Illustration via 99designs

” I don’t want a game to be in the spotlight. I want the players to be in the spotlight.”

— Elan Lee

Elan Lee (@elanlee) is the co-creator and chief executive officer of Exploding Kittens, a leading gaming and entertainment company. Under his leadership, Exploding Kittens has expanded its portfolio to nearly 30 different games with more than 20 million games sold in more than 50 countries since its founding in 2015.

Before founding Exploding Kittens, Lee was the chief design officer at Xbox Entertainment Studios, where he led the Interactive Entertainment Portfolio. Prior to that, he was the founder and chief creative officer of Fourth Wall Studios and co-founder of 42 Entertainment. He began his career at Microsoft Games Studios as a lead designer on the original Xbox.

Lee has won a Primetime Emmy for the series Dirty Work; Game Innovator of the Year for Exploding Kittens; a Peabody Award for the world’s first alternate reality game, The Beast; and an IndieCade Trailblazer Award for a distinguished career in interactive entertainment, among others.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform. You can watch the interview on YouTube here.

Brought to you by  Athletic Greens’s AG1  all-in-one nutritional supplement,  Helix Sleep  premium mattresses, and  Shopify  global commerce platform providing tools to start, grow, market, and manage a retail business. 

Listen onApple Podcasts[image error]Listen onSpotify[image error]Listen onOvercast#653: Elan Lee, Co-Creator of Exploding Kittens — How to Raise Millions on Kickstarter, Deconstructing Mega-Successes, Secrets of Game Design, The Power of Positive Constraints, The Delights of Craftsmanship, and The Art of Turning Fans into Superfans

This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time, “If you could use only one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually AG1 by Athletic Greens, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system. 

Right now, Athletic Greens is offering you their Vitamin D Liquid Formula free with your first subscription purchase—a vital nutrient for a strong immune system and strong bones. Visit AthleticGreens.com/Tim to claim this special offer today and receive the free Vitamin D Liquid Formula (and 5 free travel packs) with your first subscription purchase! That’s up to a one-year supply of Vitamin D as added value when you try their delicious and comprehensive all-in-one daily greens product.

This episode is brought to you by Helix Sleep! Helix was selected as the #1 overall mattress of 2020 by GQ magazine, Wired, Apartment Therapy, and many others. With Helix, there’s a specific mattress to meet each and every body’s unique comfort needs. Just take their quiz—only two minutes to complete—that matches your body type and sleep preferences to the perfect mattress for you. They have a 10-year warranty, and you get to try it out for a hundred nights, risk-free. They’ll even pick it up from you if you don’t love it. And now, Helix is offering up 20% off all mattress orders plus two free pillows at HelixSleep.com/Tim.

This episode is brought to you by Shopify! Shopify is one of my favorite platforms and one of my favorite companies. Shopify is designed for anyone to sell anywhere, giving entrepreneurs the resources once reserved for big business. In no time flat, you can have a great-looking online store that brings your ideas to life, and you can have the tools to manage your day-to-day and drive sales. No coding or design experience required.

Go to  shopify.com/Tim  to sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period. It’s a great deal for a great service, so I encourage you to check it out. Take your business to the next level today by visiting  shopify.com/Tim .

Would you like to hear another podcast episode that features an alternate reality game designer? Have a listen to my most recent conversation with Jane McGonigal in which we discussed video games to play for quieting your mind before bedtime, why Tetris is uniquely effective at treating PTSD, eerily prescient 2020 predictions from a 2010 simulation, politics and cryptocurrency, urgent optimism, trust warfare, emergency preparedness, and much more.

#579: Jane McGonigal — How She Predicted COVID in 2010, Becoming the Expert of Your Own Future, Trust Warfare, the 10-Year Winter, and How to Cultivate Optimism

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Elan Lee:

Twitter | LinkedIn

Connect with Exploding Kittens:

Website | Twitter | Instagram | TikTok | YouTube

Poetry for Neanderthals NSFW Edition | AmazonHow to Play Poetry for Neanderthals | Exploding KittensIs It Neander-TAL or Neander-THAL? | Discover MagazineElan Lee | Think Like a Game Designer with Justin Gary #20Hand-to-Hand Wombat | AmazonHow to Play Hand-to-Hand Wombat | Exploding KittensHand-To-Hand Wombat Developer Interview | Exploding KittensUNO | AmazonWhy the Core Gameplay Loop is Critical For Game Design | Game DeveloperORD CampAlien | Prime VideoJaws | Prime VideoJaws in Space: Powerful Pitching for Film and TV Screenwriters by Charles Harris | AmazonExploding Kittens NSFW Edition | AmazonHow to Play Exploding Kittens | Exploding KittensRussian Roulette | WikipediaExploding Kittens Is the Most-Backed Project of All Time | KickstarterAlternate Reality Game | WikipediaComics by Matthew Inman | The Oatmeal‘The Oatmeal’: An Eisner Surprise | CBRTacocat Spelled Backwards | AmazonHow to Play Tacocat Spelled Backwards | Exploding Kittens1,000 True Fans by Kevin Kelly | The TechniumAppetite For Destruction by Guns N’ Roses | Amazon MusicElan Lee: Exploding Kittens & The Key to Running a Successful Kickstarter | Talks at GoogleMoneyballing the Movies: How the Box Office Became a Sport | The RingerSecrets and Cost to Make iPhone Box Revealed | Process MintedProducer of Custom Dice, Poker Chips, Dominoes, and Game Sets and Parts Since 1906 | Game PartsThe Direct-to-Consumer (D2C) Model: A Complete Guide for 2023 | The Motley FoolConnect 4 | AmazonMonopoly | AmazonIron Chef | WikipediaWhat It Truly Means to Be a Manga Artist | The RiftApostrophe Games Blank Playing Cards | AmazonArnold Schwarzenegger’s Real Workout Plan | Steel SupplementsThe World’s Greatest Roleplaying Game | Dungeons & DragonsAD&D Player’s Handbook by Gary Gygax | AmazonAD&D Dungeon Masters Guide by Gary Gygax | AmazonStranger Things | NetflixChess | AmazonBackgammon | AmazonShogi | AmazonGo | AmazonPokémon GOCards Against Humanity | AmazonWhat Do You Meme? | AmazonJoking Hazard | AmazonApples to Apples | AmazonDominion: 2nd Edition | AmazonPokémon Assorted Cards | AmazonMagic: The Gathering 2021 Arena Starter Kit | AmazonThrow Throw Burrito | AmazonHow to Play Throw Throw Burrito Original Edition | Exploding KittensSET | AmazonCatan Base Game | AmazonSettlers of Catan Is One of the Best Family Board Games | PlaytonicBattleTech: A Game of Armored Combat | AmazonCrimson Skies | WikipediaBattleTech Center (1992) | Discovery Channel Beyond 2000Xbox Games | XboxIndustrial Light & MagicStar Wars: The Phantom Menace | Prime VideoJar Jar Binks Was Nearly a Practical Suit and a CG Head | Befores & AftersHalo: Combat Evolved for Xbox | Amazonedoc Laundry Interview | The Guardianedoc Laundry | Shane SmallHey! What’s That On Your Shirt? | Wired2024 Starts Now | Rock the VoteA.I. Artificial Intelligence | Prime VideoThe Beast, A.I. Transmedia Experience | The Peabody AwardsThe Beast (Game) | WikipediaCandy Land | AmazonPixar Animation StudiosEd Catmull, President of Pixar, on Steve Jobs, Stories, and Lessons Learned | The Tim Ferriss Show #22Russia Prohibited and Restricted Items | FedEx Cross BorderExploding Kittens: Interview with Game Designer Elan Lee by Meagan J. Meehan | MediumTCG Invests in Companies That Define Culture | The Chernin GroupMike Judge’s Beavis and Butt-Head | Prime VideoKing of the Hill | HuluThe Office | Prime VideoOffice Space | Hulu‘Exploding Kittens’ Game and Animated Show Coming to Netflix | Netflix TudumExploding Kittens Official Game Trailer | NetflixFood Community, Recipes, Kitchen‌ & Home Products, Cooking Contests | Food52Your Link to the Food Chain | MeatEaterSteven Rinella on Hunting (and Why You Should Care), Reconnecting with Nature, Favorite Trips, and More | The Tim Ferriss Show #470HodinkeeBarstool SportsRooster TeethScopelyHello SunshineSupport | Exploding KittensSHOW NOTES[06:00] Poetry For Neanderthals and collaborating with creative cohorts.[16:41] Kitty Test Pilots and core gameplay loops.[22:21] Crowdfunding, alternate reality games, and internet archaeology.[25:54] Matthew Inman and The Oatmeal millions.[32:18] The perils of operating faster than the speed of Gmail.[34:06] Converting casual fans into superfans.[34:51] What not to do when your Kickstarter goes better than expected.[36:51] The budget of production needs to fit the fun.[43:01] Does size matter?[44:44] From direct-to-consumer sales to being featured in big box stores.[47:07] Building a game from scratch quickly.[52:26] Guiding principles.[56:37] Foundational game recommendations for beginners.[1:05:10] Is Settlers of Catan the game you think it is?[1:07:35] Lessons learned from game design veteran Jordan Weisman.[1:08:50] If you built Jar Jar Binks’ neck, they practically let you run the place.[1:11:38] If you can’t rock the vote, then clothe the vote.[1:15:35] Other practical Jordanisms.[1:16:55] Steven Spielberg and The Beast.[1:23:19] Hate playing Candy Land with your kids? Design new games with them.[1:28:02] Growing Exploding Kittens from a game into a company.[1:32:56] International shipping nightmares.[1:36:13] Why an open-door policy had to be shut.[1:38:27] Employees and their roles.[1:41:50] Milestones.[1:43:06] When big asks get big results.[1:47:18] Investor expectations.[1:52:15] What kind of retirement does someone who makes fun for a living envision?[1:56:07] Dance partners, algorithm defiance, and other parting thoughts.MORE ELAN LEE QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“When I was growing up, the biggest frustration I had with games was, first and foremost, the instructions. I don’t have the patience to even read 20 minutes, let alone the seven hours to get into those crazy games. And so I really wanted to make games that 10-year-old me would really get a kick out of.”

— Elan Lee

“A game should be beautiful. You should look at a game and smile. It should be a source of joy. These things should be dopamine engines, and part of that is you want to hold the thing and show it to all your friends.”

— Elan Lee

” I don’t want a game to be in the spotlight. I want the players to be in the spotlight.”

— Elan Lee

“I once took a week-long skydiving course, and at the end of it, I asked the instructor, ‘Do you ever get bored of this?’ And he said, ‘Do you ever get bored of having sex?’ And I thought, that’s exactly it. That’s how I feel about games. That’s how I feel about this job. It’s not a thing with an expiration. It’s a little dopamine factory for me and the people who get to have these experiences. I don’t know how you get bored of that. That’s just eternal.”

— Elan Lee

“I only care about one question. In fact, we do all these play tests, we don’t even give out surveys anymore. There’s only one question we ask, which is, ‘When you finish playing the game, did you want to play again?’ And a game is done when 100 percent of the people say ‘Yes.'”

— Elan Lee

PEOPLE MENTIONEDJustin GaryMatthew InmanBrian S. SpenceJordan WeismanBatmanArnold SchwarzeneggerJar Jar BinksGeorge W. BushJohn AdamsThomas JeffersonMichael JordanSteven SpielbergSean StewartStanley KubrickEddie MurphyLord VoldemortPeter CherninMike JudgeGreg DanielsSteven RinellaKevin RoseReese WitherspoonJesse JacobsPenn JilletteTeller

The post Elan Lee, Co-Creator of Exploding Kittens — How to Raise Millions on Kickstarter, Deconstructing Mega-Successes, Secrets of Game Design, The Power of Positive Constraints, The Delights of Craftsmanship, and The Art of Turning Fans into Superfans (#653) appeared first on The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss.