I enjoyed reading the latest Penric story, though for some reason the title had me thinking it would be about an ox going on an adventure. Instead, it was focused on Penric’s kids figuring out what vocations they would pursue. It kind of reminded me of “Knife Children” in the way it was focused on the next generation.
Overall, it is a fun addition to the series.

Erratum: page 87, dawn of day after, Otta asks “how was Des was able…”

And I had forgotten how abusive you can be to your characters. And that spot, above, is where I am right now in the story, so there might be more errata.

Edit: I thought I had found a misplaced comma, but I didn’t want to stop reading and didn’t mark the place, and now I can’t find it.

A satisfying story, thank you. Lots of possible branches for additional ones.

First read through impressions: Very satisfying story! I loved it! Also very inspiring. It made me start wondering and imagining all the possible next steps and far futures for these characters. All the characters are so realistic It is easy to feel like the story is just a brief window view into their busy world that keeps on churning whether there is a story window or not.

Spoiler Alert........
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That last line!! It made me immediately want to read it all through again. Is he hiding how injured he really was, or did his injury remind him anew that no one is immortal and each day and each person, no matter how loved, is only temporary? I haven't had time yet for a 2nd read through to really soak in all the details. It is so rich not just with information, but things that really make you stop and think deeply that I know I will need several read throughs at a minimum.

That last line really hit me though. A young relative of mine was kindly picking up breakfast for all his co-workers earlier this year when his car was hit by a speeding red-light runner and he was killed instantly. The speed of the goring in this story, how everything is fine and then suddenly everything can change completely, reminded me of that day.

I'm glad Penric was able to survive, otherwise it would have felt like art was imitating life too closely. But I can't help but wonder if there isn't quite a bit of foreshadowing to some possible future set tale. Previously, with Des's healing care appearing to keep him young, I had the impression he was likely to outlive a lot of folks including his wife. But after this story, and particularly that last line, I wonder if some extraordinary circumstance is more likely to taken him out sooner, perhaps even the injury he is already healing from. I want to re-read it all and see which direction it really takes, perhaps my impression will change. Currently I think it is just that he realizes with new immediacy how time is precious and temporary. Particularly as his children are growing up and beginning to create their own separate lives. The empty nest hasn't happened but the foreboding ripples of the empty nest impact are already beginning to wash over him.

Other thoughts (too many to list!) I think this had some great quotes that jumped out at me even with just the first read through. The entire section around "Theology is more the study of people than the gods, in truth..." for instance. Wonderful topic for a book club deep dive discussion.

Also "We won't survive long in the world by scorning our advantages." In my youth, it really took me too long to figure this one out. The sooner you get it, the better.

And, what has always been a personal philosophy for me and was very enjoyable to find so clearly noted, "Most anyone you meet will harbor at least some stories that can teach you something..." I have always thought of it as "everyone knows something you don't, and you always know something the other person doesn't" Of course, it might not be anything world shaking or relevant, or needful, but you never know what you don't know.

I loved Wyn. He reminded me of my 9 yr old son's best friend L. who is also 9. L. I could absolutely imagine doing all the things Wyn does in this story. Like Wyn L. is very high energy and bright and independent and thoughtful. He doesn't always get things right, but he tries. He is a great friend to my special needs son.

Rina reminded me a lot of my daughter of similar age as well. So I feel like the actions and capacities of the kids were right on par for their ages and development. Which was really refreshing, since it seems like often kids get written like adults just labeled as children.

Poor Ashy, I wonder how his owner took the news? He seemed rather attached.

I loved that we got a glimpse of Ikos again. He reminds me of several people I know and love. Which is just yet another testament to how real and well-rounded all the characters are, main or minor.

This story was a wonderful to read. I wrote a review on Apple but Apple isn't showing any reviews for some reason, perhaps that falls under the oddities of Apple. I look forward to reading it all again and again!

I just read the sample on Kindle (though I'm holding off on buying the book until I finish one of the books I'm currently reading, because it's way overdue, and if I have a new Penric in my hands, I won't be able to resist reading it immediately!).
I love that Rina and Otta are both POV characters! They're adorable! Also, poor Rina, wanting a demon of her own. I wonder if she'll get an ox-demon in this book? Probably not, I guess. Three demons in one family might be too much!

I loved this. I've been hoping for years that we'd get to read about Penric taking his family to visit the Cantons -- I want to see Madame Owl's reaction to seeing him in that context, and I want to see his siblings' reaction to what their little brother has become.

One question: if sorcerers can't heal one enough, because one demons' presence acts as a barrier to another's magic, how could Penric have been so seriously wounded by an inexperienced sorcerer in Penric's Mission?

David wrote: "I loved this. I've been hoping for years that we'd get to read about Penric taking his family to visit the Cantons -- I want to see Madame Owl's reaction to seeing him in that context, and I want t..."

I am sure it would be due to the difference between uphill and downhill magic. Healing is uphill but Penric was injured by downhill magic in "Mission". Also it was a very surprise blow, unanticipated by Pen or Des, because it was a killing blow that would cost the sorcerer his demon. Pen survived thanks to Des's skills though. Another thought is that Des was already healing Pen as fast as possible and "help" from an inexperienced child might have caused more trouble than good, and so he could also have been making an excuse to discourage her from helping without Otta/Atto feeling guilty about it.

I can't wait to read this! But -- I cannot yet find it on Kobo!

Why isn't this available on other digital platforms besides Amazon and BN and Apple?

Likewise, what about Bookshop.

I really prefer to ONLY buy (license) ebooks from sources like Kobo or Bookshop. At least I can download my own copies on these platforms.

I just finished reading the new novella. What a lovely read! It's fun to see Penric with his kids, and for them to think about their futures, even though they're still quite young. Very exciting adventure! Yes, fun to have chapters from the girls' points of view, and how they interact as sisters.

Jon wrote: "I can't wait to read this! But -- I cannot yet find it on Kobo!

Why isn't this available on other digital platforms besides Amazon and BN and Apple?

Likewise, what about Bookshop.

I really prefe..."


Kobo is coming -- not sure if the delay is Us or Them, and can't find out till tomorrow. But I will certainly check.

Ta, L.

I really loved it. Especially satisfying to have follow up on all the children and especially that there's a new one. Pen and Nikys are the best parents.

At 68% she'd being doing

At 91% which mean it had struck home

this line: “They’re all… squirting away. In all directions. All the children. They’re all escaping, and it’s much too soon."

Poignant.

Lois wrote: "Jon wrote: "I can't wait to read this! But -- I cannot yet find it on Kobo!

Why isn't this available on other digital platforms besides Amazon and BN and Apple?

Likewise, what about Bookshop.

I ..."


It has been submitted to Kobo; any delay is Them not Us, and out of my and my agent's hands, alas. Such a delay is not at all unusual -- in the early days it used to take B&N nearly a month, back before better automation. If it doesn't show up on its own in another day or two, Inquiries will be Made.

Ta, L.

I am working on my first re-read (2nd read) of this story. What an impact. At the point, about half way, when the big shocking thing happens, the extreem injury to Penric and the steps Desdemona has to take in her attempts to save his life, on my first reading, I stopped and had to decide if I was going to stop completely, skip to the end to get a spoiler to help me figure out if I was going to WANT to read on, or to read on and trust Lois to find a way through that would work for me. I had the same response in one other Penric/Desdemona tale, in Missions when we learned that Adelius had been blinded. In both cases I felt like I had been hit in the stomach, rather stunned, or the wind knocked out of me. Of course, I knew from her other works that bad things can happen to good people in her books. But in both of these, a sudden change in tone took me by suprise.

In the end, I loved the story, and I feel I will love it more and more each time I read (or listen, once the audiobook is available).

Jerri wrote: "I am working on my first re-read (2nd read) of this story. What an impact. At the point, about half way, when the big shocking thing happens, the extreem injury to Penric and the steps Desdemona ha..."

When I'm doing a relisten I have to zip through the blinding part

Talli said (about Penric's Mission) "When I'm doing a relisten I have to zip through the blinding part"

I tend to do that too. And I just realised, the blinding actually happens off page, we just hear and then see the results after, this actually happens so we see it, and through the eyes of Pen's daughters. I forget which one, or if it is both.

On a different point, it was good to hear that Roz has become a boring book keeper! I feel sure that Pen is proud of that win.

Ox is now up on Kobo, yay! Worldwide, it appears.

A question still hanging is what is happening with some of my Spectrum titles on Apple Books international; they were reported missing recently. Has anyone else (non-USA) had issues with this, and what and where were they? (The US Apple store seems to be fine.)

Ta, Lois.

Jerri wrote: "Talli said (about Penric's Mission) "When I'm doing a relisten I have to zip through the blinding part"

I tend to do that too. And I just realised, the blinding actually happens off page, we just ..."


Roz is pretty happy with it, too!

Ta, L.

Impertinent guess: somebody received too many questions along the lines of "How does something as obviously wrong as the Quadrene heresy even exist?"

Typo: Dobro twice instead of Dubro

Grabbed the book immediately once I saw it'd been posted on Amazon!

Notes: I hope the girls got the reward for the two wolves that were killed. It's usual for the local authorities to offer rewards (in my town, circa 1932, it was $5.00 a pelt/two ears). that could be a fine start on their hope chest!

I presume the Ox drover recovered the horns, hooves and hide from his Ox, it wouldn't be much for the loss of such a valuable animal, but it would help.

Shame Iroki didn't stop to see the family at home, he cold have given a blessing to the new baby. It would be a politically correct think to do so see the Archduke and other officials... But I don't think he'd care for that, much.

Penric is gathering around him and interesting collection of Sorcerers. This put the town on the map, theologically speaking, for a major boost to the prestige of the Princedom.

I wish I'd been a fly on the wall when Kittio told Mama Alixtra what had happened to him.... (Maybe not, I suspect insects don't last long in that household...)

Good read!

Thanks for another engaging story!

I felt so bad for poor Ashy. :( Worse than I did for Pen, truth be told (I wasn't in any doubt that Pen would survive the story!). It was self-defence on Des's part, but Ashy was very much a victim of circumstances, and until then he'd been established as a sweet-natured / sympathetic creature.

Peter wrote: "Thanks for another engaging story!

I felt so bad for poor Ashy. :( Worse than I did for Pen, truth be told (I wasn't in any doubt that Pen would survive the story!). It was self-defence on Des's p..."


Yeah, I felt sorry for Ashy, too. It took a couple of emails to artist Ron to get across that though the ox was demonized, it wasn't Evil. (Part of why it's now portrayed with glowing blue eyes and not glowing red eyes as per the first draft.) But Ashy's sad fate was integral to the Plot.

But hey, I didn't kill the dog...!

Ta, L.

Thank you for saving Zarre, I did see his death as an option that was on the table, perhaps not directly, but just a heart attack from the exertion? It was fun to see Kittio and his pet again, and interesting to learn how much he didn't know/remember about his mother's past. Reminded me of what Miles and Greggor didn't know about their parents!

I admit, one of the biggest suprises was when I learned that Pen hadn't told his wife at least the basics of his encounter with the bandits on his book collecting trip. And that apparently Des didn't either. As Des said/implied long before, in Mira's Last Dance, keeping important things secret from your closest companion isn't usually a good idea. I admit that it was then countered by it not being necessary to expose the very worst details.

I really liked the way that each of the three young people to whom Pen was mentor found a new path toward their future in three very different ways. Kittio also, although he seems to have had his pathway pushed in his direction!

And I love the way the ending of the book leaves several options open for future tales/adventures! With Wyn and co to Cedonia or some other bridge building location and possible meet-ups with the military brother and possible other cousins, carefully not mentioned yet, but also not denied! With Rina and others back toward the Cantons and more about the Shamans, or with Otta/Atto and another deep look into the medical side of Sorcery.

Jerri wrote: "Thank you for saving Zarre, I did see his death as an option that was on the table, perhaps not directly, but just a heart attack from the exertion? It was fun to see Kittio and his pet again, and ..."

I completely agree with all your comments. I was glad the dog survived too. There were a lot of different ways things might have gone which kept me guessing as a reader and I loved that. As for Pen not telling his wife about the bandit adventure, I was surprised by that too. But I think it was related to her pregnancy and his desire to be sure she was as relaxed and unworried as possible. I thankfully have never experienced the loss of a child, whether born or unborn, but i have known many friends and family who have and the impacts can be like silent tsunamis. Maybe now that the child has been born he will get around to telling her all about it.

another typo: 86% "she'd once gained her of mother's tongue" - swap her and of

Jerri wrote: "And I love the way the ending of the book leaves several options open for future tales/adventures! With Wyn and co to Cedonia or some other bridge building location and possible meet-ups with the m..."
After Rina's pitch, the title popped into my head: Kin Jareds' Journey to the Weald (and Back). All sorts of possible plot bunnies, which I won't list because LMB is justifiably paranoid about fans' story ideas. Although she outlined this possibility, so I'd say the title is more restating Lois's notion than making up one myself.
That final line. Pen is recognizing anew the uncertanty and fragility of life, following his very narrow escape.

One hopes Des has a future opportunity to relate just how she and Learned Rutchia "learnerd the hard way" to dodge dangerous objects with superhuman speed.
Told to ride safely back, Wyn says, "With Iroki! He'll be fun." (page 36, Kindle edition). Iroki strikes me as more taciturn and plain-spoken that as a "fun" conversationalist. But then, I am not 9 years old, and I've not read Wyn and Iroki's off-stage dialogs and interactions, like fishing lessions. Yet. Anyway, could Wyn have meant, "It'll be fun!"?

Before Lois opened the "Spoiler" link I opined that twice (in the Pen & Des series), the White God has allowed an unspoiled/inexperienced demon to stay with a young/inexperienced rider, and if it happened again in TAODO, I would suspect a trend, as with Emperor Gregor's habitual, "Let's see what happens" in the Vorkoverse.
Well, in my reading of TAODO, it does happen again. So I'm coming to think The Bastard is developing a curiosity of how these inexperienced/unspoiled demon-rider pairings will develop/evolve in the future, and possibly encouraging same.
This doesn't crop up in the earlier WO5G trilogy because, as LMB as noted, they take place far in time and distance from the Pen & Des series. And, of course, because she wrote them before she even conceived of Pen & Des.

Sandy wrote: "Since it seems like often kids get written like adults just labeled as children.."
Now, why am I thinking of Charles Schultz's Peanuts comic strip?

"Papa, you don't count. You are everything." I rolled over.
They do have a high bar to clear with such accomplished parents, don't they.

Possible typo. Pen, reflecting on Wyn's not too adventurous journey to collect Irokil: "He didn't demand fire wyrms on top." (Kindle ed, p. 110.) Should this not be "ice wyrms?" My poor memory says this is the first time "fire wyrms" appears in the Pen & Des series and the entire WO5G cannon.
Speaking of ice wyrms, Pen's recalling his childhood yearnings to find same (in an earlier novella) reminds me, in a far-off way, of Bilbo Baggins's encounter with a treasure-hoarding dragon during his unexpected travels. Careful what you wish for, Penric.

Richard wrote: "Possible typo. Pen, reflecting on Wyn's not too adventurous journey to collect Irokil: "He didn't demand fire wyrms on top." (Kindle ed, p. 110.) Should this not be "ice wyrms?" My poor memory says..."

No, fire wyrms is intended. Both equally legendary in this world.

It was originally "didn't demand dragons atop", which is more euphonious, but I decided not to have dragons in this culture.

Neither fire nor ice wyrms fly, I don't think.

Ta, L.

Loved this, thank you as always LMB. You are one of my must-buy authors!

location - page 28 of 139 "Nikys's other brother had dubbed Des his demon-in-law..."

This sentence really threw me until I realized it was referring to Adelis, and I have already read all of the other Penric and Des offerings. Possibly I was reading too quickly, but there wasn't much reference to Adelis before this and for a while I thought the brother referred to was Ikos.

I wondered if it would be more clear by adding Adelis' name. Or perhaps the demon-in-law joke was left off entirely, since it wasn't really pursued any further.

Those children really are growing quickly. Loved the glimpses of Roz, and Alixtra, and the deeper look at Kittio, Xarre and Ikos

I shall be happy to continue to read (and re-read) anything you produce!

I want to say that I caught and appreciated several references to Adelis, including when one of the girls, I think Rina, was speculating on the fact that no one had considered Wyn or any other child following his footsteps into a military career. Nice to keep being gently reminded of his existence, so if future tales ever head his way we are prepared.

Actually a lot of little references to past stories, including, I believe a small hint that Dubro/Maska have passed on and Reed (I think that is how his name is spelled) is now a Physician Sorcerer.

Ooh, Ox is up to #32 in the Kindle store sales rankings this morning. (July 19.) I would have been happy just to see it tap the top 100.

Since their rankings change hourly, with the lifespan of mayflies, this is something to be enjoyed in the moment.

A title can, for a little while, catch a free feedback loop with a good ranking, as it makes the book pop up on more internal lists and cross-recs.

Amazon is not all (though it certainly tries to be) but it's a reasonable and available proxy for a snapshot of the sales health of one's story.

Ta, L.

Jerri wrote: "I want to say that I caught and appreciated several references to Adelis, including when one of the girls, I think Rina, was speculating on the fact that no one had considered Wyn or any other chil..."

I left the current fate of Dubro and Maska vague, but if they haven't passed on/been passed along yet, it won't be much longer.

Ta, L.

First time, long time. This is my favorite series, it made me re-set my old password for goodreads to get notifications.

On continuing re-reads, what is striking to me is the absence of the White. He felt almost deliberately off-stage. All Five of Them.

The gods being parsimonious, was it for some reason necessary for Penric to be away when Mona was born? Did the Bastard bestow a demon on Kittio and send Tolga in Penrics place for a reason?

Patrick wrote: "First time, long time. This is my favorite series, it made me re-set my old password for goodreads to get notifications.

On continuing re-reads, what is striking to me is the absence of the White...."


As the old saying goes, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. The gods are not stirring the pot ALL the time.

Dramatic reasons maybe re: Mona, not theological ones.

The White One was there for Kittio and Iroki, but we've done similar scenes enough times, I didn't think we needed an on-stage repeat.

Ta, L.

Richard said: "LMB is justifiably paranoid about fans' story ideas"

True, but she often asks for title suggestions, so I'll get in the first ones for the next story:

The Sorcerers'. There and Back Again.

or:

The Sorcerers' Journey.

Thanks again, O Goddess!

Finished (I'm a slow reader generally and double slow on Penric books).
I am very much inclined to shout at Lois "HOW COULD YOU!!!" but know this is not how it works. Joining the others who are grateful that Xarre managed to stay atop of his game.
Caught all the important messages, references, etc. Much the richer for it.
I thought Rina would be the sensible one who decides to have her own hands to herself only but of course not - she will venture the farthest. Remains to see if Wyn will succeed in his engineering endeavour or rather not, these people are catching demons like common colds.
White oxen are very much something like deluxe edition of Bastard's more common animals or possibly symbols, not to mention wolves and vultures. So was the whole story including Mona a deluge of early Christmas presents (so to speak) for Penric? All of his children living and prospering is no small feat even for a sorcerer. Heading for sainthood much? Once Des is gone...
Is there an author who will finally find a way to defeat death?

Is there a way to make the Demonic Ox available to the library ebook service Overdrive? I have my own copy, but it was libraries that hooked me on SF, so I'd like for today's young readers to have access! Alas, in response to my suggestion, they replied "We have tried to acquire your suggestion, but unfortunately, Overdrive does not carry it. Not all digital materials are made available to libraries."
Thank you for another great book!

If other Penric tales are on Overdrive/Library 2 Go/Libby, it may be that the Demonic Ox is just too new, it takes time for things to move through the system. I don't remember about the Penric tales in specific, but I do know that some of LMB's works are available on library eBook lending platforms. And, what is available to users does also depend on the library.

MJS wrote: "Is there a way to make the Demonic Ox available to the library ebook service Overdrive? I have my own copy, but it was libraries that hooked me on SF, so I'd like for today's young readers to have ..."

We only put a few of our Spectrum indie titles up on Overdrive, by way of experiment. It proved to be an enormous and aggravating hassle for my ebook wrangler, and paid very little; certainly not enough to recompense her efforts. The titles we did put up are still available, but not every library obtains every, or indeed any, e-title of mine.

Title were Falling Free, Shards of Honor, "Penric's Demon", and The Warrior's Apprentice. Which seemed a pretty good Bujold starter pack. If your library does not have these on its Overdrive, you could ask that they be added.

HarperCollins, which has rights to the Chalion trio and the Sharing Knife tetralogy, does it own library e-placements. Not under my control, but it's possible your library may be able to get them through their usual channels.

Ta, L.

Thank you! And very sorry to hear about the hassles. I'll see what can be done on this end.

Jerri wrote: “And I love the way the ending of the book leaves several options open for future tales/adventures!”

This hadn’t occurred to me, but you’re right, the way the children branch off in different directions gives scope for a variety of further stories. Perhaps that was the intention… I hope so.

Just read it and I loved it! Very interesting to know that Desdemona has been ascended several times, when Penric is in Peril! I guess she was teasing when she said she'd give the body back if Penric behaves, because she knows as well as Penric the consequences of remaining ascended?
I now want to reread the entire adventures of Penric, to better catch all the little references!
"And then there was that hideous morning on the hill above Martensbridge. That cost the life of an elk and a landslide, for all you don’t remember that part, being passed out from blood loss. " Have to figure out when this took place.
"But, yes, this was not the first time Des had ascended without his permission. If to his benefit. Even at Martensbridge, he’d had to concede that. Eventually."
I guess this was subtle in previous novellas, as I had wondered about ascension since Desdemona knows she can't keep that up forever.

Well, read it twice on my holiday. It's nice to see characters develop as they get older. I can't help but feel a sort of inverse of Princess Joen going on, with all these demons gathering around Penric.

These are the typos I noticed, taken from my UK Kindle version, though they've probably all been reported by now.

87/139 62% “how was Des was able to kill Ashy" - remove second "was".

95/139 68% "all over Vilnoc, she’d being doing the same" - change "being" to "be".

104/139 75% "followed by half-a-dozen burly workman lugging" - change "workman" to "workmen".

129/139 93% "Rina and Otto, though staying out of the debate" - change "Otto" to "Otta".