Gail Simone's Blog, page 1180

differenzeartistiche:

gailsimone:

Yikes. That made me miss some characters bad. Quite a few of them haven't been used much for a good while, but some I still think of as active and vital.

I don't really have many answers about the suggestions people made. I know who is coming up in my books and a couple others, and I know some…

That is a nice post, Gail.

And what I'm about to write is not directed at you.

But I think what you wrote perfectly captures why I'm angry at DC right now. You're (as in DC, not you directly) focusing on new characters. You're erasing or benching long-time fan favorites because their presence requires a lot of backstory. You're changing and oversimplifying the characters you don't erase because you don't want the baggage of their past on your shoulders. And all because you're looking for new readers. I have read all the reboot books so far and I have not found ONE single thing that made me aware that you still want your old readers to give a damn about this universe and these characters, who are now mostly strangers to long-time readers like me. In fact Animal Man was my favorite book from last week because it was the only one in which something of the old Buddy Baker was still there.

But the rest? The idiotic 5 years timeline, Superman being a jerk, the JLI just forming thus erasing everything that happened in one of the very best DC books ever, just to name a few things (I won't even go into the Batgirl thing because I respect you too much)? All for the benefit of new readers. Characters who are older than most DC writers and editors are being erased because you want more money coming from a new, larger demographic. And in all that I wonder - do you still want my money? I won't even ask if you still CARE about me and the rest of your loyal fans because I'm not that naive, but I hope your company at least realizes that the old money is so tired of this.

Knowing that Connor Hawke, Donna Troy and Wally West just to name a few just won't be around anymore only because their stories are confusing for some new kid who is just picking up a comic book for the first time doesn't make me bittersweet. It makes me fucking angry. I was a kid who picked up one of your comic books for the first time too, not too long ago, and because I had faith in YOUR characters that I immediately fell in love with I had no problem whatsoever enjoying everything DC had to offer. I wish DC had the same faith in its characters that I have, or at least used to have.

If DC wants new readers and is doing everything it can to get them, fine. You have the right to try to make a buck just like everyone else. But if I have to read one more editorial by Dan DiDio or Jim Lee about how much you respect your old-time fans and how you're trying to make things pleasant for us too, I think I'll just never buy a DC book ever again. I don't like being lied to.

I appreciate it, and of course, obviously, I'm in that machine, so there's no reason to separate me from criticism of it. 

You were very candid, that's fine.  To be equally candid, I think most of us are also conflicted to varying degrees. A lot of the work I've devoted my life to for the past several years may no longer be in continuity, characters I love are not yet back in the universe I care the most about…it's not easy stuff.

Making a buck isn't my motivation. I have an exclusive contract, DC guarantees me a certain number of pages a month, and it's the same book rate regardless of which book I write. I don't think it's the main motivation for most creators that I've spoken with…there are other ways to write and make more money. I routinely get pitched to come work on this tv show or that one, and they always say the same thing, "come work here in tv and make some real money."

But we are a niche industry in a bad economy with a bruised distribution system in a world that reads fewer and fewer books, let alone periodicals.  It's not just DC, Marvel's in the same boat, having the same struggles. I often see people here talking about market share, but honestly, market share is barely even a consideration anymore.  If you look at the sales of comics for the past couple years, even on the critically beloved books, the readership was dwindling. And on the b- and c- list books, that's not sustainable.

Everyone always says, well, just tell good stories.  But the stories that are MOST loved here are not getting retailer or reader support in large numbers. Secret Six, Batgirl, Jonah Hex, Power Girl, on and on, and that's just at DC. It's the same thing at Marvel.

I've said this a lot, I was not an immediate convert to the relaunch and I still am conflicted about aspects of it. I had zero assignments for quite a while because I had problems with what was being offered to me. But I did come around when I started to see what the creative teams were coming up with. Now I'm optimistic, but I'm a bit guarded still about some of my favorites, hoping for the best, certainly.

I always think people of good conscience can disagree. But my feeling is that this move was a DESPERATELY needed shot in the arm to retailers. Almost every store I talk to says people are coming back who have been gone for years. That was not going to happen with the status quo that had been previously established. It's a question of, do we continue doing what is losing readers on our best books every single month, guaranteeing their cancellation eventually, or do you try something big?

So something needed to happen. Or the conversation we would be having in a couple years would be very different, you know?

To specifically address your question about long-time loyal readers, that's a tough one. Marketing people say marketing stuff and some of it has been a little groan-inducing.  But there IS also a sense of enthusiasm that's genuine. I've said a bunch of times that there will be mistakes and screw-ups, but that was true before the relaunch as well. I'm not in marketing. I don't even remember issue numbers. But I do like to hear retailers tell me it's their best week in eight years, or that they opened a ton of new pull lists, or that people are coming in off the street to buy the books.

I may not be answering your point directly…I might not have an answer that helps. So these are just my thoughts, not from DC and not from marketing.

I think the DCU is pretty elastic. We're talking about one of the largest shared universes in history. It's stretchable, and the characters in it are also stretchable. And it's got a lot of corners and alleys…characters benched now are not likely to be gone forever. And you know, things do get a little intimidating sometimes after 70 years, or even 10 years, to try to keep up with. I've always enjoyed different takes on characters—I think there's room for Batman Beyond and Batman: Year One and the Chris Nolan movies and the Brave and the Bold cartoon.

Actually, I do think I have a point for long-term readers, now that I think about it. It's the b- and c- level books. I've talked about this on the other thread, but the relaunch gives us a CHANCE to launch beloved cult characters that have rarely, if ever, been able to grab a toehold in the marketplace.  It's not DC or Marvel being mean…they launch books like HAWKEYE and MOCKINGBIRD and SECRET SIX with the best of intentions. But it is almost IMPOSSIBLE for a bunch of reasons to make those books a success.

Sales is a tripod. The publisher, the retailer, and the reader. The conventional wisdom here is that it's all the publisher, I routinely see things that just fly in the face of reality and common sense.  Marvel doesn't put out a book hoping it will fail and then canceling it to be mean. Those calls are hard to make and hard to hear.  And we never talk about retailer decision making and reader support, which are equally vital to a successful book.  We don't blame the readers for a book failing, but if that reader purchase support isn't there, the book will be cancelled.

The upside of this is that for the first time in a couple decades, characters that are beloved but not always a commercial smash are racked and treated almost identically to the icon books. It's already having an effect…some of these characters are gaining an audience that is nearly unimaginable in the previous status quo.  And I think that IS aimed at loyal readers to a large degree, characters like Deadman, Static, Firestorm (cross your fingers), Swamp Thing, Animal Man, on and on, those names have routinely meant almost nothing on the sales charts for the past couple decades. Now there's a chance to be reading a great Static book or Animal Man book.  That seems to me to be a real boon for long-term loyalists.

Not sure if that helps, but those are my quick thoughts on it. I am happier about some of these obscurities than the icon books. They always sell to a degree, the obscure stuff, not so much.

Hope that makes a little bit of sense, anyway!

Thanks for the post, I appreciate it, it's a fair argument to make. i just think it comes from a position that most everything was okay before the relaunch, and it really wasn't, at least not for any kind of viable growth.

Yikes. That made me miss some characters bad. Quite a few of them haven't been used much for a good while, but some I still think of as active and vital.

I don't really have many answers about the suggestions people made. I know who is coming up in my books and a couple others, and I know some are being held off on for a while.  In some cases, the characters are just plain in limbo until they can be reintroduced, some may not be seen for a while, but in at least a couple cases, they are being held back for a serious and significant relaunch—those are the ones I'm most hopeful about. I pitched one of my dream books and it turns out it's being held back because there's pretty good odds of it actually getting a major film deal. I can wait in that case.

There are a few that are going to be tough to bring back, just looking at the superficial logistics of it. Characters like Sin and Lian right off the bat. Characters that are relatively free of blood ties to the main characters will likely have an easier time returning (yes, I know, it's not been applied evenly or even fairly).  So I think it's more likely for Cass and Spoiler to come back than, say, Lian or Connor.

Hopefully J.T. is figuring out something. Some Tumblrs and Twitterers made me aware of Arrow Kids Day, and it really reminded me, just right in that single book, how many great, recent characters we are putting away for now. Suddenly I had this huge feeling of missing Connor, my favorite GA by far.

The suggestions people made were both fun to read and very bittersweet. Everyone has emotional favorites. I'm really hopeful there's a way to bring back Donna, in particular. I realize I'm rambling and this isn't exactly the most insightful post I've ever made.  I'm pretty sure a lot of these characters will be back. There may be a little establishing period, and we're also focusing a lot on new characters, but I do know a few beloved characters are scheduled to return. I'm hoping that when they do, they are given a treatment that they deserve, and is friendly to new readers.

Not very insightful, I don't know a lot more than you do about most of these names, unfortunately. Sorry.

Thanks for participating, it really reminded me of some of my favorite stories of the past decade.

gailsimone:

I know a lot of people are mad about the relaunch, which is understandable, but I have a question just for curiosity and reference.

If you could pick, say, five characters, that you would want to see return to the DCU in a prominent role, post-relaunch, who would you choose?

…

Mary Marvel, oh my god.  She is so ridiculously my favorite.

But you ship her with Guy Gardner?  That is surprising, somehow!

thenakedlibrarianontheroof:

gailsimone:

I know a lot of people are mad about the relaunch, which is understandable, but I have a question just for curiosity and reference.

If you could pick, say, five characters, that you would want to see return to the DCU in a prominent role,…

It would have been really nice to explore Catman's increasing mental illness. The idea was to contrast it with Ragdoll's DEcreasing illness. But alas, that book is gone for now. Rats.

gailsimone:

I know a lot of people are mad about the relaunch, which is understandable, but I have a question just for curiosity and reference.

If you could pick, say, five characters, that you would want to see return to the DCU in a prominent role, post-relaunch, who would you choose?

…

That might be my list right there, with Steph thrown in.
Connor, Cass, Steph, Barda, and Power Girl.  And Donna Troy.  And Ryan Choi. I can't pick five, I just decided.

I know a lot of people are mad about the relaunch, which is understandable, but I have a question just for curiosity and reference.

If you could pick, say, five characters, that you would want to see return to the DCU in a prominent role, post-relaunch, who would you choose?

It's okay if you can't come up with five, obviously. I'm just curious to see who people would like to see repositioned in a place of importance in the new DCU.

Thanks!

contextisfortheweak:

Uncoloured line art by Adam Hughes for the first two Batgirl covers.

Holy wow, I'd never seen those in black and white.

Adam Hughes, never had an art lesson, I'm told. That guy amazes me. WOW.

And you know, he is so amazing to work with, he wants the cover to be part of the  story. He wants to know the whole story before he does the cover, that's really a joy.

Thank you SO much for posting these.

dogunderwater:

iTunes that shit, basically. Take a look at critiques like this and change what's wrong (which has already been happening, at least at Marvel? somewhat at DC as well) (also stop optimizing for tablets). Fans want digital copies anyway — make it worthwhile to pay for them rather than pirate. Lose the nostalgia attached to the floppies and direct more into making TPBs viable sales markers. 

To compare to music, many people will pirate to sample and will then purchase concert tickets, albums, and merchandise. Figure out how to lowball the sample price, lure in those willing to pay, and don't box out those that aren't from giving you the money for the 'extras.'

Also, hire some SEO people because 'online dc comic subscription' does not immediately take me to a page where I can subscribe to digital comics, such as this page. :|

Of course maybe this is all going on and the numbers tell me I'm totally wrong. IDK. 

Okay, I promised I would talk about the marketing stuff that was raised here and I'm happy to do that (in my admittedly limited experience), but I'm having a hard time following the thread a little, so I'm going to just cut and paste the marketing questions you guys asked and try to start a new thread before my head explodes. I won't leave anyone out or avoid anything, just need to put it in a thread I can follow.

Everyone cool with that?

reavien:

Kay, goodish… I know I've only been involved with the comics for roughly a year (and now suddenly all of this is happening), so, I was hoping I didn't sound like that idiot who didn't know what she was talking about.

I think the only real issue I have about the author being on the threads—and this is personally, I can't speak for everyone else—is just…I dunno. It's like sitting in class critiquing someone's art work while they sit there and stare at you. For some people, that's easy, but…for me it's uncomfortable, especially when I know they've put time and effort into something. Especially if I respect the person (seeing you reblog this freaked me out as much as it was, ahaha). Then I feel like I have to force out some positives. …yeah. Those of us who are normally shier feel pressured into not speaking up.

I honestly don't go to a lot of forums for various reasons, so…never heard of CBR until today.

Sucks, and is really surprising. Most of the people I know and pay attention to seem to love both of those books. And not just love them, but—especially in Steph's case—be extremely defensive and passionate about them. 

No, you didn't sound like an idiot at ALL!

CBR is a bit of an exception, in that it's almost always had a larger number of creators participating than any other comics forum of any kind. There's an entire section of the board devoted to individual creators, where they interact with different levels of regularity.  So it's not exactly like Tumblr or most message boards, pros show up to chat on a very regular basis and the posters there are mostly used to it and welcome it.

That's not to say sometimes pros don't get defensive or obnoxious, it definitely happens, I've done it myself.  Like i said, I had a message board there for ten years. Sometimes a reader comes in to pick a fight, sometimes a writer or artist gets defensive and acts like a jerk. They have a LOT of mods and rules and stuff, which is I guess why they felt they had to have rules about not discussing Steph and Cass in that thread.

I get what you're saying about writers showing up on review threads. It might be kind of obnoxious.  There's no real set of guidelines to follow for this, you sort of learn as you go.  It's hard not to be defensive sometimes but I always end up regretting it and feeling like a  dork later, even if it's months later sometimes.Sometimes, it's actually harder to take a compliment than an insult, which seems counter-intuitive.

CBR and Twitter are a little different, people seem to seek each other out to chat about this stuff.  But the CBR posters are not starry-eyed, they're used to pros dropping by and art not exactly star-struck, as a rule. They still in general are pretty willing to say what they think—if you read the thread, there is some serious naysaying going on!  ;)

airawyn:

I don't really know much about comics marketing and sales, but I think DC fell down on marketing with the Stephanie Brown Batgirl. The first trade paperback was out of print for months – I tried to buy it as part of a wedding gift* for a friend back in October of last year and it was sold out both on Amazon and at my LCS. It wasn't rereleased until, I believe, the end of May this year. And I think the lack of a trade paperback is a serious hindrance. I was ready to buy it and give it to a friend who I think would have loved it and possibly started buying it monthly, and it simply wasn't available for a very long time. It's still not available digitally (although Red Robin is). I also remember reading an article praising the Batgirl trade early this year in a major, not-comics-centered publication (sorry for the vagueness, can't remember the details) and thinking it was great publicity and going to check Amazon to see if it was available and it wasn't. Marketing's useless if the product isn't available. I guess that DC focuses on the new issues, but a lot of people don't want to jump in without reading the back stuff.

Bryan Q. Miller's Batgirl was a fantastic book that was easy for new readers to jump into. It's also a great book for female readers. Not just because it has a non-cheesecake female lead, but because I think that Stephanie persevering despite past mistakes and despite everyone around her saying "No, you're not good enough, quit now" really resonates with a lot of women.

So you can say it didn't succeed because it didn't have an audience, but I don't see much evidence that DC tried to find one. I don't think that's due to deliberate sexism or some kind of conspiracy. I think it's more apathy and unintentional sexism added to the problems that the whole industry is dealing with. I think DC's new "day and date" digital plan is a huge step forward, but I wish Stephanie's book and Oracle's identity didn't have to be sacrificed for it to happen.

*We're quite geeky. They had dice at the plate of every guest for the wedding reception. Also, I ended up getting her Secret Six and Batwoman, so I suppose DC didn't lose too terribly on the deal. I really think she would have connected with Stephanie, though.

Ah!  Okay, about the tpbs. That is absolutely dead on, and to be honest, none of us really know what the formula is for tpb printings. It is absolutely confusing. We see books that no one really seemed to be drawn to get full-on hardcover takes, while books in higher demand wait forever for tpbs.  I've had it happen with both Birds of Prey AND Secret Six. My books tend to continue selling for a long long time, so keeping them in print has paid off well. But we still get gaps where one book in a series will not get reprinted when the tpb sells out—if you look for the out of print Secret Six tpbs, they are astronomically priced on Ebay and at stores. It's very confusing. And it's a separate department, the selection process is not really transparent.

The most famous example of this that I recall was Gotham Central, a book where if you missed an issue, you could really miss out on the entire plot. It was written by two superstar creators, it got amazing reviews, and it took like nine months or something after the stories were finished for TPBS to come out. I don't have an answer for that at all.

I can't say with any certain that tpb sales raise monthly sales of lower tier books, I think that's a hard case to make. I would strongly suspect there's no direct correlation. HOWEVER, tpb sales are figured into a book's profitability. Jonah Hex is a classic example, the book doesn't sell well in floppies in the direct market, but tpbs and the foreign market make that up. Wonder Woman KILLS in tpbs, often.

Going by the rest of your points, again, the sales numbers I showed were not from DC, they're from comics stores, and we see again and again that quality is not a guaranteed indicator of sales. The simple truth is, there's almost always a smaller market for the critically acclaimed stuff. Take the top 100 list of comics sales in any given month. The top ten stuff will almost always be crossovers and icons uniformly. And the books that are critical darlings sell a quarter of that.  Power Girl, Hawkeye and Mockingbird, Secret Six, Jonah Hex, Batgirl, on and on.  Believe me, it's as frustrating for us as it is for the readers of those books.

And it's not me saying the book didn't succeed because it didn't find an audience. It DID find an audience, it's just that it didn't get a big ENOUGH audience, same as Secret Six and lots of other books that people cared about a lot. And publishers have to look at trends, too, and if a book is losing audience every single issue…eventually someone is going to have to make the tough decision.  I don't want to defend it, because it sucks. 

In the actual publishing end of the business, there is no more concrete evidence of trying to make a book a success than which creative team is assigned. DC wanted the book to sell, to pop, and they gave the art to Dustin Nugyen. I can't explain enough what kind of message that is in our field. When you take a hot artist, who could work on any book he chose,  and you put him on a lower-selling book, you are trying to move the dial. You're trying to make something happen. It costs more and has a better chance of making a difference than house ads or POP displays and the like. It is the most sincere effort that can be made, really, to try to get a book to succeed. Believe me, there are few writers at DC who wouldn't kill to have Dustin draw their book, the guy is a genius and has his own fanbase. So that right there is a real-world indicator that someone in editorial was really trying.

Dustin could be drawing some huge project, and they had him on Batgirl, that is a VERY clear message that they believed the book had quality and wanted it to work.

As for marketing, that's a tougher question. I'm not a marketing person. I know the marketing people but I don't know how they divide the assets they have. But I'll say again, it's almost impossible to move a book up the charts in any lasting way with marketing alone. I can't even think of that many examples in the last decade. Eventually it's going to come down to demand, as passed on to the retailers. I hate all this talk of numbers, it's not what I got into comics for.

As I said before, changes were going to be made to Batgirl regardless of the relaunch. Oracle's identity, yeah, that's a loss, for sure.

And I can't disagree about unintentional sexism. I think it exists. However, Batgirl was edited by a female editor with pretty strong positions on women in comics. The bat-offices editorially are, I think, more females than males right now, three of my four bat-editors are female. They don't make ALL the decisions but the running of the books and the selection of the creative teams all goes through them. And truthfully, lots of books selling in Batgirl numbers were cancelled earlier, and WEREN'T given a star artist like Dustin to try to build the book back up.

It's always tempting to blame someone's intent, but the intent was to put out a great book and hope it succeeded. Bryan made a gem of a book. But the selling of a comic these days is a tripod; publisher, readers, and retailers, and the demand has to be there from all three to wok.

I hate to autopsy a great book like this, it's actually physically painful. But I always figure if someone asks a sincere question, it's worth an honest answer. Most of the stuff I said just now could be said about ANY recently canceled book at DC or Marvel that had a small but dedicated following, including Secret Six. It stings when a good book doesn't thrive.

I know it's not fun to hear right now, but that is the main reason I'm hoping the relaunch works, because for years, and this I DO blame on publishers, we have created this situation where readers are told that some books 'matter,' meaning they impact an icon or the universe.  New Avengers 'matters,' say, or Green Lantern Corps. So readers, not necessarily hardcore readers, feel they HAVE to get those books. And that has made it nearly impossible to make a successful launch of a non-icon book at both companies for about two decades now.  Which is why you can't look at Batgirl as a singular failure, but more as a victim of a mentality that makes success EXTREMELY difficult for b- and c- list characters.

And godDAMN that sounds like an amazing wedding.