfinger.Burning Man: A week-long, large-scale desert event focused on “community, art, self-expression, and self-reliance.”Books and Written WorksDOS For Dummies by Dan GookineBoys: The First Inside Account of Venture Capitalists at Work by Randall E. StrossThe 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Timothy FerrissThe 4-Hour Body: An Uncommon Guide to Rapid Fat-Loss, Incredible Sex, and Becoming Superhuman by Timothy FerrissIn Sunlight and in Shadow by Mark HelprinA Soldier of the Great War by Mark HelprinWinter’s Tale by Mark HelprinFreddy and Fredericka by Mark HelprinThe Last of the Mohicans by James Fenimore CooperSnow Crash by Neal StephensonCryptonomicon by Neal StephensonTermination Shock: A Novel by Neal StephensonPolostan: Volume One of Bomb Light by Neal StephensonStories of Your Life and Others by Ted ChiangExhalation: Stories by Ted ChiangThe Paper Menagerie and Other Stories by Ken LiuThe Lincoln Highway: A Novel by Amor TowlesHopper and Dropper: Rich’s mostly defunct blog.Movies/TV Shows/MusicThelma & LouiseField of DreamsBack to the FutureDie HardUp in the AirGame of ThronesArrivalAppetite For Destruction by Guns N’ RosesBillionsRoundersBowfingerPeopleEddy Cue: Apple executive mentioned in the context of Apple’s product “magic” (specifically Universal Control).Sarah Barton: Rich’s wife, mentioned in relation to her residency match, the birth of their twins, and family decisions (moving to Italy, getting tattoos).Brad Chase: Rich’s first significant boss at Microsoft. Encouraged him to take big swings, supported him despite the failure of the DOS for Dummies bundle project.Leonard and Stephen Riggio: Mentioned in relation to Barnes & Noble leadership during the DOS for Dummies bundle project.John Kilcullen: Creator of the For Dummies book series, met with Rich for the failed bundle project.Nina Marton: Stanford engineering classmate who got a job at Microsoft first and encouraged Rich to join.Michael Porter: Academic associated with competitive strategy concepts learned by Rich during his consulting stint.Bill Gates: Co-founder of Microsoft. Mentioned specifically for greenlighting the internal venture that became Expedia and promising to consider spinning it out.Steve Ballmer: CEO of Microsoft at the time Expedia was spun out.Jack Welch: Chairman and CEO of General Electric (GE) between 1981 and 2001.Greg Maffei: CFO of Microsoft, became Chairman of Expedia after the spin-out.Barry Diller: Media executive, founder of IAC. Acquired Expedia. Was Rich’s chairman for a period.Dara Khosrowshahi: Worked for Barry Diller/IAC, key strategist involved in the Expedia acquisition. Later became CEO of Expedia after Rich.Ermelinda Campani: Ran the Stanford program in Florence, helped Rich’s family when they moved there.Lloyd Frink: Rich’s Stanford classmate, Expedia colleague, and co-founder of Zillow.Bill Gurley: Has been a general partner at Benchmark for more than 20 years.Garrett Camp: Implied co-founder/early figure at Uber. Mentioned self-funding early stages.Travis Kalanick: Implied co-founder/early figure at Uber.Jason Calacanis: Implied early figure/investor at Uber.Bill Gross: Founder of Idealab, mentioned in relation to the potential origin of the AdWords concept.David Beitel: CTO at Expedia and Zillow.Walt Mossberg: Influential tech columnist who reviewed Zillow favorably at launch, causing a surge in traffic. Compared to Oprah in terms of influence at the time.Oprah Winfrey: Iconic American talk show host, television producer, actress, author, and media proprietor.Amy Bohutinsky: Head of Marketing at Zillow during launch, credited with the “lemonade out of lemons” approach to the launch day crash and the data-driven PR strategy.Bob Hohman: Expedia colleague, co-founder of Glassdoor with Rich.Mark Britton: Expedia colleague (former General Counsel), co-founder of Avvo with Rich.Bruce Dunlevie: Venture capitalist at Benchmark Capital.George Clooney: Actor mentioned regarding his role in the movie Up in the Air.Chris Sacca: A mutual friend of ours.Wile E. Coyote: If he catches you, you’re through.Matt Mullenweg: Founder of Automattic (WordPress). Influenced Barton’s thinking on remote work (“Cloud HQ”) during the pandemic.Mark Helprin: Author of fiction books including The Oceans and the Stars, Soldier of the Great War, A Winter’s Tale.John Mearsheimer: Political scientist associated with “offensive realism,” mentioned in relation to Mark Helprin’s writing themes.Haruki Murakami: Japanese author of magical realism fiction.Neal Stephenson: Science fiction author (Snow Crash, Cryptonomicon, Termination Shock, Polostan).Ted Chiang: Science fiction author of short story collections (Stories of Your Life and Others, Exhalation). His story was the basis for the movie Arrival.Jeremy Renner: Actor mentioned for his role in Arrival.Ken Liu: Science fiction/fantasy author (The Paper Menagerie).Amor Towles: Author (Lincoln Highway) who formerly worked in finance.Hugh Howey: Author mentioned in passing.Brian Koppelman: Co-creator of Billions, co-writer of Rounders, host of The Moment podcast, discovered Tracy Chapman.Tracy Chapman: Musician discovered by Brian Koppelman.Eddie Murphy: Actor/comedian mentioned for his roles in Bowfinger.Steve Martin: Actor/comedian mentioned for his role in Bowfinger.Heather Graham: Actress mentioned for her role in Bowfinger.Christiane King: Procreate tutorial instructor.ConceptsUniversal Control (Apple): Described as “magic” when Rich’s mouse moved seamlessly from Mac to iPad.Anaconda Diet: Rich’s 12-egg strategy for getting his son to gain weight.640k Barrier: Technical limitation in early MS-DOS overcome by MS-DOS 5.COGS (Cost of Goods Sold): Business term mentioned regarding the “DOS for Dummies” bundle cost.Intrapreneurs: Individuals who act like entrepreneurs within a larger organization.Rich identifies with this and discusses protecting them.Corporate Immune System: Metaphor for how large organizations can reject innovators.Clients and Servers: Software architecture concept used by Rich as an analogy for dividing the world into service providers and builders.Internet Bubble: a speculative bubble that developed following the popularization of the World Wide Web in 1991.Competitive Strategy / Michael Porter Five Forces: Business strategy frameworks learned/referenced by Rich.Conglomerate Discount: Financial concept where diversified companies are valued less than the sum of their parts.Compensation-Accountability Disconnect: Issue Rich saw at Microsoft that the Expedia spin-out aimed to address (partly).S-1: Document filed for an IPO (Initial Public Offering). Mentioned regarding Expedia’s IPO.IPO (Initial Public Offering): Term for the first time a private company sells shares of its stock to the public on a stock exchange.IPO Roadshow: Process of pitching a company to institutional investors before an IPO. Rich described his experience.Zestimate: Zillow’s proprietary home valuation algorithm/feature. Key innovation and “provocation marketing” tool.TAM (Total Addressable Market): Business concept discussed in relation to Uber’s market size perception.AdWords (Google): Advertising platform/model admired by Rich and Frink, potentially inspired auction ideas for Zillow (which failed for housing). Mentioned potential origin from Overture/GoTo.com (Idealab).Price Discovery: Economic concept, goal of Zillow’s early auction idea and later the Zestimate.Vertical Integration (Google): Strategic concern for marketplaces relying on Google traffic, as Google enters their business areas (travel, reviews, etc.).Super App (Zillow Strategy): Zillow’s long-term goal to be a one-stop integrated platform for renting/buying.High Point Scrabble Letters (Z, X, Q): Used in Rich’s company naming strategy for distinctiveness.(Rich’s): Prefer made-up words, rare letters (Z, X, Q), fewer syllables (2 ideal), evocative of positive things, potential verb use, double letters/palindromes.Board of Directors Role: Discussed functions in private (coaching, strategy, recruiting) vs. public companies (shareholder representation, CEO hiring/firing, capital allocation). Discussed potential pitfalls (process focus, CYA, ISS ratings).Cloud HQ / Cloud Headquarters: Rich’s term (influenced by Matt Mullenweg) for Zillow’s distributed/remote work model post-pandemic.Offensive Realism (John Mearsheimer): Political science concept mentioned regarding Mark Helprin’s writing themes.A&R (Artists and Repertoire): Music industry role (talent scouting/development), mentioned regarding Brian Koppelman’s past.“Don’t Panic”: A phrase from The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams, often used as a general advice in challenging or unexpected situations.Products/Brands/Services/G...iPad: Apple tablet computer.Pocari Sweat: Japanese electrolyte drink favored by Barton (recommended by his nutritionist).Hyperice Venom: Heated vibrating back wrap used by Barton during his morning routine.MS-DOS 5: Microsoft operating system Barton worked on early in his career.Windows 95: Major Microsoft operating system release Barton worked on before moving to the consumer division.Windows NT: A family of operating systems developed by Microsoft that use the “NT” (New Technology) core.CD-ROM: Optical disc format, mentioned regarding multimedia products (Encarta) and the failed travel guide idea.Encarta: Microsoft’s multimedia encyclopedia on CD-ROM. Barton managed a portfolio including an Encarta travel guide concept.easySABRE: Software tool used by travel agents (accessed by Barton via Prodigy) that inspired the Expedia concept.Peloton: Exercise bike/platform used by Barton.Scrabble: Board game, used as an analogy for letter frequency/value in Barton’s naming strategy.Taco Cat (Goat Cheese Pizza): Card game mentioned as simple fun during disconnected time.Google Maps: Online mapping service, integrated with Zillow’s Zestimate concept (prices on roofs).Kindle: Amazon’s e-reader device/platform, how Barton primarily reads now.Starlink: Satellite internet service, mentioned as making disconnection harder.Airstream: Brand of travel trailers.Procreate: Digital painting app for iPad used by Barton.WordPress: Content management system/platform associated with Matt Mullenweg/Automattic.Balenciaga: Luxury fashion brand.Prada: Another luxury fashion brand.Zoom: Video conferencing software, mentioned regarding IPO roadshows potentially moving online.AwardsHugo Award: Annual literary award for the best science fiction or fantasy works and achievements of the previous year.Nebula Award: Annual award for the best works of science fiction or fantasy published in the United States.Relevant ResourcesThe Man Who Escaped Microsoft and Took a Whole Company With Him | WIREDImproving Workplace Culture, One Review at a Time | The New YorkerThis Company Made Google a Trillion Dollars. Why Have You Never Heard of It? | Inc. | Hopper and DropperAmor Towles | The Moment with Brian KoppelmanSHOW NOTES[00:00:00] Start.[00:05:30] Eddy Cue magic.[00:06:14] Rich’s morning routine and workout philosophy.[00:13:38] How Brad Chase at Microsoft taught Rich to swing big.[00:15:46] The failed DOS for Dummies book bundle project.[00:18:52] Steering a company toward a culture of innovation.[00:20:26] Rich’s journey from management consulting to Microsoft.[00:24:34] How Expedia came to be.[00:32:32] Pitching and recruiting team talent.[00:37:18] Degree design at Stanford.[00:39:45] Realizing the value of real work as a youth.[00:41:44] A fascination with Italy.[00:43:01] Selling Expedia to Barry Diller/IAC.[00:43:51] Dara Khosrowshahi’s role in Expedia’s acquisition.[00:45:23] From a post-Expedia sale sabbatical in Italy to the birth of Zillow with Lloyd Frink.[00:55:41] “Big pond, good fishermen” as business criteria.[00:56:50] Early Zillow mistakes.[01:00:05] The Zestimate: Zillow’s killer feature.[01:01:29] Making lemonade from the lemons of Zillow’s launch day server crash.[01:03:49] Rich’s provocation marketing playbook.[01:05:30] Regulatory battles and resistance to industry disruption.[01:10:44] Founding Glassdoor and its “give to get” data collection model.[01:12:58] Avvo and rating attorneys — legal challenges as marketing.[01:16:11] Digital marketplaces and Google disintermediation concerns.[01:19:52] How Rich names companies to be memorable.[01:25:28] Why Rich recommends leaving fear out of the provocation marketing equation.[01:26:48] Working with Benchmark Capital.[01:30:37] What serving on a board looks like and Rich’s membership criteria: “Is it local? Is it fun? Is it lucrative?”[01:39:00] Rich’s motivation and regimen for staying healthy in his 50s.[01:47:13] Cultivating leadership through absence — the two-week disconnected trip.[01:49:34] Building a good company by keeping good company.[01:51:42] Developing the skill to fire people as a win/win proposition.[01:54:41] Rich’s family tattoo design and symbolism.[01:57:29] Advice for balancing family and professional life.[02:01:08] The benefits of distributed workforces post-pandemic.[02:03:23] Recommended reading.[02:12:17] Rich’s billboard.[02:14:25] The importance of sabbaticals and disconnecting from digital devices.[02:17:41] Taking up Procreate digital art during COVID.[02:19:05] Parting thoughts.RICH BARTON QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW“Great organizations encourage innovation, encourage big idea people to take big swings and do not punish them when it doesn’t work out according to plan.”
— Rich Barton
“Power to the people, baby. You build magic stuff for masses of consumers that they want to talk about with their friends, unprompted on the sidelines of the soccer game or what have you.”
— Rich Barton
“[Almost] all of my mistakes as a leader have been leaving the pitcher on the mound too long hoping that the arm would get better.”
— Rich Barton
“If you’re not happy with the performance of this person, I guarantee you the person isn’t happy either. Therefore, you can increase love in the world by releasing that person to find where that person belongs.”
— Rich Barton
“I’ve developed a pretty good playbook around what I would call provocation marketing. When you have a really provocative feature that you know people are going to feel emotional about one way or the other and they’re going to talk about it, you’re on to something.”
— Rich Barton
The post How Rich Barton Built Expedia and Zillow from $0 to $35B — Audacious Goals, Provocation Marketing, Scrabble for Naming, and Powerful Daily Rituals (#806) appeared first on The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss.
April 10, 2025
Philip Goff — Exploring Consciousness and Non-Ordinary Religion, Galileo’s Error, Panpsychism, Heretical Ideas, and Therapeutic Belief (#805)
“Panpsychism is the view that consciousness goes all the way down to the fundamental building blocks of reality.”
— Philip Goff
Philip Goff (@Philip_Goff) is a professor of philosophy at Durham University. His main research focus is consciousness, but he is interested in many questions about the nature of reality. He is most known for defending panpsychism, the view that consciousness is a fundamental and ubiquitous feature of the physical world. Fifteen years ago, panpsychism was laughed at, if it was thought of at all. Goff has led a movement that has made panpsychism a mainstream position, taught to undergraduates and widely discussed in academic journals.
Goff is the author of Galileo’s Error: Foundations for a New Science of Consciousness and Why? The Purpose of the Universe. He has published 50 academic articles and has written extensively for newspapers and magazines, including Scientific American, The Wall Street Journal, The Guardian, Aeon and the Times Literary Supplement.
Please enjoy!
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Want to hear how writer and producer Michael Schur brought philosophy to prime time with his critically acclaimed NBC comedy The Good Place? Listen to our conversation here, in which we discuss how performing live comedy is like Roman gladiator combat, the F = ma of sitcom writing, rare-book collecting, what qualifies the legitimacy of a philosopher, two philosophers Michael would choose to have on speed dial for his own personal instruction, worthwhile failures, why we should all strive to better understand ethics, and much more.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Philip Goff:Website | Mind Chat (Podcast) | Twitter | Bluesky
Books, Publications, and Written WorksGalileo’s Error: Foundations for a New Science of Consciousness by Philip GoffWhy? The Purpose of the Universe by Philip GoffDoes Consciousness Pervade the Universe? Philosopher Philip Goff Answers Questions About “Panpsychism” | Scientific AmericanLights On: How Understanding Consciousness Helps Us Understand the Universe by Annaka HarrisMind Beyond Brain: Buddhism, Science, and the Paranormal by David PrestiA Brief History of Time by Stephen HawkingThe Analysis of Matter by Bertrand RussellThe Will to Believe, Human Immortality, and Other Essays in Popular Philosophy by William JamesThe Varieties of Religious Experience by William JamesThe Varieties of Spiritual Experience: 21st Century Research and Perspectives by David YadenWhy I Am Not a Christian by Bertrand RussellReality+: Virtual Worlds and the Problems of Philosophy by David J. ChalmersThe Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name by Brian C. MurareskuWhat Would Teleological Causation Be? by John Hawthorne and Daniel Nolan | Metaphysical EssaysThe Year of Living Biblically: One Man’s Humble Quest to Follow the Bible as Literally as Possible by A.J. JacobsWhy Strict Churches Are Strong by Laurence R. Iannaccone | AJSThe Power of the Mustard Seed: Why Strict Churches Are Strong by Judith Shulevitz | SlateThe Case for God by Karen ArmstrongAll’s Well That Ends Well by William ShakespeareThe Holy BibleDominion: How the Christian Revolution Remade the World by Tom HollandMind and Cosmos: Why the Materialist Neo-Darwinian Conception of Nature is Almost Certainly False by Thomas NagelDune by Frank HerbertGold by RumiThe Angels Knocking on the Tavern Door: Thirty Poems by HafezI Now Think a Heretical Form of Christianity Might Be True by Philip Goff | AeonWhat Is It Like to Be a Bat? by Thomas Nagel | The Philosophical ReviewReview of ‘Why? The Purpose of the Universe’ by Brian Clegg | Popular SciencePeopleGareth Cook: Pulitzer Prize-winning author who interviewed Philip for Scientific American.Annaka Harris: Author, friend of Philip, sympathetic to Panpsychism.Roger Penrose: Nobel Prize-winning physicist, proponent of quantum consciousness theories.Stuart Hameroff: Scientist who collaborated with Penrose on consciousness theories.Kurt Gödel: Logician known for incompleteness theorems.Christof Koch: Neuroscientist involved in consciousness research, made a bet with Chalmers, associated with IIT.David Chalmers: Philosopher known for work on consciousness, made a bet with Koch, proponent of Panpsychism, author of Reality+.Giulio Tononi: Neuroscientist, key figure in Integrated Information Theory — IIT.Max Planck: Physicist, father of quantum theory, quoted on consciousness being fundamental.Galileo Galilei: Scientist pivotal in the scientific revolution, discussed for separating consciousness from physical science.David Presti: Neuroscientist at UC Berkeley, editor of Mind Beyond Brain.Steve Jurvetson: Venture capitalist discussed regarding quantum computing (Tim Ferriss Show #317).Bertrand Russell: Philosopher and logician, key influence on Philip, proponent of ideas foundational to modern Panpsychism, author of Why I Am Not a Christian.Charles Darwin: Biologist, used as a comparison for Russell’s impact.Arthur Eddington: Scientist who confirmed Einstein’s theory, worked on consciousness/Panpsychism with Russell.Albert Einstein: Physicist, creator of the theory of general relativity.Isaac Newton: Physicist whose theory of gravity was updated by Einstein.Stephen Hawking: Physicist, author of A Brief History of Time.William James: Philosopher and psychologist, major influence on Philip, known for Varieties of Religious Experience and The Will to Believe.Karen Armstrong: Historian of religion, author of The Case for God.Meister Eckhart: Christian mystic.William Lane Craig: Christian philosopher and apologist debated by Philip.Dale Allison: Biblical scholar known for work on the resurrection.Jesus: Central figure of Christianity, also referred to as Yeshua.Tom Holland: Historian, author of Dominion.William Shakespeare: Playwright.Bertram: Character in Shakespeare’s All’s Well That Ends Well.Helena: Character in Shakespeare’s All’s Well That Ends Well.Origen: Early Christian theologian known for allegorical interpretation.Thomas Aquinas: Philosopher and theologian, mentioned as initially radical.St. Francis of Assisi: Christian saint associated with mysticism and nature.Thomas Merton: Trappist monk and mystic writer.Brian Muraresku: Author of The Immortality Key.Bart Ehrman: Atheist Bible scholar mentioned regarding early Christian experiences.St. Peter: Apostle of Jesus mentioned regarding resurrection experiences.Mary Magdalene: Follower of Jesus mentioned regarding resurrection experiences.Thomas Nagel: Philosopher, author of Mind and Cosmos.Richard Dawkins: Biologist and prominent atheist.Nick Bostrom: Philosopher known for the simulation hypothesis.John Hawthorne: Philosopher mentioned for work on teleological laws.Daniel Nolan: Philosopher mentioned for work on teleological laws.Blaise Pascal: Mathematician and philosopher known for Pascal’s Wager.Thomas Bayes: Mathematician, originator of Bayes’ Theorem.David Hume: Philosopher known for skepticism, challenged by Bayes regarding miracles.John Maynard Keynes: Economist, quoted on changing one’s mind.Constantine: Roman Emperor associated with Christianity’s rise.Socrates: Ancient Greek philosopher, used as a comparison for Bohr’s charisma.Niels Bohr: Physicist, pioneer of quantum mechanics.Knut Nordby: Late neuroscientist, expert color scientist who was colorblind.Eugene Wigner: Nobel Prize-winning physicist who explored consciousness in quantum mechanics.W.K. Clifford: Mathematician and philosopher mentioned by William James regarding belief and evidence.Joanna Leidenhag: Panpsychist theologian.Plato: Ancient Greek philosopher.Joe Rogan: Podcaster who interviewed Philip.Luke Roelofs: Philosopher, panpsychist who believes everything is conscious.Angela Mendonovici: Philosopher mentioned as a secular panpsychist.Hedda Hassel Mørch: Philosopher mentioned as seeing consonance between Panpsychism and spirituality.Itai Shani: Philosopher mentioned as seeing consonance between Panpsychism and spirituality.A.J. Jacobs: Author and journalist known for his immersive journalism and experiments in living.Hafez: Persian Sufi poet.Jalal al-Din Rumi: Persian Sufi poet.Haleh Liza Gafori: Performance artist, translator, vocalist, poet, and musician.David Yaden: Scientist, author of The Varieties of Spiritual Experiences.Stanislas Dehaene: Neuroscientist associated with Global Neuronal Workspace Theory.Erwin Schrödinger: Physicist known for the Schrödinger equation and thought experiment.Gottlieb Frege: Logician and philosopher who worked with Russell.Kelvin McQueen: Philosopher who explored consciousness’s role in quantum mechanics with Chalmers.Concepts (Philosophy/Religion/Spirituality)Consciousness: Subjective experience, “what it’s like to be.” Core topic.Panpsychism: Philosophical view that consciousness is fundamental and ubiquitous.Mystical Experiences: Experiences of unity, transcendence, deep insight.Animism: Belief system mentioned as distinct from Panpsychism.Cosmopsychism: View that the universe itself is conscious.Emergent Property: Idea that complexity arises from simplicity, contrasted with fundamental consciousness.Materialism: Philosophical view that matter is fundamental.Fundamental Reality: The basic level of existence.Observation (in Quantum Mechanics): Act of measurement, potentially linked to consciousness.Qualia: The qualitative character of experience.Explanatory Gap: Difficulty explaining subjective experience from physical processes.Galileo’s Error (Concept): Philip’s idea about the exclusion of quality from science.Global Neuronal Workspace Theory (GNWT): A functional architecture that relates consciousness to cognitive abilities such as perception, attention, memory, and evaluation.Soul: Immaterial essence, traditionally seat of consciousness.Dualism: Philosophical view of mind and matter as distinct.Occam’s Razor: Principle favoring simpler explanations.Miracles: Events attributed to supernatural intervention.Platonic Heaven: Metaphor for Plato’s realm of Forms/Numbers.Combination Problem: Challenge for Panpsychism regarding combining simple consciousnesses.Bayes’ Theorem: A mathematical rule for inverting conditional probabilities, allowing one to find the probability of a cause given its effect.Pascal’s Wager: Argument for believing in God based on outcomes.The Will to Believe / The Right to Believe: James’s concept about belief beyond evidence.Double-Standard (Epistemological): James’ argument about trusting different types of experience.Cosmic Purpose / Goal-Directedness: Idea of inherent direction in the universe.Teleological Laws: Hypothetical laws of nature incorporating purpose.Telos: Greek word for ‘purpose’ or ‘goal.’The Simulation Hypothesis: Are we living in a computer simulation?Stoicism: An ancient philosophy that teaches the development of self-control and fortitude as a means of overcoming destructive emotions.Sufism: Islamic mysticism which, through belief and practice, helps Muslims attain nearness to Allah by way of direct personal experience of God.Epicureanism: A philosophical system founded by Epicurus, centers on the pursuit of pleasure and the absence of pain as the path to happinessEucharist: Christian sacrament.Pistis: Greek word for ‘belief’/’trust.’Belieben: German word related to ‘love’/’believe.’Salvation: Theological concept of deliverance.The Good Samaritan: A biblical parable from Luke 10:29–37 that demonstrates the virtue of caring for even the most despised among us.Freeloader Problem: Concept regarding group contribution.Literal vs. Moral vs. Allegorical Meaning (Origen): Levels of scriptural interpretation.First Shall Be Last, Last Shall Be First: Biblical saying from Matthew 20:16.The More (William James): Term for transcendent reality.Burning Bush: Biblical story from Exodus 3.Lisan al Gaib: From Arabic — in Dune, this is the Fremen term for their offworld prophet or messiah.Concepts (Science/Math/Psychology)Gödel’s Incompleteness Theorems: Mathematical theorems showing limits of provability in formal systems, with deep implications for mathematics and logic.Predicate Logic: A branch of formal logic incorporating quantifiers, variables, and predicates to express relationships and make inferences about objects.Microtubules: Cellular structures in neurons’ cytoskeleton proposed by some theorists to play a role in consciousness through quantum processes.Neural Correlates of Consciousness (NCC): The minimal neural systems sufficient for specific conscious experiences, forming a key research program in neuroscience.Integrated Information Theory (IIT): Scientific theory proposing that consciousness emerges from complex integrated information systems in the brain.Phi: Measure of integrated information used in IIT to quantify the amount of consciousness in a system.Schrödinger Equation: Fundamental equation in quantum mechanics describing how quantum states evolve over time.Schrödinger’s Cat: Schrödinger’s famous thought experiment in quantum mechanics that is simultaneously kind and unkind to a feline frenemy.Superposition: Quantum mechanical principle where particles exist in multiple states simultaneously until measured.Born Rule: Fundamental rule in quantum mechanics that determines probability distributions of measurement outcomes.General Relativity: The geometric theory of gravitation published by Albert Einstein in 1915.Cosmological Constant: The simplest possible explanation for dark energy, used in the standard model of cosmology known as the ?CDM model.MAOIs (Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors): Class of chemicals that inhibit monoamine oxidase enzymes, used in antidepressants and found in ayahuasca.MoviesThe MatrixDuneDune: Part TwoInstitutions and OrganizationsDurham UniversityScientific AmericanWadham College, OxfordJohns Hopkins UniversityDepartment of Molecular and Cell Biology at UC BerkeleyOlive GardenEventsAsh Wednesday / LentBar MitzvahEleusinian MysteriesRelevant ResourcesChilean Sea Bass: How Patagonian Toothfish Was Saved | MSCAnnaka Harris: Is Consciousness Everywhere? | Mind ChatThe Mystical Experience Questionnaire (30 Questions) | TrippinglyMax Planck: “I Regard Consciousness as Fundamental…” | Big ThinkAI-Powered Answer Engine | PerplexityScientists Unveil New Results in Hunt to Pinpoint the Seat of Consciousness | Singularity HubThe Radical New Experiments That Hint at Plant Consciousness | New ScientistThe Great Schism That Divided East and West | EWTNThe Reformation | HistoryWhat Can Psychedelics Tell Us About Mind and Reality? | Mind ChatSHOW NOTES[00:00:00] Start.[00:06:24] What is panpsychism?[00:11:19] Common misunderstandings about panpsychism.[00:16:08] Roger Penrose and quantum consciousness.[00:17:26] Gödel’s incompleteness theorem.[00:19:22] The challenges of scientific consensus on consciousness.[00:21:35] Integrated Information Theory (IIT).[00:27:17] What early quantum pioneers like Max Planck and Niels Bohr thought about consciousness.[00:33:15] Defining consciousness and qualia.[00:35:41] Galileo’s Error: How science removed consciousness from study.[00:41:03] Materialist vs. panpsychist.[00:43:30] The neuroanatomical seat of consciousness debate.[00:45:41] Scientific challenges around the public observation of consciousness.[00:50:35] Exploring potential payoffs and ethical considerations of figuring out consciousness.[00:57:01] How virtual reality reminded Philip to appreciate ordinary reality.[01:00:31] Bertrand Russell and William James as philosophical heroes.[01:02:05] Science seems mum on the matter of matter.[01:06:53] William James and mystical experiences.[01:09:20] Philip’s journey as a “heretical Christian.”[01:19:23] Why Philip left Christianity at age 14.[01:20:20] Rediscovering mystical traditions within Christianity.[01:31:41] Karen Armstrong on the modern corruption of religious belief.[01:33:56] Is true belief a prerequisite for building a community through religion and enjoying its therapeutic benefits?[01:48:40] Psychedelics and numinous experiences.[01:51:36] Sufism and mystical poetry.[01:56:10] Renaming traditional religious terms for broader accessibility.[02:01:09] The potential resurgence of religion and new spiritual movements.[02:05:42] Philip’s billboard.[02:08:36] Parting thoughts.MORE PHILIP GOFF QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW“Panpsychism is the view that consciousness goes all the way down to the fundamental building blocks of reality.”
— Philip Goff
“Don’t start from ‘What do I want?’ Start from ‘How can I contribute?’ I think happiness flows from that.”
— Philip Goff
“The way the word ‘consciousness’ is standardly used, I think in both science and philosophy, it just means subjective experience. Your consciousness is just what it’s like to be you.”
— Philip Goff
“I’m not here saying, ‘Oh, this is the one true faith you’ve got to believe.’ … I’m interested in different experiments in living, and I think there’s a way of engaging religion that perhaps not everyone is fully aware of.”
— Philip Goff
“Physical science doesn’t really tell us what matter is … ultimately, at base, physics just gives us mathematical structure. And so in a sense, physics doesn’t care what matter is, it doesn’t care what physical reality is, it just cares what its mathematical structure is.”
— Philip Goff
“We don’t know if we can get consciousness out of physics, but we know we can get physics out of consciousness.”
— Philip Goff
[On the integrated information theory:] “The proposal is that at the exact moment when a system has more integrated information in the whole than in the parts, that’s when the lights come on. That’s when you get consciousness.”
— Philip Goff
The post Philip Goff — Exploring Consciousness and Non-Ordinary Religion, Galileo’s Error, Panpsychism, Heretical Ideas, and Therapeutic Belief (#805) appeared first on The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss.
April 9, 2025
How to Heal the Anxious Self — David Whyte
David Whyte (davidwhyte.com) is the author of twelve books of poetry and five books of prose. He holds a degree in marine zoology and has traveled extensively, including living and working as a naturalist guide in the Galapagos Islands and leading expeditions in the Andes, Amazon, and Himalayas. He has also hosted a live online series, Three Sundays, every other month since 2020.
I had the pleasure of sitting down with David for an interview a few months ago, and he proved as wonderful in person as he is on the page. During our conversation, he read from his most recent work, Consolations II. Now, I have a dog-eared hardcover copy by my bedside. It’s indispensable. No matter the challenge, dream, mystery, or feeling of stuckness, he has a poem or essay within that will help you.
I’ve recently been rereading one of his essays in particular, and David kindly agreed to allow me to share it with you here. I’ve bolded some of my favorite parts. If a sentence is bolded and underlined, I found it particularly impactful.
is the mask that truth wears when we refuse to stop and uncover its face: the disembodied state I feel when I pretend to put things right by worrying about them instead of conversing with them. Anxiety is my ever-present excuse for not truly resting into the body or the breath or a world where I might find out the truth. Anxiety is the temporary helper going by the name of worry, who, when turned into our constant live-in companion, becomes our formidable jailor.
In the midst of anxiety we always haunt the body like an unhappy ghost from the past instead of living in it as a live anticipation of our future: anxiety creates the ghost-like sense of living timidly in our mortal frames so that we begin living in the world in the same way: as a troubled guest; a guest who does not believe they deserve the rest and hospitality that the body, the breath or the world can offer. Anxiety is the mind refusing to be consoled and nourished either by the body itself, or the beauty of the world that this body inhabits: anxiety is an extended state of denial; the refusal to put right something that needs to be put right, because putting it right often means feeling real anguish, a real sense of the unknown and the need to change at a fundamental level.
Anxiety always tells us we are somehow just about to be injured by reality, by another or by the body itself: that nothing is to be trusted fully: our continued nervousness wasting the body’s powers by keeping up a heightened but unsustainable level of alertness. Nervousness loves further nervousness to confirm its fears; on the Internet I will find everything I need to feed my anxiety because anxiety is what makes me click as much as curiosity. Anxiety is difficult to shed because anxiety always refuses rest and rest is where the answer to anxiety lies. Rest feels as if we are letting down our guard and refusing to defend what we instinctively feel must be constantly defended to the last. Rest feels like a traitorous activity ignoring the fears that have come to make up our identity, anxiety is a dead end exactly because it refuses to look for real consolation.
Temporary worry is useful to us and allows us to identify and innumerate what has not yet been fully answered or done and therefore outlines what is important to us and what we care about: constant worry always goes over and over the same territory and becomes, in the refusal to move on, the anxiety that cripples: anxiety is the illusory state of non-attention where we imagine that the very worrying itself is a way of paying deeper attention, but anxiousness actually becomes our unconscious way of refusing to go any deeper with the very things we are spending our days, worrying about.
Constant anxiety is an unconscious defence against what is calling us to a deeper understanding. Ever-present anxiety actually covers over and prevents me from feeling fully what is praying on my mind. Constant anxiety is our constant way of not paying attention. Anxiety is the trembling surface identity that finds the full measure of our anguish too painful to bear, constant fretting is our way of turning away from and attempting to make a life free from the necessities of heartbreak. Anxiety is our greatest defence against the vulnerabilities of intimacy and a real understanding of others. Allowing our hearts to actually break might be the first step in freeing ourselves from anxiety.
Anxiety is a way of being temporarily absent that almost always turns into a permanent exile. The exile that anxiety creates is most grievously felt in the way we both live in our bodies and don’t live in our bodies at the same time. In order not to feel the full measure of my heartbreak, I refuse to let my body breathe in its own, easy natural way, I refuse to let myself feel I am in the right place at the right time; I refuse almost every invitational aspect of the world and see it only through the inverted telescope of my worries, where everything is made smaller, harder to see and harder to understand. My defence against a painful reality is to live in an unreal body in an unreal, besieged kind of time, and often in an unreal place; a place I don’t care about; I disallow myself the ability to stop and rest and the spacious silence needed for a full, easy, coming to ground in a new understanding.
In an anxious state I actually do not wish to understand, I only wish to worry: and in my worries, everything feels as if it is squeezed through the narrow aperture of my anxious body, causing it to tremble, to constrict and to hide inside that rheumatic constriction. I hurry from one thing to another, never actually landing, never feeling there is enough time, never making time to feel fully what is occurring both inside and outside my body. Anxiety, when I am lost, is often the only merciful way I can find to turn away from the pain the world caused me, is causing me and will cause me.
Anxiety is both my protection and the sure indication of my deepest vulnerabilities, all at the same time. What seems completely wrong with my life, with the world and with the time in which I live, is often my greatest, manufactured, defence against being fully part of this body, this world and this time. What I worry about and fret about for my children’s future is often what keeps me from helping them into that future. What I worry about and what I am anxious about keeps me in an insulated, busy state of mind that stops me feeling the true depth and vulnerability of how much I care, how much I want to make a difference and how much I feel powerless to do it. Anxiety is my temporary ally and my daily saviour from the abiding pain of real heartbreak. I am not anxious because I worry so much as I am anxious because I do not want to feel the full vulnerability of being visible and touchable in a difficult world.
Our anxiety is constantly calibrated by the sense of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, inhabiting one moment while thinking about another, thinking one thing while doing another, trying to live in another abstracted, ideal body while forgetting to eat or breathe in this one. Loss of weight and loss of the breath are two abiding symptoms of anxiety. Gaining weight and breathing in a laboured way are also magnified by the abstractions of anxiety. Anxiety is my way of not fully feeling the vulnerability of my body, and my world.
Constant fretting is my refuge but also, often the source of my loneliness, doubling as it does as a defence by keeping people at a distance. Anxiety begins in helpless worry, and then becomes a means of protection against our own ability to help others, a state which provides me with distance from my real, foundational sorrow, by keeping an equal distance from the grief of others. I worry but other people’s worries do not count.
Anxiety is a way of feeling constantly besieged and therefore allows me to be helpless to do anything about what lies beyond my walls. When I see everything as impinging on my life, I find it hard to have a sense of humour about the fundamentally amusing absurdities of every human life; when I see everything as an ecological threat, I find it difficult to live with the blessings of birdsong or the beauties of a passing cloud scape. When I worry constantly about the imperfections of my relationship, I keep my love at an equally constant distance. Anxiety is my ongoing excuse for not being intimate, anxiety is how I keep what I am worrying about from coming too close, anxiety enables me to stay well clear of my heartache.
Over time, constant anxiety is a form of amnesia, a forgetting and an absence. Anxiety becomes my beloved abstraction where I can keep myself in suspension, when I am afraid of getting to the bottom of things and allowing myself a true understanding. Emotional immobility is the state in which we find ourselves when we have lost sight of the silent, pivotal centre from which to speak, to take action or to harvest the wisdom of the spacious, the timely and the timeless.
Our vulnerability to constant worry is produced by a dynamic of the mind whose chief evolutionary task is actually to make us more anxious: to worry, to fret, and out of that worry and fret, to get things done, and out of getting things done, to survive; constant anxiety always in the end raises even the tiniest little threat to the level of existential survival. Anxiety makes every little thing a matter of life and death.
The cure for anxiety is almost always found in some kind of radical simplification, a simplification that slowly opens up a very physical, rested experience of timelessness. Often the heart of our simplification is the freeing realisation that we can do nothing about the worry except to let it go. From this place we learn not to leave our worries behind but to consciously worry only for brief necessary periods when worry is needed as a way of paying deeper attention. To briefly, consciously, worry in a way that brings things to a proper harvest of presence is always far more helpful than days of vague anxiety.
One of the greatest gifts we can give to our friends, our partners, our children or our colleagues might be to forsake anxiety: to realise how much we use our worrying as a barrier to our becoming and a protection against real intimacy, real friendship and real engagement with our work. One of our greatest gifts as a provider might be to stop all the worrying about those we are providing for; to provide something else, something that is more difficult to give but something they might actually want—a deeper, more rested, and invitational sense of presence and the gift of timelessness in that presence.
Luckily, all of our great contemplative traditions tell us that the way out of anxiety is always very close and abides just beneath the very surface of our worries, waiting for us to drop down into the body again to a better place. Every meditational tradition of mindfulness in the world tells us that our doorway to freedom is as simple and as close as learning to take the next breath; to take that breath as fully as possible, and then to learn how to give it easily back into the world. In breath and out breath, when taken and when given and when completed without a controlling, worrying thought is an instant doorway to release from anxiety. A mindful easing away from the restless, bullying, fretful mind, into the restful, invitational calmness of easy breathing is always the foundation from which we will re-inhabit the mind in a more spacious, generous, less worrisome way.
Anxiety and all the ways we feel the tremulous symptoms of anxiety tell us just how far away we are from inhabiting a real sense of the timeless. Anxiety is not an answer to a problem we are worrying about but the measure of our distance from the place where the answer lies. Our ability to escape from anxiety is found in our ability to do the simplest thing and to do it well: to breathe and to live easily in our breathing. This truth is too simple for the anxious mind to believe, therefore it is best to breathe in silence first and tell ourselves that we’ll get to curing our anxiety later. Anxiety cannot cure itself, the cure arrives while we are giving ourselves a real sense of rest. Anxiety is often created by trying to remember everything and keep it straight in our harried minds. No wonder then, that the cure for anxiety is found in learning to forget the very sense of self that first felt the fateful need to worry.
From Consolations II by David Whyte. ©2024 David Whyte & Many Rivers Press. All rights reserved. Shared with permission. www.davidwhyte.com.
P.S. David also happens to be good friends with past podcast guest Henry Shukman, one of only a few dozen masters in the world authorized to teach Sanbo Zen. If you’d like an extra dose of calm, I recommend checking out Henry’s app, The Way. It has changed my life. I’ve been using it daily, often twice a day, and it’s lowered my anxiety more than I thought possible. For 30 free sessions, just visit thewayapp.com/Tim. No credit card required.
The post How to Heal the Anxious Self — David Whyte appeared first on The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss.
April 3, 2025
Robert Rodriguez, The Wizard of Cinema Returns — The “Fear-Forward” Way of Life, How to Overcome Self-Doubt, Learning to Love Limitations, and Counter-Intuitive Parenting That Works (#804)
“Living is reliving.”
— Robert Rodriguez
Robert Rodriguez (@rodriguez) is a film director, screenwriter, producer, cinematographer, editor, and composer.
While a student at the University of Texas at Austin in 1991, Rodriguez wrote the script to his first feature film while sequestered at a drug research facility as a paid subject in a clinical experiment. That paycheck covered the cost of shooting his $7,000 film El Mariachi, which won the coveted Audience Award at the 1993 Sundance Film Festival and became the lowest budget movie ever released by a major studio. Rodriguez wrote about these experiences in Rebel Without a Crew, a perennial guide for the independent filmmaker.
Rodriguez went on to write, produce, direct, and edit a series of successful films including Desperado, From Dusk Till Dawn, The Faculty, the Spy Kids franchise, Once Upon a Time in Mexico, Frank Miller’s Sin City, and We Can Be Heroes and collaborated with director James Cameron on the film adaptation of Alita: Battle Angel. His films have grossed more than $1.5B at the box office.
In 2000, Rodriguez founded Troublemaker Studios in Austin, Texas. He recently directed the Lady Gaga/Ariana Grande video “Rain on Me” and episodes of The Mandalorian and The Book of Boba Fett and launched Brass Knuckle Films, an investable action film slate. If you’ve ever wanted to pitch Robert Rodriguez a film idea or get profit participation in action films and sequels, he’ll tell you all about it.
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, YouTube Music, Amazon Music, Audible, or on your favorite podcast platform. The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.
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Want to hear the first time Robert Rodriguez was on the show? Listen to our conversation here, in which we discussed journaling as a crucial component of personal and professional life, keeping crew morale high during a project, how applied creativity dissolves the separation between work and play, the legendary financing of El Mariachi, overcoming budgetary and technological constraints, maintaining momentum when lack of resources is no longer a creative driver, and much more.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Robert Rodriguez:Twitter | Instagram | Threads | Facebook
The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.
BooksRebel Without a Crew: Or How a 23-Year-Old Filmmaker with $7,000 Became a Hollywood Player by Robert RodriguezThe ONE Thing: The Surprisingly Simple Truth About Extraordinary Results by Gary Keller and Jay PapasanGetting Your First Job For Dummies by Roberto AnguloThe 4-Hour Workweek by Timothy FerrissThe Creative Act: A Way of Being by Rick RubinCompanies, Projects, and Platforms Brass Knuckle Films Troublemaker StudiosDouble R ProductionsSouth by SouthwestRobert’s Films and ShowsEl MariachiDesperadoFrom Dusk Till DawnFour RoomsSpy KidsSpy Kids 2: The Island of Lost DreamsSpy Kids 3: Game OverSpy Kids 4: All The Time In The WorldSpy Kids: ArmageddonFrank Miller’s Sin CityThe Adventures Of Shark Boy & Lava Girl In 3-DThe FacultyOnce Upon a Time in MexicoRed 11The LimitWe Can Be HeroesAlita: Battle AngelRebel Without a CrewLady Gaga, Ariana Grande — Rain On Me (Official Music Video)The Mandalorian — Chapter 14: The TragedyThe Book of Boba FettOther Films and ShowsJohn WickThe BeekeeperBeing ThereClerksDogmaForged in Fire: Wind and Fire Wheels (S5 E19)The Family StalloneProductsPositive Grid Spark NEO Wireless Guitar Headphone Amp and AI-Powered Guitar Rig | AmazonRelevant ResourcesThe “Wizard” of Hollywood, Robert Rodriguez | The Tim Ferriss Show #98Robert Rodriguez on Freedom of Limitations | Screenwriting from IowaRobert Rodriguez’s $7,000 El Mariachi Is Still One of His Best Films | ColliderRobert Rodriguez’s ‘Spy Kids’ Showed Us That Kids Have Something to Say. It’s Time to Listen. | Texas MonthlyRobert Rodriguez and Daughter Rhiannon Perform at Troublemaker Studios During SXSW | Deadline HollywoodInvest in Robert Rodriguez’s Brass Knuckle Films | RepublicLatino Filmmaker Robert Rodriguez Launches New Path for Independent Cinema | Austin VidaHow to Pitch a Movie in Seven Steps | MasterClassGary Keller — How to Focus on the One Important Thing | The Tim Ferriss Show #401Robert Rodriguez’s Unrealized Projects | WikipediaAbout the Directors’ Fortnight | Quinzaine des CinéastesRick Rubin, Legendary Producer — Timeless Methods for Unlocking Creativity, Secrets Hidden in Plain Sight, The Future with AI, Helpful Distractions, Working with Strong Personalities, Breaking Out of “The Sameness,” and More | The Tim Ferriss Show #649Robert Rodriguez: “Don’t Fear Failure” | Gulf TimesKevin Smith’s ‘Dogma’ Movie Returning to Theaters in June | The Hollywood ReporterRick Rubin on Cultivating World-Class Artists (Jay-Z, Johnny Cash, etc.), Losing 100+ Pounds, and Breaking Down The Complex | The Tim Ferriss Show #76The Creative Process with Robert Rodriguez | On Creativity #2Keith Richards’ Essential Advice for Songwriting | Far OutBenefits of Journaling and Tips for Getting Started | HealthlineFrom $7k Film Red 11 to Making Spy Kids: Armageddon for Netflix with Racer Max & Rebel Rodriguez | IFH #717Nepotism Definition and Meaning | Merriam-WebsterMaslow’s Hierarchy of Needs | Verywell Mind10 Unforgettable Angus Young Moments | LoudwirePeopleAntonio BanderasTamlyn TomitaDara TorresRhiannon RodriguezAlexa PenaVegaDaryl SabaraTom CruiseJames CameronLady GagaAriana GrandeGary KellerCarlos GallardoRacer RodriguezRebel RodriguezMichelle RodriguezNorman ReedusGeorge LucasSteven SpielbergElijah WoodRicardo MontalbánSylvester StalloneSuperman/Clark KentRick RubinKevin SmithKeith RichardsPeter SellersMiyamoto MusashiJohn WilliamsJames BondGeppettoObi-Wan KenobiJennifer Flavin StalloneAbraham MaslowRebecca RodriguezAngus YoungEddie Van HalenHello KittySHOW NOTES[00:00:00] Start.[00:08:19] Recounting what’s happened in the 10 years since Robert’s last appearance on the show.[00:11:23] The freedom of limitations.[00:14:08] Fruit-bearing “failures.”[00:16:09] How Robert stumbled onto his own brand of counterintuitive parenting.[00:18:42] How fan investing for Brass Knuckle Films works.[00:23:59] How to effectively pitch a movie idea.[00:26:55] The time to start your art is now. Aim high.[00:33:00] The value of learning by doing.[00:43:31] The power of labels to elevate or diminish our ambitions.[00:47:51] Why lack of access is a myth.[00:49:08] No human doubts — when not knowing is half the battle.[00:54:25] Fear forward past the confines of the comfort zone.[00:59:02] Interactions with the enigmatic Rick Rubin.[01:01:53] Harnessing the creative spirit: action first, inspiration second.[01:07:00] Living is reliving: why Robert wants you to start journaling.[01:15:38] “Don’t just parent. Partner.”[01:22:47] In defense of what some call nepotism.[01:28:27] Why the double R naming scheme in the Rodriguez household?[01:30:04] Tribe talk.[01:33:38] Robert’s favorite exercise-related life hack: the rock walk.[01:36:15] Parting thoughts.MORE ROBERT RODRIGUEZ QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW“A lot of times, when you can do anything, you can’t do anything.”
— Robert Rodriguez
“Two of my biggest movies came directly from a movie that you would consider a failure. … Sometimes the only way across the river is to slip on the first two rocks.”
— Robert Rodriguez
“You’re not ready for anything life has thrown at you, but you become ready on the spot. Why is it that we think art and life should not be the same?”
— Robert Rodriguez
“You used to ask me, ‘How do you get so much done?’ It’s like I set the bridge on fire and then I run across. Otherwise, it’s not enough at stake. If you have a way out … you’ll take the escape route.”
— Robert Rodriguez
“They say knowing is half the battle. What’s the other half? Not knowing. I think that’s more important. That’s where the magic is. You don’t know what the other half is.”
— Robert Rodriguez
“Creative spirit … doesn’t have hands. It’s waiting for you to get off your ass and pick up the pen, and then it can help take over. … That’s why I say always take action. Don’t wait to be inspired. Action first, inspiration second.”
— Robert Rodriguez
“Living is reliving.”
— Robert Rodriguez
“Don’t just parent; partner.”
— Robert Rodriguez
“I don’t take any job, any assignment, unless it’s going to involve my children, because life is so good that way. You’re checking all the boxes. You’re preparing them for life. You’re learning from them, they’re learning from you, and it’s family time.”
— Robert Rodriguez
The post Robert Rodriguez, The Wizard of Cinema Returns — The “Fear-Forward” Way of Life, How to Overcome Self-Doubt, Learning to Love Limitations, and Counter-Intuitive Parenting That Works (#804) appeared first on The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss.
March 28, 2025
Craig Mod Returns — Epic Walks in Japan, The Art of Slowness, Digital Detox, Publishing “Impossible” Books, and Choosing Beauty Over Scale (#803)
“I would finish every day on these walks, get in bed, and just feel that was the fullest possible way I could have experienced that day. Given the cards dealt to me of this day, there was no fuller version of this day.”
— Craig Mod
As promised, welcome to round 2 with Craig Mod!
Craig Mod is a writer, photographer, and walker living in Tokyo and Kamakura, Japan. He is the author of Things Become Other Things and Kissa by Kissa. He also writes the newsletters Roden and Ridgeline and has contributed to The New York Times, The Atlantic, Wired, and more.
He’s walked thousands of miles across Japan, and since 2016, he has been co-running “Walk and Talks” with Kevin Kelly in various places around the world: the Cotswolds, Northern Thailand, walking across Bali, Southern China, Japan, Spain (Portuguese and French Caminos), and more. He’s a MacDowell fellow, Virginia Center for Creative Arts fellow, and Ragdale fellow.
In 2023 he wrote an impassioned recommendation of Morioka, Japan, to The New York Times, prompting the paper to rank the city number two (behind London) for “Places to Visit in 2023,” turning Mod into a minor celebrity. He sat for interviews with some forty or fifty newspapers and TV shows, trying to explain the goodness of a city like Morioka to people for whom the goodness is so self-evident that it has become invisible. This whole media dance culminated in his going on a two-day walk around Morioka with one of Japan’s biggest TV stars: the seventy-nine-year-old, sunglasses-wearing Tamori -san, who was lovely (and very tiny!). The response—a total heartfelt reverence for the avuncular Tamori—from people on the street (“Good morning, Tamori -san!,” yelled construction workers from atop their scaffolding) made Mod feel like he was walking with John Lennon. Mod’s moment of celebrity was mercifully short-lived. Nobody recognizes him anymore when he walks around town.
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, YouTube Music, Amazon Music, Audible, or on your favorite podcast platform.
This episode is brought to you by Shopify global commerce platform, providing tools to start, grow, market, and manage a retail business; Momentous high-quality supplements; and Helix Sleep premium mattresses.

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Want to hear round one of this conversation with Craig Mod? Listen here as we discuss Craig’s journey from a post-industrial Connecticut town to Japan, advice for adults who want to pick up the Japanese language, bizarre homestay stories, struggles with spirits of sauce and the supernatural, and much more.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Craig Mod:Website | Bluesky | Instagram | YouTube | Roden (Monthly Newsletter) | Ridgeline (Weekly Newsletter)
Books and Written WorksThings Become Other Things: A Walking Memoir by Craig ModKissa by Kissa: A 1,000 km Walk Along the Nakasendo by Craig ModRoden: A Monthly Newsletter by Craig ModRidgeline: A Weekly Newsletter on Walking, Japan, Literature, and Photography by Craig ModArt Space Tokyo: An Intimate Guide to the Tokyo Art World by Ashley Rawlings, Craig Mod, and Nobumasa TakahashiWalking Across Japan, Disconnected and Bored by Craig ModMy ‘Rules’ for Running My Membership Program by Craig ModThe Walk and Talk: Everything We Know by Craig ModThe End of Children by Gideon Lewis-Kraus | The New Yorker52 Places to Go (2025 | 2024 | 2023) | The New York TimesNew York Times Pick 2025: Toyama and Noto by Craig ModYamaguchi City — My ‘New York Times’ Pick This Year by Craig ModThe Morioka Experience by Craig ModOku No Hosomichi by Matsuo BashōSilo Series by Hugh HoweyBird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life by Anne LamottCloud Atlas: A Novel by David MitchellNumber9Dream: A Novel by David MitchellGhostwritten by David MitchellBlack Swan Green by David MitchellThe Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet: A Novel by David MitchellMovies and TV ShowsPerfect DaysTokyo-GaSeven SamuraiSanma No Aji (aka An Autumn Afternoon)SiloBlade RunnerBlack MirrorBura TamoriE.T. The Extra-TerrestrialPeopleWim Wenders: German filmmaker (Perfect Days, Tokyo-Ga).Yasujirō Ozu: Influential Japanese filmmaker known for quiet family dramas, contemporary of Kurosawa.Akira Kurosawa: Famous Japanese filmmaker (Seven Samurai).Matsuo Bashō: Most famous poet of the Edo period in Japan, known for haiku and his travelogue Oku no Hosomichi.John McBride: Craig Mod’s older mentor, former Monbukagakusho scholar, CEO of Sky TV, tea ceremony expert, accomplished walker, fluent in high-level Japanese. Huge influence on Craig’s walking and interaction style.Brad Towle: Canadian man on the JET program in Tanabe City, key figure in promoting the Nakahechi trail in English.Rupert Murdoch: Mentioned as founder connected to Sky TV.Masayoshi Son: CEO of SoftBank, mentioned as an acquaintance of John McBride.David Spector: Mentioned as an example of a gaijin tarento (foreign celebrity) in Japan during the ’90s.Kevin Kelly: Writer, co-founder of Wired, friend and walking partner of Craig Mod (Walk & Talks). Encouraged Craig in various ventures.Dan Rubin: Photographer friend who walked Kumano Kodo with Craig and co-created a photo book.Hugh Howey: Author (Silo series/Wool), walked Kumano Kodo with Craig and Kevin Kelly.Anne Lamott: Author of Bird by Bird.Noah Kagan: Friend of Tim Ferriss, mentioned regarding skepticism about chasing scale.gray318 (Jon Gray): Designer (known for Zadie Smith covers) who provided feedback to Craig.Zadie Smith: Author whose book covers Jon Gray designed.Bryan: Craig Mod’s childhood best friend who was murdered; a central figure in the book Things Become Other Things.Terry Gross: Host of NPR’s “Fresh Air,” mentioned as a platform often requiring traditional publisher backing.Andy Ward: Publisher/President of Random House, editor of George Saunders, involved in acquiring Craig’s book.George Saunders: Author admired by Craig Mod, edited by Andy Ward.Molly Turpin: Craig Mod’s editor at Random House for Things Become Other Things.Brandon Sanderson: Author mentioned regarding securing specific book rights (leather-bound editions).Gideon Lewis-Kraus: Writer mentioned for an article on Korea’s declining birthrate.Tamori (Tamori-san): Extremely famous, long-running Japanese TV celebrity who did a walking special in Morioka with Craig Mod.Neil Strauss: Writer, mentioned as a user of the Freedom software.Jack Kornfield: Meditation teacher and author who knows a thing or two about self-compassion.David Mitchell: Author (Cloud Atlas, etc.), admired Craig’s book Things Become Other Things and provided a blurb/email.PlacesTokyo: Capital city. Mentioned contexts: Shinjuku, Kabukichō, Golden Gai, starting point for walks, setting for films.Kii Peninsula: Location of Kumano Kodo, Koyasan.Koyasan: Shingon Buddhist center on Kii Peninsula, location of significant graveyard (Okunoin).Nara Prefecture: The cradle of Japanese civilization.Wakayama Prefecture: Prefecture that invested heavily in promoting the Nakahechi trail.Tanabe City: City in Wakayama Prefecture involved in Nakahechi promotion.Yamagata: Prefecture containing Dewa Sanzan.Dewa Sanzan: Three sacred mountains in Yamagata, known for syncretism.Edo: Former name for Tokyo.Palo Alto: Where Craig lived briefly.Pacifica: A place where Craig walked with Kevin Kelly.Kyoto: Historic city, destination of Nakasendo/Tōkaidō, location of Vipassana retreat Craig attended.Saitama, Nagano, Gifu: Prefectures along the Nakasendo route.Korea: Mentioned for its extremely low birthrate.Midsize Japanese Cities (from “Tiny Barber Post Office” Tour): Hakodate, Morioka, Sakata, Matsumoto, Tsuruga, Onomichi, Yamaguchi, Karatsu, Kagoshima, Matsuyama.Morioka: City in Iwate Prefecture (Tohoku region), recommended by Craig, ranked #2 on NYT 52 Places list (2023), leading to media attention and walk with Tamori.Iwate Prefecture: Location of Morioka.Tohoku: Northern region of Japan.Sendai, Fukushima: Other cities on the Tohoku Shinkansen line.Asheville: US city used as a comparison point for Morioka.Yamaguchi City: Recommended by Craig, ranked #3 on NYT list (2024). Contains Yuda Onsen (Sansuien Inn). Starting point for Hagi Ōkan walk.Hagi City: Destination of Hagi Ōkan walk.Yuda Onsen: Onsen town within Yamaguchi City.Sansuien Inn: Specific recommended inn in Yuda Onsen.Mount Hiei: Location associated with the Marathon Monks.Toyama City: Recommended by Craig for NYT list (2025).Osaka: Mentioned relative to Toyama’s ranking, hosting Expo.Southern China, Thailand, Bali, England (Cotswold Way, Lake District), Spain (Camino de Santiago): Locations of Craig’s walks outside Japan, often with Kevin Kelly.Nagasaki (Dejima): Historical trading post, setting for David Mitchell’s book.Hiroshima: City where David Mitchell lived.Walks, Routes, and TrailsOku no Hosomichi: Famous trail/journey undertaken by Bashō, later walked by John McBride.Tōkaidō: Major historical road connecting Edo (Tokyo) and Kyoto along the coast. Also the name of a Shinkansen line. Walked by John McBride, Craig Mod.Shikoku Pilgrimage: Route around Shikoku island, walked by John McBride.Kumano Kodo: Network of pilgrimage trails on the Kii Peninsula, UNESCO World Heritage site. Includes specific trails: Kohechi, Nakahechi, Ohechi, Iseji, Omine Okugake Michi.Camino de Santiago: Famous pilgrimage trail in Spain, sister trail to Kumano Kodo, UNESCO site. Walked by Craig.Dewa Sanzan: Pilgrimage route involving three mountains in Yamagata.Nakasendo: Major historical inland road connecting Edo (Tokyo) and Kyoto through the mountains. Walked extensively by Craig.Hime Kaidō: “Princess Route,” a detour on the Tōkaidō.Hagi Ōkan: Two-day walk connecting Yamaguchi City and Hagi City.Wainwright Coast to Coast: Walk across Northern England from the Lake District.Cotswold Way: Walk in England, done twice by Craig with Kevin Kelly’s groups.Institutions, Organizations, Companies, Software, and PlatformsTokyo Toilet: Public art/infrastructure project in Tokyo, possible inspiration for Perfect Days.Monbukagakusho (MEXT): Japanese Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology; offered scholarships (John McBride was a recipient).UNESCO: United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization. Designated Kumano Kodo and Camino de Santiago as World Heritage Pilgrimage trails.(Japan Exchange and Teaching Program (JET): Program placing foreign nationals (often as English teachers) in Japan, usually outside major cities. Brad participated.Sky TV: Satellite television network; John McBride was CEO in Japan.SoftBank: Japanese multinational conglomerate; John McBride knew CEO Son-san.Kickstarter: Crowdfunding platform used for Art Space Tokyo reprint.Apple TV: Streaming platform airing the Silo adaptation.Craig Mod Membership Program: Craig’s community funding his work, discussed extensively regarding its rules and philosophy.Wired Magazine: Publication that published Craig’s essay.Freedom (.to): Website blocking software used by Craig and Neil Strauss.Penguin Random House: Major publishing house that published Things Become Other Things.Mack Press: UK-based photo book publisher mentioned for context on typical art book print runs.Ancestry.com: DNA testing and genealogy company where Craig matched with his birth mother.23andMe: DNA testing company Craig initially used.Instagram: Social media platform mentioned re: Teemus Photo.Teemusphoto.com: Website recommended for nighttime Japan photography.YouTube: Video platform.Substack: Newsletter/publishing platform.Memberful: Membership software platform.Patreon: Membership/creator funding platform.SMS Experiment Tool: Custom one-to-many SMS tool Craig built for his walk.iOS Shortcuts / Siri: Apple features used by Craig for voice dictation while walking.Shopify: E-commerce platform used by Craig for Craigstarter.Craigstarter: Craig’s self-built Kickstarter clone.Google Translate: Mentioned by Tim Ferriss as helpful for non-Japanese speakers.ConceptsSix-Tatami-Mat Room: A small traditional Japanese room size, Craig lived in one for years. Used as a visual reference via Perfect Days.Tatami Mat: Traditional Japanese flooring mat, used historically as a unit for room size.Syncretism: The blending or coexistence of different religions/beliefs, specifically Shinto and Buddhism in Japan.Meiji Restoration: Historical period (~1868 onward) marking the end of the Shogunate, restoration of imperial rule, modernization, and forced separation of Shinto and Buddhism.Shukubo: The practice of staying overnight at a Buddhist temple.Shogunate / Daimyo: Feudal military government / feudal lords in Japan.Tea Ceremony (Chanoyu): Traditional Japanese cultural activity involving the preparation and presentation of matcha; practiced extensively by John McBride.Keigo: Japanese polite language, involving different levels of respect and humility.Gaijin Tarento: Foreign celebrities or personalities featured in Japanese media.Craig’s Walking Rules: Craig’s personal rules for his long walks (no news/social media, cultivate boredom, don’t teleport/distract, say hello, arbitrary photo goals, pre-book logistics).Vipassana Retreat: Silent meditation retreat focused on observing reality as it is; Craig attended a 10-day retreat.Shugyo: Ascetic spiritual training, often involving physical hardship.Yamabushi: Japanese mountain ascetics.Bobbing Consciousness: Craig’s term for the feeling achieved after many days of walking long distances.Sankin-kōtai: Edo-period policy requiring daimyo to spend alternate years in Edo, necessitating road infrastructure like the Nakasendo and Tōkaidō.Shōshika Mondai: Societal issue of declining birthrates in Japan.Kōreika Shakai: Societal issue of an aging population in Japan.Kissaten: Traditional, often Showa-era, Japanese coffee shops/cafes.Shōwa Era: Period of Japanese history from 1926-1989.Pizza Toast: Simple dish often served in kissaten (toast with tomato sauce, cheese, etc.).Napolitan Spaghetti: Simple pasta dish often served in kissaten (spaghetti with ketchup-based sauce).Product-Market Fit (PMF): Business concept regarding a product satisfying market demand.Jeffersonian Dinner: Dinner format with a single group conversation, used on the Walk & Talks.Shinto: Indigenous Japanese religion/spirituality.Buddhism: Religion practiced widely in Japan.Konbini: Japanese convenience store.Haiku: Japanese poetic form associated with Bashō.SHOW NOTES[00:00:00] Start.[00:07:25] More than a decade of Perfect Days in a six-tatami mat room.[00:10:44] The first steps of Craig’s huge walks: exploring Tokyo’s nightlife.[00:17:33] Discovering pilgrimage trails with John McBride.[00:22:49] What’s so appealing about pilgrimage trails?[00:31:25] Learning politeness and language in Japan.[00:40:09] An invitation from Kevin Kelly.[00:41:23] The birth of a photo book.[00:42:50] The big solo walks begin.[00:43:53] Launching a membership program.[00:44:58] The Nakasendō experience.[00:50:01] Craig’s rules for walking.[00:51:04] The Vipassana influence.[01:00:43] Logistics of walking in Japan.[01:09:03] Depopulation and pizza toast.[01:13:42] How Kissa by Kissa came to be (and its unexpected success).[01:16:34] Kicking off Craigstarter.[01:17:47] The pièce de résistance membership strategy.[01:18:41] Finding product-market fit.[01:19:12] The importance of sustainable scale.[01:19:50] Membership community rules.[01:27:15] Navigating the publishing world.[01:38:37] Promoting midsize cities in Japan as a wild and strange celebrity.[01:52:50] The economic and cultural effects of this promotion.[01:54:46] Hidden gems and walks in Japan.[01:56:56] Walking beyond Japan.[01:59:47] Craig was a Mod before you was a mod.[02:00:47] How Craig reconnected with his birth family.[02:19:32] Reflections and future plans.[02:23:00] Parting thoughts.MORE CRAIG MOD QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW“I would finish every day on these walks, get in bed, and just feel that was the fullest possible way I could have experienced that day. Given the cards dealt to me of this day, there was no fuller version of this day.”
— Craig Mod
“I love my scale because it’s sustainable. It gives me total creative freedom.”
— Craig Mod
“If you spend 30 days doing that physical activity every day to that degree, your body changes. You become what I call a bobbing consciousness. By day 20, 25 on the road where you’re walking 20, 30, 40k, your legs are just so powerful.”
— Craig Mod
“One of the weirdest things about being a contemporary human is, first of all, we’re never bored because we always have this stupid Black Mirror slab in our pocket that’s always distracting us with some other dopamine hit.”
— Craig Mod
The post Craig Mod Returns — Epic Walks in Japan, The Art of Slowness, Digital Detox, Publishing “Impossible” Books, and Choosing Beauty Over Scale (#803) appeared first on The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss.
March 27, 2025
Craig Mod — The Real Japan, Cheap Apartments in Tokyo, Productive Side Quests, Creative Retreats, Buying Future Freedom, and Being Possessed by Spirits (#802)
“Part of what was great about Japan was that as soon as I landed, I felt a few things. One was society was taking care of people. I was walking past so many people every day in the street who were so much better taken care of than where I came from.”
— Craig Mod
Craig Mod is a writer, photographer, and walker living in Tokyo and Kamakura, Japan. He is the author of Things Become Other Things and Kissa by Kissa. He also writes the newsletters Roden and Ridgeline and has contributed to The New York Times, The Atlantic, Wired, and more.
He’s walked thousands of miles across Japan, and since 2016, he has been co-running “Walk and Talks” with Kevin Kelly in various places around the world: the Cotswolds, Northern Thailand, walking across Bali, Southern China, Japan, Spain (Portuguese and French Caminos), and more. He’s a MacDowell fellow, Virginia Center for Creative Arts fellow, and Ragdale fellow.
In 2023 he wrote an impassioned recommendation of Morioka, Japan, to The New York Times, prompting the paper to rank the city number two (behind London) for “Places to Visit in 2023,” turning Mod into a minor celebrity. He sat for interviews with some forty or fifty newspapers and TV shows, trying to explain the goodness of a city like Morioka to people for whom the goodness is so self-evident that it has become invisible. This whole media dance culminated in his going on a two-day walk around Morioka with one of Japan’s biggest TV stars: the seventy-nine-year-old, sunglasses-wearing Tamori -san, who was lovely (and very tiny!). The response—a total heartfelt reverence for the avuncular Tamori—from people on the street (“Good morning, Tamori -san!,” yelled construction workers from atop their scaffolding) made Mod feel like he was walking with John Lennon. Mod’s moment of celebrity was mercifully short-lived. Nobody recognizes him anymore when he walks around town.
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, YouTube Music, Amazon Music, Audible, or on your favorite podcast platform.
This episode is brought to you by David Protein Bars with 28g of protein, 150 calories, and 0g of sugar; Eight Sleep’s Pod 4 Ultra sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating; and AG1 all-in-one nutritional supplement.

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Want to hear another podcast episode with a dedicated literary champion? Listen to my conversation with Brandon Sanderson in which we discussed building a fiction empire, creating $40M+ Kickstarter campaigns, unbreakable habits, the art of world-building, the science of magic systems, and much more.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Craig Mod:Website | Bluesky | Instagram | Roden (Monthly Newsletter) | Ridgeline (Weekly Newsletter)
Books and Written WorksThings Become Other Things: A Walking Memoir by Craig ModKissa by Kissa: A 1,000 km Walk Along the Nakasendo by Craig ModRoden: A Monthly Newsletter by Craig ModRidgeline: A Weekly Newsletter on Walking, Japan, Literature, and Photography by Craig ModUlysses by James JoyceWhere’s Waldo? by Martin HandfordThe Sun Also Rises by Ernest HemingwayA Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius: A Memoir Based on a True Story by Dave EggersThe Stranger by Albert CamusAtomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones by James ClearGF1 Field Test: 16 Days In the Himalayas by Craig ModBooks in the Age of the iPad by Craig ModThe Elements of Typographic Style by Robert BringhurstTrain Dreams: A Novella by Denis JohnsonComing Through Slaughter by Michael OndaatjeLittle, Big by John CrowleyPilgrim at Tinker Creek by Annie DillardThrilled to Death by Lynne TillmanWhat I Found on the 365-Mile Trail of a Lost Folk Hero by Sam AndersonAn Endless, Gritty, Very Spitty Walk by Craig ModNeuromancer by William GibsonPattern Recognition by William GibsonPeopleKevin KellyMatt MullenwegEvan WilliamsBill GatesKenny McCormickJohn MaedaBen FryCasey ReasJoshua MosleySharka HylandErnest HemingwayDave EggersJohn UpdikeDalai LamaBrandon SandersonJiro OnoRich RollJeffrey ZeldmanJason Santa MariaLiz DanzicoOliver ReichensteinStephen KingMike McCueMarcos WeskampMike MatasSteve JobsEnrique AllenBen HenretigStewart BrandForrest GumpRob GiampietroFrank ChimeroJohn D. RockefellerLynne TillmanDenis JohnsonOcean VuongMichael OndaatjeJohn CrowleyMaya AngelouAnnie DillardSam AndersonLeathermanBryanBetsy DeVosAmaterasuWilliam GibsonSally MannMovies and TV ShowsSliding DoorsLifestyles of the Rich and FamousSouth ParkSin CityParanormal ActivityThe MatrixJiro Dreams of SushiForrest GumpComing to AmericaI Am LegendMementoThe WireWhat Remains: The Life and Work of Sally MannInstitutions, Organizations, and CompaniesCarnegie HallFlipboardPower ExchangeDiscordE-TradeBloggerWaseda UniversitySchool of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) at University of LondonBerg GroupKinokuniyaDigital Media Design (DMD) Program at UPennMIT Media LabNew York University (NYU)Carnegie Mellon University (CMU)McSweeney’s Internet TendencyRazorfishKinko’sK10kCSS Zen GardenArt Directors ClubWinterhouseSouth by Southwest (SXSW)Information Architects (iA)Stanford d.schoolSally’s ApizzaWiredMacDowell ColonySchool for Visual Arts (SVA)Interaction Design Program (at SVA)Penguin Random HouseKissatenVirginia Center for the Creative Arts (VCCA)Tin HouseRagdaleConcepts and TechnologiesInternet Relay Chat (IRC)Point-to-Point Protocol (PPP)NCSA MosaicANSI ArtInternet Service Provider (ISP)’93 Honda CivicKotatsuPanasonic GF1Micro Four Thirds (MFT)Cascading Style Sheets (CSS)AsceticismFreedom AppPlacesSan FranciscoSilicon ValleyConnecticutNew ZealandShinjukuFukuokaLhasaAnnapurna Base CampPokharaAnnapurnaMachapuchareGinzaKii PeninsulaKyotoHonshuShikokuKyushuOkinawaOsakaIse Jingu ShrineKumano KodoMie PrefectureWakayama PrefectureNara PrefectureKamikura Jinja ShrineRelevant ResourcesThe Dot-Com Bubble: A Historical Perspective And A Cautionary Tale For The Age Of AI | IOSR Journal Of Humanities And Social ScienceDo Musicians Make Better Language Learners? | Psychology TodayUdon vs. Soba Noodles: What’s the Difference? | All Recipes‘Getting Help’ Is Not Un-Japanese; It’s Expensive | Japan TodayHow to Deal with Cockroaches in Japanese Housing | Japan MobilityJapan’s Cockroach Girl Situation is Crazy | PaahtisLevels of Formality in Japanese (How to Know When to Use Which) | Argos MultilingualColor Blindness | National Eye InstituteDemon Directories: On Listing and Living with Tibetan Worldly Spirits | A Perfumed SkullHow Rich Roll Overcame Addiction to Become a World-Class Endurance Athlete | Next Big Idea ClubMoraine Types | AntarcticGlaciers.orgBrandon Sanderson on Building a Fiction Empire, Creating $40M+ Kickstarter Campaigns, Unbreakable Habits, The Art of World-Building, and The Science of Magic Systems | The Tim Ferriss Show #794Stab a Book, the Book Won’t Die | Craig ModWhat Does It Mean to Be Touch Starved? | HealthlineA Need to Walk | Craig ModHow to Find the Perfect Kissaten | Tokyo WeekenderWilliam Gibson’s Future Is Now | The New York TimesSpecial Projects Membership | Craig ModSHOW NOTES[00:00:00] Start.[00:06:49] What would make this a worthwhile conversation?[00:09:14] How Craig and I first met.[00:11:06] Growing up in a post-industrial Connecticut town.[00:13:10] The kindness of a tech-savvy stranger.[00:14:02] IRC, ANSI art scene, and making connections in the Internet’s early days.[00:15:48] From adoption to exploring hometown escape options.[00:18:28] Driving cross-country to a Silicon Valley internship.[00:20:05] Pursuing the desire to live abroad.[00:22:14] Attending Waseda University in Japan at age 19.[00:23:34] Seduced by the Ivy League: A momentary return to the States for a UPenn education.[00:24:52] Craig’s advice for adults who want to pick up the Japanese language.[00:29:04] Bizarre homestay experiences.[00:41:04] How Craig wound up back in Japan to work in publishing.[00:42:55] Developing design sensibilities at UPenn with Sharka Hyland and Joshua Mosley.[00:47:30] Craig’s color blindness and its influence on his design aesthetic.[00:49:54] Without a time machine, Craig lives vicariously through his daughter’s opportunities.[00:51:36] Struggling with spirits of sauce and the supernatural .[00:56:02] A Tibetan dream reader and lost love.[00:59:53] Craig’s journey to self-worth: Running, charging more for work, and building confidence.[01:01:51] The transformative experience of climbing to Annapurna Base Camp in Nepal.[01:04:40] Writing a camera review that went viral and paid rent for two years.[01:10:33] The article that changed Craig’s life.[01:16:39] The enduring power of physical books in the digital age.[01:21:06] How being adopted prepared Craig for life as an outsider no matter where he hangs his hat.[01:25:25] Craig’s time at Flipboard.[01:29:24] Writing in hotel rooms on weekends.[01:30:14] Meeting Kevin Kelly and landing a MacDowell writing residency.[01:32:51] Bridges burned and discoveries made at MacDowell.[01:40:16] Justifying a round two.[01:41:17] Craig’s advice for aspiring creatives.[01:45:12] Books Craig has reread multiple times.[01:49:43] The story behind Craig’s new book, Things Become Other Things.[02:01:47] Craig’s Special Projects membership program.[02:04:08] In praise of unexpected corners.[02:06:25] Lessons learned from the Sally Mann documentary.[02:07:34] Parting thoughts and a preview of round two (coming later this week).MORE CRAIG MOD QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW“As an adopted person, I think my entire life is defined by that flailing. You just don’t feel like you belong anywhere.”
— Craig Mod
“In general, language learning is easier if you have a musical background. And I grew up all through my teens obsessively playing drums, just drumming, drumming, drumming, playing jazz, playing classical, playing in big band orchestras, playing everything.”
— Craig Mod
“Part of what was great about Japan was that as soon as I landed, I felt a few things. One was society was taking care of people. I was walking past so many people every day in the street who were so much better taken care of than where I came from.”
— Craig Mod
“The amount of scarcity I felt as an adult in my twenties is just shocking. It was this fathomless sense of scarcity, like the money’s not going to be there, the love isn’t going to be there, the support isn’t going to be there. And then when I lost her, I was like, I’m never going to have anyone who will ever love me like this person loved me, and I’m never going to be able to create like I created with this person. And I had to start proving to myself that that wasn’t true.”
— Craig Mod
“There’s a huge safety of being in a place that can never throw you away because you’re never going to be part of the thing.”
— Craig Mod
“It is just undeniable that a fullness of life that I find is found through the writing and who that connects me with and the adventures it brings me on.”
— Craig Mod
The post Craig Mod — The Real Japan, Cheap Apartments in Tokyo, Productive Side Quests, Creative Retreats, Buying Future Freedom, and Being Possessed by Spirits (#802) appeared first on The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss.
March 20, 2025
Ev Williams — The Art of Pivoting (e.g., Odeo to Twitter), Strategic Quitting, The Dangers of Premature Scaling, Must-Read Books, and More (#800)
“You can set a goal to run a marathon, and you can download a training regime, and you can go run the marathon. You can’t do that to invent the computer or Twitter or create amazing art. You can’t plot it. And to the extent you try to plot it, you shoot yourself in the foot because you cut off the possibilities that lie before you.”
— Ev Williams
Ev Williams (@ev) is the co-founder and chairman of Mozi, a new social network that helps you connect in person with the people you care about. Over the past 25 years, Ev has co-founded several companies that have helped shape the modern internet—including Blogger, Medium, and Twitter. Ev is also the co-founder of Obvious Ventures, an investment firm that focuses on world-positive companies addressing major systemic problems. Ev grew up on a farm in Clarks, Nebraska, has two sons, and lives mostly in the Bay Area.
This episode was recorded live at Diggnation (diggnation.show), where digg.com was relaunched. Digg was recently acquired by its original founder, my friend Kevin Rose, and reddit co-founder Alexis Ohanian, and they invited me along for all the fun and surprises as they celebrated the relaunch. Go to digg.com and sign up to get early access when invites go out.
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, YouTube Music, Amazon Music, Audible, or on your favorite podcast platform.
This episode is brought to you by David Protein Bars with 28g of protein, 150 calories, and 0g of sugar; Sundays for Dogs ultra-high-quality dog food; and Wealthfront high-yield cash account.

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Want to hear another fun live recording from Austin, TX? Check out my conversation with Kevin Rose:
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Ev Williams:Obvious Ventures | Twitter | Medium | Instagram | Threads | LinkedIn
ConceptsHackathonThe Sunk Cost FallacyOpportunity CostSocial Emotional Learning (SEL)BuddhismThe Hoffman ProcessMindfulnessTranscendental Meditation (TM)Quantum PhysicsMonismMaterialismCrossing the RubiconCompanies & InstitutionsMoziBloggerMediumTwitterObvious VenturesDiggFacebookOdeoGoogleUberY CombinatorOpenAIPlaxoHoffman InstituteTechnologiesText Messaging (40404 for Twitter)Video Home System (VHS)File Transfer Protocol (FTP)TerminalThe World Wide Web (WWW)UsenetGopherBlogPodcastsFlashSmartphonesAOL Instant Messenger (AIM)The Way (Meditation App)Application Programming Interface (API)Really Simple Syndication (RSS)BooksQuit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away by Annie DukeThinking in Bets: Making Smarter Decisions When You Don’t Have All the Facts by Annie DukeThe 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Timothy FerrissZen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry into Values by Robert M. PirsigThe Effective Executive: The Definitive Guide to Getting the Right Things Done by Peter F. DruckerWhy Greatness Cannot Be Planned: The Myth of the Objective by Kenneth O. Stanley and Joel LehmanFight ClubThe One: How an Ancient Idea Holds the Future of Physics by Heinrich PäsWhat’s Our Problem? A Self-Help Book for Societies by Tim UrbanLittle, Big: or, The Fairies’ Parliament by John CrowleyAll Fours: A Novel by Miranda JulyMovies & ShowsAnchorman: The Legend of Ron BurgundyFight ClubEvents & VenuesSouth by Southwest (SXSW)DiggnationMohawkStubb’s BBQPeopleKevin RoseAlexis OhanianBiz StoneAnnie DukeJack DorseyHugh ForrestRobert PirsigPeter DruckerKen StanleyJoel LehmanHenry ShukmanDick CostoloHeinrich PäsJames JoaquinTim UrbanJohn CrowleyMiranda JulyRelevant ResourcesA Journey on the Information Highway by Evan Williams (Speech) | James ClearEv Williams’s Favorite Books | One Grand (Later republished in The New York Times as referenced in the conversation, but this version doesn’t have a paywall!)25% of YC’s Latest Startups Are Letting AI Write 95% of Their Code — Here’s Why Devs Aren’t Obsolete Yet | TrendooThe Past, Present, and Future of Using Ketamine to Treat Depression | Smithsonian MagazineKetamine Revealed as Matthew Perry’s Cause of Death — Here’s What to Know about the Drug | ForbesBlake Mycoskie — TOMS, The Hoffman Process, Conscious Uncoupling, and Psychedelics | The Tim Ferriss Show #446Ev Williams Is Finally Moving on from Twitter | VoxEv Williams Was Lonely. He Doesn’t Want You to Be. | The New York TimesThe Tail End | Wait But WhyEvan Williams Is Stepping Down as CEO of Medium | The New York TimesMaking “Social” Social Again by Ev Williams | MediumThe Way App from Henry ShukmanSHOW NOTES[00:05:35] Kevin Rose starts the party like it’s 2004.[00:07:27] Ev’s first internet product.[00:08:54] How technology became social for Ev.[00:10:52] The simple idea behind Mozi.[00:12:05] Strategic quitting vs. sunk-cost perseverance.[00:18:36] How Odeo begat Twitter.[00:22:01] Twitter’s $11,000 SXSW 2007 inflection point.[00:23:45] Ev’s hopes for Mozi’s evolution.[00:25:02] Favorite books and information inputs.[00:30:45] Raising a generation to co-exist with AI.[00:33:12] Ev’s billboard.[00:35:56] How Ev learned to manage his feelings.[00:37:16] Facing strangers as an introvert with the Hoffman Process.[00:39:57] Recently adopted habits that have galvanized positive change.[00:42:44] The silver lining of being fired from Twitter.[00:45:18] Contemplating how the universe works with The One by Heinrich Päs.[00:47:04] How Ev stocks his reading list arsenal.[00:50:26] Big thoughts on a Medium regret.[00:52:47] Resisting the urge to bloat Mozi with superfluous features.[00:55:40] How Mozi balances privacy with utility.[00:57:40] Parting thoughts.MORE EV WILLIAMS QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW“You can set a goal to run a marathon, and you can download a training regime, and you can go run the marathon. You can’t do that to invent the computer or Twitter or create amazing art. You can’t plot it. And to the extent you try to plot it, you shoot yourself in the foot because you cut off the possibilities that lie before you.”
— Ev Williams
“The most creative force in the world is clearly nature, and it has no plan. It just tries shit.”
— Ev Williams
“I saw companies—in particular, products—as a creative process. It’s like writing a book or painting a painting: you have to figure it out as you go. You don’t have it fully baked in your head from day one.”
— Ev Williams
“Remember when social used to mean getting together in real life, getting to know people? And now social is just this catchall word that kind of just means the internet.”
— Ev Williams
“I think humans, fundamentally, were wired to be deeply social, but that wiring was way before screens. And that wiring to be social, it didn’t happen in public. So Mozi is a very simple idea where we said, ‘Well, what would an actual social network look like?’ That’s what we’re building.”
— Ev Williams
“I think this idea of it’s okay to quit is underappreciated.”
— Ev Williams
“You don’t know what else there is until you clear your attention away from the thing that you’ve been struggling with.”
— Ev Williams
“Creative ideation is useful no matter what you do, ever.”
— Ev Williams
The post Ev Williams — The Art of Pivoting (e.g., Odeo to Twitter), Strategic Quitting, The Dangers of Premature Scaling, Must-Read Books, and More (#800) appeared first on The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss.
March 13, 2025
Richard Taylor and Greg Broadmore, Wētā Workshop — Untapping Creativity, Stories from The Lord of the Rings, The Magic of New Zealand, Four Tenets to Live By, and The Only Sentence of Self-Help You Need (#799)
“The thing we love to make today is other makers. We’ve had a lovely and amazing career, and we are continuing to do fun and wonderful things every day. But it’s an imperative, and I actually feel that it’s beholden on us to try and introduce as many people as possible, specifically children, into the love of making and creating because it is slipping out of our fingers.”
— Richard Taylor
“What is art about? It is more than just drawing pictures and making stories — it is finding truth.”
— Greg Broadmore
Richard Taylor is the co-founder and creative lead at Wētā Workshop, which he runs with his wife and co-founder Tania Rodger. Wētā Workshop is a concept design studio and manufacturing facility that services the world’s creative and entertainment industries. Their practical and special effects have helped define the visual identities of some of the most recognizable franchises in film and television, including The Lord of the Rings, Planet of the Apes, Superman, Mad Max, Thor, M3gan, and Love, Death, and Robots.
Greg Broadmore is an artist and writer who has been part of the team at Wētā Workshop for more than 20 years. His design and special-effects credits include District 9, King Kong, Godzilla, The Adventures of Tintin, and Avatar, and he is the creator of the satirical, retro-sci-fi world of Dr. Grordbort’s. He is currently working on the graphic novel series One Path, set in a brutal prehistoric world where dinosaurs and cavewomen are locked in a grim battle for supremacy.
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, YouTube Music, Amazon Music, Audible, or on your favorite podcast platform. The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.
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Want to hear another podcast episode with a prolific artist? Listen to my first conversation with Todd McFarlane, in which we discussed the art of compelling storytelling, meeting deadlines, Todd’s voluminous library of rejection letters, how the industry status quo led to the founding of Image Comic Books, the happy accident that brought Venom to life, spaghetti webbing, competitive bladdering, and much more.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Richard Taylor:Website | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram | YouTube
Connect with Greg Broadmore:Website | Newsletter | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram
Richard Taylor’s Four TenetsLove of oneself.Love of what you do.Love of who you do it with.Love of who you do it for.(Unofficial bonus tenet) Don’t be a dickhead.Institutions, Companies, and PlacesWētā Workshop: Special effects and design company founded by Richard Taylor and Tania Rodger.Wētā Caves: Retail stores associated with Wētā Workshop.Wellington, New Zealand: Where Wētā was founded and is headquartered.Sichuan Earthquake Relief Fund: Fund to support earthquake victims.Gibson Group: Production company, Public Eye.Procreate: Australian art app company.Nintendo: Video game company, creator of the DS.Colors!: The DS art app created by Jens Andersson.Auckland, New Zealand: Where Weta Unleashed! is based.Mad Cave Studios: Publisher of Greg Broadmore’s One Path.Magic Leap: Augmented reality company, collaborated with Weta Workshop on games.Photoshop: Adobe’s classic raster graphics editor.Dungeons & Dragons: The fantasy tabletop role-playing game by which all others are measured.Magic: The Gathering: The world’s premier trading card game.National Geographic: A global non-profit organization committed to exploring, illuminating, and protecting the wonder of our world.Movies and Entertainment MediaThe Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the RingThe Lord of the Rings: The Two TowersThe Lord of the Rings: The Return of the KingRise of the Planet of the ApesDawn of the Planet of the ApesWar for the Planet of the ApesKingdom of the Planet of the ApesSupermanMad Max: Fury RoadThor: Love and ThunderM3GANLove Death + RobotsKing KongGodzilla x Kong: The New EmpireThe Adventures of TintinAvatar: The Way of WaterThunderbirds Are GoGremlins 2Harry and the HendersonsThe Seventh Voyage of SinbadThe Golden Voyage of SinbadSinbad and the Eye of the TigerJason and the ArgonautsPublic EyeSpitting ImageHeavenly CreaturesEvangelionMeet the FeeblesHercules: The Legendary JourneysXena: Warrior PrincessAmerican BeautyStar WarsFlash Gordon (Serials)Buck Rogers (Serials)District 9Alive in JoburgHaloSin CityAlita: Battle AngelThe Manchurian CandidateBooks and Recommended ReadingThe Rent Collection Courtyard: Sculptures of Oppression and Revolt by Foreign Languages PressOne Path Book One by Greg Broadmore, Andy Lanning, and Nick BoshierBooks by David DeutschDungeons & Dragons Worlds & Realms: Adventures from Greyhawk to Faerûn and Beyond by Adam Lee2000 ADJudge DreddSláine: The Horned GodA.B.C. WarriorsThe Art of Simon Bisley by Simon BisleyHeavy MetalLoboSimon Bisley’s Illustrations From The Bible: A Work in Progress by Simon BisleyThe Coming of Conan the Cimmerian: The Original Adventures of the Greatest Sword and Sorcery Hero of All Time! by Robert E. HowardThe Complete Calvin and Hobbes by Bill WattersonThe Sovereign Child: How a Forgotten Philosophy Can Liberate Kids and Their Parents by Aaron StuppleFiend Folio: Tome of Creatures Malevolent and Benign by Don Turnbull and Chris BakerDr. Grordbort’s Bestiary of the Cosmos by Greg BroadmoreExpedition: Being an Account in Words and Artwork of the 2358 A.D. Voyage to Darwin IV by Wayne Douglas BarloweAfter Man: Expanded 40th Anniversary Edition by Dougal DixonRelevant ResourcesAura: The Forest at the Edge of the Sky | Haikou International Duty-Free Shopping ComplexGreg’s Albertosaurus Skull | InstagramThunderbirds Are Go Behind-the-Scenes Tour Experience | TV One BreakfastThe Garden of Earthly Delights Triptych by Hieronymus Bosch | Museo Nacional del PradoThe Rent Collection Courtyard at 50 Years | USC Pacific Asia MuseumDick Smith Special FX Makeup TrainingRichard Sculpting in Margarine | InstagramRichard Taylor and Laura Daniels Sculpting in Tinfoil | InstagramCreative Workshops | Wētā WorkshopAlif: The Mobility Pavilion | Wētā WorkshopTraditional Chinese Medicine Technology and Creativity Museum | GMTCM ParkWētā Workshop Unleashed! | AucklandThe DS Can Do Naked Ladies Slipping on Banana Peels Rather Well | Kotaku99 DS: 99 Dodgy Slips by Greg Broadmore and 99 Deadly Sleds by Christian Pearce | Civic Square, Wellington (2009)Greg’s 60-Meter-Long Unleashed Mural | InstagramQueens of the Stone AgeMotörheadThe (Failed) Neon Genesis Evangelion Live Action Movie Series | EvaWikiDavid Deutsch and Naval Ravikant — The Fabric of Reality, The Importance of Disobedience, The Inevitability of Artificial General Intelligence, Finding Good Problems, Redefining Wealth, Foundations of True Knowledge, Harnessing Optimism, Quantum Computing, and More | The Tim Ferriss Show #662Gallipoli: The Scale of Our War | Te PapaANZAC Day WWI Gallipoli Exhibition Designed and Built by Sir Richard Taylor and Wētā Workshop | YouTubeMilitary History of New Zealand During World War I | WikipediaThe Bug Lab | Wētā WorkshopRichard Wields Sting from Lord of the Rings | YouTubeThings We Believe Make Us Kiwi | The New Zealand HeraldRocket Lab | WikipediaDr. Grordbort’s Infallible Aether Oscillators — Where Science Meets ViolenceBrandon Sanderson on Building a Fiction Empire, Creating $40M+ Kickstarter Campaigns, Unbreakable Habits, The Art of World-Building, and The Science of Magic Systems | The Tim Ferriss Show #794The Film That Never Was – Halo | Pop Culture ManiacsMore Legends of Varlata World-Building Concept Art | FacebookImages from Simon Bisley’s Bible | Simon Bisley ArtSilver Warrior by Frank Frazetta | InstagramSwamp Demon by Frank Frazetta | Frazetta Art MuseumEver Wished That Calvin and Hobbes Creator Bill Watterson Would Return to the Comics Page? Well, He Just Did. | I’m Too Stupid to TravelNaval Ravikant and Aaron Stupple — How to Raise a Sovereign Child, A Freedom-Maximizing Approach to Parenting | The Tim Ferriss Show #788PeopleTania RodgerRi StreeterGilbert BayesSteve WangRick BakerHieronymus BoschZhao ShutongRay HarryhausenDick SmithClive MemmotWarren BeatonPeter JacksonJay ChouJens AnderssonChristian PearceSalvador DaliJosh HommeLemmy KilmisterDavid DeutschNaval RavikantElijah WoodBertrand RussellJ.R.R. TolkienAnnette BeningBrandon SandersonRony AbovitzAndy LanningNick BoshierNeill BlomkampSharlto CopleyDavid MengAdam LeeSimon BisleyFrank FrazettaRichard CorbenRobert RodriguezJames CameronN.C. WyethJ. C. LeyendeckerNorman RockwellHoward PyleBill WattersonAaron StuppleWayne BarloweDougal DixonSHOW NOTES[00:08:51] Albertosaurus vs. bear.[00:10:10] The Richard Taylor office tour.[00:12:27] How Richard was inspired to begin sculpting.[00:15:42] Being influenced by — and meeting — stop-motion legend Ray Harryhausen.[00:18:08] Connecting with Dick Smith, the ‘grandfather’ of makeup effects.[00:19:17] Sculpting in margarine and breaking into the industry.[00:23:57] Tinfoil sculpting and teaching creativity to kids.[00:28:00] Wētā’s evolution from a small team to a 400-person creative hub.[00:35:57] 99 Dodgy Slips and 99 Deadly Sleds.[00:41:43] Greg’s artistic education and unique process.[00:46:11] The art must flow! But how does Greg make it happen?[00:47:54] The Auckland mural: when flow goes too far and Lemmy has to be replaced.[00:48:42] How Greg boarded the Wētā Workshop train after years on the dole.[00:51:59] The David Deutsch influence: curiosity, fun, and learning.[00:53:05] Philosophizing around art and creative problem-solving.[00:54:45] How Wētā’s Gallipoli exhibition makes WWI relevant to modern museumgoers.[00:59:04] The challenges of clothing giants and hitting deadlines.[01:03:33] How Wētā attacked the massive scale of the Lord of the Rings project with a can-do attitude.[01:11:23] Richard’s four tenets (plus one bonus tenet).[01:13:39] The unique advantages of operating in New Zealand.[01:16:42] The unwavering self-belief of Peter Jackson’s leadership style.[01:20:10] Richard’s advice for anyone seeking to cultivate their own creativity.[01:23:03] Artistic immortality: leaving a creative legacy.[01:24:13] Greg explains the retro sci-fi angle behind his Dr. Grordbort’s and ray gun projects.[01:28:55] The metaphysics of creative direction.[01:36:09] How Greg’s new book, One Path, came about.[01:40:02] Tools Greg used for conceptualizing One Path.[01:41:55] Where the curious can see more of Greg’s work.[01:43:18] How many destinations does Greg imagine One Path will reach?[01:45:02] Why working on District 9 was often frustrating, but ultimately rewarding.[01:50:39] How can an artist maintain a healthy detachment from their own work?[01:57:35] Greg’s inspirations.[02:06:20] What’s Bill Watterson (Calvin and Hobbes) up to these days?[02:08:53] What is art really about for Greg?[02:10:10] How Aaron Stupple changed Greg’s life.[02:13:13] Bestiaries, folios, and fondly remembered library books.[02:15:39] Parting thoughts.MORE QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW“I have four very simple tenets that I operate by and four tenets that I try and operate our company by. … Love of oneself, love of what you do, love of who you do it with, and love of who you do it for.”
— Richard Taylor
“The first 300 commercial sculptures I did in the film industry were sculpted in margarine.”
— Richard Taylor
“If you think about who are the true immortals in the world, they’re teachers and parents, people that pass information to others to carry on into the next generation. But I do think about artists and craftspeople as being creatively immortal.”
— Richard Taylor
“The thing we love to make today is other makers. We’ve had a lovely and amazing career, and we are continuing to do fun and wonderful things every day. But it’s an imperative, and I actually feel that it’s beholden on us to try and introduce as many people as possible, specifically children, into the love of making and creating because it is slipping out of our fingers.”
— Richard Taylor
“Grit is an important component in the journey, not the accolades at the end. It’s the task of getting there that is seen as equal in accomplishment as winning baubles.”
— Richard Taylor
“I realized you need to care about the work deeply. It is your baby. You have to care about it. And if you don’t care about it, the work won’t be any good. So you cannot become cynical to the work, you have to love it, and you have to be able to let go of it.”
— Greg Broadmore
“I love learning by doing. It’s the only way. The act of illustrating or being creative, in general, I find most interesting when you don’t actually know where you’re going exactly, and you don’t really know how to do it. You just throw yourself into it and do your best, and I love that process.”
— Greg Broadmore
“Why choose any creative direction? This is a whole big metaphysical thing. There’s actually, I think, two distinct directions in which people create stories and narratives and worlds. One way is directed where you know where you’re going to go, you know the ending. The other way, which I’ve discovered I do, more often than not, is I’m just chasing these ‘why?’ questions.”
— Greg Broadmore
“What is art about? It is more than just drawing pictures and making stories — it is finding truth.”
— Greg Broadmore
The post Richard Taylor and Greg Broadmore, Wētā Workshop — Untapping Creativity, Stories from The Lord of the Rings, The Magic of New Zealand, Four Tenets to Live By, and The Only Sentence of Self-Help You Need (#799) appeared first on The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss.
March 6, 2025
Terry Real – Breaking the Rules of Traditional Couples Therapy for Superior Results, A Few Frameworks That Work (#798)
For this episode, I’m doing something a bit different. I’m featuring five chapters from the audiobook Fierce Intimacy by Terry Real. What you will hear in this episode will help you identify both your and your partner’s losing strategies in relationships and help you move from disharmony to repair. Terry is the creator of Relational Life Therapy, or RLT, which underpins all his books, courses, and teachings and equips people with the powerful relational skills they need to make love work. He is also the author of five books, including the New York Times bestseller Us: Getting Past You and Me to Build a More Loving Relationship.
And if you’d like an extra dose of calm, I recommend checking out Henry Shukman, a past podcast guest and one of only a few dozen masters in the world authorized to teach Sanbo Zen. Henry’s app, The Way, has changed my life. I’ve been using it daily, often twice a day, and it’s lowered my anxiety more than I thought possible. For 30 free sessions, just visit thewayapp.com/tim. No credit card required.
Excerpted from Fierce Intimacy: Standing Up to One Another with LOVE by Terry Real (Sounds True, 2018). Used with permission.
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, YouTube Music, Amazon Music, Audible, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Want to hear another podcast episode that deals with overcoming relationship obstacles? Listen to my conversation with psychotherapist and New York Times bestselling author Esther Perel, in which we discussed the challenges of therapizing couples in pandemic quarantine, the rewards of reframing our self-image, maintaining connection in long-distance relationships, coping with loneliness, the importance of maintaining personal rituals during trying times, and much more.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Terry Real:Fierce Intimacy: Standing Up to One Another with Love by Terry Real | AmazonUs: Getting Past You & Me to Build a More Loving Relationship by Terry Real | AmazonWhat is Relational Life Therapy (RLT)? | Relational Life InstituteZen Master Henry Shukman — 20 Minutes of Calm, Plus the Strange and Powerful World of Koans | The Tim Ferriss Show #560Henry Shukman — Zen, Tools for Awakening, Ayahuasca vs. Meditation, Intro to Koans, and Using Wounds as the Doorway | The Tim Ferriss Show #531Meditation Training Program | The WayThe “Still Face” Experiment by Dr. Ed Tronick | UMass Chan Psychiatry & Behavioral SciencesJames Framo on the First Day of Your Real Marriage | Terry Real, InstagramIt’s Time For a Relational Reckoning | Terry Real, YouTubeMy Big Fat Greek Wedding | Prime VideoBringing Down an Empire: Gandhi and Civil Disobedience | Teach DemocracyReleasing the Pressure: A Dive into Freud’s Hydraulic Model of the Mind | Ezra BrandOffending from the Victim Position | Center for Relationship and Sexual WellnessDoes Withdrawing Ever Work in Relationships? | Terry Real, YouTubeFrom Withdrawal to Reconnection: A Step-by-Step Guide | Terry Real, YouTubeTerry Real’s Five Losing Strategies & Five Winning Strategies | Moonstone CounselingSHOW NOTES[00:03:11] Harmony, disharmony, and repair: The rhythm of all intimate human relationships.[00:06:27] Harmony: Love without knowledge.[00:07:01] Disharmony: Knowledge without love.[00:10:01] Repair: Knowing love.[00:10:35] Stay or go? A relational reckoning.[00:12:04] Five losing strategies for getting from disharmony to repair.[00:13:21] Being right: Objective reality has no place in personal relationships.[00:16:35] Trying to control your partner: No one likes being controlled.[00:21:35] Unbridled self-expression: The barf bag approach to intimacy.[00:27:33] Retaliation: Offending from the victim position.[00:32:13] Withdrawal: Provacative distance-taking.[00:35:58] Shaking hands with your adaptive child — your losing strategy profile (LSP).[00:38:08] Lessons learned by comparing your partner’s LSP with your own.PEOPLE MENTIONED
Pia Mellody
Kevin Rose
Peter Attia
Henry Shukman
Edward Tronick
Sigmund Freud
Ethel Person
James Framo
Belinda Berman-Real
Mahatma Gandhi
The post Terry Real – Breaking the Rules of Traditional Couples Therapy for Superior Results, A Few Frameworks That Work (#798) appeared first on The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss.