Timothy Ferriss's Blog, page 33
December 14, 2021
Jerry Colonna — How to Take a Two-Month Sabbatical Every Year (#554)

“What benefit do I get from the conditions I say I don’t want?”
— Jerry Colonna
Jerry Colonna (@jerrycolonna) is the CEO and co-founder of Reboot.io, an executive coaching and leadership development firm dedicated to the notion that better humans make better leaders. For nearly 20 years, he has used the knowledge gained as an investor, an executive, and a board member for more than 100 organizations to help entrepreneurs and others lead with humanity, resilience, and equanimity.
Prior to his career as a coach, he was a partner with JPMorgan Partners (JPMP), the private equity arm of JPMorgan Chase. Previously, he led New York City-based Flatiron Partners, which he founded in 1996 with partner Fred Wilson. Flatiron became one of the nation’s most successful early-stage investment programs. Jerry’s first leadership position, at age 25, was editor-in-chief of InformationWeek magazine. He is the author of Reboot: Leadership and the Art of Growing Up.
Jerry lives in Boulder, Colorado. This is his second appearance on the podcast. His first can be found at tim.blog/jerrycolonna.
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform. You can watch the interview on YouTube here.
Brought to you by Wealthfront automated investing, Headspace easy-to-use app with guided meditations, and Eight Sleep’s Pod Pro Cover sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating. More on all three below.

This episode is brought to you by Headspace! Headspace is your daily dose of mindfulness in the form of guided meditations in an easy-to-use app. Whatever the situation, Headspace can help you feel better. Overwhelmed? Headspace has a 3-minute SOS meditation for you. Need some help falling asleep? Headspace has wind-down sessions their members swear by. And for parents, Headspace even has morning meditations you can do with your kids. Headspace’s approach to mindfulness can reduce stress, improve sleep, boost focus, and increase your overall sense of well-being.
Go to Headspace.com/Tim for a FREE one-month trial with access to Headspace’s full library of meditations for every situation.
This episode is brought to you by Wealthfront! Wealthfront pioneered the automated investing movement, sometimes referred to as ‘robo-advising,’ and they currently oversee $20 billion of assets for their clients. It takes about three minutes to sign up, and then Wealthfront will build you a globally diversified portfolio of ETFs based on your risk appetite and manage it for you at an incredibly low cost.
Smart investing should not feel like a rollercoaster ride. Let the professionals do the work for you. Go to Wealthfront.com/Tim and open a Wealthfront account today, and you’ll get your first $5,000 managed for free, for life. Wealthfront will automate your investments for the long term. Get started today at Wealthfront.com/Tim.
This episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep! Eight Sleep’s Pod Pro Cover is the easiest and fastest way to sleep at the perfect temperature. It pairs dynamic cooling and heating with biometric tracking to offer the most advanced (and user-friendly) solution on the market. Simply add the Pod Pro Cover to your current mattress and start sleeping as cool as 55°F or as hot as 110°F. It also splits your bed in half, so your partner can choose a totally different temperature.
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What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…
Want to hear the last time Jerry was on the show? Listen to our conversation in which we discuss being complicit in creating the conditions in life we don’t really want, nagging self-doubt, finding time for self-discovery, confronting the difficulty most of us have with saying “no,” acknowledging compassion from a distance, journaling, guilt versus remorse, and much more.
#373: Jerry Colonna — The Coach with the Spider TattooSELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Jerry Colonna:Jerry Colonna — The Coach with the Spider Tattoo | The Tim Ferriss Show #373Reboot: Leadership and the Art of Growing Up by Jerry Colonna | AmazonWhat About Bob? | Prime VideoA Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum | Prime VideoThe Difference Between Coaching and Therapy Is Greatly Overstated | Psychology TodayVagabonding: An Uncommon Guide to the Art of Long-Term World Travel by Rolf Potts | AmazonWall Street | Prime VideoRashomon | Prime VideoWhat is Inbox Zero? | WhatIs.comWhat My Morning Journal Looks Like | Tim FerrissShabbat 101 | My Jewish LearningGrand Canyon National Park | US National Park ServiceMeteor Showers Calendar 2022: Dates, Times, and How to See Them | InverseWhat Is Zen Buddhism and How Do You Practice It? | Lion’s RoarBird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life by Anne Lamott | AmazonRadical Acceptance: Embracing Your Life with the Heart of a Buddha by Tara Brach | AmazonStay on Your Cushion: The Importance of ‘Hot’ and ‘Cool’ Boredom During Meditation | HuffPost LifeFind Your Adventure Here! | Visit GreenlandFutaleufú River Rafting & Kayaking | Whitewater GuidebookNamibia | The CommonwealthThe Power Of A Digital Sabbath | Feld ThoughtsDigital Sabbath in the Time of COVID | Feld ThoughtsAustin, TXSan Francisco Main Library Trying to Address Bathroom Cleanliness Issues | The San Francisco ExaminerOne Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest by Ken Kesey | AmazonSome Practical Thoughts on Suicide | Tim FerrissCOVID-19 Is Making America’s Loneliness Epidemic Even Worse | TimeStaying Safe Around Bears | US National Park ServiceTranscendental MeditationSix Months Off: How To Plan, Negotiate, & Take The Break You Need Without Burning Bridges Or Going Broke by Hope Dlugozima, James Scott, and David Sharp | AmazonTo Bless the Space Between Us: A Book of Blessings by John O’Donohue | AmazonTools of Titans: The Tactics, Routines, and Habits of Billionaires, Icons, and World-Class Performers by Tim Ferriss | AmazonSquid Game | NetflixHow to Cage the Monkey Mind | The Tim Ferriss Show #175Lost by David Wagoner | Poetry MagazineSHOW NOTESWhen there’s not an unchecked global pandemic going on, Jerry has been taking an annual two-month sabbatical for the past 10 years. He tells us about the first one that kicked off this tradition, how it came about, and the inner thoughts that initially tried to talk him out of it. [07:35]A counter to the “Can I afford it?” question someone of any means might ask themself when considering the form their own sabbatical could take. [14:25]What makes a sabbatical work in preparation and practice? [19:34]What kind of rookie sabbatical mistakes did Jerry make early on, and what did they teach him? [23:47]How does Jerry handle email on a sabbatical? [25:56]What happens if there’s a crisis that requires Jerry’s attention when he’s on sabbatical — and how would someone communicate this to him [27:38]Thinking back on past sabbaticals, what factors contribute to emerging fully charged versus least recharged? [29:33]Shooting stars, terrible first drafts, and sabbatical-related epiphanies about productivity. [33:37]How might we reframe and reduce the complexities that keep us from carving out time for sabbaticals so we don’t suffer consequences for neglecting them? [38:44]Explorations of complex structures, DNA versus subroutines, and hot and cold boredom. [45:46]Advice Jerry would have for someone considering a sabbatical who is unsure how to begin untangling themselves from the complexities that keep them busy. [53:58]Thoughts on feelings of loneliness or alienation that a sabbatical might conjure up, and how changing the surroundings and/or company you keep can make all the difference. [57:39]Resources Jerry might suggest to listeners who are considering the possibility of a sabbatical. [1:11:51]Lost by David Wagner. [1:16:44]Parting thoughts. [1:19:57]MORE JERRY COLONNA QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW“What benefit do I get from the conditions I say I don’t want?”
— Jerry Colonna
“I was at my most productive when I stopped trying to be productive.”
— Jerry Colonna
“Sabbatical is a time of thinking differently, of considering things differently.”
— Jerry Colonna
“For many of our friends who are in the startup land, the thought of taking a weekend off is as terrifying as my thought of taking two months off. And that’s a problem. That’s a problem that not only affects them physically, it’s a problem that affects them mentally. It’s a problem that actually, I would argue, undermines their leadership capabilities and creates toxic environments.”
— Jerry Colonna
“By law, you have to build into the structure of the business: sick time, vacation time, parental leave, all sorts of policies. And then periodically, something awful happens, and we say, ‘Okay. Let’s build in some mental health time.’ But it’s always after some sort of horrible event.”
— Jerry Colonna
“A lesson I learned was to not turn the sabbatical into another source of self-criticism.”
— Jerry Colonna
“The number one rule in sabbatical is Sabbath. Rest. Rest. The body needs rest; the mind and heart need rest. That’s the simplest way I can put it for you.”
— Jerry Colonna
The 30 Most Popular Episodes of The Tim Ferriss Show from 2021
The Tim Ferriss Show crossed 700 million downloads this year, and it’s fast approaching 800 million. Doing the podcast has been one of my emotional life rafts and saving graces amidst the madness of 2021, so thank you from the bottom of my heart for listening.
In case you want to dig in, perhaps after a pumpkin pie or cookie coma, below are the most popular episodes of the year. You can spot some trends.
We used an imperfect methodology—number of downloads one week after publication—but it’s good enough to surface episodes that got people really excited and that quickly spread via word of mouth.
2022 is going to be very big. If you haven’t already, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you find your audio morsels.
Happy holidays to you and yours!
With sincerest thanks,
Tim
Below is the list, in descending order of downloads (i.e., #1 had the most downloads one week after publication):
#4: Dr. Andrew Huberman — A Neurobiologist on Optimizing Sleep, Enhancing Performance, Reducing Anxiety, Increasing Testosterone, and Using the Body to Control the Mind (Episode #521)
#6: Dr. Peter Attia on Longevity Drugs, Alzheimer’s Disease, and the 3 Most Important Levers to Pull (Episode #517)
#7: Katie Haun on the Dark Web, Gangs, Investigating Bitcoin, and the New Magic of “Nifties” (NFTs) (Episode #499)
#8: Jordan Peterson on Rules for Life, Psychedelics, The Bible, and Much More (Episode #502)
#9: The Random Show — Life-Extension Misadventures, Blockchain/Crypto Investing, NFT Experiments, Dogecoin, Zen Buddhism, and Weathering Sharp Elbows (Episode #527)
#10: The Random Show — Bitcoin Pros and Cons, 2021 Resolutions, Fave Books, Lucid Dreaming, Couples Therapy, and More (Episode #493)
#11: Greg McKeown — The Art of Effortless Results, How to Take the Lighter Path, the Joys of Simplicity, and More (Episode #510)
#12: Iconic Therapist Dr. Sue Johnson — How to Improve Sex and Crack the Code of Love (Episode #529)
#14: Sheila Heen of The Harvard Negotiation Project — How to Navigate Hard Conversations, the Subtle Art of Apologizing, and a Powerful 60-Day Challenge (Episode #532)
#15: Chip Wilson — Building Lululemon, the Art of Setting Goals, and the 10 Great Decisions of Your Life (Episode #514)
#16: Diana Chapman — How to Get Unstuck, Do “The Work,” Take Radical Responsibility, and Reduce Drama in Your Life (Episode #536)
#17: Michael Pollan — This Is Your Mind on Plants (Episode #520)
#18: Michael Phelps and Grant Hackett — Two Legends on Competing, Overcoming Adversity, Must-Read Books, and Much More (Episode #494)
#19: Marc Randolph on Building Netflix, Battling Blockbuster, Negotiating with Amazon/Bezos, and Scraping the Barnacles Off the Hull (Episode #496)
#20: Ramit Sethi — How to Play Offense with Money, Plan Bucket Lists, Build a Rich Life with Your Partner, and Take a Powerful $100 Challenge (Episode #524)
#21: Dr. Stefi Cohen — 25 World Records, Power Training, Deadlifting 4.4x Bodyweight, Sports Psychology, Overcoming Pain, and More (Episode #491)
#22: The Random Show — Biohacking, Tim’s COVID Experience, Holiday Gift Ideas, Favorite New Apps, Bad Science, Quarantine Delights, and a Small Dose of NFTs and DAOs (Episode #549)
#23: Steven Pressfield — How to Overcome Self-Sabotage and Resistance, Routines for Little Successes, and The Hero’s Journey vs. The Artist’s Journey (Episode #501)
#24: Henry Shukman — Zen, Tools for Awakening, Ayahuasca vs. Meditation, Intro to Koans, and Using Wounds as the Doorway (Episode #531)
#25: Anne Lamott on Taming Your Inner Critic, Finding Grace, and Prayer (Episode #522)
#26: Richard Schwartz — IFS, Psychedelic Experiences without Drugs, and Finding Inner Peace for Our Many Parts (Episode #492)
#27: Paul Conti, MD — How Trauma Works and How to Heal from It (Episode #533)
#28: George Mumford, Mindfulness Coach to Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant, on Awareness, Compassionate Action, The Dizziness of Freedom, and More (Episode #509)
#29: David Rubenstein, Co-Founder of The Carlyle Group, on Lessons Learned, Jeff Bezos, Raising Billions of Dollars, Advising Presidents, and Sprinting to the End (Episode #495)
#30: Chris Bosh on How to Reinvent Yourself, The Way and The Power, the Poison of Complaining, Leonardo da Vinci, and More (Episode #515)
P.S. In case you missed it, transcripts for all episodes are available for free at this link, and you can find vetted podcast sponsors at this link.
P.P.S. To stay up to date when new episodes are released, and to receive other goodies, take a few seconds and sign up for my newsletter. It has 1.5M+ subscribers and includes “5-Bullet Friday,” a short email of five bullets sending you off to your weekend with fun and useful things to ponder and try. If you change your mind, it’s easy to unsubscribe.
The Top 30 Episodes of The Tim Ferriss Show from 2021
The Tim Ferriss Show crossed 700 million downloads this year, and it’s fast approaching 800 million. Doing the podcast has been one of my emotional life rafts and saving graces amidst the madness of 2021, so thank you from the bottom of my heart for listening.
In case you want to dig in, perhaps after a pumpkin pie or cookie coma, below are the most popular episodes of the year. You can spot some trends.
We used an imperfect methodology—number of downloads one week after publication—but it’s good enough to surface episodes that got people really excited and that quickly spread via word of mouth.
2022 is going to be very big. If you haven’t already, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you find your audio morsels.
Happy holidays to you and yours!
With sincerest thanks,
Tim
Below is the list, in descending order of downloads (i.e., #1 had the most downloads one week after publication):
#4: Dr. Andrew Huberman — A Neurobiologist on Optimizing Sleep, Enhancing Performance, Reducing Anxiety, Increasing Testosterone, and Using the Body to Control the Mind (Episode #521)
#6: Dr. Peter Attia on Longevity Drugs, Alzheimer’s Disease, and the 3 Most Important Levers to Pull (Episode #517)
#7: Katie Haun on the Dark Web, Gangs, Investigating Bitcoin, and the New Magic of “Nifties” (NFTs) (Episode #499)
#8: Jordan Peterson on Rules for Life, Psychedelics, The Bible, and Much More (Episode #502)
#9: The Random Show — Life-Extension Misadventures, Blockchain/Crypto Investing, NFT Experiments, Dogecoin, Zen Buddhism, and Weathering Sharp Elbows (Episode #527)
#10: The Random Show — Bitcoin Pros and Cons, 2021 Resolutions, Fave Books, Lucid Dreaming, Couples Therapy, and More (Episode #493)
#11: Greg McKeown — The Art of Effortless Results, How to Take the Lighter Path, the Joys of Simplicity, and More (Episode #510)
#12: Iconic Therapist Dr. Sue Johnson — How to Improve Sex and Crack the Code of Love (Episode #529)
#14: Sheila Heen of The Harvard Negotiation Project — How to Navigate Hard Conversations, the Subtle Art of Apologizing, and a Powerful 60-Day Challenge (Episode #532)
#15: Chip Wilson — Building Lululemon, the Art of Setting Goals, and the 10 Great Decisions of Your Life (Episode #514)
#16: Diana Chapman — How to Get Unstuck, Do “The Work,” Take Radical Responsibility, and Reduce Drama in Your Life (Episode #536)
#17: Michael Pollan — This Is Your Mind on Plants (Episode #520)
#18: Michael Phelps and Grant Hackett — Two Legends on Competing, Overcoming Adversity, Must-Read Books, and Much More (Episode #494)
#19: Marc Randolph on Building Netflix, Battling Blockbuster, Negotiating with Amazon/Bezos, and Scraping the Barnacles Off the Hull (Episode #496)
#20: Ramit Sethi — How to Play Offense with Money, Plan Bucket Lists, Build a Rich Life with Your Partner, and Take a Powerful $100 Challenge (Episode #524)
#21: Dr. Stefi Cohen — 25 World Records, Power Training, Deadlifting 4.4x Bodyweight, Sports Psychology, Overcoming Pain, and More (Episode #491)
#22: The Random Show — Biohacking, Tim’s COVID Experience, Holiday Gift Ideas, Favorite New Apps, Bad Science, Quarantine Delights, and a Small Dose of NFTs and DAOs (Episode #549)
#23: Steven Pressfield — How to Overcome Self-Sabotage and Resistance, Routines for Little Successes, and The Hero’s Journey vs. The Artist’s Journey (Episode #501)
#24: Henry Shukman — Zen, Tools for Awakening, Ayahuasca vs. Meditation, Intro to Koans, and Using Wounds as the Doorway (Episode #531)
#25: Anne Lamott on Taming Your Inner Critic, Finding Grace, and Prayer (Episode #522)
#26: Richard Schwartz — IFS, Psychedelic Experiences without Drugs, and Finding Inner Peace for Our Many Parts (Episode #492)
#27: Paul Conti, MD — How Trauma Works and How to Heal from It (Episode #533)
#28: George Mumford, Mindfulness Coach to Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant, on Awareness, Compassionate Action, The Dizziness of Freedom, and More (Episode #509)
#29: David Rubenstein, Co-Founder of The Carlyle Group, on Lessons Learned, Jeff Bezos, Raising Billions of Dollars, Advising Presidents, and Sprinting to the End (Episode #495)
#30: Chris Bosh on How to Reinvent Yourself, The Way and The Power, the Poison of Complaining, Leonardo da Vinci, and More (Episode #515)
P.S. In case you missed it, transcripts for all episodes are available for free at this link, and you can find vetted podcast sponsors at this link.
P.P.S. To stay up to date when new episodes are released, and to receive other goodies, take a few seconds and sign up for my newsletter. It has 1.5M+ subscribers and includes “5-Bullet Friday,” a short email of five bullets sending you off to your weekend with fun and useful things to ponder and try. If you change your mind, it’s easy to unsubscribe.
December 8, 2021
Jessica Lahey on Parenting, Desirable Difficulties, The Gift of Failure, Self-Efficacy, and The Addiction Inoculation (#553)

“Did you make someone feel seen or heard today?“
— Jessica Lahey
Jessica Lahey (@jesslahey) is the author of the New York Times bestselling book The Gift of Failure: How the Best Parents Learn to Let Go So Their Children Can Succeed and The Addiction Inoculation: Raising Healthy Kids in a Culture of Dependence. Over twenty years, Jessica has taught every grade from sixth to twelfth in both public and private schools and spent five years teaching in a drug and alcohol rehab for adolescents in Vermont. She currently serves as a recovery coach at Sana at Stowe, a medical detox and recovery center in Stowe, Vermont, where 100 percent of her salary goes to a scholarship fund for young adults.
Jessica writes about education, parenting, and child welfare for The Washington Post, New York Times, and The Atlantic, is a book critic for Air Mail, and wrote the educational curriculum for Amazon Kids’ award-winning The Stinky and Dirty Show. She co-hosts the #AmWriting podcast with bestselling authors K.J. Dell’Antonia and Sarina Bowen from her house in Vermont, where she lives with her husband, two sons, and a lot of dogs.
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Brought to you by Wealthfront automated investing, Athletic Greens all-in-one nutritional supplement, and BlockFi crypto platform. More on all three below.

This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time, “If you could only use one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually Athletic Greens, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system.
Right now, Athletic Greens is offering you their Vitamin D Liquid Formula free with your first subscription purchase—a vital nutrient for a strong immune system and strong bones. Visit AthleticGreens.com/Tim to claim this special offer today and receive the free Vitamin D Liquid Formula (and five free travel packs) with your first subscription purchase! That’s up to a one-year supply of Vitamin D as added value when you try their delicious and comprehensive all-in-one daily greens product.
This episode is brought to you by Wealthfront! Wealthfront pioneered the automated investing movement, sometimes referred to as ‘robo-advising,’ and they currently oversee $20 billion of assets for their clients. It takes about three minutes to sign up, and then Wealthfront will build you a globally diversified portfolio of ETFs based on your risk appetite and manage it for you at an incredibly low cost.
Smart investing should not feel like a rollercoaster ride. Let the professionals do the work for you. Go to Wealthfront.com/Tim and open a Wealthfront account today, and you’ll get your first $5,000 managed for free, for life. Wealthfront will automate your investments for the long term. Get started today at Wealthfront.com/Tim.
This episode is brought to you by BlockFi! BlockFi is building a bridge between cryptocurrencies and traditional financial and wealth-management products. I became excited enough about this company that I ended up becoming an investor.
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What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…
Want to hear another episode with a writer Jessica and I both admire? Listen to my conversation with award-winning author Mary Karr, in which we discuss curiosity and presence as a solution to fear, the role spirituality plays in maintaining her sobriety as a former atheist, coping with and expressing the aftermath of trauma, what she wished she’d known about therapy when she was younger, and much more.
#479: Mary Karr — The Master of Memoir on Creative Process and Finding Gifts in the SufferingSELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Jessica Lahey:Website | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram
The Gift of Failure: How the Best Parents Learn to Let Go So Their Children Can Succeed by Jessica Lahey | AmazonThe Addiction Inoculation: Raising Healthy Kids in a Culture of Dependence by Jessica Lahey | AmazonThe #AmWriting PodcastSana at StoweThe Stinky and Dirty Show | AmazonHôpital Albert Schweitzer | WikipediaComplete Dune Series by Frank Herbert | AmazonLiving Well Is the Best Revenge | Quote InvestigatorRadiolab: Podcasts | WNYC StudiosBelmont Hill SchoolWhy Parents Need to Let Their Children Fail by Jessica Lahey | The AtlanticDr. Gabor Maté — New Paradigms, Ayahuasca, and Redefining Addiction | The Tim Ferriss Show #298The First Day: A Substance Use Prevention Education FilmIn the Realm of Hungry Ghosts: Close Encounters with Addiction by Gabor Maté, MD | AmazonScattered: How Attention Deficit Disorder Originates and What You Can Do About It by Gabor Maté, MD | AmazonPredicting Alcohol Use Disorder Remission: A Longitudinal Multimodal Multi-Featured Machine Learning Approach | Translational PsychiatryKetamine: A Transformational Catalyst | MAPSHamilton Morris on Iboga, 5-MeO-DMT, the Power of Ritual, New Frontiers in Psychedelics, Excellent Problems to Solve, and More | The Tim Ferriss Show #511Hamilton’s Pharmacopeia | Prime VideoMichael Pollan — This Is Your Mind on Plants | The Tim Ferriss Show #520How to Change Your Mind: What the New Science of Psychedelics Teaches Us About Consciousness, Dying, Addiction, Depression, and Transcendence by Michael Pollan | AmazonGuide to Opioid Replacement Therapy | The Recovery Village Drug and Alcohol RehabDifferences Between Extrinsic and Intrinsic Motivation | Verywell MindFlow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi | AmazonWhy We Do What We Do: Understanding Self-Motivation by Edward L. Deci and Richard Flaste | AmazonDesirable Difficulty | WikipediaMake It Stick: The Science of Successful Learning by Peter C. Brown, Henry L. Roediger III, and Mark A. McDaniel | AmazonPerceived Threat, Controlling Parenting, and Children’s Achievement Orientations | Motivation and EmotionRole of Self-Esteem and Self-Efficacy on Competence: A Conceptual Framework | IOSR Journal of Humanities and Social ScienceThe Hoffman Process | The Hoffman Institute FoundationWhat ACEs/PCEs Do You Have? | ACEs Too HighMaking Hope Happen: Create the Future You Want for Yourself and Others by Shane J. Lopez, Ph.D. | AmazonOn Writing: A Memoir Of The Craft by Stephen King | AmazonHow Stephen King Teaches Writing by Jessica Lahey | The AtlanticThe Book of Eels: Our Enduring Fascination with the Most Mysterious Creature in the Natural World by Patrik Svensson | AmazonWinter World: The Ingenuity of Animal Survival by Bernd Heinrich | AmazonSummer World: A Season of Bounty by Bernd Heinrich | AmazonMind of the Raven: Investigations and Adventures with Wolf-Birds by Bernd Heinrich | AmazonOwls of the Eastern Ice: A Quest to Find and Save the World’s Largest Owl by Jonathan C. Slaght | AmazonMiddlebury Language SchoolsDiving Deeper into Medically Assisted Detox | Beachside RehabDelirium Tremens (DTs) | WikipediaNancy Reagan and the Negative Impact of the ‘Just Say No’ Anti-Drug Campaign | The GuardianFewer Teens Are Drinking. But a Group of Pediatricians Is Begging Parents To Be Vigilant. By Jessica Lahey | the Washington PostThe Effects of Marijuana on Your Memory | Harvard HealthInoculation Theory | WikipediaDay 7 | Armchair ExpertDax Shepard on the Craft of Podcasting, Favorite Books, and Dancing with Your Demons | The Tim Ferriss Show #480Scrivener | Literature & LatteDreyer’s English: An Utterly Correct Guide to Clarity and Style by Benjamin Dreyer | AmazonThe OpEd ProjectJulie Lythcott-Haims: How to Raise Successful Kids — Without Over-Parenting | TED TalkHow to Raise an Adult: Break Free of the Overparenting Trap and Prepare Your Kid for Success by Julie Lythcott-Haims | AmazonReal American: A Memoir by Julie Lythcott-Haims | AmazonHalf a Life: A Memoir by Darin Strauss | AmazonMary Karr — The Master of Memoir on Creative Process and Finding Gifts in the Suffering | The Tim Ferriss Show #479Little, Big by John Crowley | AmazonThe Book of Two Ways: A Novel by Jodi Picoult | AmazonImage Line FL Studio 20 | AmazonThe 10 Best Free Serum Presets for Music Production | LANDR BlogThe Most Elegant Key Change in All of Pop Music | Adam NeelyElectrojazz + EDM | SungazerBerklee School of MusicIn 1968, Vermont Banned Billboards. Here’s Why. | TwistedSifterAge of Opportunity: Lessons from the New Science of Adolescence by Laurence Steinberg | AmazonGirls & Sex: Navigating the Complicated New Landscape by Peggy Orenstein | AmazonBoys & Sex: Young Men on Hookups, Love, Porn, Consent, and Navigating the New Masculinity by Peggy Orenstein | Amazon16 and Recovering | MTVSHOW NOTESWhy is Jessica fond of Nobel Peace Prize winner Albert Schweitzer’s intention to make his life his argument? [05:21]As someone who’s educated children from grades sixth to 12th, what does Jessica consider the most difficult cohort of students, and what would she change about the structure of when and how this group is commonly instructed? [07:50]What do I like about this particular grade — to the point I once considered specializing in teaching it? [13:29]What was “taking a nap” code for in Jessica’s extended family? [14:54]Why is June 7th, 2013 an important date for Jessica? [17:10]Why it’s important to understand the roots of an addiction if we want to gain control over it. [20:20]Jessica acknowledges the practical application of psychedelics — provided the recipient has a fully-formed adult brain. [23:15]Did Jessica’s commitment to writing a book influence how seriously she took the conversation with her father that changed her life? What most helped her adapt to the changes she knew she had to make in the aftermath? What has she found unhelpful? [24:37]What was the catalyst for The Atlantic article that evolved into The Gift of Failure? What are the book’s main theses? [30:39]Confidence vs. competence when trying to foster a child’s self-esteem. [36:43]How did writing The Gift of Failure affect Jessica’s parenting style? [42:07]Why instilling hope in a child is so crucial to their lifelong well-being. [46:05]What books and activities keep Jessica aligned along the path of hope and optimism? [49:34]What did Jessica find surprising in her research about preventing substance use and abuse in kids? [52:49]What does it look like to be a recovery coach at Sana? What is the format? [55:34]Why did Jessica decide to write Addiction Inoculation? [1:00:16]If “Just say no” is an ineffective script, what are some better ways for parents to guide their children toward making better decisions when they’re exposed to drugs and alcohol? [1:01:18]Advice for parents who get the dreaded phone call that their child has been caught up in non-ideal behavior. [1:06:19]A favorite failure. [1:10:29]Examples of what made Jessica’s “not-to-do” checklist when she was writing her second book, and how she audits her own work for clarity. [1:15:21]Writers whose work Jessica finds deserving of extra attention. [1:21:20]Best investments of time, money, or energy. [1:29:13]What would Jessica’s billboard say (provided she were allowed to post one in her home state)? [1:33:57]Visible quotations and objects on hand that serve to inspire Jessica on a daily basis. [1:35:27]Parting thoughts on the challenges of releasing a book during a pandemic, having (rather than avoiding) difficult conversations, why Jessica thinks I’d be a fantastic ninth-grade teacher, and Jessica’s dream. [1:41:25]MORE QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW“I decided I would make my life my argument.”
— Albert Schweitzer
“Rigidity is the bane of my existence.”
— Jessica Lahey
“Recovery looks different for different people.”
— Jessica Lahey
“Did you make someone feel seen or heard today?”
— Jessica Lahey
“There is nothing worse than taking a kid who is just figuring the world out and then telling them, at every turn, that their perceptions are inaccurate.”
— Jessica Lahey
“Resourcefulness only comes from having tried something and screwed it up and tried it again and all that, and had support throughout that process with someone who actually believes in your ability to be resourceful.”
— Jessica Lahey
“A lot of what I write about is, ‘We’re not doing this right. Oh, look, I’m not doing this right. How can I do better and learn from it?’ which is super fun and a little humiliating.”
— Jessica Lahey
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
PEOPLE MENTIONEDKJ Dell’AntoniaSarina BowenTim LaheyAlbert SchweitzerGeorge HerbertFrank HerbertGabor MatéChris HerrenMarc SchuckitHamilton MorrisMichael PollanDaniel PinkEdward L. DeciMihaly CsikszentmihalyiJennie GritzWendy GrolnickMike Maples, Jr.Shane J. LopezBernd HeinrichStephen KingSanchit MarutiDax ShepardBenjamin DreyerJulie Lythcott-HaimsDarin StraussMary KarrJohn CrowleyJodi PicoultAdam NeelyCeline DionPolyphonicLaurence SteinbergHeraclitusPower GirlHarry PotterPeggy OrensteinDecember 2, 2021
TOMS Founder Blake Mycoskie — Fear{less} with Tim Ferriss (#551)

“Fear really was a motivator, and has been in many different chapters in TOMS. Not because I was afraid of failing as a business, but failing other humans is a much heavier burden to wear.”
— Blake Mycoskie
Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is my job to deconstruct world-class performers to tease out the routines, habits, et cetera that you can apply to your own life.
You’ll get plenty of that in this special episode, which features my interview with Blake Mycoskie from my 2017 TV Show Fear{less}. The “less” is in parentheses because the objective is to teach you to fear less, not to be fearless.
Fear{less} features in-depth, long-form conversations with top performers, focusing on how they’ve overcome fears and made hard decisions, embracing discomfort and thinking big.
It was produced by Wild West Productions, and I worked with them to make both the video and audio available to you for free, my dear listeners. You can find the video of this episode on YouTube.com/TimFerriss, and eventually you’ll be able to see all episodes for free at YouTube.com/TimFerriss.
Spearheaded by actor/producer and past podcast guest Vince Vaughn, Wild West Productions has produced a string of hit movies including The Internship, Couples Retreat, Four Christmases, and The Break-Up.
In 2020, Wild West produced the comedy The Opening Act, starring Jimmy O. Yang and Cedric The Entertainer. In addition to Fear{less}, their television credits include Undeniable with Joe Buck, ESPN’s 30 for 30 episode about the ’85 Bears, and the Netflix animated show F is for Family.
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform. You can watch the interview on YouTube here.

This episode is brought to you by “5-Bullet Friday,” my very own email newsletter that every Friday features five bullet points highlighting cool things I’ve found that week, including apps, books, documentaries, gadgets, albums, articles, TV shows, new hacks or tricks, and—of course—all sorts of weird stuff I’ve dug up from around the world.
It’s free, it’s always going to be free, and you can subscribe now at tim.blog/friday.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…
Want to hear another episode with Blake Mycoskie? Listen to our 2020 conversation in which we discussed the Hoffman Process, Blake’s experiences with plant medicine, conscious uncoupling, Madefor — his new business that helps people learn and sustain positive habits and practices that have the greatest impact on their lives, and much more.
#446: Blake Mycoskie — TOMS, The Hoffman Process, Conscious Uncoupling, and PsychedelicsSELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Blake Mycoskie:Website | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram
Blake Mycoskie — TOMS, The Hoffman Process, Conscious Uncoupling, and Psychedelics | The Tim Ferriss Show #446Start Something That Matters by Blake Mycoskie | AmazonTOMS ShoesTraining You to Thrive | MadeforButter Busters by Pam Mycoskie | AmazonWorld Changers Shaped Here | SMUIndiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark | Prime VideoStoicism Resources and Recommendations | Tim FerrissMeditations by Marcus Aurelius | AmazonWhat My Morning Journal Looks Like | Tim FerrissOne for One | SMU Daily CampusYellow Pages | WikipediaWit and Wisdom from Poor Richard’s Almanack by Benjamin Franklin | AmazonBlake & Paige | The Amazing Race WikiFormer ‘The Amazing Race’ Contestant Blake Mycoskie Announces All-Reality “Reality Central” Televsion Network | Reality TV WorldLosing My Virginity: How I Survived, Had Fun, and Made a Fortune Doing Business My Way by Richard Branson | AmazonDriver’s Ed DirectAn Ode to the Shirtless Abercrombie & Fitch Models | ElleHow I Did It: The TOMS Story by Blake Mycoskie | EntrepreneurSlumdog Millionaire | Prime VideoAmerican Rag CieTOMS Shoes’ Model Is Sell a Pair, Give a Pair Away | Los Angeles TimesThe Lowly Alpargata Steps Forward | The New York TimesCo-Founder Alejo Nitti Talks About the Beginnings of TOMS | YouTubeThe Hilarious Story of How TOMS Shoes Got Into Nordstrom | Inc.The 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Tim Ferriss | AmazonThích Nhất Hạnh – WikipediaThe Art of Power by Thich Nhat Hanh | AmazonPour Your Heart Into It: How Starbucks Built a Company One Cup at a Time by Howard Schultz | AmazonOnward: How Starbucks Fought for Its Life without Losing Its Soul by Howard Schultz and Joanne Gordon | AmazonPeace Is Every Step: The Path of Mindfulness in Everyday Life by Thich Nhat Hanh | AmazonLet My People Go Surfing: The Education of a Reluctant Businessman — Including 10 More Years of Business Unusual by Yvon Chouinard | AmazonSHOW NOTESNotes from the editor: Timestamps will be added shortly.
What is Butter Busters, and how did it help inspire Blake’s entrepreneurial vision at an early age? What backup career was Blake’s time at SMU preparing him for if his professional tennis aspirations didn’t work out? Blake’s favorite philosophers and their works. Blake details his journaling habit and how it started. The origin story of Blake’s first business on the SMU campus, and the sneaky ruse he borrowed from Ben Franklin to drum up customers. It turns out running a full-time business while trying to go to school full-time is hard. So what happened next? How did reality TV change Blake’s life and teach him a valuable, but costly lesson about business? What did Blake do to cope with the depression he experienced after this first big business failure, and how did this roll him into his next venture?The TOMS origin story: how it came about when Blake was trying to take a vacation from business. How did TOMS get its first burst of real publicity, and in what way did this quickly turn into a good news/bad news situation? Shoebags vs. shoeboxes from a retail standpoint. What is Blake’s greatest fear in business? What does failure look like to him? Books Blake can’t live without. If Blake lost everything today, what would he be most thankful for? Why the calendar is king in the Mycoskie household. What Blake’s billboard would say and parting thoughts. MORE GUEST QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW“Fear really was a motivator, and has been in many different chapters in TOMS. Not because I was afraid of failing as a business, but failing other humans is a much heavier burden to wear.”
— Blake Mycoskie
“The calendar is king.”
— Blake Mycoskie
“Carpe diem. That is the mantra that has served me so well. … If I do that, then I’m giving the most I can to what I’ve been given.“
— Blake Mycoskie
“A fortune can be made out of literally your kitchen and a typewriter.”
— Blake Mycoskie
“If there’s one thing that can help get your life on a more positive path, journaling is it.”
— Blake Mycoskie
“I think Indiana Jones is the best job.”
— Blake Mycoskie
November 30, 2021
Andrew Chen — Metaverse, Metrics, and Meerkats (#550)

“Between the early adopters and the early majority you have this chasm where all the nerds will love you but the mainstream market has no clue what it is that you do.”
— Andrew Chen
Andrew Chen (@andrewchen) is a general partner at Andreessen Horowitz, where he invests in consumer technology, including social, marketplace, entertainment, and gaming experiences. Today, Andrew serves on the boards of All Day Kitchens, Clubhouse, Envoy, Hipcamp, Maven, Reforge, Sandbox VR, Singularity 6, Sleeper, Snackpass, and Substack.
Andrew is a prolific writer and leading voice on mobile, metrics, and user growth. For the past decade, he’s covered the topic on AndrewChen.com. He is the author of The Cold Start Problem, a book exploring how new startups are launched. He is also a board member and instructor at Reforge, which offers selective, growth-focused programs for experienced professionals in marketing, product, data, and engineering.
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform. You can also watch the interview on YouTube.
Brought to you by 80,000 Hours free career advice for high impact and doing good in the world, Wealthfront automated investing, and Helix Sleep premium mattresses. More on all three below.
The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

This episode is brought to you by 80,000 Hours! You have roughly 80,000 hours in your career. That’s 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year for 40 years. They add up and are one of your biggest opportunities, if not the biggest opportunity, to make a positive impact on the world. Some of the best strategies, best research, and best tactical advice I’ve seen and heard come from 80,000 Hours, a nonprofit co-founded by Will MacAskill, an Oxford philosopher and a popular past guest on this podcast.
If you’re looking to make a big change to your direction, address pressing global problems from your current job, or if you’re just starting out or maybe starting a new chapter and not sure which path to pursue, 80,000 Hours can help. Join their free newsletter, and they’ll send you an in-depth guide for free that will help you identify which global problems are most pressing and where you can have the biggest impact personally. It will also help you get new ideas for high impact careers or directions that help tackle these issues.
This episode is brought to you by Wealthfront! Wealthfront pioneered the automated investing movement, sometimes referred to as ‘robo-advising,’ and they currently oversee $20 billion of assets for their clients. It takes about three minutes to sign up, and then Wealthfront will build you a globally diversified portfolio of ETFs based on your risk appetite and manage it for you at an incredibly low cost.
Smart investing should not feel like a rollercoaster ride. Let the professionals do the work for you. Go to Wealthfront.com/Tim and open a Wealthfront account today, and you’ll get your first $5,000 managed for free, for life. Wealthfront will automate your investments for the long term. Get started today at Wealthfront.com/Tim.
This episode is brought to you by Helix Sleep! Helix was selected as the #1 overall mattress of 2020 by GQ magazine, Wired, Apartment Therapy, and many others. With Helix, there’s a specific mattress to meet each and every body’s unique comfort needs. Just take their quiz—only two minutes to complete—that matches your body type and sleep preferences to the perfect mattress for you. They have a 10-year warranty, and you get to try it out for a hundred nights, risk free. They’ll even pick it up from you if you don’t love it. And now, to my dear listeners, Helix is offering up to 200 dollars off all mattress orders plus two free pillows at HelixSleep.com/Tim.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…
Want to hear an episode about what it takes to start and scale a podcast? Listen to my conversation with Chris Hutchins, in which we discussed how I built The Tim Ferriss Show to 700+ million downloads, advice for starting small and remaining sustainable, backup systems, finding useful technology at a reasonable price, the rewards of podcast monetization versus its costs, getting guests to trust the process, the key to becoming a better interviewer, understanding your audience, and much more.
#538: How I Built The Tim Ferriss Show to 700+ Million Downloads — An Immersive Explanation of All Aspects and Key Decisions (Featuring Chris Hutchins)SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Andrew Chen:The Cold Start Problem: How to Start and Scale Network Effects by Andrew Chen | AmazonSoftware Is Eating the World | Andreessen HorowitzReforgeMy Life in Advertising and Scientific Advertising by Claude C. Hopkins | AmazonConsumer Packaged Goods (CPG) | InvestopediaMichelin GuideMohr Davidow VenturesMainstream Customers by Geoffrey A. Moore | AmazonThe Lean Startup: How Today’s Entrepreneurs Use Continuous Innovation to Create Radically Successful Businesses by Eric Ries | AmazonThe Innovator’s Dilemma: When New Technologies Cause Great Firms to Fail by Clayton M. Christensen | AmazonDropboxHacker NewsBloggerGrowth Hacker is the New VP Marketing | Andrew ChenHow to Deal with FOMO in Your Life | Verywell MindNew Data Shows Losing 80% of Mobile Users Is Normal, and Why the Best Apps Do Better | Andrew ChenBusiness-to-Business (B2B) | InvestopediaViral TikTok Spikes Unsustainable | Andrew Chen, TwitterHow I Designed Distraction Out of My Phone | Fast CompanyVentures of the PayPal Mafia | FleximizeBillpoint | WikipediaWeb1, Web2, and Web3 with Their Differences | GeeksforGeeksThe Oral History of Tinder’s Alluring Right Swipe | WIREDThe Law of Shitty Clickthroughs | Andrew ChenThe Story of Uber | InvestopediaStar Wars Episode IV: A New Hope | Prime VideoLiDARs for Self-Driving Vehicles: A Technological Arms Race | Automotive WorldThe Coinbase Seed Round Pitch Deck by Brian Armstrong | MediumTake a Look at Uber’s First Pitch Deck from 2008 | VoxTwitch History: From Beginning to Now | Streamers PlaybookY CombinatorLeague of LegendsRemote Job and Startup Job Search | AngelList TalentBest Way for Artists and Creators to Get Sustainable Income and Connect with Fans | PatreonThe Home for Great Writing | SubstackAmerican Kids Would Much Rather Be Youtubers than Astronauts | Ars TechnicaPeople in Philippines Earn Cryptocurrency Playing NFT Video Game Axie Infinity | CNBCA Digital Nation | Axie InfinityDungeon Masters Guide by Gary Gygax | AmazonFiend Folio: Tome of Creatures Malevolent and Benign by Don Turnbull and Chris Baker | AmazonSign Up and Start Having Fun! | RobloxGrand Theft Auto | WikipediaVR Rhythm Game | Beat SaberCreate, Share, Play | VRChatHow Angry Birds Started and Why It Got So Successful | CleverismRiot GamesThe Evolution of Social Media: How Did It Begin and Where Could It Go Next? | Maryville UniversityWhat Is the Metaverse? | The New York TimesWorld of WarcraftWhy Did Facebook Become Meta? | The New York TimesReady Player One | Prime VideoEpic Games CEO Says Company Is “Not Touching” NFTs | HypebeastThe Creator of Ethereum Got into Crypto Because Blizzard Nerfed His Character | PC GamerUber Driver Strike: Gig Economy Workers Are Mad | VoxSaying Goodbye to Carousel and Mailbox | Dropbox BlogWhy Did Google Plus Fail as a Social Network? | Brainium’s BlogDo Things That Don’t Scale | Paul GrahamBrian Chesky | Masters of Scale with Reid HoffmanWhat Is Clubhouse? The Audio-Only Chat App Explained | PCMagMetcalfe’s Law is Wrong | IEEE SpectrumBeyond Metcalfe’s Law for Network Effects, and Towards a Better Model by Andrew Chen | a16z FutureMeerkat | National GeographicThe Lion King | Prime VideoQuantitative Ecology Lab | University of WashingtonSea Otter Cam | Monterey Bay AquariumCannery Row by John Steinbeck | AmazonThe Modern-Day Pacific Sardine Collapse: How to Prevent a Future Crisis | Oceana USAThe “Luckiest” Building in Silicon Valley | Today I Found Out22% Of US Adults Moved Due to COVID-19 or Know Someone Who Did | Pew Research CenterThe Coronavirus Turns Midtown Into a Ghost Town, Causing an Economic Crisis | The New York TimesBloom Institute of Technology (Formerly Lambda School)Why the Stock Market Went Up during the COVID-19 Pandemic and High Unemployment | VoxCommission-Free Stock Trading & Investing App | RobinhoodBuy NFTs and More on Ethereum | OpenSeaYC Demo Days for Everyone | StonksHorsley Bridge PartnersBringing Down the House: The Inside Story of Six M.I.T. Students Who Took Vegas for Millions by Ben Mezrich | AmazonThe Overlooked Levels of the Creator Economy | a16z FutureWhy Building Your Business on Facebook Is a Bad Idea | CIRA1,000 True Fans by Kevin Kelly | The TechniumNFTS Are Helping Artists Solve a Vital Problem | The GuardianThis Is Water: Some Thoughts, Delivered on a Significant Occasion, about Living a Compassionate Life by David Foster Wallace | AmazonSHOW NOTESHow did My Life in Advertising by Claude C. Hopkins (written around the turn of the last century) come to be such an influential book for Andrew, and why do its lessons hold up today? [06:37]Who is Geoffrey Moore, and what was it like for Andrew to share an office with him as a 25-year-old newcomer to Silicon Valley back in 2007? [11:38]Who is Sean Ellis? [13:57]What prompted Andrew to start writing, and how did it lead to his first meeting with Marc Andreessen? [16:51]How did Andrew adapt to the attention his writing was getting in the early days to build an even larger audience? [20:26]How long do Andrew’s pieces tend to be, and how does he ensure he’s expressing opinions that his readers will find compelling? [24:30]What does Andrew do to stay focused when he’s writing? [26:46]To what does the title of Andrew’s book The Cold Start Problem refer, and why did he write it? [28:36]Lessons learned from consulting during the early days of Uber. [37:30]An Andrew’s-eye-view of the Twitch origin story, and how the decision was made to focus on gaming. [43:20]How a truly innovative company can create the market that perpetuates its existence. [51:15]Who or what in the heck is a Roblox, and what does it signify for the future of gaming and related technologies? [55:15]What does Andrew think the much-hyped but mostly theoretical metaverse will look like in three to five years? [1:02:02]Decentralized warlocks, open-source ecosystems, and real-world upheavals driven by digital demands. [1:07:47]What questions does Andrew ask entrepreneurs in order to gauge how they think about growth? [1:12:30]How does Andrew suggest startups, companies, or people go about picking the right metrics? [1:16:45]Common mistakes Andrew sees founders making when they’re trying to improve a startup’s growth. [1:21:46]And now for something completely different: here’s the part of the interview where Andrew talks about meerkats and sardines. [1:26:14]The network effects of work in cities where people are choosing to live — and leave — these days. [1:31:32]The startup investment trend Andrew is following keenly, and what novices need to remember about distributing available resources to maximize their chances of coming out ahead. [1:33:58]Thoughts on the current climate of the creator economy: where I fit in, and where I see things headed with the seemingly inevitable mainstream acceptance of Web3, NFTs, and blockchain technologies. [1:43:49]What is Reforge? [1:55:53]Parting thoughts. [1:58:39]MORE ANDREW CHEN QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW“Between the early adopters and the early majority you have this chasm where all the nerds will love you but the mainstream market has no clue what it is that you do.”
— Andrew Chen
“I’m self-parenting. You know you have too low of an attention span when you have to embrace all of this tooling to manage your time.”
— Andrew Chen
“When I came to the Bay Area, that was one of my express goals: ‘I am going to meet all the PayPal people, and I’m going to try and figure out what it is that they know that I don’t.'”
— Andrew Chen
“How many of the privacy issues that people talk about and the targeting and all the stuff that’s been happening is really because we decided to go with banner ads instead of having people pay each other online?”
— Andrew Chen
“The nice part about working as a startup investor is we’re funding all these companies that will eventually announce their products in two or three years, and so I feel like I have a little glimpse of what it is that the founders want to do.”
— Andrew Chen
“This is just an incredible opportunity for anybody that wants to make a new virtual world, new game experience, or new game studio right now, because you can go and take all these ideas and try to combine them in new, fresh ways that sort of blend together economic game play with visual, classic game design in ways that the world has never seen.”
— Andrew Chen
Andrew Chen — Growth Secrets from Tinder, Uber, and Twitch; Exploring the Metaverse; the Future of Startup Investing; Games as the Next Social Networks; and How to Pick the Right Metrics (#550)

“Between the early adopters and the early majority you have this chasm where all the nerds will love you but the mainstream market has no clue what it is that you do.”
— Andrew Chen
Andrew Chen (@andrewchen) is a general partner at Andreessen Horowitz, where he invests in consumer technology, including social, marketplace, entertainment, and gaming experiences. Today, Andrew serves on the boards of All Day Kitchens, Clubhouse, Envoy, Hipcamp, Maven, Reforge, Sandbox VR, Singularity 6, Sleeper, Snackpass, and Substack.
Andrew is a prolific writer and leading voice on mobile, metrics, and user growth. For the past decade, he’s covered the topic on AndrewChen.com. He is the author of The Cold Start Problem, a book exploring how new startups are launched. He is also a board member and instructor at Reforge, which offers selective, growth-focused programs for experienced professionals in marketing, product, data, and engineering.
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

This episode is brought to you by 80,000 Hours! You have roughly 80,000 hours in your career. That’s 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year for 40 years. They add up and are one of your biggest opportunities, if not the biggest opportunity, to make a positive impact on the world. Some of the best strategies, best research, and best tactical advice I’ve seen and heard come from 80,000 Hours, a nonprofit co-founded by Will MacAskill, an Oxford philosopher and a popular past guest on this podcast.
If you’re looking to make a big change to your direction, address pressing global problems from your current job, or if you’re just starting out or maybe starting a new chapter and not sure which path to pursue, 80,000 Hours can help. Join their free newsletter, and they’ll send you an in-depth guide for free that will help you identify which global problems are most pressing and where you can have the biggest impact personally. It will also help you get new ideas for high impact careers or directions that help tackle these issues.
This episode is brought to you by Wealthfront! Wealthfront pioneered the automated investing movement, sometimes referred to as ‘robo-advising,’ and they currently oversee $20 billion of assets for their clients. It takes about three minutes to sign up, and then Wealthfront will build you a globally diversified portfolio of ETFs based on your risk appetite and manage it for you at an incredibly low cost.
Smart investing should not feel like a rollercoaster ride. Let the professionals do the work for you. Go to Wealthfront.com/Tim and open a Wealthfront account today, and you’ll get your first $5,000 managed for free, for life. Wealthfront will automate your investments for the long term. Get started today at Wealthfront.com/Tim.
This episode is brought to you by Helix Sleep! Helix was selected as the #1 overall mattress of 2020 by GQ magazine, Wired, Apartment Therapy, and many others. With Helix, there’s a specific mattress to meet each and every body’s unique comfort needs. Just take their quiz—only two minutes to complete—that matches your body type and sleep preferences to the perfect mattress for you. They have a 10-year warranty, and you get to try it out for a hundred nights, risk free. They’ll even pick it up from you if you don’t love it. And now, to my dear listeners, Helix is offering up to 200 dollars off all mattress orders plus two free pillows at HelixSleep.com/Tim.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…
Want to hear an episode about what it takes to start and scale a podcast? Listen to my conversation with Chris Hutchins, in which we discussed how I built The Tim Ferriss Show to 700+ million downloads, advice for starting small and remaining sustainable, backup systems, finding useful technology at a reasonable price, the rewards of podcast monetization versus its costs, getting guests to trust the process, the key to becoming a better interviewer, understanding your audience, and much more.
#538: How I Built The Tim Ferriss Show to 700+ Million Downloads — An Immersive Explanation of All Aspects and Key Decisions (Featuring Chris Hutchins)SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Andrew Chen:The Cold Start Problem: How to Start and Scale Network Effects by Andrew Chen | AmazonSoftware Is Eating the World | Andreessen HorowitzReforgeMy Life in Advertising and Scientific Advertising by Claude C. Hopkins | AmazonConsumer Packaged Goods (CPG) | InvestopediaMichelin GuideMohr Davidow VenturesMainstream Customers by Geoffrey A. Moore | AmazonThe Lean Startup: How Today’s Entrepreneurs Use Continuous Innovation to Create Radically Successful Businesses by Eric Ries | AmazonThe Innovator’s Dilemma: When New Technologies Cause Great Firms to Fail by Clayton M. Christensen | AmazonDropboxHacker NewsBloggerGrowth Hacker is the New VP Marketing | Andrew ChenHow to Deal with FOMO in Your Life | Verywell MindNew Data Shows Losing 80% of Mobile Users Is Normal, and Why the Best Apps Do Better | Andrew ChenBusiness-to-Business (B2B) | InvestopediaViral TikTok Spikes Unsustainable | Andrew Chen, TwitterHow I Designed Distraction Out of My Phone | Fast CompanyVentures of the PayPal Mafia | FleximizeBillpoint | WikipediaWeb1, Web2, and Web3 with Their Differences | GeeksforGeeksThe Oral History of Tinder’s Alluring Right Swipe | WIREDThe Law of Shitty Clickthroughs | Andrew ChenThe Story of Uber | InvestopediaStar Wars Episode IV: A New Hope | Prime VideoLiDARs for Self-Driving Vehicles: A Technological Arms Race | Automotive WorldThe Coinbase Seed Round Pitch Deck by Brian Armstrong | MediumTake a Look at Uber’s First Pitch Deck from 2008 | VoxTwitch History: From Beginning to Now | Streamers PlaybookY CombinatorLeague of LegendsRemote Job and Startup Job Search | AngelList TalentBest Way for Artists and Creators to Get Sustainable Income and Connect with Fans | PatreonThe Home for Great Writing | SubstackAmerican Kids Would Much Rather Be Youtubers than Astronauts | Ars TechnicaPeople in Philippines Earn Cryptocurrency Playing NFT Video Game Axie Infinity | CNBCA Digital Nation | Axie InfinityDungeon Masters Guide by Gary Gygax | AmazonFiend Folio: Tome of Creatures Malevolent and Benign by Don Turnbull and Chris Baker | AmazonSign Up and Start Having Fun! | RobloxGrand Theft Auto | WikipediaVR Rhythm Game | Beat SaberCreate, Share, Play | VRChatHow Angry Birds Started and Why It Got So Successful | CleverismRiot GamesThe Evolution of Social Media: How Did It Begin and Where Could It Go Next? | Maryville UniversityWhat Is the Metaverse? | The New York TimesWorld of WarcraftWhy Did Facebook Become Meta? | The New York TimesReady Player One | Prime VideoEpic Games CEO Says Company Is “Not Touching” NFTs | HypebeastThe Creator of Ethereum Got into Crypto Because Blizzard Nerfed His Character | PC GamerUber Driver Strike: Gig Economy Workers Are Mad | VoxSaying Goodbye to Carousel and Mailbox | Dropbox BlogWhy Did Google Plus Fail as a Social Network? | Brainium’s BlogDo Things That Don’t Scale | Paul GrahamBrian Chesky | Masters of Scale with Reid HoffmanWhat Is Clubhouse? The Audio-Only Chat App Explained | PCMagMetcalfe’s Law is Wrong | IEEE SpectrumBeyond Metcalfe’s Law for Network Effects, and Towards a Better Model by Andrew Chen | a16z FutureMeerkat | National GeographicThe Lion King | Prime VideoQuantitative Ecology Lab | University of WashingtonSea Otter Cam | Monterey Bay AquariumCannery Row by John Steinbeck | AmazonThe Modern-Day Pacific Sardine Collapse: How to Prevent a Future Crisis | Oceana USAThe “Luckiest” Building in Silicon Valley | Today I Found Out22% Of US Adults Moved Due to COVID-19 or Know Someone Who Did | Pew Research CenterThe Coronavirus Turns Midtown Into a Ghost Town, Causing an Economic Crisis | The New York TimesBloom Institute of Technology (Formerly Lambda School)Why the Stock Market Went Up during the COVID-19 Pandemic and High Unemployment | VoxCommission-Free Stock Trading & Investing App | RobinhoodBuy NFTs and More on Ethereum | OpenSeaYC Demo Days for Everyone | StonksHorsley Bridge PartnersBringing Down the House: The Inside Story of Six M.I.T. Students Who Took Vegas for Millions by Ben Mezrich | AmazonThe Overlooked Levels of the Creator Economy | a16z FutureWhy Building Your Business on Facebook Is a Bad Idea | CIRA1,000 True Fans by Kevin Kelly | The TechniumNFTS Are Helping Artists Solve a Vital Problem | The GuardianThis Is Water: Some Thoughts, Delivered on a Significant Occasion, about Living a Compassionate Life by David Foster Wallace | AmazonSHOW NOTESHow did My Life in Advertising by Claude C. Hopkins (written around the turn of the last century) come to be such an influential book for Andrew, and why do its lessons hold up today? [06:37]Who is Geoffrey Moore, and what was it like for Andrew to share an office with him as a 25-year-old newcomer to Silicon Valley back in 2007? [11:38]Who is Sean Ellis? [13:57]What prompted Andrew to start writing, and how did it lead to his first meeting with Marc Andreessen? [16:51]How did Andrew adapt to the attention his writing was getting in the early days to build an even larger audience? [20:26]How long do Andrew’s pieces tend to be, and how does he ensure he’s expressing opinions that his readers will find compelling? [24:30]What does Andrew do to stay focused when he’s writing? [26:46]To what does the title of Andrew’s book The Cold Start Problem refer, and why did he write it? [28:36]Lessons learned from consulting during the early days of Uber. [37:30]An Andrew’s-eye-view of the Twitch origin story, and how the decision was made to focus on gaming. [43:20]How a truly innovative company can create the market that perpetuates its existence. [51:15]Who or what in the heck is a Roblox, and what does it signify for the future of gaming and related technologies? [55:15]What does Andrew think the much-hyped but mostly theoretical metaverse will look like in three to five years? [1:02:02]Decentralized warlocks, open-source ecosystems, and real-world upheavals driven by digital demands. [1:07:47]What questions does Andrew ask entrepreneurs in order to gauge how they think about growth? [1:12:30]How does Andrew suggest startups, companies, or people go about picking the right metrics? [1:16:45]Common mistakes Andrew sees founders making when they’re trying to improve a startup’s growth. [1:21:46]And now for something completely different: here’s the part of the interview where Andrew talks about meerkats and sardines. [1:26:14]The network effects of work in cities where people are choosing to live — and leave — these days. [1:31:32]The startup investment trend Andrew is following keenly, and what novices need to remember about distributing available resources to maximize their chances of coming out ahead. [1:33:58]Thoughts on the current climate of the creator economy: where I fit in, and where I see things headed with the seemingly inevitable mainstream acceptance of Web3, NFTs, and blockchain technologies. [1:43:49]What is Reforge? [1:55:53]Parting thoughts. [1:58:39]MORE ANDREW CHEN QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW“Between the early adopters and the early majority you have this chasm where all the nerds will love you but the mainstream market has no clue what it is that you do.”
— Andrew Chen
“I’m self-parenting. You know you have too low of an attention span when you have to embrace all of this tooling to manage your time.”
— Andrew Chen
“When I came to the Bay Area, that was one of my express goals: ‘I am going to meet all the PayPal people, and I’m going to try and figure out what it is that they know that I don’t.'”
— Andrew Chen
“How many of the privacy issues that people talk about and the targeting and all the stuff that’s been happening is really because we decided to go with banner ads instead of having people pay each other online?”
— Andrew Chen
“The nice part about working as a startup investor is we’re funding all these companies that will eventually announce their products in two or three years, and so I feel like I have a little glimpse of what it is that the founders want to do.”
— Andrew Chen
“This is just an incredible opportunity for anybody that wants to make a new virtual world, new game experience, or new game studio right now, because you can go and take all these ideas and try to combine them in new, fresh ways that sort of blend together economic game play with visual, classic game design in ways that the world has never seen.”
— Andrew Chen
November 23, 2021
The Random Show — Biohacking, Tim’s COVID Experience, Holiday Gift Ideas, Favorite New Apps, Bad Science, Quarantine Delights, and a Small Dose of NFTs and DAOs (#549)

Technologist, serial entrepreneur, world-class investor, self-experimenter, and all-around wild and crazy guy Kevin Rose (@KevinRose) rejoins me for another episode of The Random Show.
In this one we discuss the recent KevKev and TimTim reunion in Marfa, good television for anyone passing time in quarantine, Kevin’s latest biohacking adventures, utility NFTs (including Kevin’s upcoming PROOF drop), donating cryptocurrency for psychedelic research, ketamine therapy, my COVID experience, holiday gifts, financing and budgeting apps, and much more.
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform. You can watch the conversation on YouTube here.
Brought to you by Tonal smart home gym, LinkedIn Jobs recruitment platform with 770M users, and Helix Sleep premium mattresses. More on all three below.

This episode is brought to you by Tonal! Tonal is the world’s most intelligent home gym and personal trainer. It is precision engineered and designed to be the most advanced strength studio on the market today. Tonal uses breakthrough technology—like adaptive digital weights and AI learning—together with the best experts in resistance training so you get stronger, faster. Every program is personalized to your body using AI, and smart features check your form in real time, just like a personal trainer.
Try Tonal , the world’s smartest home gym, for 30 days in your home, and if you don’t love it, you can return it for a full refund. Visit Tonal.com for $100 off their smart accessories when you use promo code TIM100 at checkout.
This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs. Whether you are looking to hire now for a critical role or thinking about needs that you may have in the future, LinkedIn Jobs can help. LinkedIn screens candidates for the hard and soft skills you’re looking for and puts your job in front of candidates looking for job opportunities that match what you have to offer.
Using LinkedIn’s active community of more than 770 million professionals worldwide, LinkedIn Jobs can help you find and hire the right person faster. When your business is ready to make that next hire, find the right person with LinkedIn Jobs. And now, you can post a job for free. Just visit LinkedIn.com/Tim.
This episode is brought to you by Helix Sleep! Helix was selected as the #1 overall mattress of 2020 by GQ magazine, Wired, Apartment Therapy, and many others. With Helix, there’s a specific mattress to meet each and every body’s unique comfort needs. Just take their quiz—only two minutes to complete—that matches your body type and sleep preferences to the perfect mattress for you. They have a 10-year warranty, and you get to try it out for a hundred nights, risk free. They’ll even pick it up from you if you don’t love it. And now, to my dear listeners, Helix is offering up to 200 dollars off all mattress orders plus two free pillows at HelixSleep.com/Tim.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…
Want to hear another Random Show? Listen to my most recent conversation with Kevin Rose in which we discussed the evolving war against elevated blood glucose, recent bad decisions, workouts for the aging, how to avoid getting swindled in the NFT Wild West, emergency preparedness, riding the emotional roller coaster of investment, perceptions of clean vs. “dirty” crypto, DeFi regulation, dollar-cost averaging, tips for better sleep, keeping stress in check, and much more.
#527: The Random Show — Life-Extension Misadventures, Blockchain/Crypto Investing, NFT Experiments, Dogecoin, Zen Buddhism, and Weathering Sharp ElbowsSELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Kevin Rose:Website | PROOF | Modern Finance | Instagram | Twitter
Visit Marfa, TexasWhy is Art Blocks in Marfa? by Druid | MediumArt Blocks – Generative NFT Art with Erick Snowfro | PROOFGenerative Art and NFTs | ARTnewsSXSW Conference & FestivalsThe Random Show – Drinking Urine, Exploring Japan, and Figuring Out Life | The Tim Ferriss Show #224Meet Sotol, Tequila’s Northern Cousin | Serious EatsThe Marfa Spirit Co.Mezcal Aquí Nomás | InstagramOaxaca | Visit MéxicoBillecart-Salmon Brut Rose, Champagne | Wine SearcherLALO TequilaLos Altos de Jalisco | WikipediaSuerte | East AustinTequila Casa DragonesThe Chinati FoundationThe Peter Attia Drive PodcastWhat Is Rapamycin? | New ScientistMy Life Extension Pilgrimage to Easter Island | The Tim Ferriss Show #193Dog Aging ProjectThe Random Show — Kevin Rose and Tim Ferriss Talk Knives, iPhone Apps, Flutes, and Dog Handling | The Tim Ferriss Show #87Once-Weekly Noninsulin | OzempicSaffron Was the Prozac of the Middle Ages | The AtlanticOLLY Hello Happy Gummy Worms | AmazonPYM Health Mood Chews | AmazonGamma Aminobutyric Acid: Uses and Side Effects of GABA Supplement | HealthlineL-Theanine: Dosage, Benefits, and Side Effects | Healthline7 Proven Health Benefits of Rhodiola Rosea | HealthlineTrainspotting | Prime VideoThe psychology of self-tracking — QuartzThe Psychology of Self-Tracking | Quartz60 Easy April Fools’ Pranks for Kids or Anyone | ParadeList of Unproven Methods against COVID-19 | WikipediaComedians in Cars Getting Coffee | NetflixThe Extreme Adventures of Super Dave | Prime VideoTed Lasso | Apple TV+Schitt’s Creek (Uncensored) | Prime VideoSarah Jessica Parker, Graham Norton Enter Wine NFT Market | Whiskey RaidersThe Growing Utility of NFTs | CoinDeskMembers’ Clubs | Soho HouseScreaming EagleHarlan EstateScreaming Eagle ‘The Flight – Second Flight’, Napa Valley | Wine SearcherSupremeYeezy Boost 700 | AdidasAir Jordan | NikeWhat is Web3? The Decentralized Internet of the Future Explained | Free Code CampThe Best Moments in Diggnation History | DiggnationCryptoPunks – The NFTs That Started It All. Their Origin Story and Future Plans | Modern FinanceFlamingo DAO – What You Should Know About Decentralized Autonomous Organizations With Priyanka Desai And Aaron Wright | Modern FinanceOpen Meta DAONeon DAOFriends With Benefits DAODilbert by Scott AdamsChris Dixon and Naval Ravikant — The Wonders of Web3, How to Pick the Right Hill to Climb, Finding the Right Amount of Crypto Regulation, Friends with Benefits, and the Untapped Potential of NFTs | The Tim Ferriss Show #542Platinum Partnership | Tony RobbinsThe Rink | Rockefeller CenterVeeFriends – Gary Vaynerchuk’s New NFT Project | Modern Finance 9Wham-O Slip N’ Slide Wave Rider Double | AmazonHasbro Connect 4 Game | AmazonHasbro Twister | AmazonThe Saisei Foundation Community Fund | EndaomentAccept Crypto Donations | The Giving BlockJapanese Meaning of Saisei | Nihongo MasterPsychedelics 101: Books, Documentaries, Podcasts, Science, and More | Tim FerrissVeterans Exploring Treatment Solutions | TwitterStrength in Numbers Gala to End Veteran Suicide | VETSMultidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS)MDMA for PTSD Clinical Trials | MAPSThe Obstacles to Decriminalizing Psychedelic Drugs Are Political, Not Legal, Say Experts | Harvard Law TodayFuture VenturesThe Ketamine Cure: Is This Unregulated Drug Safe to Use at Home? | The New York TimesPsychedelic Medicine is Here | MindbloomPredator | Prime Video“Together We Will Do Drugs.” | RedditIvermectin Won’t Treat Covid-19 but Demand for Drug Surges | The New York TimesSome Thoughts on Coronaviruses and Seatbelts | Tim Ferriss“After 18+ Months of Dodging…” | Tim Ferriss, InstagramSpectacular Scenes from Formula 1 Weekend’s Thrilling Return to Austin | CultureMap AustinCircuit of The Americas (COTA)Allergies in Austin | Greater Austin AllergyMonoclonal Antibody COVID-19 Infusion | CMSDrip Hydration Mobile IV TherapyHere’s How Austinites Think the City Failed during the Texas Freeze | KUT RadioCommon Antidepressant Slashes Risk of COVID Death, Study Says | NatureFluvoxamine | Drugs.comEnough with the Divisiveness | Smoky Mountain NewsShould I Mix and Match My COVID Booster with My Initial Vaccine? A Doctor Weighs In | NPRCOVID-19 Vaccines and Infertility: Fact or Fiction? | Women’s Health ResearchBad Science: Quacks, Hacks, and Big Pharma Flacks by Ben Goldacre | AmazonThe 4-Hour Body: An Uncommon Guide to Rapid Fat Loss, Incredible Sex, and Becoming Superhuman by Timothy Ferriss | AmazonStudying the Studies Archives | Peter AttiaGhostbusters | Prime VideoLEGO Ghostbusters ECTO-1 (10274) | AmazonLEGO Ideas Voltron (21311) | AmazonLEGO Porsche 911 (10295) | AmazonBailout Family – CPM-3V Grivory | Benchmade Knife CompanyKershaw Leek Serrated (1660ST) | AmazonCarter CutleryGeneration 3 | Oura RingKarst Stone Paper NotebooksMaui Nui VenisonThe Struggle to Contain, and Eat, the Invasive Deer Taking over Hawaii | Modern Farmer10 Gifts to Make Your Holidays Extra Fun, Relaxing, and Delicious | Tim FerrissThe World’s Most Modern Portfolio Tracker | KuberaSupercharge Your Finances with Insights You Won’t Get from Your Bank | CopilotFree Online Money Management | MintInvesting Is Easy When It’s Automated | WealthfrontGain Total Control of Your Money | YNABSHOW NOTESHow did generative art bring Kevin and me to Marfa, Texas recently, and when was the last time we really got to hang out? [05:59]What have we been drinking? [10:41]Kevin and his best friend Toaster’s latest forays into biohacking. [15:54]Saffron highs and the calming joy of Pym mood chews. [25:56]Bad ideas for conquering COVID and good TV for anyone passing time in convalescence or in need of psychological comfort. [31:14]On wine clubs in high demand, and how NFTs can be used for the purpose of membership allocation. [39:02]Kevin’s own utility NFT announcement, and why he’s devoting so much of his time to the NFT space these days. [45:51]DAO (decentralized autonomous organization) and Dilbert discourse. [49:53]Kevin applies his unique superpowers to how I might best make use of utility NFTs and the wide, wild world of Web3. [52:53]What’s with the adoption of .xyz domains by crypto nerds? [1:01:28]How my non-profit foundation has entered the crypto world, and thoughts on once-unthinkable strides in the mainstream acceptance — from both sides of the political aisle — of psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy. [1:02:42]Can at-home ketamine treatment work, and is it safe? [1:10:32]My own recent experience with the dreaded COVID: from precautions taken to treatments administered to lingering effects. [1:14:41]Thoughts on the vaccine’s effect on fertility, and a suggestion for anyone trying to make the right decisions around scientific unknowns. [1:43:23]Holiday gifts. [1:49:15]Kevin’s financing and budgeting tools. [1:56:10]Parting thoughts. [2:02:21]PEOPLE MENTIONEDPeter AttiaToaster Pino RoseDarya RoseMolly FerrissZak WilliamsRobin WilliamsJerry SeinfeldBob EinsteinLarry DavidSarah SilvermanGarry ShandlingSarah Jessica ParkerKanye WestMichael JordanScott AdamsChris DixonNaval RavikantTony RobbinsGary VaynerchukErick SnowfroRobbie HeegerZach BronsteinRick PerryRick DoblinRichard M. NixonNick NorrisSteve JurvetsonGenevieve JurvetsonArnold SchwarzeneggerCarl WeathersChris SaccaDylan BeynonKen OnionMurray CarterMatt WalkerAbraham LincolnScrooge McDuckRamit SethiMr. Money MustacheMEDICAL DISCLAIMER: I’m not a doctor, nor do I play one on the Internet. Speak with a medical professional before doing anything medical-related.
FINANCIAL DISCLAIMER:I am not an investment adviser. Nor is Kevin Rose. All opinions are mine alone. Or his. There are risks involved in placing any investment in securities or in Bitcoin or in cryptocurrencies or in anything. None of the information presented herein is intended to form the basis of any offer or recommendation or have any regard to the investment objectives, financial situation, or needs of any specific person, and that includes you, my dear listener or reader. Everything you’re going to hear is for informational entertainment purposes only.
November 18, 2021
The Lost Presentation That Launched The 4-Hour Workweek — “Secrets of Doing More with Less in a Digital World” from SXSW 2007 (#548)

Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is my job to deconstruct world-class performers to tease out the routines, habits, et cetera that you can apply to your own life.
This is a special episode, which features my very first speech at SXSW in March of 2007! I didn’t know that a recording existed, and it was a great surprise when Cal Newport, author of Deep Work and writer for The New Yorker sent it to me.
He used it as part of his research for a recent article that was published in The New Yorker titled “Revisiting The 4-Hour Workweek: How Tim Ferriss’s 2007 manifesto anticipated our current moment of professional upheaval.”
And the 2007 SXSW speech was really the event that put everything into high gear. Influential tech bloggers who had heard the SXSW talk wrote about The 4-Hour Workweek, which put it on the radar of bigger media outlets. Eventually, the book made it onto The New York Times Best Sellers list, where it stayed, more or less, for the next seven years. It’s been a wild ride.
One last thing: Hugh Forrest, if you’re listening, thank you again for giving me a shot way back in the day!
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Brought to you by “ 5-Bullet Friday ,” my very own email newsletter. More on it below.
The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

This episode is brought to you by “5-Bullet Friday,” my very own email newsletter that every Friday features five bullet points highlighting cool things I’ve found that week, including apps, books, documentaries, gadgets, albums, articles, TV shows, new hacks or tricks, and—of course—all sorts of weird stuff I’ve dug up from around the world.
It’s free, it’s always going to be free, and you can subscribe now at tim.blog/friday.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…
Want to hear my interview with Ed Zschau, the polymath professor who changed my life? Listen to our conversation, in which we discuss the role of optimism in entrepreneurship, meticulous attention to detail, why career planning is overrated, and much, much more.
#380: Ed Zschau — The Polymath Professor Who Changed My LifeSELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEThe 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Tim Ferriss | AmazonSXSW Conference & FestivalsTim Ferriss’ Four-Hour Work Week | WIREDRevisiting “The 4-Hour Workweek” by Cal Newport | The New YorkerDeep Work: Rules for Focused Success in a Distracted World by Cal Newport | AmazonThe Story of “How About Never” | The New YorkerThe 80/20 Principle: The Secret to Achieving More with Less by Richard Koch | AmazonParkinson’s Law: The ‘Law’ That Explains Why You Can’t Get Anything Done | BBCEmail Autoresponders That Work | Tim FerrissMail Your Child to Sri Lanka or Hire Indian Pimps: Extreme Personal Outsourcing (with A.J. Jacobs) | Tim FerrissModel the ‘Puppy-Dog Close’ Technique | Entrepreneur.comBlackBerryCannondale BikesArthur Jones, MedX, and Nautilus Exercise Principles | Arthur Jones LibraryWhat Can’t Be Measured | HBRPalm Z22 | WikipediaInternational Kendo Federation (FIK)Your Man In India (YMII)Brickwork IndiaSHOW NOTESHow do your decisions and priorities change if retirement will never be an option, and what do you do to avoid becoming a bottleneck when your business outscales you? Here’s why the pursuit of a 4-Hour Workweek isn’t for lazy people. [06:06]Definition: determining what it is that you want to create from a lifestyle standpoint and how much this costs. How Tim applied the 80/20 Rule (aka Pareto’s Principle) to reduce the time he had to spend managing his own business. [13:48]“It is a commonplace observation that work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion.” -Cyril Northcote Parkinson. How to ensure Parkinson’s Law isn’t governing your life. [19:01]Elimination: how you can focus on the crucial few instead of the trivial many, starting with the way you process email. [20:15]Automation: why you should outsource anything that occupies more time than you can afford to pay yourself. [24:14]Liberation: creating mobility and taking advantage of the time that you create. [27:14]The summary: the point of life is to enjoy it and the three currencies — time, income, and mobility — are vehicles to achieving it. [34:03]How do you fire 80 percent of your clients without building bad will within the community? [35:48]What happens when the people to whom I’ve outsourced the bulk of my work read The 4-Hour Workweek? [38:21]How do meetings work in a 4-Hour Workweek scenario? [39:12]How transparent should you be with your customers about how much of your workload is outsourced, and how do you justify increasing rates under these circumstances? [40:59]How do auto-responders fit into relationship management? [43:25]When eliminating, how do you figure out what’s important and what’s not important? [45:11]Tools I used (circa 2007) to leverage my time, and what I consider to be the most valuable skill set you can develop. [48:40]How does someone focus on what’s important in an era when distractions are so abundant? [50:27]How can an employee implement 4-Hour Workweek tactics and strategies when locked into a traditional 40-hour job structure? [53:28]The challenge. [57:40]PEOPLE MENTIONEDCal NewportHugh ForrestRobert ScobleRobert FrostEd ZschauA.J. JacobsDave BarryArthur JonesPeter DruckerThe Lost Presentation That Launched The 4-Hour Workweek — “Secrets of Doing More with Less in a Digital World” From SXSW 2007 (#548)

Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is my job to deconstruct world-class performers to tease out the routines, habits, et cetera that you can apply to your own life.
This is a special episode, which features my very first speech at SXSW in March of 2007! I didn’t know that a recording existed, and it was a great surprise when Cal Newport, author of Deep Work and writer for The New Yorker sent it to me.
He used it as part of his research for a recent article that was published in The New Yorker, which is titled “Revisiting The 4-Hour Workweek: How Tim Ferriss’s 2007 manifesto anticipated our current moment of professional upheaval.”
And the 2007 SXSW speech was really the event that put everything into high gear. Influential tech bloggers who had heard about the SXSW talk wrote about The 4-Hour Workweek, which put it on the radar of bigger media outlets. Eventually, the book made it onto The New York Times Best Sellers list, where it stayed, more or less, for the next seven years. It’s been a wild ride.
One last thing: Hugh Forrest, if you’re listening, thank you again for giving me a shot way back in the day!
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Brought to you by “ 5-Bullet Friday ,” my very own email newsletter. More on it below.

This episode is brought to you by “5-Bullet Friday,” my very own email newsletter, which every Friday features five bullet points highlighting cool things I’ve found that week, including apps, books, documentaries, gadgets, albums, articles, TV shows, new hacks or tricks, and—of course—all sorts of weird stuff I’ve dug up from around the world.
It’s free, it’s always going to be free, and you can subscribe now at tim.blog/friday.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…
Want to hear my interview with Ed Zschau, the polymath professor who changed my life? Listen to our conversation, in which we discuss the role of optimism in entrepreneurship, meticulous attention to detail, why career planning is overrated, and much, much more.
#380: Ed Zschau — The Polymath Professor Who Changed My LifeSELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEThe 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Tim Ferriss | AmazonSXSW Conference & FestivalsTim Ferriss’ Four-Hour Work Week | WIREDRevisiting “The 4-Hour Workweek” by Cal Newport | The New YorkerDeep Work: Rules for Focused Success in a Distracted World by Cal Newport | AmazonThe Story of “How About Never” | The New YorkerThe 80/20 Principle: The Secret to Achieving More with Less by Richard Koch | AmazonParkinson’s Law: The ‘Law’ That Explains Why You Can’t Get Anything Done | BBCEmail Autoresponders That Work | Tim FerrissMail Your Child to Sri Lanka or Hire Indian Pimps: Extreme Personal Outsourcing (with A.J. Jacobs) | Tim FerrissModel the ‘Puppy-Dog Close’ Technique | Entrepreneur.comBlackBerryCannondale BikesArthur Jones, MedX, and Nautilus Exercise Principles | Arthur Jones LibraryWhat Can’t Be Measured | HBRPalm Z22 | WikipediaInternational Kendo Federation (FIK)Your Man In India (YMII)Brickwork IndiaSHOW NOTESHow do your decisions and priorities change if retirement will never be an option, and what do you do to avoid becoming a bottleneck when your business outscales you? Here’s why the pursuit of a 4-Hour Workweek isn’t for lazy people. [06:06]Definition: determining what it is that you want to create from a lifestyle standpoint and how much this costs. How Tim applied the 80/20 Rule (aka Pareto’s Principle) to reduce the time he had to spend managing his own business. [13:48]“It is a commonplace observation that work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion.” -Cyril Northcote Parkinson. How to ensure Parkinson’s Law isn’t governing your life. [19:01]Elimination: how you can focus on the crucial few instead of the trivial many, starting with the way you process email. [20:15]Automation: why you should outsource anything that occupies more time than you can afford to pay yourself. [24:14]Liberation: creating mobility and taking advantage of the time that you create. [27:14]The summary: the point of life is to enjoy it and the three currencies — time, income, and mobility — are vehicles to achieving it. [34:03]How do you fire 80 percent of your clients without building bad will within the community? [35:48]What happens when the people to whom I’ve outsourced the bulk of my work read The 4-Hour Workweek? [38:21]How do meetings work in a 4-Hour Workweek scenario? [39:12]How transparent should you be with your customers about how much of your workload is outsourced, and how do you justify increasing rates under these circumstances? [40:59]How do auto-responders fit into relationship management? [43:25]When eliminating, how do you figure out what’s important and what’s not important? [45:11]Tools I used (circa 2007) to leverage my time, and what I consider to be the most valuable skill set you can develop. [48:40]How does someone focus on what’s important in an era when distractions are so abundant? [50:27]How can an employee implement 4-Hour Workweek tactics and strategies when locked into a traditional 40-hour job structure? [53:28]The challenge. [57:40]PEOPLE MENTIONEDCal NewportHugh ForrestRobert ScobleRobert FrostEd ZschauA.J. JacobsDave BarryArthur JonesPeter Drucker