Timothy Ferriss's Blog, page 31

“ABC, NBC: Always Be Curious, Never Be Complacent.”

— Bill Rasmussen

Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is my job to deconstruct world-class performers to tease out the routines, habits, et cetera that you can apply to your own life.

You’ll get plenty of that in this special episode, which features my interview with Bill Rasmussen from my 2017 TV Show Fear{less}. The “less” is in parentheses because the objective is to teach you to fear less, not to be fearless.

Fear{less} features in-depth, long-form conversations with top performers, focusing on how they’ve overcome fears and made hard decisions, embracing discomfort and thinking big.

It was produced by Wild West Productions, and I worked with them to make both the video and audio available to you for free, my dear listeners. You can find the video of this episode on YouTube.com/TimFerriss, and eventually you’ll be able to see all episodes for free at YouTube.com/TimFerriss.

Spearheaded by actor/producer and past podcast guest Vince Vaughn, Wild West Productions has produced a string of hit movies including The Internship, Couples Retreat, Four Christmases, and The Break-Up.

In 2020, Wild West produced the comedy The Opening Act, starring Jimmy O. Yang and Cedric The Entertainer. In addition to Fear{less}, their television credits include Undeniable with Joe Buck, ESPN’s 30 for 30 episode about the ’85 Bears, and the Netflix animated show F is for Family.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform. You can watch the interview on YouTube here.

The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

Listen onApple Podcasts[image error]Listen onSpotify[image error]Listen onOvercast#569: ESPN Co-Founder Bill Rasmussen — Fear{less} with Tim Ferriss

This episode is brought to you by “5-Bullet Friday,” my very own email newsletter that every Friday features five bullet points highlighting cool things I’ve found that week, including apps, books, documentaries, gadgets, albums, articles, TV shows, new hacks or tricks, and—of course—all sorts of weird stuff I’ve dug up from around the world.

It’s free, it’s always going to be free, and you can subscribe now at tim.blog/friday.

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…

Want to hear an episode with someone else who doesn’t underestimate the power of a good night’s sleep? Have a listen to my conversation with neurobiologist Dr. Andrew Huberman, in which we discussed visual considerations for optimizing sleep quality, timing circadian biology, the cons of melatonin, non-sleep deep rest, how to test yourself for hypnosis susceptibility, the thrill of exit cage diving with great white sharks, and much more.

#521: Dr. Andrew Huberman — A Neurobiologist on Optimizing Sleep, Enhancing Performance, Reducing Anxiety, Increasing Testosterone, and Using the Body to Control the MindSELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Bill Rasmussen:

Website | Twitter | Instagram | Facebook

ESPN (Entertainment and Sports Programming Network)Sports Junkies Rejoice: The Birth of ESPN by Bill Rasmussen | AmazonBristol, CT1906 World Series | WikipediaChicago Cubs | MLB.comChicago White Sox | MLB.comNew York Yankees | MLB.comEvolution of Television 1920-2020 | Captain GizmoWGNUS Enters the Korean Conflict | National ArchivesWestinghouse Electric CorporationAd Aids Inc.Broadcasting Magazine (1931 to 2002) | World Radio HistoryUMass AmherstThe University of MaineNew England Whalers | WikipediaBig East ConferenceSNETCo | WikipediaRCA and the Space RaceSatellite Spurs Growth of Cable TV | The New York TimesToday in ESPN History: 1978 | ESPN Front RowPittsburgh Plate Glass (PPG)Campbell Soup FoundationTaft Broadcasting | WikipediaGetty Oil | WikipediaNCAA (National Collegiate Athletic Association)Kansas City Airport MarriottESPN Celebrates 42nd Anniversary of First Broadcast | Barrett MediaSportsCenter | ESPNBill Rasmussen: Alumnus Founded ESPN, Creating First 24-Hour TV Network | Rutgers UniversityGetting Past No: Negotiating in Difficult Situations by William Ury | AmazonGetting to Yes: Negotiating Agreement Without Giving In by Roger Fisher, William L. Ury, and Bruce Patton | AmazonSecrets of Power Negotiating, 25th Anniversary Edition by Roger Dawson | AmazonJodie Foster: What I’ve Learned | EsquireDecember 1941: 31 Days that Changed America and Saved the World by Craig Shirley | AmazonLive Stream Sports and Entertainment | Hometown NetworksThe 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Tim Ferriss | AmazonSHOW NOTESA recap of ESPN’s opening night. [05:34]What accounts for Bill’s lifelong obsession with sports? [07:41]How Bill’s family — especially his father — encouraged him to excel from an early age. [09:46]By the time he got to college, what did Bill imagine he would do for a career — and what ultimately put a crimp in his ambitions? [11:20]What did Bill learn during his initial foray into the working world, and how did this lead to the start of his first business? [13:47]How did Bill segue from this first business into the world of sports broadcasting? Was his lack of experience at the beginning any hindrance? [17:01]What does Bill’s self-talk sound like when he’s trying to convince himself to try something new? [21:33]As confident as Bill is in trying new things, he’s not lived a life without self-doubt-inducing setbacks. Here’s one that led to the much bigger success that would become ESPN. [23:04]What ESPN looked like in the conceptual stages — when its financial reserve consisted of a $9,000 credit card advance. [29:40]How Bill and his team drummed up additional funds for the fledgling network. [31:50]The clever reason behind shrink-wrapping the early NCAA pitch deck. [35:29]Enter Walter Byers. [37:07]What launch day and the days leading up to it looked like. [39:06]The best decision made at ESPN. [41:32]24 hours, seven days a week is a lot of television to fill. What are some of the more esoteric ways that time has been filled at ESPN? [42:33]Why did Bill leave ESPN at 2:05 p.m. on June 25th, 1984? [44:08]Bill’s secret to effective pitching and negotiation, and a few book recommendations. [45:09]ESPN has the power to bring people together — except for when someone needs a scapegoat for divorce proceedings. [46:44]What does success mean to Bill, and who does he think of when he hears the word? Does he consider himself a success? [47:45]If Bill had to give a high-profile, 20-minute talk about something unrelated to what made him famous, what would the topic be? What book would he recommend to someone who wanted to learn more about this topic? [48:57]Current challenges. [50:19]Bill’s best advice for someone seeking to launch their own business. [52:00]What Bill’s billboard would say. [53:17]MORE BILL RASMUSSEN QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“ABC, NBC: Always Be Curious, Never Be Complacent.”
— Bill Rasmussen

“Keep your eye on the ball. Keep focused. Never, never let up until you’re accomplished what you want to do.”
— Bill Rasmussen

“I was getting old. I was approaching 30. I didn’t want my life to go by without something. Well, when I found out I couldn’t play baseball, I decided that I could become a broadcaster.”
— Bill Rasmussen

“Years ago, tales of Jules Verne and Buck Rogers were made of dreams and wild bits of imagination. Today, modern technology has taken those dreams and that imagination and turned it into a reality that allows us to bring a television picture into your home via satellite.”
— Bill Rasmussen

“He said, ‘You’re kidding me. You don’t have a tape. You’ve never done it, but you know you can do it?’ I said, ‘Yep.’ He said, ‘You know what? Based on this approach, I’m putting a news station on the air in Amherst, Massachusetts. And if you’ll help me put it on the air, you’re my sportscaster.'”
— Bill Rasmussen

“If you’re a fan, what you’ll see in the next minute, hours, and days to follow may convince you you’ve gone to sports Heaven. Beyond that blue horizon is a limitless world of sports, and right now you’re standing on the edge of tomorrow, sports 24 hours a day, seven days a week from ESPN, the total sports cable network.”
— Bill Rasmussen

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform. You can watch the interview on YouTube here.

PEOPLE MENTIONEDLee LeonardGeorge GrandeKris BryantStan HackAnthony RizzoPhil CavarrettaWarren McGuirkScott RasmussenJules VerneBuck RogersWalter ByersJ.B. DohertyTom HansenChet SimmonsMarc AndreessenMichael JordanJodie FosterTed Turner

Illustration via 99designs

“If you’re going to live a deep life, the ultimate original commitment is, ‘I’m going to commit to discipline in the sense of things I am going to do on a regular basis, because they matter, even if I don’t feel like it.’ And that is the biggest binary zero-to-one flip that happens in crafting a life.”

— Cal Newport

Cal Newport (calnewport.com) is an associate professor of computer science at Georgetown University who previously earned his PhD from MIT. His scholarship focuses on the theory of distributed systems while his general-audience writing explores intersections of culture and technology.

Cal is the author of seven books, including, most recently, Deep Work, Digital Minimalism, and A World Without Email. He is also a contributing writer for The New Yorker and the host of the Deep Questions podcast.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform. You can watch the interview on YouTube here.

Brought to you by Magic Spoon delicious low-carb cereal, Eight Sleep’s Pod Pro Cover sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating, and Athletic Greens all-in-one nutritional supplement. More on all three below.

Listen onApple Podcasts[image error]Listen onSpotify[image error]Listen onOvercast#568: Cal Newport — The Eternal Pursuit of Craftsmanship, the Deep Life, Slow Productivity, and a 30-Day Digital Minimalism Challenge

This episode is brought to you by Magic Spoon cereal! Magic Spoon is a low carb, high protein, and zero sugar cereal that tastes just like your favorite sugary cereal. Each serving has 13–14g of protein, 4g of net carbs, and 0g of sugar. It’s also gluten free, grain free, soy free, and keto friendly. And it’s delicious! It comes in your favorite, traditional cereal flavors like Cocoa, Frosted, Peanut Butter, and Blueberry.

Magic Spoon cereal has received a lot of attention since their launch. Time magazine included it in their list of Best Inventions of 2019, and Forbes called it “the future of cereal.” My listeners—that’s you—get $5 off and a 100% happiness guarantee when you visit MagicSpoon.com/Tim and use code TIM. And some great news for Canadian listeners: Magic Spoon now also ships to Canada!

This episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep! Eight Sleep’s Pod Pro Cover is the easiest and fastest way to sleep at the perfect temperature. It pairs dynamic cooling and heating with biometric tracking to offer the most advanced (and user-friendly) solution on the market. Simply add the Pod Pro Cover to your current mattress and start sleeping as cool as 55°F or as hot as 110°F. It also splits your bed in half, so your partner can choose a totally different temperature.

And now, my dear listeners—that’s you—can get $250 off the Pod Pro Cover. Simply go to EightSleep.com/Tim or use code TIM at checkout. 

This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time, “If you could only use one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually AG1 by Athletic Greens, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system. 

Right now, Athletic Greens is offering you their Vitamin D Liquid Formula free with your first subscription purchase—a vital nutrient for a strong immune system and strong bones. Visit AthleticGreens.com/Tim to claim this special offer today and receive the free Vitamin D Liquid Formula (and five free travel packs) with your first subscription purchase! That’s up to a one-year supply of Vitamin D as added value when you try their delicious and comprehensive all-in-one daily greens product.

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…

Do you want to hear an episode that explores mythology and moral frameworks? Listen to my conversation with Jordan Peterson in which we discussed the Nietzschean idea of morality as cowardice, ways to cultivate courage, gaining insight during adversarial conversations, finding meaning to make life’s suffering irrelevant, what someone committed to secularism might gain by studying the Bible, and much more.

#502: Jordan Peterson on Rules for Life, Psychedelics, The Bible, and Much MoreSELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Cal Newport:

Website | Blog | YouTube

The Deep Questions Podcast A World Without Email: Find Focus and Transform the Way You Work Forever by Cal Newport | AmazonDeep Work: Rules for Focused Success in a Distracted World by Cal Newport | AmazonDigital Minimalism: Choosing a Focused Life in a Noisy World by Cal Newport | AmazonThe Steve Martin Method: A Master Comedian’s Advice for Becoming Famous | Study HacksComedians in Cars Getting Coffee | NetflixBorn Standing Up: A Comic’s Life by Steve Martin | AmazonSteve Martin | Charlie RoseSo Good They Can’t Ignore You: Why Skills Trump Passion in the Quest for Work You Love by Cal Newport | AmazonThe Dog That Didn’t Bark in the Night: Appellate Court of Connecticut Uses Sherlock Holmes to Solve Hearsay Mystery | EvidenceProf BlogResolve to Live a Deep Life | Study HacksThe Deep Life: Some Notes | Study HacksOn Productivity and the Deep Life | Study HacksWork and the Deep Life | Study HacksCultivating a Deep Life | Study HacksMore on Cultivating a Deep Life: Mindset | Study HacksHow to Win at College: Surprising Secrets for Success from the Country’s Top Students by Cal Newport | AmazonHow to Become a Straight-A Student: The Unconventional Strategies Real College Students Use to Score High While Studying Less by Cal Newport | AmazonHow to Be a High School Superstar: A Revolutionary Plan to Get into College by Standing Out (Without Burning Out) by Cal Newport | AmazonFrom CEOs to Opera Singers – How to Harness the “Superstar Effect” by Cal Newport | Tim Ferriss’ BlogGetting Things Done: The Art of Stress-Free Productivity by David Allen | AmazonThe 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen R. Covey | AmazonBel Canto by Ann Patchett | AmazonGenius: The Life and Science of Richard Feynman by James Gleick | Amazon“Deep Work” Pioneer Cal Newport On Deep Writing | Writing Routines“Write Every Day” is Bad Advice: Hacking the Psychology of Big Projects | Study HacksNational Novel Writing Month (NaNoWriMo)The Dartmouth Jack-o-LanternThe Harvard LampoonDraft No. 4: On the Writing Process by John McPhee | AmazonThe Princeton TigerThe Eating Clubs of Princeton UniversityAmerica’s Finest News Source | The OnionA Totally Random Evening With Dave Barry | DiscogsLessons From Lucy: The Simple Joys of an Old, Happy Dog by Dave Barry | AmazonEveryday Parenting Tips by Simon Rich | The New YorkerA Walk in the Woods: Rediscovering America on the Appalachian Trail by Bill Bryson | AmazonThe Scientists: A History of Science Told Through the Lives of Its Greatest Inventors by John Gribbin | AmazonOn Slow Productivity and the Anti-Busyness Revolution | Study HacksIt’s Time to Embrace Slow Productivity by Cal Newport | The New YorkerWhy Do We Work Too Much? by Cal Newport | The New YorkerOn Pace and Productivity | Study HacksThe Principia: The Authoritative Translation and Guide: Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy by Sir Isaac Newton | AmazonWhy I Am a Bad Correspondent | Neal StephensonSnow Crash by Neal Stephenson | AmazonSeveneves by Neal Stephenson | AmazonCryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson | AmazonCal Newport on Why We’ll Look Back at Our Smartphones Like Cigarettes | GQSharpen the Saw: Exploring Covey’s Final Habit | Art of ManlinessCal Newport’s Personal Framework | Anna HavronOn Rooted Productivity | Study HacksThe Matrix | Prime VideoDeep Habits: Plan Your Week in Advance | Study HacksSolutions Beyond the Screen: The Adventure Work Method for Producing Creative Insights | Study HacksNational Mall | Washington DCUnited States Botanic GardenNational Gallery of ArtPatuxent | US Fish and Wildlife ServiceRachel Carson Conservation Park Trails | Montgomery ParksUni-Ball 0.5mm Micro Point Roller Pens | AmazonScrivener | Literature & LatteRevisiting “The 4-Hour Workweek” by Cal Newport | The New YorkerProjects vs. Tasks: A Critical Distinction in Productive Scheduling | Study HacksIt’s a Way of Working Together | TrelloManage Your Team’s Work, Projects, & Tasks Online | AsanaThe Productivity Funnel | Study HacksHow to Do Nothing: Resisting the Attention Economy by Jenny Odell | AmazonDo Nothing: How to Break Away from Overworking, Overdoing, and Underliving by Celeste Headlee | AmazonCan’t Even: How Millennials Became the Burnout Generation by Anne Helen Petersen | AmazonLaziness Does Not Exist by Devon Price | AmazonFour Thousand Weeks: Time Management for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman | AmazonHumanism | WikipediaWhat is Socrates’ Dialectic Method? | QuoraWhat is Apologetics? | Grace Theological Seminary – Christian ApologeticsSuccession | HBOAll Things Shining: Reading the Western Classics to Find Meaning in a Secular Age by Hubert Dreyfus and Sean Dorrance Kelly | AmazonCarl Jung: Understanding the Collective Unconscious | Verywell MindMoby Dick by Herman Melville | AmazonThe Odyssey by Homer | AmazonYabusame with Tim Ferriss | VimeoYoung Japan Priests Try to Breathe Life into Fading Buddhism | AP NewsEpistemology | Stanford Encyclopedia of PhilosophyThe Case for God by Karen Armstrong | AmazonStoicism Resources and Recommendations | Tim FerrissIt’s Easier To Act Your Way Into a New Way of Thinking Than To Think Your Way Into a New Way of Acting | Quote Investigator10 Surprising Similarities Between Islam and Judaism | FTD FactsCal Newport Tips: How to Become a Digital Minimalist | Refinery29How Cal Newport’s Digital Declutter Changed My Life | The Post-Grad Survival GuideLow Information Diet: Tim Ferriss’ Productivity Hack | The Life Formula5 Practices to Put in Place from Digital Minimalism by Cal Newport | Nina SemczukDrastically Reduce Stress with a Work Shutdown Ritual | Study HacksWork Less to Work Better: My Experiments with Shutdown Routines | Study HacksHow to Close Out Your Work Day Like Cal Newport | The Post-Grad Survival GuideWorkday Shutdown Rituals: 7 Great Ways to End the Day | Timely BlogSHOW NOTES

Note from the editor: Timestamps will be added shortly.

The one lesson from comedian, actor, author, and mean banjoist Steve Martin that hit Cal “like a lightning bolt.”What does it mean to be living “the deep life?”The story of Cal’s Study Hacks blog, why he needed to write his first three books, the unique way he went about securing his first book deal as an unproven 20-year-old, and how he signed with the agent who’s been with him for the past 20 years.What was Cal’s focus in high school and college?How did Cal consciously set out to sharpen his writing skills in college, and what part have humor and mathematics played in their evolution?What advice does Cal have for someone who wants to hone their funny bone for humor writing?Fresh thoughts on slow productivity.There’s no way to know if someone like Isaac Newton would have achieved greatness had he lived in the present day — when slow productivity isn’t the social default. But are there any contemporary examples of people who have mastered slow productivity in spite of 21st-century distractions?These days, Cal is well-known for eschewing the temptations of social media. But why did he initially refuse to sign up for Facebook when it was the shiny new thing everyone was talking about?Documents and disciplines Cal and I find instrumental in crafting the lives we desire.How Cal integrates seasonality into his routine for ample periods of downtime, where he roams to recharge and reset, and his pen of choice for taking notes both literary and mathematical.Why Cal and I are big fans of Scrivener software for writing.How Cal uses Trello to organize tasks under the different hats he wears throughout the day.Books in the “anti-productivity” category Cal thinks might be worth your while.Who was John Newport?Who Paul Tillich was, an explanation of the confusing term “Christian apologist,” and understanding why Cal describes himself as a concentration apologist.How does Cal focus on contemplation and matters of the soul? Why does he believe someone who’s quick to dismiss a philosophy or religion without trying to understand its most basic foundation does themselves a disservice? What are his thoughts on the takes Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson have on moral frameworks, and what need is satisfied by such contemplations?Considering the spiritual as an exercise of meticulous craft and creation, and understanding that some materials serve the purpose better than others.With so many options from which to choose, how might someone who has had either bad experiences with religion, no experience with religion, or no interest in religion explore spirituality? Are we programmed to seek out religion?Can you make it through Cal’s 30-day digital minimalism declutter? Here’s how to set the rules that are right for you and give it a whirl.What shutdown ritual does Cal use at the end of his workday?Parting thoughts.MORE GUEST QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“The weirdest thing about me, as far as anyone is concerned, is that I’ve never had a social media account, and it turns out it’s allowed. Today, everyone understands it, but until a minute ago, people thought I was literally insane.”
— Cal Newport

“We tell ourselves that we’re stuck in this way of existence. We’re not really stuck. We have a lot of options.”
— Cal Newport

“If you’re going to live a deep life, the ultimate original commitment is, ‘I’m going to commit to discipline in the sense of things I am going to do on a regular basis, because they matter, even if I don’t feel like it.’ And that is the biggest binary zero-to-one flip that happens in crafting a life.”
— Cal Newport

“For me, a day off is a day where I have full autonomy over what I do. The blank calendar day, to me, is one of the more glorious sights.”
— Cal Newport

“We’re using these things all the time because it’s more palatable to be active and busy all the time than sometimes to face what’s hard about what’s going on in our lives or the world.”
— Cal Newport

“Don’t be afraid of ideas or worldviews or approaches or philosophies that seem different than what you believe in. You’re not going to get tricked out of your convictions or believe in something that’s false. You actually strengthen your understanding of the world and therefore strengthen your own convictions by encountering other ideas that are well-formed.”
— Cal Newport

“We’re good as humans to committing to things that are positive. That’s very motivating for us. We’re bad at trying to avoid things that are negative.”
— Cal Newport

“Schedule shut down, complete.”
— Cal Newport

PEOPLE MENTIONEDSteve MartinCharlie RoseSherlock HolmesDavid AllenStephen CoveyAnn PatchettRichard P. FeynmanJames GleickJohn von NeumannAlbert EinsteinDmitri CherniakJohn McPheeJim LeeF. Scott FitzgeraldJohn F. KennedyDave BarrySimon RichBill BrysonJohn GribbinIsaac NewtonDave EggersNeal StephensonJohn GrishamMark ZuckerbergErving GoffmanMargaret MeadLeonardo da VinciRachel CarsonJenny OdellBarack ObamaCeleste HeadleeAnne Helen PetersenDevon PriceHenry David ThoreauRalph Waldo EmersonHakuin EkakuOliver BurkemanDr. SeussJohn NewportCarl JungAbraham Joshua HeschelHelmut Richard NiebuhrSocratesPaul TillichC.S. LewisJohn HickSam HarrisJordan PetersonCain and AbelHubert DreyfusSean Dorrance KellyDavid Foster WallaceFriedrich NietzscheImmanuel KantKaren ArmstrongRyan HolidayMarie Kondo

Illustration via 99designs

“We are sitting in the Weddell Sea at the most remote camp in the Antarctic right now. And we are sitting in a tent with a table made of snow and ice. And looking out the window, we can see a Twin Otter and some emperor penguins. So it’s cool in every sense of the word.”

— Sue Flood

Sue Flood (IG: @suefloodphotography TW: @suefloodphotos) is a photographer and former BBC filmmaker. Her work takes her all over the world, but she has a special passion for the wildlife and icy beauty of Antarctica.

A Durham University zoology graduate, Sue spent 11 years with the BBC Natural History Unit, working on series including The Blue Planet and Planet Earth with Sir David Attenborough, before turning her focus to photography. Her most recent book, Emperor: The Perfect Penguin, with a foreword by Sir Michael Palin, was published in September 2018.

She has appeared on screen for the BBC, Discovery Channel, and National Geographic; been featured on the series Cameramen Who Dare; and has had her images in National Geographic, BBC Wildlife, Geo, and other distinguished publications.

Her work has won multiple awards in competitions including Travel Photographer of the Year, International Photographer of the Year, International Garden Photographer of the Year, and a Royal Photographic Society Silver Medal. In February 2021 she won the Climate Change category in the Science Photographer of the Year contest, run by the Royal Photographic Society.

In recognition of her photographic achievements, Sue was invited to meet Her Majesty The Queen during a special Adventurers and Explorers event held at Buckingham Palace.

Please enjoy!

P.S. See the slideshow below for some of her incredible work. All images are courtesy of the artist and are shared with permission.

Photo by Sue FloodPhoto by Sue FloodPhoto by Sue FloodPhoto by Sue FloodPhoto by Sue Flood

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Brought to you by UCAN endurance products powered by SuperStarch®, Athletic Greens all-in-one nutritional supplement, and Eight Sleep’s Pod Pro Cover sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating. More on all three below.

Listen onApple Podcasts[image error]Listen onSpotify[image error]Listen onOvercast#567: A Rare Podcast at 30 Below Zero — Sue Flood on Antarctica, Making Your Own Luck, Chasing David Attenborough, and Reinventing Yourself

This episode is brought to you by UCAN. I was introduced to UCAN and its unique carbohydrate SuperStarch® by my good friend—and listener favorite—Dr. Peter Attia, who said there is no carb in the world like it. I have since included it in my routine, using UCAN’s powders to power my workouts, and the bars make great snacks. Extensive scientific research and clinical trials have shown that SuperStarch provides a sustained release of energy to the body without spiking blood sugar. UCAN is the ideal way to source energy from a carbohydrate without the negatives associated with fast carbs, especially sugar. You avoid fatigue, hunger cravings, and loss of focus.

Whether you’re an athlete working on managing your fitness or you need healthy, efficient calories to get you through your day, UCAN is an elegant energy solution. My listeners can save 30% on their first UCAN order by going to UCAN.co/Tim.

This episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep! Eight Sleep’s Pod Pro Cover is the easiest and fastest way to sleep at the perfect temperature. It pairs dynamic cooling and heating with biometric tracking to offer the most advanced (and user-friendly) solution on the market. Simply add the Pod Pro Cover to your current mattress and start sleeping as cool as 55°F or as hot as 110°F. It also splits your bed in half, so your partner can choose a totally different temperature.

And now, my dear listeners—that’s you—can get $250 off the Pod Pro Cover. Simply go to EightSleep.com/Tim or use code TIM at checkout. 

This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time, “If you could only use one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually AG1 by Athletic Greens, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system. 

Right now, Athletic Greens is offering you their Vitamin D Liquid Formula free with your first subscription purchase—a vital nutrient for a strong immune system and strong bones. Visit AthleticGreens.com/Tim to claim this special offer today and receive the free Vitamin D Liquid Formula (and five free travel packs) with your first subscription purchase! That’s up to a one-year supply of Vitamin D as added value when you try their delicious and comprehensive all-in-one daily greens product.

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…

Want to hear an episode with another photographer who’s willing to go the extra mile for the perfect shot? Be sure to listen to my conversation with David Yarrow, in which we discuss breaching great white sharks, being spat on by John McEnroe, FIGJAM, ghost towns, capturing Diego Maradona in his element, and much more.

#443: David Yarrow on Art, Markets, Business, and Combining It AllSELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Sue Flood:

Website | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram

Emperor: The Perfect Penguin by Sue Flood | AmazonCold Places by Sue Flood | AmazonThe Blue Planet | Prime VideoPlanet Earth | Prime VideoCameramen Who Dare | AmazonWeddell Sea | WikipediaDHC-6 Twin Otter | Viking Air LtdTop 10 Facts About Emperor Penguins | WWF10 Best Things to Do in Llandderfel, Gwynedd | Trip.comOrigins of the Word Penguin | Penguin International Rugby Football ClubA Welsh Colony in Patagonia? Yes. Welcome to the Welsh Wild West | Adventure.comCleanup and Restoration | Burning ManPolar Shelters | WeatherhavenThe Long Night Ends in Antarctica as Sun Rises after Four Months of Complete Darkness | India TodayThe Natural History Unit | BBC Studios ProductionsDurham UniversityQueensland Parks and Wildlife ServiceCrown of Thorns Starfish | Reef ResilienceChillagoe-Mungana Caves National ParkBermuda Institute of Ocean SciencesThe Mary Rose Museum | Portsmouth Historic DockyardSea Venture and its Wreck | Bermuda AttractionsLife of Birds | Prime VideoAttenborough: Life In Cold Blood | Prime VideoOur Story | Raleigh InternationalSliding Doors | Prime VideoThe Really Wild Show | BBCWildlife on One | BBCThe BBC’s Services in the UK | BBCITV HubSir David Attenborough’s Address to World Leaders at COP26 | YouTubeErebus: The Story of A Ship by Palin Michael | AmazonHappy Feet | Prime VideoTobogganing | The SpruceTrack of Tobogganing Emperor Penguin | DissolveEmperor Penguins Are Good Dads | EarthSkyPolar Bear Hunts Beluga Whales | Blue PlanetKiller Whales Target Grey Whale and Calf | BBC EarthInflatable and Rigid Inflatable Boats | Zodiac NauticJaws | Prime VideoOrcas Let the Boats Hunt for Them | BBC EarthNative American Waste of the Buffalo | the Historic Foodie’s BlogOrcas Hunting Ducks In Neva Stait, AK | Ben TimbyKiller Whales: Wolves of the Sea | IMDbPoor Knights Islands in 4K | Living a Kiwi LifeHome Truths: Love On Ice | BBCDoug Allan Filming Humpback Whale Mother and Calf, Kingdom of Tonga, South Pacific, for Planet Earth | Nature Picture LibrarySue Flood Named Royal Photographic Society Science Photographer of the Year | The White Feather FoundationIn Conversation with Wildlife Photographer Sue Flood | BBCBBC Wildlife MagazineRussian Nuclear Icebreaker, “NS 50 Lyet Pobyedi” (50 Years of Victory) at the North Pole | Nature Picture LibraryEmperor Likes Me | EVERYWHEREsometimesInside French Luxury Cruise Operator Ponant’s New Electric Hybrid Ship | FortuneArctic Dreams by Barry Lopez | AmazonOf Wolves and Men by Barry Lopez | AmazonPolar Bears: The Natural History of a Threatened Species by Ian Stirling | Amazon12 Largest Bear Species in the World | WildlifeTripHungry Polar Bear Ambushes Seal | BBC EarthPolar Bear vs. Ring Seal | National GeographicThe Polar Bear and the Volcano | Ingenium ChannelChester Queen’s School Welcomes Acclaimed Photographer to Prize-Giving Ceremony | Cheshire LiveZoom H6 Six-Track Portable Recorder | AmazonBanya Hats | EtsySHOW NOTESFrom where is this episode being recorded? [06:51]The origin of the word “penguin.” [07:44]If we’re so remote, why might you hear the sound of machinery in the background? [08:55]What kind of structure is keeping us safe from the southernmost continent’s most punishing elements? [09:47]How Sue emerged from childhood with the ability to walk even after her parents were told she’d be wheelchair-bound for life. [11:43]Inspired from a young age by the work of David Attenborough to become a wildlife filmmaker, how did Sue begin the path that would lead her to work with him? What set her apart from probably tens of thousands of other youths in pursuit of the same career? [15:35]Sue’s first television gigs. [24:02]What it was like to finally work with David Attenborough — a job opportunity she still describes as “better than winning the lottery.” [28:03]For anyone somehow not in the know by now, who is David Attenborough? What does he bring to the table apart from being one of the most charismatic television presenters of all time? [30:28]One of Sue’s top life experiences: reading the acknowledgments from her book Emperor: The Perfect Penguin to David Attenborough in person. [34:10]What is tobogganing, and why do emperor penguins do it? [35:46]Why emperor penguins leave such distinctive tracks, how the males incubate eggs, and how much of a toll this takes on their bodies every season. [36:55]A couple of “firsts” Sue captured on camera: polar bears hunting beluga whales, and orcas attacking grey whale calves. How did she succeed in situations where even National Geographic had failed? [41:20]Evidence of orcas learning to become better predators and teaching tactics to their offspring. [49:55]How dangerous is it for humans to swim with orcas — aka “killer whales” for a reason? [55:50]The divorce whale. [58:35]Common mistakes Sue has witnessed aspiring wildlife photographers making in the field. [1:01:47]How Sue and her husband Chris keep their relationship intact while she spends so much time away from home. Does she think it’s easier than being married to someone who’s working in close proximity for months at a time? [1:02:58]What prompted Sue to hang up her production hat after over a decade at the BBC and focus on photography? [1:07:11]On Nuclear icebreakers and hybrid electric ships (with an aside explaining why people experienced with spending time in Antarctica often refer to emperor penguins as “the inspectors”). [1:10:17]Observations even experienced people often miss when camping in Antarctica. [1:13:53]Books gifted most often. [1:17:29]How do polar bears sustain their gigantic mass in a landscape so seemingly barren? What makes their size a benefit rather than a hindrance? [1:19:29]What are the Pinatubo bears, and how was a volcanic eruption in the Philippines directly responsible for their success? [1:22:30]Why are you likely to sleep a lot better in a tent on the sea ice in the Antarctic than in the Arctic? [1:24:32]Sue could be anywhere in the world at any time, but here’s how to find her online every time. [1:26:46]Why is Sue so patient with animals and not with people? [1:27:52]Embarrassing Sue, meeting the Queen, plans to podcast from the other pole, Russian banya hats, and other parting thoughts. [1:29:23]MORE SUE FLOOD QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“We are sitting in the Weddell Sea at the most remote camp in the Antarctic right now. And we are sitting in a tent with a table made of snow and ice. And looking out the window, we can see a Twin Otter and some emperor penguins. So it’s cool in every sense of the word.”

— Sue Flood

“As a child, I would watch David Attenborough on all these wildlife documentaries. … I remember seeing him crawling around in the Rwandan jungle with mountain gorillas and thinking, ‘Wow, that’s a cool job.'”

— Sue Flood

“Even now, if you could turn back the clock and I had the choice between winning the lottery and working on Blue Planet, I would choose working on Blue Planet.”

— Sue Flood

“You can never get bored of emperor penguins.”

— Sue Flood

“He got into the water and was able to actually film this slightly gruesome carcass of the whale, which then sank to the bottom of the ocean and then would be feeding other creatures. So again, all part of nature’s great cycle, albeit a bit sad to witness.”

— Sue Flood

“You sleep a lot better in a tent on the sea ice in the Antarctic than you do in the Arctic.”

— Sue Flood

“If you have a dream to pursue something, pursue it. Because I was never the smartest. I was never the hardest working, but I knew what I wanted to do and I’m too stubborn to give up.”

— Sue Flood

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

PEOPLE MENTIONEDDavid AttenboroughMichael PalinSue’s DadMike SalisburyCharles, Prince of WalesJohn Blashford-SnellMichael BrightAlastair FothergillDoug AllanTom FitzNancy BlackMike deGruyDavid Parer & Elizabeth Parer-CookAndrew PenniketChris GrahamJudith OwenHarry ShearerRocky MarcianoIan DawsonBarry LopezIan StirlingElizabeth II

Illustration via 99designs

“Economics is life, and life is economics.”

— John List

John A. List (@Econ_4_Everyone) is the Kenneth C. Griffin Distinguished Service Professor in Economics at the University of Chicago. His new book is The Voltage Effect: How to Make Good Ideas Great and Great Ideas Scale.

His research has led to collaborative work with several different firms, including Lyft, Uber, United Airlines, Virgin Airlines, Humana, Sears, Kmart, Facebook, Google, General Motors, Tinder, Citadel, Walmart, and several nonprofits. For decades, his field experimental research has focused on issues related to the inner workings of markets; the effects of various incentives schemes on market equilibria and allocations; how behavioral economics can augment the standard economic model; early childhood education and interventions; and, most recently, on the gender earnings gap in the gig economy (using evidence from rideshare drivers). 

His research includes more than 200 peer-reviewed journal articles and several published books, including the best seller he coauthored with Uri Gneezy, The Why Axis: Hidden Motives and the Undiscovered Economics of Everyday Life.

List was elected a member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences in 2011 and a fellow of the Econometric Society in 2015. He received the 2010 Kenneth Galbraith Award, the 2008 Arrow Prize for Senior Economists for his research in behavioral economics in the field, and was the 2012 Yrjö Jahnsson Lecture Prize recipient. He is a current editor of the Journal of Political Economy.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform. You can watch the interview on YouTube here.

Brought to you by Athletic Greens all-in-one nutritional supplement, Four Sigmatic mushroom coffee, and Allform premium, modular furniture. More on all three below.

The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

Listen onApple Podcasts[image error]Listen onSpotify[image error]Listen onOvercast#566: John List — A Master Economist on Strategic Quitting, How to Practice Theory of Mind, Learnings from Uber, Optimizations to Boost Donations, the Primitives of Decision-Making, and How Field Experiments Reveal Hidden Realities

This episode is brought to you by Four Sigmatic and their delicious mushroom coffee, featuring lion’s mane and chaga. It tastes like coffee, but it has less than half the caffeine of what you would find in a regular cup of coffee. I do not get any jitters, acid reflux, or any type of stomach burn. It’s organic and keto friendly, plus every single batch is third-party lab tested.

You can try it right now by going to FourSigmatic.com/Tim and using the code TIM. You will receive up to 39% off on the lion’s mane coffee bundle. Simply visit FourSigmatic.com/Tim. If you are in the experimental mindset, I do not think you’ll be disappointed. 

This episode is brought to you by Allform! If you’ve been listening to the podcast for a while, you’ve probably heard me talk about Helix Sleep mattresses, which I’ve been using since 2017. They’ve launched a new company called Allform, and they’re making premium, customizable sofas and chairs shipped right to your door—at a fraction of the cost of traditional stores. You can pick your fabric (and they’re all spill, stain, and scratch resistant), the sofa color, the color of the legs, and the sofa size and shape to make sure it’s perfect for you and your home.

Allform arrives in just 3–7 days, and you can assemble it yourself in a few minutes—no tools needed. To find your perfect sofa and receive 20% off all orders, check out Allform.com/Tim.

This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time, “If you could use only one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually AG1 by Athletic Greens, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system. 

Right now, Athletic Greens is offering you their Vitamin D Liquid Formula free with your first subscription purchase—a vital nutrient for a strong immune system and strong bones. Visit AthleticGreens.com/Tim to claim this special offer today and receive the free Vitamin D Liquid Formula (and five free travel packs) with your first subscription purchase! That’s up to a one-year supply of Vitamin D as added value when you try their delicious and comprehensive all-in-one daily greens product.

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…

Want to hear an episode with Freakonimics co-author Stephen Dubner? Lend an ear to our conversation, in which we discussed the amount of influence a sitting president actually has over the economy, how to grow a podcast, why cats wiggle their butts before they pounce, the potential of technology (like VR) to enhance education, and much more.

#199: Stephen Dubner — The Art of Storytelling and Facing Malcolm Gladwell in a Fist FightSELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with John List:

The Voltage Effect Website | Personal Website

The Voltage Effect: How to Make Good Ideas Great and Great Ideas Scale by John A. List | AmazonClawback | InvestopediaLoss Aversion | InvestopediaFreakonomics: A Rogue Economist Explores the Hidden Side of Everything by Steven D. Levitt and Stephen J. Dubner | AmazonFreakonomics BlogUniversity of Central FloridaIncome Effect vs. Price Effect: What’s the Difference? | Investopedia#DeleteUber: How Social Media Turned on Uber | The GuardianUber Is Finally Adding Tipping | VoxUber’s Economics Team Is Its Secret Weapon | QuartzNearly Two-Thirds of Uber Customers Don’t Tip Their Drivers, Study Says | The VergeHow Much to Tip Your Uber Driver: An Ultimate Guide | GlamourHow John List Revolutionized Economics by Studying People in the Real World | University of Chicago NewsToward an Understanding of the Economics of Apologies: Evidence from a Large-Scale Natural Field Experiment | NBERSuper Pumped | ShowtimeSuper Pumped: The Battle for Uber by Mike Isaac | AmazonAmerican Economic AssociationUber Has a ‘God View’ Tool and Was Allegedly Using It to Spy on Celebs | CosmopolitanThe Behavioralist Meets the Market: Measuring Social Preferences and Reputation Effects in Actual Transactions | NBERHobbes’ Moral and Political Philosophy | Stanford Encyclopedia of PhilosophyJohn List: Taking Economic Theory to the Field | The Decision LabEnhancing Critical Thinking Skill Formation: Getting Fast Thinkers to Slow Down by John A. List | The Journal of Economic EducationExamples and Observations of a Confirmation Bias | Verywell MindGame Theory | Stanford Encyclopedia of PhilosophyA Beautiful Mind | Prime VideoNash Equilibrium | InvestopediaPalmer House HiltonHeads Scene | Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are DeadWorld Series of Poker | WikipediaGuide to Alice Springs | Tourism AustraliaBringing Down the House: The Inside Story of Six M.I.T. Students Who Took Vegas for Millions by Ben Mezrich | Amazon21 | Prime VideoParental Incentives and Early Childhood Achievement: A Field Experiment in Chicago Heights | NBERScience Has Been in a “Replication Crisis” for a Decade. Have We Learned Anything? | VoxLyft Just Launched a Way to Ride with Only Eco-Friendly Cars | BustleExternality | InvestopediaAnna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy | AmazonHow Good Is the Polio Vaccine? | The AtlanticCOVID-19 Vaccine Hesitancy: 12 Things You Need to Know | Johns Hopkins MedicineWhy Your Ridesharing Driver May Force You to Cancel and Pay a Fee | The Points GuyUniversity of WyomingFractals: Hunting the Hidden Dimension | Prime VideoHow Mandelbrot’s Fractals Changed the World | BBC NewsThe Behavioural Insights TeamThe $100 Million Nudge: Increasing Tax Compliance of Businesses and the Self-Employed using a Natural Field Experiment | NBERWhat a Well-Known Researcher Discovered When He Asked People to Flip a Coin on Important Life Decisions | The Washington PostBeijing 2022 OlympicsOde to the Sea: Workplace Organizations and Norms of Cooperation | NBERDo Women Avoid Salary Negotiations? Evidence from a Large Scale Natural Field Experiment | Harvard Gender Action PortalStubHubChris Dixon and Naval Ravikant — The Wonders of Web3, How to Pick the Right Hill to Climb, Finding the Right Amount of Crypto Regulation, Friends with Benefits, and the Untapped Potential of NFTs | The Tim Ferriss Show #542Cryptocurrency Finds Itself in the Sights of Robust Regulation | ReutersFinancial Crisis of 2007–2008 | WikipediaThe Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith | AmazonThe Theory of Moral Sentiments by Adam Smith | AmazonFacing a Bumpy History | Smithsonian MagazineMoneyball: The Art of Winning an Unfair Game by Michael Lewis | AmazonWhite Sox Are More of a Moneyball Team than You Might Think | The Sports BankProspect Theory | InvestopediaSHOW NOTESWhat is a clawback incentive, and how has John found it useful as a father of eight children? What other incentives have proven to be effective social tools in the real world? [07:44]The side effects of modifying or removing incentives, how incentive durability is measured, and why getting human beings to take on short-term inconveniences for long-term but far-off rewards can be troublesome. [15:23]John details his extensive work researching the science of charitable giving and tipping (particularly with ridesharing) and what he’s discovered over time. [22:33]Why the ability to publish his work in academic journals was the deciding factor in John’s acceptance of a job at Uber over Amazon, and what research had to say about the efficacy of tipping ranges in user interfaces. [35:07]What data says about customer service and the power of apologies, and the consequences of allowing such data to be published in academic journals instead of hidden away in some proprietary lockbox. [44:04]What John learned about human nature by measuring social preferences and reputation effects in actual transactions as an economist — and during his time as a baseball card dealer. [51:52]John’s thoughts on critical thinking hierarchy, theory of mind, and what the bar scene in A Beautiful Mind got wrong about the Nash equilibrium. [57:54]How does someone develop theory of mind as an applicable skill? [1:03:09]How John came to win a poker tournament in Australia while killing time before a conference. [1:07:34]What prompted John to write The Voltage Effect: How to Make Good Ideas Great and Great Ideas Scale? [1:10:26]John addresses the replication and credibility crises in science, and their real-world consequences. [1:15:38]“Scaling is not a silver bullet problem. Rather, it is an Anna Karenina problem.” How to check the vital signs that determine if an idea is scalable, with Jonas Salk’s success in conquering polio by way of vaccination serving as an example. [1:19:36]Untended side effects of failing to understand spillovers while scaling — like when the introduction of tipping to the ridesharing dynamic presents drivers with a new set of problems, or when drivers exploit technical loopholes to ditch responsibility for rudely cancelling a customer’s pickup from afar. [1:28:09]Why did John have such a slow start entering the job market after getting his PhD? What was holding him back? [1:36:34]Is there any application for fractal mathematics to economics? [1:41:26]Scalable incentives, marginal thinking, optimal quitting, and building culture. [1:45:46]Why is StubHub one of John’s favorite apps? [2:07:46]Thoughts on blockchain as a rich source of data for behavioral economists. [2:09:10]How should a modern, uninitiated audience approach Adam Smith’s The Wealth of Nations? [2:12:05]Parting thoughts. [2:16:30]MORE JOHN LIST QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“Economics is life, and life is economics.”

— John List

“With a little bit of data, and just an economics 101 understanding, you can really go a long way to change the world and make it a better place—from the White Sox to the White House.”

— John List

“Scaling is not a silver bullet problem. Rather, it is an Anna Karenina problem.”

— John List

“Very few people will not screw each other. There are very few nice people out there.”

— John List

“We’re going to change the world by understanding the science of using science.”

— John List

“To use the world as your lab is a great opportunity to make the world a better place.”

— John List

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

PEOPLE MENTIONEDSteven D. LevittThomas L. KeonTravis KalanickJeff BezosJeff HoldenBrian KoppelmanDavid LevienMatt DamonAngus DeatonLogan GreenJohn ZimmerThomas HobbesHank AaronBarry L. BondsKen Griffey, Jr.John Forbes Nash, Jr.Ron HowardPhil HellmuthPhil IveyMichael JordanRoland G. Fryer, Jr.Leo TolstoyJonas SalkAndrew GroveBenoit MandelbrotSteve StrickerJerry KellyVince LombardiBenny the BullAdam SmithBryce HarperVernon SmithGary Stanley Becker

Illustration via 99designs

“Economics is life, and life is economics.”

— John List

John A. List (@Econ_4_Everyone) is the Kenneth C. Griffin Distinguished Service Professor in Economics at the University of Chicago.

His research has led to collaborative work with several different firms, including Lyft, Uber, United Airlines, Virgin Airlines, Humana, Sears, Kmart, Facebook, Google, General Motors, Tinder, Citadel, Walmart, and several nonprofits. For decades, his field experimental research has focused on issues related to the inner workings of markets; the effects of various incentives schemes on market equilibria and allocations; how behavioral economics can augment the standard economic model; early childhood education and interventions; and, most recently, on the gender earnings gap in the gig economy (using evidence from rideshare drivers). 

His research includes more than 200 peer-reviewed journal articles and several published books, including the best seller he coauthored with Uri Gneezy, The Why Axis: Hidden Motives and the Undiscovered Economics of Everyday Life, and his new book, The Voltage Effect: How to Make Good Ideas Great and Great Ideas Scale.

List was elected a member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences in 2011 and a fellow of the Econometric Society in 2015. He received the 2010 Kenneth Galbraith Award, the 2008 Arrow Prize for Senior Economists for his research in behavioral economics in the field, and was the 2012 Yrjö Jahnsson Lecture Prize recipient. He is a current editor of the Journal of Political Economy.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform. You can watch the interview on YouTube here.

Brought to you by Athletic Greens all-in-one nutritional supplement, Four Sigmatic mushroom coffee, and Allform premium, modular furniture. More on all three below.

Listen onApple Podcasts[image error]Listen onSpotify[image error]Listen onOvercast#566: John List — A Master Economist on Increasing Tipping, Strategic Quitting, Maximizing Charitable Fundraising, Baseball Cards, Theory of Mind, and Valuable Decisions on the Margin

This episode is brought to you by Four Sigmatic and their delicious mushroom coffee, featuring lion’s mane and chaga. It tastes like coffee, but it has less than half the caffeine of what you would find in a regular cup of coffee. I do not get any jitters, acid reflux, or any type of stomach burn. It’s organic and keto friendly, plus every single batch is third-party lab tested.

You can try it right now by going to FourSigmatic.com/Tim and using the code TIM. You will receive up to 39% off on the lion’s mane coffee bundle. Simply visit FourSigmatic.com/Tim. If you are in the experimental mindset, I do not think you’ll be disappointed. 

This episode is brought to you by Allform! If you’ve been listening to the podcast for a while, you’ve probably heard me talk about Helix Sleep mattresses, which I’ve been using since 2017. They’ve launched a new company called Allform, and they’re making premium, customizable sofas and chairs shipped right to your door—at a fraction of the cost of traditional stores. You can pick your fabric (and they’re all spill, stain, and scratch resistant), the sofa color, the color of the legs, and the sofa size and shape to make sure it’s perfect for you and your home.

Allform arrives in just 3–7 days, and you can assemble it yourself in a few minutes—no tools needed. To find your perfect sofa and receive 20% off all orders, check out Allform.com/Tim.

This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time, “If you could only use one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually AG1 by Athletic Greens, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system. 

Right now, Athletic Greens is offering you their Vitamin D Liquid Formula free with your first subscription purchase—a vital nutrient for a strong immune system and strong bones. Visit AthleticGreens.com/Tim to claim this special offer today and receive the free Vitamin D Liquid Formula (and five free travel packs) with your first subscription purchase! That’s up to a one-year supply of Vitamin D as added value when you try their delicious and comprehensive all-in-one daily greens product.

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…

Want to hear an episode with Freakonimics co-author Stephen Dubner? Lend an ear to our conversation, in which we discussed the amount of influence a sitting president actually has over the economy, how to grow a podcast, why cats wiggle their butts before they pounce, the potential of technology (like VR) to enhance education, and much more.

#199: Stephen Dubner — The Art of Storytelling and Facing Malcolm Gladwell in a Fist FightSELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with John List:

The Voltage Effect Website | Personal Website

The Voltage Effect: How to Make Good Ideas Great and Great Ideas Scale by John A. List | AmazonClawback | InvestopediaLoss Aversion | InvestopediaFreakonomics: A Rogue Economist Explores the Hidden Side of Everything by Steven D. Levitt and Stephen J. Dubner | AmazonFreakonomics BlogUniversity of Central FloridaIncome Effect vs. Price Effect: What’s the Difference? | Investopedia#DeleteUber: How Social Media Turned on Uber | The GuardianUber Is Finally Adding Tipping | VoxUber’s Economics Team Is Its Secret Weapon | QuartzNearly Two-Thirds of Uber Customers Don’t Tip Their Drivers, Study Says | The VergeHow Much to Tip Your Uber Driver: An Ultimate Guide | GlamourHow John List Revolutionized Economics by Studying People in the Real World | University of Chicago NewsToward an Understanding of the Economics of Apologies: Evidence from a Large-Scale Natural Field Experiment | NBERSuper Pumped | ShowtimeSuper Pumped: The Battle for Uber by Mike Isaac | AmazonAmerican Economic AssociationUber Has a ‘God View’ Tool and Was Allegedly Using It to Spy on Celebs | CosmopolitanThe Behavioralist Meets the Market: Measuring Social Preferences and Reputation Effects in Actual Transactions | NBERHobbes’ Moral and Political Philosophy | Stanford Encyclopedia of PhilosophyJohn List: Taking Economic Theory to the Field | The Decision LabEnhancing Critical Thinking Skill Formation: Getting Fast Thinkers to Slow Down by John A. List | The Journal of Economic EducationExamples and Observations of a Confirmation Bias | Verywell MindGame Theory | Stanford Encyclopedia of PhilosophyA Beautiful Mind | Prime VideoNash Equilibrium | InvestopediaPalmer House HiltonHeads Scene | Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are DeadWorld Series of Poker | WikipediaGuide to Alice Springs | Tourism AustraliaBringing Down the House: The Inside Story of Six M.I.T. Students Who Took Vegas for Millions by Ben Mezrich | Amazon21 | Prime VideoParental Incentives and Early Childhood Achievement: A Field Experiment in Chicago Heights | NBERScience Has Been in a “Replication Crisis” for a Decade. Have We Learned Anything? | VoxLyft Just Launched a Way to Ride with Only Eco-Friendly Cars | BustleExternality | InvestopediaAnna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy | AmazonHow Good Is the Polio Vaccine? | The AtlanticCOVID-19 Vaccine Hesitancy: 12 Things You Need to Know | Johns Hopkins MedicineWhy Your Ridesharing Driver May Force You to Cancel and Pay a Fee | The Points GuyUniversity of WyomingFractals: Hunting the Hidden Dimension | Prime VideoHow Mandelbrot’s Fractals Changed the World | BBC NewsThe Behavioural Insights TeamThe $100 Million Nudge: Increasing Tax Compliance of Businesses and the Self-Employed using a Natural Field Experiment | NBERWhat a Well-Known Researcher Discovered When He Asked People to Flip a Coin on Important Life Decisions | The Washington PostBeijing 2022 OlympicsOde to the Sea: Workplace Organizations and Norms of Cooperation | NBERDo Women Avoid Salary Negotiations? Evidence from a Large Scale Natural Field Experiment | Harvard Gender Action PortalStubHubChris Dixon and Naval Ravikant — The Wonders of Web3, How to Pick the Right Hill to Climb, Finding the Right Amount of Crypto Regulation, Friends with Benefits, and the Untapped Potential of NFTs | The Tim Ferriss Show #542Cryptocurrency Finds Itself in the Sights of Robust Regulation | ReutersFinancial Crisis of 2007–2008 | WikipediaThe Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith | AmazonThe Theory of Moral Sentiments by Adam Smith | AmazonFacing a Bumpy History | Smithsonian MagazineMoneyball: The Art of Winning an Unfair Game by Michael Lewis | AmazonWhite Sox Are More of a Moneyball Team than You Might Think | The Sports BankProspect Theory | InvestopediaSHOW NOTESWhat is a clawback incentive, and how has John found it useful as a father of eight children? What other incentives have proven to be effective social tools in the real world? [07:44]The side effects of modifying or removing incentives, how incentive durability is measured, and why getting human beings to take on short-term inconveniences for long-term but far-off rewards can be troublesome. [15:23]John details his extensive work researching the science of charitable giving and tipping (particularly with ridesharing) and what he’s discovered over time. [22:33]Why the ability to publish his work in academic journals was the deciding factor in John’s acceptance of a job at Uber over Amazon, and what research had to say about the efficacy of tipping ranges in user interfaces. [35:07]What data says about customer service and the power of apologies, and the consequences of allowing such data to be published in academic journals instead of hidden away in some proprietary lockbox. [44:04]What John learned about human nature by measuring social preferences and reputation effects in actual transactions as an economist — and during his time as a baseball card dealer. [51:52]John’s thoughts on critical thinking hierarchy, theory of mind, and what the bar scene in A Beautiful Mind got wrong about the Nash equilibrium. [57:54]How does someone develop theory of mind as an applicable skill? [1:03:09]How John came to win a poker tournament in Australia while killing time before a conference. [1:07:34]What prompted John to write The Voltage Effect: How to Make Good Ideas Great and Great Ideas Scale? [1:10:26]John addresses the replication and credibility crises in science, and their real-world consequences. [1:15:38]“Scaling is not a silver bullet problem. Rather, it is an Anna Karenina problem.” How to check the vital signs that determine if an idea is scalable, with Jonas Salk’s success in conquering polio by way of vaccination serving as an example. [1:19:36]Untended side effects of failing to understand spillovers while scaling — like when the introduction of tipping to the ridesharing dynamic presents drivers with a new set of problems, or when drivers exploit technical loopholes to ditch responsibility for rudely cancelling a customer’s pickup from afar. [1:28:09]Why did John have such a slow start entering the job market after getting his PhD? What was holding him back? [1:36:34]Is there any application for fractal mathematics to economics? [1:41:26]Scalable incentives, marginal thinking, optimal quitting, and building culture. [1:45:46]Why is StubHub one of John’s favorite apps? [2:07:46]Thoughts on blockchain as a rich source of data for behavioral economists. [2:09:10]How should a modern, uninitiated audience approach Adam Smith’s The Wealth of Nations? [2:12:05]Parting thoughts. [2:16:30]MORE JOHN LIST QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“Economics is life, and life is economics.”

— John List

“With a little bit of data, and just an economics 101 understanding, you can really go a long way to change the world and make it a better place—from the White Sox to the White House.”

— John List

“Scaling is not a silver bullet problem. Rather, it is an Anna Karenina problem.”

— John List

“Very few people will not screw each other. There are very few nice people out there.”

— John List

“We’re going to change the world by understanding the science of using science.”

— John List

“To use the world as your lab is a great opportunity to make the world a better place.”

— John List

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

PEOPLE MENTIONEDSteven D. LevittThomas L. KeonTravis KalanickJeff BezosJeff HoldenBrian KoppelmanDavid LevienMatt DamonAngus DeatonLogan GreenJohn ZimmerThomas HobbesHank AaronBarry L. BondsKen Griffey, Jr.John Forbes Nash, Jr.Ron HowardPhil HellmuthPhil IveyMichael JordanRoland G. Fryer, Jr.Leo TolstoyJonas SalkAndrew GroveBenoit MandelbrotSteve StrickerJerry KellyVince LombardiBenny the BullAdam SmithBryce HarperVernon SmithGary Stanley Becker

Illustration via 99designs

“The thing that SNL teaches you is to not be precious with your own material.”

— Michael Schur

Michael Schur (@KenTremendous) created the critically acclaimed NBC comedy The Good Place and co-created Parks and Recreation, Brooklyn Nine-Nine, and the Peacock series Rutherford Falls. He is also an executive producer on HBO Max’s Hacks and Netflix’s Master of None.

Prior to “Parks,” Michael spent four years as a writer-producer on the Emmy Award-winning NBC hit The Office. His first TV writing job was at Saturday Night Live, where he spent seven seasons, including three as the producer of “Weekend Update” with Tina Fey and Jimmy Fallon.

Michael’s new book is How to Be Perfect: The Correct Answer to Every Moral Question.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Brought to you by LMNT electrolyte supplement, Helix Sleep premium mattresses, and LinkedIn Jobs recruitment platform with 770M+ users. More on all three below.

Listen onApple Podcasts[image error]Listen onSpotify[image error]Listen onOvercastMichael Schur, Creator of “The Good Place” — How SNL Trains Writers, His TV University at “The Office,” Lessons from Lorne Michaels, Wisdom from David Foster Wallace, and Exploring Moral Philosophy with “How to Be Perfect” (#565)

This episode is brought to you by Helix Sleep! Helix was selected as the #1 overall mattress of 2020 by GQ magazine, Wired, Apartment Therapy, and many others. With Helix, there’s a specific mattress to meet each and every body’s unique comfort needs. Just take their quiz—only two minutes to complete—that matches your body type and sleep preferences to the perfect mattress for you. They have a 10-year warranty, and you get to try it out for a hundred nights, risk free. They’ll even pick it up from you if you don’t love it. And now, Helix is offering up to 200 dollars off all mattress orders plus two free pillows at HelixSleep.com/Tim.

This episode is brought to you by LMNT! What is LMNT? It’s a delicious, sugar-free electrolyte drink mix. I’ve stocked up on boxes and boxes of this and usually use it 1–2 times per day. LMNT is formulated to help anyone with their electrolyte needs and perfectly suited to folks following a keto, low-carb, or Paleo diet. If you are on a low-carb diet or fasting, electrolytes play a key role in relieving hunger, cramps, headaches, tiredness, and dizziness.

LMNT came up with a very special offer for you, my dear listeners. For a limited time, you can claim a free LMNT Sample Pack—you only cover the cost of shipping. For US customers, this means you can receive an 8-count sample pack for only $5. Simply go to DrinkLMNT.com/Tim to claim your free 8-count sample pack.

This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs. Whether you are looking to hire now for a critical role or thinking about needs that you may have in the future, LinkedIn Jobs can help. LinkedIn screens candidates for the hard and soft skills you’re looking for and puts your job in front of candidates looking for job opportunities that match what you have to offer.

Using LinkedIn’s active community of more than 770 million professionals worldwide, LinkedIn Jobs can help you find and hire the right person faster. When your business is ready to make that next hire, find the right person with LinkedIn Jobs. And now, you can post a job for free. Just visit LinkedIn.com/Tim.

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…

Want to hear an episode with another SNL alum? Have a listen to my conversation with Sarah Silverman, in which we discussed what it means to be one’s own best friend, the comfort zone of worrying, why you should never miss the chance to mourn at a comedian’s funeral, and much more.

#563: Sarah Silverman — How to Be Your Own Best Friend, Lessons from Therapy, and Grabbing Joy Where You Can Get ItSELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Michael Schur:

Twitter

How to Be Perfect: The Correct Answer to Every Moral Question by Michael Schur | Amazon The Good Place | Prime VideoParks and Recreation | Prime VideoBrooklyn Nine-Nine | Prime VideoRutherford Falls | PeacockHacks | HBO MaxMaster of None | NetflixThe Office (US) | Prime VideoSaturday Night Live (SNL) | PeacockThe Harvard LampoonThe Simpsons | Prime VideoAnimal House | Prime VideoShouts & Murmurs: Humor, Satire, and Funny Observations | The New YorkerRolling StoneThumb Up or Thumb Down? From Gladiator to FB, the Roman Roots of Pollice Verso | ITALY MagazineInfinite Jest by David Foster Wallace | AmazonThe Rules of the Game: Narrative Logic in Thomas Pynchon’s V. and David Foster Wallace’s Infinite Jest by Michael Herbert Schur | HarvardBilly Budd by Herman Melville | AmazonThe Brattle TheatreThe Hasty Pudding Institute of 1770Mare of Easttown | HBO MaxSliding Doors | Prime VideoString Theory: David Foster Wallace on Tennis: A Library of America Special Publication by David Foster Wallace | AmazonBlack Mirror | NetflixDavid Foster Wallace Predicted You Will Get Tired of iPhone 4’s New Functionality | VultureMotherless Brooklyn: A Novel by Jonathan Lethem | AmazonMotherless Brooklyn | Prime VideoGolden Handcuffs | InvestopediaCurb Your Enthusiasm | Prime VideoThe Office (UK) | Prime VideoUS Braces Itself for Coupling | The GuardianThe Matrix | Prime VideoSensitivity Training | The Office (US)Q&A: The Office Writer Michael Schur | Vanity FairWhy “F = Ma” Is the Most Important Equation in Physics | Big ThinkThe Sopranos | Prime VideoYankee Swap | The Office (US)Babies Dressed Like Adults = Too Cute! | PinterestConflict Resolution | The Office (US)Moby-Dick by Herman Melville, First Edition | AbeBooksCurse of the Bambino | WikipediaPnin by Vladimir Nabokov, First Edition | AbeBooksFremulon | WikipediaMonty PythonFire Joe MorganCity of Hartford, CTThe Trolley Problem | The Good PlaceFender Bender | The New YorkerThe Devastation of Hurricane Katrina: A City Underwater | HistoryHelp Those Affected by Disasters | American Red CrossWhat Is ‘Whataboutism’? | Merriam-WebsterMoral Philosophy | Ethics UnwrappedA Brief History of Time by Stephen Hawking | AmazonE=mc2: What Does Einstein’s Most Famous Equation Mean? | Discover MagazineEthics 101 — The Good Place: A Reading List | Harvard University Press BlogCritique of Pure Reason by Immanuel Kant | AmazonThe History of Utilitarianism | Stanford Encyclopedia of PhilosophyJeremy Bentham’s Auto-Icon | Atlas ObscuraPragmatism | Stanford Encyclopedia of PhilosophyX-Men by Chris Claremont and Jim Lee Omnibus | AmazonPunisher War Journal Vol 1 (1988–1995) | Marvel DatabaseFiend Folio: Tome of Creatures Malevolent and Benign by Don Turnbull and Chris Baker | AmazonElf | Dungeons & Dragons Lore WikiChaotic Good Alignment Explained + How To Play + Character Examples | My Kind of MeepleThis is Water by David Foster Wallace (Full Transcript and Audio) | Farnam StreetDeath (The Art of Living) by Todd May | AmazonExistentialism | Stanford Encyclopedia of PhilosophyInternational Rescue Committee (IRC)Rainforest TrustWorld Central KitchenThe Constant | LostpediaFly | Breaking Bad WikiSHOW NOTESHow did Michael get involved with The Harvard Lampoon, and what did the audition process look like? How was the writing process different during his time there than it might be in a comparable publication today? [05:58]How performing live comedy is like Roman gladiator combat, and what Michael learned during his seven seasons as a writer for Saturday Night Live. [12:53]Michael shares his David Foster Wallace story, and his own thoughts about adapting Infinite Jest into a miniseries. [20:03]Why did Michael decide to leave SNL and continue his career in Los Angeles? How did he wind up writing for the US adaptation of The Office in spite of being unsure that such an adaptation was even a good idea? [31:10]Why does Michael consider the opportunity to work with The Office showrunner Greg Daniels “the greatest stroke of good fortune” that’s ever befallen him? What did he learn from the experience that SNL didn’t teach him? [39:12]What is the F = ma of sitcom writing, and how did this play into character development on The Office? [44:35]If Michael’s house were burning down and he only had time to rescue five things, what would they be? [53:20]How did Michael become a rare book collector? [57:45]Where did Michael’s alter ego of Ken Tremendous (and Fremulon, his equally fictitious place of employment) originate? [1:01:13]With television networks often skittish about deviating from proven formulas, how did a show as unique as The Good Place come about? [1:08:10]How the seed of the idea that became The Good Place was planted by an outrageous car repair bill. [1:16:15]Michael once joked that he would love How to Be Perfect to do for moral philosophy what A Brief History of Time did for astrophysics. If that’s a tall order, what would he consider an acceptable takeaway for its readers? [1:27:58]What qualifies the legitimacy of a philosopher? Is it when they can get people to actually read (and understand) their work? [1:32:58]If Michael could have a drink or dinner with any philosopher, living or dead, who would he choose? [1:39:53]What two philosophers would Michael choose to have on speed dial for his own personal instruction? [1:43:36]What comics in my own collection do I most treasure? What kind of D&D characters did I tend to play in my youth? [1:49:11]Michael’s most worthwhile failures (and one recurring failure that still gives him nightmares). [1:51:17]Michael is sorry if his billboard offends you. [2:01:28]Who are Todd May and Pamela Hieronymi, and how did they become The Good Place writers’ room emergency contacts? [2:06:00]Why Michael encourages us all to get educated about ethics by any means comfortable (and if that includes reading How to Be Perfect, so be it) where the proceeds of book sales will be directed, and other parting thoughts. [2:10:12]MORE GUEST QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“There are ethical components to almost everything that happens, and we are better off when we pay attention to them and really try to untangle them and wrestle with them.”
— Michael Schur

“I’m verified on Twitter as an imaginary fictional personality. It’s amazing.”
— Michael Schur

“I think that if everyone who worked in Hollywood had to work for one year at SNL, in general, things would be a lot better. From a creative standpoint, the thing that SNL teaches you is to not be precious with your own material.”
— Michael Schur

“[Moral philosophy is] like someone wrote a recipe for a chocolate chip cookie that’s both delicious and helps you lose weight and build muscle mass, but the recipe is 600 pages long, and it’s written in German, and no one is ever reading it. If you could somehow take what they wrote, synthesize it, and talk about it conversationally with people in a way that isn’t condescending, but it is engaging, then that might be of use to people.”
— Michael Schur

“I just recommend ethics as a life improvement strategy.”
— Michael Schur

“Even when I do the wrong thing —which is frequent—I take a tremendous amount of pleasure from wrestling with the questions, and from at least having some kind of scaffolding or structure that I can go to and think about and use to examine the problems that I face in my life.”
— Michael Schur

“Comedy for performance, it’s like the Roman Coliseum. A bunch of people give you a thumbs up or a thumbs down, and then it’s up to you to figure out what to do next.”
— Michael Schur

“I would so much rather my kids take classes in ethics in high school than advanced math or biochemistry. Nothing against those subjects, but I think that the two subjects that are woefully undertaught in this country, and that are really the foundational underpinnings of everything that I think is important for the continuation of society, are ethics and civics. I think understanding the way governments work and understanding the way that ethics work, and the way that we treat each other are vitally important.”
— Michael Schur

PEOPLE MENTIONEDWilliam Randolph HearstJohn UpdikeGeorge PlimptonDavid LettermanConan O’BrienDouglas KenneyJim DowneyP.J. O’RourkeLorne MichaelsAndy SambergDan GoorAmy PoehlerDavid Foster WallaceD.H. LawrenceHenry JamesTom HanksJulia RobertsRandy SavageEdward NortonJennifer PhilbinGreg DanielsMichael ScottJim HalpertPam BeeslyRoy AndersonIsaac NewtonTony SopranoPhyllis VanceRyan HowardB.J. NovakOscar MartinezCreed BrattonAngela MartinDavid HalberstamKeith FoulkeCurt SchillingBarack ObamaVladimir NabokovDon DeLilloJoe MorganAngela MerkelTed DansonKristen BellChidi AnagonyeStephen HawkingAristotleImmanuel KantJohn LockeThomas HobbesJeremy BenthamDavid HumeMichael JordanLudwig WittgensteinFriedrich NietzscheWilliam JamesJim LeeTodd McFarlaneWill FerrellMolly ShannonTracy MorganTina FeyJimmy FallonTodd MayMichaelPamela Hieronymi

“Every day is an opportunity for a living masterpiece.”

— Michael Gervais

Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is my job to deconstruct world-class performers to tease out the routines, habits, et cetera that you can apply to your own life.

You’ll get plenty of that in this special episode, which features my interview with Michael Gervais from my 2017 TV Show Fear{less}. The “less” is in parentheses because the objective is to teach you to fear less, not to be fearless.

Fear{less} features in-depth, long-form conversations with top performers, focusing on how they’ve overcome fears and made hard decisions, embracing discomfort and thinking big.

It was produced by Wild West Productions, and I worked with them to make both the video and audio available to you for free, my dear listeners. You can find the video of this episode on YouTube.com/TimFerriss, and eventually you’ll be able to see all episodes for free at YouTube.com/TimFerriss.

Spearheaded by actor/producer and past podcast guest Vince Vaughn, Wild West Productions has produced a string of hit movies including The Internship, Couples Retreat, Four Christmases, and The Break-Up.

In 2020, Wild West produced the comedy The Opening Act, starring Jimmy O. Yang and Cedric The Entertainer. In addition to Fear{less}, their television credits include Undeniable with Joe Buck, ESPN’s 30 for 30 episode about the ’85 Bears, and the Netflix animated show F is for Family.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform. You can watch the interview on YouTube here.

The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

Listen onApple Podcasts[image error]Listen onSpotify[image error]Listen onOvercast#556: Performance Psychologist Michael Gervais — Fear{less} with Tim Ferriss

This episode is brought to you by “5-Bullet Friday,” my very own email newsletter that every Friday features five bullet points highlighting cool things I’ve found that week, including apps, books, documentaries, gadgets, albums, articles, TV shows, new hacks or tricks, and—of course—all sorts of weird stuff I’ve dug up from around the world.

It’s free, it’s always going to be free, and you can subscribe now at tim.blog/friday.

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…

Want to hear another episode with a guest from Fear{less}? Listen to my conversation with David Blaine in which we discussed what happens when stunts go awry, sleep deprivation hallucinations, how magic got David through a night in jail, controlling audience expectations, childhood superstitions, maximizing results with a minimal timeframe, and much more.

#546: Master Magician David Blaine — Fear{less} with Tim Ferriss SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Michael Gervais:

Website | Finding Mastery | Twitter | Instagram | Facebook

Tim Ferriss | YouTubeWild West Productions | TwitterStratos | Red BullHow Systematic Desensitization Can Help You Overcome Fear | HealthlineWhat Is Flooding? Psychology of Coping with Trauma, Anxiety, Phobias, and OCD | BetterHelp“Snakes! Why Did It Have to Be Snakes?” | My Geek WisdomWarrenton, VAFight Club | Prime VideoTao Te Ching by Lao Tzu | AmazonThe Art of Seeing: An Interpretation of the Aesthetic Encounter by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi and Rick E. Robinson | AmazonGrand Canyon National Park | US National Park ServiceWhat is Buddhism? | The Buddhist CentreThe 50 Weirdest Superstitions in Sports | Bleacher ReportThe Amazing, Heartbreaking, Ugly Super Bowl History of the Seattle Seahawks | NBC SportsStoicism Resources and Recommendations | Tim FerrissHow a Book on Stoicism Became Wildly Popular at Every Level of the NFL | Sports IllustratedThe Obstacle Is the Way: The Timeless Art of Turning Trials into Triumph by Ryan Holiday | AmazonThe Magic of Mindfulness: Complain Less, Appreciate More, and Live a Better Life | The Tim Ferriss Show #122The Extreme Engineering That Made Luke Aikins’ Historic Skydive Possible | CreateBella Notte Spaghetti Scene | Lady and the TrampSHOW NOTESHow Michael helped daredevil Felix Baumgartner mentally prepare for his 24-mile fall to earth from the edge of space. [05:06]What does extinguishing phobia look like? [08:07]What was Michael’s childhood like? After moving away from their farm, how did his family help him adjust to life in the big city? [10:48]How Fight Club SoCal led to Surfin’ USA, and what kept Michael’s ambitions in check during this time. [13:48]How Michael began to rein in this anxiety, and who was there to help him. [17:24]Michael describes the week he spent at the bottom of the Grand Canyon, and how it changed his life. [18:37]How Michael became involved in the world of performance psychology, the mentor who guided him, and what his first lessons as a teacher looked like. [21:24]Michael and I share our basic life philosophies. [23:27]What was Michael’s first paid gig with an athlete, and why is the word “potential” often such a powerful performance killer? [26:25]Effective pre-performance routines Michael has seen, and why he discourages the popular deference to superstition so popular among athletes. [27:31]Is the effectiveness of a team dictated simply by a formula of individual multiplied by X number of team members? What ingredients best facilitate a team’s culture toward success? [29:34]Three rules (and one bonus, unwritten rule) that govern the Seattle Seahawks. [30:55]What was it like to lose a Super Bowl? [33:08]What role does mindfulness play in Michael’s world? [36:47]Michael’s advice for someone new to — but curious to explore — mindfulness, and what they can do if it’s just not clicking for them from the get-go. [38:47]To avoid encouraging false confidence leading to overly risky or reckless behavior, how does Michael know when to draw the line? What specific incident really put this sense to the test, and how did he manage it? [43:01]Something Michael believes everyone should do on an everyday basis, and how he puts this into practice. [46:18]What is the first step back from massive failure? [47:29]Would the general advice Michael dispenses differ between high performers and everyday people? [48:57]How much of a role does Stoicism play in Michael’s life? [51:24]What would Michael’s billboard say? [52:28]Parting thoughts. [53:21]MORE MICHAEL GERVAIS QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“‘How do you make decisions?’ is what a philosophy is.”
— Michael Gervais

“Every day is an opportunity for a living masterpiece.”
— Michael Gervais

“The word ‘potential’ can be a crippler.”
— Michael Gervais

“Make a decision, build capacity, and test yourself.”
— Michael Gervais

“Get in really rugged and hostile environments and feel what it feels like to be on the razor’s edge, and be overwhelmed by it, and then come to love that razor’s edge.”
— Michael Gervais

“Learn how to be here now.”
— Michael Gervais

“There’s no shortcut to the path of mastery or understanding the complexity and the beauty of the human experience. It’s complicated.“
— Michael Gervais

“The only reason people change is because of pain. So the worst thing a friend or a psychologist or a coach could do is take away pain.”
— Michael Gervais

PEOPLE MENTIONEDFelix BaumgartnerKerri Walsh JenningsIndiana JonesAristotlePlatoSenecaBuddhaJesusMartin Luther King, Jr.Pete CarrollMarcus AureliusLuke Aikins

“Every day is an opportunity for a living masterpiece.”

— Michael Gervais

Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is my job to deconstruct world-class performers to tease out the routines, habits, et cetera that you can apply to your own life.

You’ll get plenty of that in this special episode, which features my interview with Michael Gervais from my 2017 TV Show Fear{less}. The “less” is in parentheses because the objective is to teach you to fear less, not to be fearless.

Fear{less} features in-depth, long-form conversations with top performers, focusing on how they’ve overcome fears and made hard decisions, embracing discomfort and thinking big.

It was produced by Wild West Productions, and I worked with them to make both the video and audio available to you for free, my dear listeners. You can find the video of this episode on YouTube.com/TimFerriss, and eventually you’ll be able to see all episodes for free at YouTube.com/TimFerriss.

Spearheaded by actor/producer and past podcast guest Vince Vaughn, Wild West Productions has produced a string of hit movies including The Internship, Couples Retreat, Four Christmases, and The Break-Up.

In 2020, Wild West produced the comedy The Opening Act, starring Jimmy O. Yang and Cedric The Entertainer. In addition to Fear{less}, their television credits include Undeniable with Joe Buck, ESPN’s 30 for 30 episode about the ’85 Bears, and the Netflix animated show F is for Family.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform. You can watch the interview on YouTube here.

Listen onApple Podcasts[image error]Listen onSpotify[image error]Listen onOvercast#556: Performance Psychologist Michael Gervais — Fear{less} with Tim Ferriss

This episode is brought to you by “5-Bullet Friday,” my very own email newsletter that every Friday features five bullet points highlighting cool things I’ve found that week, including apps, books, documentaries, gadgets, albums, articles, TV shows, new hacks or tricks, and—of course—all sorts of weird stuff I’ve dug up from around the world.

It’s free, it’s always going to be free, and you can subscribe now at tim.blog/friday.

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…

Want to hear another episode with a guest from Fear{less}? Listen to my conversation with David Blaine in which we discussed what happens when stunts go awry, sleep deprivation hallucinations, how magic got David through a night in jail, controlling audience expectations, childhood superstitions, maximizing results with a minimal timeframe, and much more.

#546: Master Magician David Blaine — Fear{less} with Tim Ferriss SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Michael Gervais:

Website | Finding Mastery | Twitter | Instagram | Facebook

Tim Ferriss | YouTubeWild West Productions | TwitterStratos | Red BullHow Systematic Desensitization Can Help You Overcome Fear | HealthlineWhat Is Flooding? Psychology of Coping with Trauma, Anxiety, Phobias, and OCD | BetterHelp“Snakes! Why Did It Have to Be Snakes?” | My Geek WisdomWarrenton, VAFight Club | Prime VideoTao Te Ching by Lao Tzu | AmazonThe Art of Seeing: An Interpretation of the Aesthetic Encounter by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi and Rick E. Robinson | AmazonGrand Canyon National Park | US National Park ServiceWhat is Buddhism? | The Buddhist CentreThe 50 Weirdest Superstitions in Sports | Bleacher ReportThe Amazing, Heartbreaking, Ugly Super Bowl History of the Seattle Seahawks | NBC SportsStoicism Resources and Recommendations | Tim FerrissHow a Book on Stoicism Became Wildly Popular at Every Level of the NFL | Sports IllustratedThe Obstacle Is the Way: The Timeless Art of Turning Trials into Triumph by Ryan Holiday | AmazonThe Magic of Mindfulness: Complain Less, Appreciate More, and Live a Better Life | The Tim Ferriss Show #122The Extreme Engineering That Made Luke Aikins’ Historic Skydive Possible | CreateBella Notte Spaghetti Scene | Lady and the TrampSHOW NOTESHow Michael helped daredevil Felix Baumgartner mentally prepare for his 24-mile fall to earth from the edge of space. [05:06]What does extinguishing phobia look like? [08:07]What was Michael’s childhood like? After moving away from their farm, how did his family help him adjust to life in the big city? [10:48]How Fight Club SoCal led to Surfin’ USA, and what kept Michael’s ambitions in check during this time. [13:48]How Michael began to rein in this anxiety, and who was there to help him. [17:24]Michael describes the week he spent at the bottom of the Grand Canyon, and how it changed his life. [18:37]How Michael became involved in the world of performance psychology, the mentor who guided him, and what his first lessons as a teacher looked like. [21:24]Michael and I share our basic life philosophies. [23:27]What was Michael’s first paid gig with an athlete, and why is the word “potential” often such a powerful performance killer? [26:25]Effective pre-performance routines Michael has seen, and why he discourages the popular deference to superstition so popular among athletes. [27:31]Is the effectiveness of a team dictated simply by a formula of individual multiplied by X number of team members? What ingredients best facilitate a team’s culture toward success? [29:34]Three rules (and one bonus, unwritten rule) that govern the Seattle Seahawks. [30:55]What was it like to lose a Super Bowl? [33:08]What role does mindfulness play in Michael’s world? [36:47]Michael’s advice for someone new to — but curious to explore — mindfulness, and what they can do if it’s just not clicking for them from the get-go. [38:47]To avoid encouraging false confidence leading to overly risky or reckless behavior, how does Michael know when to draw the line? What specific incident really put this sense to the test, and how did he manage it? [43:01]Something Michael believes everyone should do on an everyday basis, and how he puts this into practice. [46:18]What is the first step back from massive failure? [47:29]Would the general advice Michael dispenses differ between high performers and everyday people? [48:57]How much of a role does Stoicism play in Michael’s life? [51:24]What would Michael’s billboard say? [52:28]Parting thoughts. [53:21]MORE MICHAEL GERVAIS QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“‘How do you make decisions?’ is what a philosophy is.”
— Michael Gervais

“Every day is an opportunity for a living masterpiece.”
— Michael Gervais

“The word ‘potential’ can be a crippler.”
— Michael Gervais

“Make a decision, build capacity, and test yourself.”
— Michael Gervais

“Get in really rugged and hostile environments and feel what it feels like to be on the razor’s edge, and be overwhelmed by it, and then come to love that razor’s edge.”
— Michael Gervais

“Learn how to be here now.”
— Michael Gervais

“There’s no shortcut to the path of mastery or understanding the complexity and the beauty of the human experience. It’s complicated.“
— Michael Gervais

“The only reason people change is because of pain. So the worst thing a friend or a psychologist or a coach could do is take away pain.”
— Michael Gervais

PEOPLE MENTIONEDFelix BaumgartnerKerri Walsh JenningsIndiana JonesAristotlePlatoSenecaBuddhaJesusMartin Luther King, Jr.Pete CarrollMarcus AureliusLuke Aikins

Illustration via 99designs

“Mom always said ‘Be your own best friend,’ and I really, really mastered that.”

— Sarah Silverman

Sarah Silverman (@SarahKSilverman) is a two-time-Emmy Award-winning comedian, actress, writer, and producer.

She currently hosts The Sarah Silverman Podcast and stars in the HBO Max animated series Santa Inc., opposite Seth Rogen. She will next be seen opposite Jennifer Lopez and Owen Wilson in the feature film Marry Me. Other upcoming projects include TBS’s Stupid Pet Tricks, an expansion of the famous David Letterman late-night segment, and the indie psychological thriller Viral, starring alongside Blair Underwood.

Her first book, a memoir called The Bedwetter: Stories of Courage, Redemption, and Pee, which went on to become a New York Times bestseller, is currently being adapted into a musical with the Atlantic Theater Company to premiere in April 2022.

Silverman served as creator, executive producer, and host of the Emmy-nominated series I Love You, America, which streamed weekly on Hulu and saw her connecting with people through honesty and humor. On stage, she continues to be recognized as a force in stand-up comedy. Her latest stand-up special, A Speck of Dust, debuted on Netflix in May 2017 and culminated in two Emmy Award nominations and a Grammy Award nomination. Her additional film and television work includes Battle of the Sexes, I Smile Back, Wreck-It Ralph, Wreck-It Ralph 2: Ralph Breaks The Internet, Masters of Sex, and Bob’s Burgers.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform. You can watch the interview on YouTube here.

Brought to you by Helium 10 all-in-one software suite to sell on Amazon, Dry Farm Wines natural wines designed for fewer hangovers, and Athletic Greens all-in-one nutritional supplement. More on all three below.

The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

Listen onApple Podcasts[image error]Listen onSpotify[image error]Listen onOvercast#563: Sarah Silverman — The Joy of Being Alone, Becoming Your Own Best Friend, Insights from Therapy, and More

This episode is brought to you by Helium 10! Helium 10 is an all-in-one software suite designed to help entrepreneurs launch, manage, and scale a profitable e-commerce business on Amazon and Walmart.com. Whether you are an entrepreneur who wants to start a business on your own terms or you want to scale your existing e-commerce operations, Helium 10 is here to help. They process more than 2 billion data points daily, have a robust 450+ million ASIN database, and provide at-a-glance analytics like seasonal trends for products, profit estimates, and more.

Join more than 1 million Helium 10 users worldwide by signing up for a free account at Helium10.com/Tim!

This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time, “If you could use only one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually AG1 by Athletic Greens, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system. 

Right now, Athletic Greens is offering you their Vitamin D Liquid Formula free with your first subscription purchase—a vital nutrient for a strong immune system and strong bones. Visit AthleticGreens.com/Tim to claim this special offer today and receive the free Vitamin D Liquid Formula (and five free travel packs) with your first subscription purchase! That’s up to a one-year supply of Vitamin D as added value when you try their delicious and comprehensive all-in-one daily greens product.

This episode is brought to you by Dry Farm Wines. I’m a wine drinker, and I love a few glasses over meals with friends. That said, I hate hangovers. For the last few months, all of the wine in my house has been from Dry Farm Wines. Why? At least in my experience, their wine means more fun with fewer headaches. Dry Farm Wines only ships wines that meet very stringent criteria: practically sugar free (less than 0.15g per glass), lower alcohol (less than 12.5% alcohol), additive free (there are more than 70 FDA-approved wine-making additives), lower sulfites, organic, and produced by small family farms.

All Dry Farm Wines are laboratory tested for purity standards by a certified, independent enologist, and all of their wines are also backed by a 100% Happiness Promise—they will either replace or refund any wine you do not love. Last but not least, I find delicious wines I never would have found otherwise. It’s a lot of fun. Dry Farm Wines has a special offer just for listeners of the podcast—an extra bottle in your first box for just one extra penny. Check out all the details at DryFarmWines.com/Tim.

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…

Want to hear an episode with someone who takes half-and-half with his coffee? Have a listen to my conversation with Jerry Seinfeld in which we discussed the book that nudged him toward comedy as a potential career, how to generate and maintain a prolific wellspring of creative ideas, why the word “systemize” is such an important part of his personal operating system, self-rewards and other routines that keep him writing, and much more.

#485: Jerry Seinfeld — A Comedy Legend’s Systems, Routines, and Methods for SuccessSELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Sarah Silverman:

Twitter | Instagram | Facebook

The Sarah Silverman PodcastThe Bedwetter | Atlantic Theater CompanyThe Bedwetter: Stories of Courage, Redemption, and Pee by Sarah Silverman | AmazonMarry Me | IMDbSanta Inc. | HBO MaxI Love You, America | HuluA Speck of Dust | NetflixViral | IMDbComedians in Cars Getting Coffee | NetflixSarah Silverman Opens Up About Her Battle With Depression and Her Gutsiest Career Move Yet | GlamourXanax (Alprazolam) | Rx ListCardigan Mountain State Park | NH State ParksSarah Silverman: ‘There Are Jokes I Made 15 Years Ago I Would Absolutely Not Make Today’ | The GuardianMein Kampf | WikipediaDo You Have an Inner Monologue? Not Everyone Does. | My Modern MetMeditation, Mindset, and Mastery | The Tim Ferriss Show #201Law & Order Franchise | WikipediaColumbo | Prime VideoWhat We Do in the Shadows (Series) | Prime VideoWhat We Do in the Shadows (Film) | Prime VideoPeaky Blinders | NetflixSarah Silverman Discusses Her Movie ‘Jesus Is Magic’ | Fresh Air with Terry GrossThe Origins of Sarah Silverman’s Dirty Mouth | The AdvocateSarah Silverman: Jesus Is Magic | IMDbChris Rock Recalls Testing Jokes at the Comedy Store With Steve Martin Before 2020 Oscars | The Hollywood ReporterThe Story Behind Sarah Silverman’s Firing From ‘Saturday Night Live’ | UproxxSarah Silverman Plays Pickup Basketball (And is a Terrible Teammate) | GQMove On | Sunday In the Park With GeorgeInspirational Writing Advice From Charlie Kaufman | On WritingFahrenheit 451: A Novel by Ray Bradbury | Amazon1984 by George Orwell | AmazonThe Social Dilemma | NetflixWhatever Happened to the News? | Center for Media LiteracyHow to Dox Yourself on the Internet | The NYT Open TeamDonald Trump’s False Claim That Doctors Inflate COVID-19 Deaths to Make More Money | PolitiFactReceive Voice Messages from Your Podcast Listeners | SpeakPipeI Smile Back | Prime VideoCaptain Phillips | Prime VideoPrecious | Prime VideoThe Zen Diaries of Garry Shandling | Prime Video‘Fight Club’ with Better Jokes: Inside Garry Shandling’s Secret Pickup Game | ESPNNCIS | Prime VideoFred Phelps’ Death Sparks a Different Kind of Protest: ‘Sorry for Your Loss,’ ‘Live Your Life and Be Awesome,’ Banners Read | BustleGarry Shandling Memorial Mixes Laughs, Tears and a Few Characters | The New York TimesSHOW NOTESSarah continues her story about childhood depression that Jerry Seinfeld interrupted in Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee, explains what was going on in her life at the time, and answers the question her stepfather posed: “What does it feel like?” [06:34]How did Sarah become her own best friend, and does this make her asocial? [10:47]As a television aficionado, what shows give her comfort and deserve regular revisiting? [17:35]What does Sarah mean by “comedy stress?” [21:02]What Sarah discovered about herself and the comedic process while writing her memoir, working on her first feature, and observing Chris Rock. [22:04]How Sarah’s experience as a writer and performer on Saturday Night Live — and as a basketball player growing up — made her tougher. [28:05]The aftermath of Sarah’s time at SNL and favorite Charlie Kaufman quotes. [36:30]On the rise of extremism across the political spectrum, where it seems to be headed, and what we need to remember about the things we consume via social media. [42:19]The comfort zone of worrying. [46:24]Sarah’s advice to people who are prone to constant self-flagellation. [48:27]How has therapy helped Sarah, and how frequently does she attend sessions? Why did she recently switch therapists? [52:27]Why prompted Sarah to start her own podcast? How does it differ from her comedic work, and how does she choose her participants? [59:47]Is Sarah becoming her mother? [1:05:28]How did Sarah get involved as the dramatic lead in the movie I Smile Back, and what did she take away from the experience? [1:08:16]What did Sarah learn from spending time and working with the late Garry Shandling? [1:11:37]What would Sarah’s billboard say? [1:14:42]Grab joy where you can get it. [1:16:34]Why you should never miss the chance to mourn at a comedian’s funeral. [1:17:31]What would Sarah’s name be if she’d been born a boy? [1:18:41]Parting thoughts. [1:19:11]MORE GUEST QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“When you accept yourself the way you accept any schmuck on the street, you just have a lot more room for other stuff.”
— Sarah Silverman

“There’s nothing better than someone canceling plans.”
— Sarah Silverman

“Mom always said ‘Be your own best friend,’ and I really, really mastered that.”
— Sarah Silverman

“I am a people person, but I just really love being alone.”
— Sarah Silverman

“I had a dad who thought it was hilarious to teach his three-year-old swears, and then I would yell those swears at the market. And I just remember the feeling of yelling it out and all these grownups giving me this wild approval despite themselves. And that feeling, I just became addicted. … Shock became my currency at three and four and five.”
— Sarah Silverman

“Hey, I’m not everyone’s cup of tea, and it’s okay if you don’t like what I say, and it’s okay if you’re no longer a fan.”
— Sarah Silverman

“With my stand-up, I’m a very slow honer. I’ll work on a joke for months, months, months, months, maybe even a year or two years and I hone it so slowly, even though it may sound kind of in the moment, I’m working on it inch by inch. And on the podcast, it’s very immediate. It’s messy.”
— Sarah Silverman

PEOPLE MENTIONEDSeth RogenJennifer LopezOwen WilsonDavid LettermanBlair UnderwoodJerry SeinfeldSarah’s Stepdad and DadSarah’s MomMaryHoward SternJason FriedTaika WaititiJemaine ClementJudd ApatowMartin ScorseseTerry GrossChris RockPaula PoundstoneCharlie KaufmanBalaji SrinivasanNostradamusSarah’s StepmomDoris Kearns GoodwinAbraham LincolnFranklin D. RooseveltWinston ChurchillRaj DesaiDyana GoldmanGarry ShandlingAmy KoppelmanMichael KivesTom HanksGabourey SidibeFred PhelpsMegan Phelps-RoperAuntie MarthaKevin NealonJohn F. KennedyRobert F. Kennedy

Illustration via 99designs

“Mom always said ‘Be your own best friend,’ and I really, really mastered that.”

— Sarah Silverman

Sarah Silverman (@SarahKSilverman) is a two-time-Emmy Award-winning comedian, actress, writer, and producer.

She currently hosts The Sarah Silverman Podcast and stars in the HBO Max animated series Santa Inc., opposite Seth Rogen. She will next be seen opposite Jennifer Lopez and Owen Wilson in the feature film Marry Me. Other upcoming projects include TBS’s Stupid Pet Tricks, an expansion of the famous David Letterman late-night segment, and the indie psychological thriller Viral, starring alongside Blair Underwood.

Her first book, a memoir called The Bedwetter: Stories of Courage, Redemption, and Pee, which went on to become a New York Times bestseller, is currently being adapted into a musical with the Atlantic Theater Company to premiere in April 2022.

Silverman served as creator, executive producer, and host of the Emmy-nominated series I Love You, America, which streamed weekly on Hulu and saw her connecting with people through honesty and humor. On stage, she continues to be recognized as a force in stand-up comedy. Her latest stand-up special, A Speck of Dust, debuted on Netflix in May 2017 and culminated in two Emmy Award nominations and a Grammy Award nomination. Her additional film and television work includes Battle of the Sexes, I Smile Back, Wreck-It Ralph, Wreck-It Ralph 2: Ralph Breaks The Internet, Masters of Sex, and Bob’s Burgers.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Brought to you by Helium 10 all-in-one software suite to sell on Amazon, Dry Farm Wines natural wines designed for fewer hangovers, and Athletic Greens all-in-one nutritional supplement. More on all three below.

Listen onApple Podcasts[image error]Listen onSpotify[image error]Listen onOvercast#563: Sarah Silverman — How to Be Your Own Best Friend, Lessons from Therapy, and Grabbing Joy Where You Can Get It

This episode is brought to you by Helium 10! Helium 10 is an all-in-one software suite designed to help entrepreneurs launch, manage, and scale a profitable e-commerce business on Amazon and Walmart.com. Whether you are an entrepreneur who wants to start a business on your own terms or you want to scale your existing e-commerce operations, Helium 10 is here to help. They process more than 2 billion data points daily, have a robust 450+ million ASIN database, and provide at-a-glance analytics like seasonal trends for products, profit estimates, and more.

Join more than 1 million Helium 10 users worldwide by signing up for a free account at Helium10.com/Tim!

This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time, “If you could only use one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually AG1 by Athletic Greens, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system. 

Right now, Athletic Greens is offering you their Vitamin D Liquid Formula free with your first subscription purchase—a vital nutrient for a strong immune system and strong bones. Visit AthleticGreens.com/Tim to claim this special offer today and receive the free Vitamin D Liquid Formula (and five free travel packs) with your first subscription purchase! That’s up to a one-year supply of Vitamin D as added value when you try their delicious and comprehensive all-in-one daily greens product.

This episode is brought to you by Dry Farm Wines. I’m a wine drinker, and I love a few glasses over meals with friends. That said, I hate hangovers. For the last few months, all of the wine in my house has been from Dry Farm Wines. Why? At least in my experience, their wine means more fun with fewer headaches. Dry Farm Wines only ships wines that meet very stringent criteria: practically sugar free (less than 0.15g per glass), lower alcohol (less than 12.5% alcohol), additive free (there are more than 70 FDA-approved wine-making additives), lower sulfites, organic, and produced by small family farms.

All Dry Farm Wines are laboratory tested for purity standards by a certified, independent enologist, and all of their wines are also backed by a 100% Happiness Promise—they will either replace or refund any wine you do not love. Last but not least, I find delicious wines I never would have found otherwise. It’s a lot of fun. Dry Farm Wines has a special offer just for listeners of the podcast—an extra bottle in your first box for just one extra penny. Check out all the details at DryFarmWines.com/Tim.

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…

Want to hear an episode with someone who takes half-and-half with his coffee? Have a listen to my conversation with Jerry Seinfeld in which we discussed the book that nudged him toward comedy as a potential career, how to generate and maintain a prolific wellspring of creative ideas, why the word “systemize” is such an important part of his personal operating system, self-rewards and other routines that keep him writing, and much more.

#485: Jerry Seinfeld — A Comedy Legend’s Systems, Routines, and Methods for SuccessSELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Sarah Silverman:

Twitter | Instagram | Facebook

The Sarah Silverman PodcastThe Bedwetter | Atlantic Theater CompanyThe Bedwetter: Stories of Courage, Redemption, and Pee by Sarah Silverman | AmazonMarry Me | IMDbSanta Inc. | HBO MaxI Love You, America | HuluA Speck of Dust | NetflixViral | IMDbComedians in Cars Getting Coffee | NetflixSarah Silverman Opens Up About Her Battle With Depression and Her Gutsiest Career Move Yet | GlamourXanax (Alprazolam) | Rx ListCardigan Mountain State Park | NH State ParksSarah Silverman: ‘There Are Jokes I Made 15 Years Ago I Would Absolutely Not Make Today’ | The GuardianMein Kampf | WikipediaDo You Have an Inner Monologue? Not Everyone Does. | My Modern MetMeditation, Mindset, and Mastery | The Tim Ferriss Show #201Law & Order Franchise | WikipediaColumbo | Prime VideoWhat We Do in the Shadows (Series) | Prime VideoWhat We Do in the Shadows (Film) | Prime VideoPeaky Blinders | NetflixSarah Silverman Discusses Her Movie ‘Jesus Is Magic’ | Fresh Air with Terry GrossThe Origins of Sarah Silverman’s Dirty Mouth | The AdvocateSarah Silverman: Jesus Is Magic | IMDbChris Rock Recalls Testing Jokes at the Comedy Store With Steve Martin Before 2020 Oscars | The Hollywood ReporterThe Story Behind Sarah Silverman’s Firing From ‘Saturday Night Live’ | UproxxSarah Silverman Plays Pickup Basketball (And is a Terrible Teammate) | GQMove On | Sunday In the Park With GeorgeInspirational Writing Advice From Charlie Kaufman | On WritingFahrenheit 451: A Novel by Ray Bradbury | Amazon1984 by George Orwell | AmazonThe Social Dilemma | NetflixWhatever Happened to the News? | Center for Media LiteracyHow to Dox Yourself on the Internet | The NYT Open TeamDonald Trump’s False Claim That Doctors Inflate COVID-19 Deaths to Make More Money | PolitiFactReceive Voice Messages from Your Podcast Listeners | SpeakPipeI Smile Back | Prime VideoCaptain Phillips | Prime VideoPrecious | Prime VideoThe Zen Diaries of Garry Shandling | Prime Video‘Fight Club’ with Better Jokes: Inside Garry Shandling’s Secret Pickup Game | ESPNNCIS | Prime VideoFred Phelps’ Death Sparks a Different Kind of Protest: ‘Sorry for Your Loss,’ ‘Live Your Life and Be Awesome,’ Banners Read | BustleGarry Shandling Memorial Mixes Laughs, Tears and a Few Characters | The New York TimesSHOW NOTES

Note from the editor: Timestamps will be added shortly.

Sarah continues her story about childhood depression that Jerry Seinfeld interrupted in Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee, explains what was going on in her life at the time, and answers the question her stepfather posed: “What does it feel like?”How did Sarah become her own best friend, and does this make her asocial?As a television aficionado, what shows give her comfort and deserve regular revisiting?What does Sarah mean by “comedy stress?”What Sarah discovered about herself and the comedic process while writing her memoir, working on her first feature, and observing Chris Rock.How Sarah’s experience as a writer and performer on Saturday Night Live — and as a basketball player growing up — made her tougher.The aftermath of Sarah’s time at SNL and favorite Charlie Kaufman quotes.On the rise of extremism across the political spectrum, where it seems to be headed, and what we need to remember about the things we consume via social media.The comfort zone of worrying.Sarah’s advice to people who are prone to constant self-flagellation.How has therapy helped Sarah, and how frequently does she attend sessions? Why did she recently switch therapists?Why prompted Sarah to start her own podcast? How does it differ from her comedic work, and how does she choose her participants?Is Sarah becoming her mother?How did Sarah get involved as the dramatic lead in the movie I Smile Back, and what did she take away from the experience?What did Sarah learn from spending time and working with the late Garry Shandling?What would Sarah’s billboard say?Grab joy where you can get it.What would Sarah’s name be if she’d been born a boy?Parting thoughts.MORE GUEST QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“When you accept yourself the way you accept any schmuck on the street, you just have a lot more room for other stuff.”
— Sarah Silverman

“There’s nothing better than someone canceling plans.”
— Sarah Silverman

“Mom always said ‘Be your own best friend,’ and I really, really mastered that.”
— Sarah Silverman

“I am a people person, but I just really love being alone.”
— Sarah Silverman

“I had a dad who thought it was hilarious to teach his three-year-old swears, and then I would yell those swears at the market. And I just remember the feeling of yelling it out and all these grownups giving me this wild approval despite themselves. And that feeling, I just became addicted. … Shock became my currency at three and four and five.”
— Sarah Silverman

“Hey, I’m not everyone’s cup of tea, and it’s okay if you don’t like what I say, and it’s okay if you’re no longer a fan.”
— Sarah Silverman

“With my stand-up, I’m a very slow honer. I’ll work on a joke for months, months, months, months, maybe even a year or two years and I hone it so slowly, even though it may sound kind of in the moment, I’m working on it inch by inch. And on the podcast, it’s very immediate. It’s messy.”
— Sarah Silverman

PEOPLE MENTIONEDSeth RogenJennifer LopezOwen WilsonDavid LettermanBlair UnderwoodJerry SeinfeldSarah’s Stepdad and DadSarah’s MomMaryHoward SternJason FriedTaika WaititiJemaine ClementJudd ApatowMartin ScorseseTerry GrossChris RockPaula PoundstoneCharlie KaufmanBalaji SrinivasanNostradamusSarah’s StepmomDoris Kearns GoodwinAbraham LincolnFranklin D. RooseveltWinston ChurchillRaj DesaiDyana GoldmanGarry ShandlingAmy KoppelmanMichael KivesTom HanksGabourey SidibeFred PhelpsMegan Phelps-RoperAuntie MarthaKevin NealonJohn F. KennedyRobert F. Kennedy