Boxall's 1001 Books You Must Read Before You Die discussion

It's time!

I'm almost done. I'll be back soon. So far I like it. Partly because I grew up in the suburbs of Detroit in the same time period as the main character.

This one is worth the trouble.

40 pages more to go - then I'm ready for the discussion. I really liked this one. 4 or 5 stars for me, depending on the ending.

Yes I am reading it. I have 150 pages left to go. It's a big book for me! lol. I am really enjoying it though. I was very sceptical before starting it but I am enjoying the story and the tone of voice. My version of the book as reader group discussion questions in the back - some of which are quite interesting to reflect on.

I read Middlesex a few years ago and loved it! I really wanted to re-read it for this discussion, but I just have too many on the pile right now... looking forward to the discussion.

Read this one last year and thought it was great! Looking forward to other opinions.

color me giddy the actual discussion hasn't started yet; just finished book 3 and hopefully will be all done with this tomorrow or friday.

after wading through 'the satanic verses', i've just been too worn out of highbrow lit to deal with anything other than sorceresses and vampires for the past couple of months. i'm back in for this one, though, and so far it's well worth it. this book totally cracks me up - there's numerous laugh-out-loud moments, though it's most definitely not a comedy. i think it's the way he weaves little details into a very complex whole that's fascinating me. the words make very vivid images: courtship via clarinet, 12 year old girls riding bikes into war, spring crocuses...

ive read before but a definate 5 pointer for me, be interesting to see what you guys think

I started my review of this book with the following quote from it: "Sex is biological. Gender is cultural."
I think this is one of the most important themes in the book - how much of our gender identity is biological and how much is cultural?
Calliope/Cal is raised as a girl her entire childhood - and she still decides to live the rest of her life as a boy/male. I find this entire gender issue very interesting - especially because I have a young daughter.
Some time ago I saw a documentary about how we treat young boys and girls differently (plays differently with them, give them different toys etc) and if you dress a girl like a boy and let somebody take care of her, they will treat her like a boy - and from a very young age, she will not like it - because she is already accustomed to a certain way of play.
Therefore, in some ways I found it strange that Calliope/Cal decides to become a boy - especially since she didn't particularly like being with men. But she never felt quite like the other girls and hid all the time behind the hair - it apparently just made sense to her when she found out and gave her the identity she had been looking for ...
What do you guys think?

Interesting... the idea of gender being cultural vs. biological. I agree that boys and girls are treated differently, but despite Calliope's having been treated like a girl for most of her life, she didn't feel like a girl. She was more comfortable with a male identity, even though she didn't feel comfortable around the male sex. Even more interesting... let's say Cal wasn't a hermaphrodite, but, without question, a biological girl. Would she have had the same confusing feelings, or was biology to blame? I often ponder this when I hear debates about homosexuality...

I don't think Calliope ever felt uncomfortable as a girl. At least, that didn't come across to me as I read. She sounded like any other confused teenager who didn't understand what was happening to her body. I think any girl goes through that period. And even her feelings for "The Object" didn't make her think she was more male than female. But when she found out the biological truth it made sense to her. Still, it wasn't like she could switch easily to living as a boy. It took time.

Melissa, i'm very much in agreement - uncomfortable as a *girl* maybe not, uncomfortable as a *human being* very much so. everyone experiences that alienating confusion around puberty, cal's just happened to be enormously magnified since s/he has such a singular experience.

as far as the nature vs nurture debate goes, i adore how this book reflects so much the times it's about. it traces through the turn of the century biology = everything, right on past the wacky 60s social conditioning = everything, and into our modern messy concept that complex things like "gender identity" are not solely attributable to either one. the former two, oversimplified as they are, are easily explained concepts. the latter takes an entire novel to get across...

It's been a while since I read the book, but, yes, Calliope was indeed 'uncomfortable' in general. I really want to read this book again very soon. Didn't you just love it? If not, why? I had a few quips with it, which I'll share later, don't want to spoil anyone's enjoyment.

I thought it was great, and I got a couple of my coworkers to read it, too. They also love it. Better than The Virgin Suicides, IMHO. I'm a librarian, and I suggested this book for the library's book club because it is one that never sounded very appealing to me based on the dust jacket description even though it is so acclaimed. Unfortunately, I've heard from a couple people in the club (we don't discuss it until next month) that they don't want to read it because it sounds like a sensational story about a genetic anomaly. Honestly, I think that's why I always avoided it. Since I've finished the book, I've done some one-on-one remediation to encourage more people to read it. Because it's really more of a family saga. I'd say more than half the book is about everything but Cal's anatomy.

Melissa wrote: "I thought it was great, and I got a couple of my coworkers to read it, too. They also love it. Better than The Virgin Suicides, IMHO. I'm a librarian, and I suggested this book for the library's bo..."

I agree. It is so much more than a story about a hermaphrodite. It is a family saga with a rich history spanning multiple generations -my favorite- much like East of Eden and The Mists of Avalon, just to name a couple off the top of my head.

Did anyone see a Dateline (or some show like it, I can't remember) about children born the wrong sex? At least, that's what the children and parents claimed. It was really interesting, there were 2-year-olds that said that they were supposed to be the opposite sex, a little boy tried to cut off his genitals because they weren't supposed to be there. In some cases, the parents helped them begin the sex change process before they started school. Those children would probably disagree with the 'gender is cultural' statement. Not quite the same situation as Calliope, but like those children, she didn't feel like she was supposed to. I understand that all people go through a period when they feel strange physically, but I'm guessing there is more to it than that for Calliope.

I am reading this book right now, and so far I am loving it. Although I feel that it lingers a bit too long on various parts, but other than that, its really good. On page 153 so far! :D

Exactly Kristi - that is one of the important questions. But regarding that Dateline show - how can one know that these parents wasn't hoping for a little girl and maybe without knowing treated the boy in a way so he felt like it was wrong being a boy? I find it fascinating how our gender roles are created - especially because I type this with my 7 months old daughter on my lap and would like her to have a broader understanding of what it means being a girl besides being a princess...!
So I thought this was a very interesting qustion the author raised in this book.

Kristi wrote: "Did anyone see a Dateline (or some show like it, I can't remember) about children born the wrong sex? At least, that's what the children and parents claimed. It was really interesting, there were 2..."

I don't know why, but for some reason that reminds me of another "condition" I read about recently in a mystery novel of all things, of people who desire to be disabled in some way, believe they are MEANT to be disabled, to the point of wanting a limb amputated, or purposely blinding themselves, etc. Apparently it's a very real phenomenon that I'd never heard of before. I can see the debate being similar for what you're describing...and the same with your argument, Christina, about how much "nurture" plays a part; i.e., the parent WANTED a boy but got a girl, and then treats her like a boy? Very, very complex the human mind and development!

I do love a good Bikdungsroman a la David Copperfield.
This book chronicles 3 generations of family saga, from a tiny village in Greece to their emigration to America. One of the elements that I really enjoyed about this novel is Eugenides wears many historical events and people into his story, so one follows the family through the fire of Smyrna, Henry Ford's five dollar work day, the Great Depression etc. it creates an added layer of interest for the story to weave around events that are familiar to the reader.

The story also has elements of Greek mythology and also explores the pursuit of the American Dream and inter sexuality and the idea of gender - ah, the full meaning of its title has just hit me =)

Anyway, it is such a good blend of fantasy, history and mythology with Eugenides usual good story telling and wit