Rothfussians discussion

What does anyone think of Jax as a lover to Lyra and that if he can't have her, no one can?

I think it could fit. Jax traps Lyra. Lanre goes nuts. Jax is locked up.

I was thinking the same, possibly with lyra being the cause of the war, possibly representing the moon. We've seen with stories about kvothe in the inn how stories\facts get twisted through time as people try to romanticise the story or make it more interesting.

Said it before i'll say it again, when kvothe speaks of the chtaeh he keeps mentioning the story of the commoner saving the princess, falling in love but she's promised to someone else and thus a war ensues. I think that story is very significant. Typical with PR it could mean a hundred different things.

Not saying that it is, but jealous\jilted lover? Did something stupid\regretable in a rage.

I really dont agree with the idea.

1. Lyra loved Lanre so much that she brought him back from the dead, she was so miserable when he died everyone felt sorrow in their hearts. Doesnt really fit with the concept of a love triangle. If she had some other lover, she could have just left him dead. As we know, using magic has it's consequences and I'm sure bringing someone back from the dead has a lot of them, so why risk it if she's got someone else on the side? That makes no sense.

2. We know that in the folk story, Jax literally steals the moons name and traps her between worlds basically, nothing ever suggests Lyra has any correlation to that. (If you disagree, please post some examples) In the story of the Creation War, we know that Iax caused the war by pulling the moon into fae and thus causing it to travel between worlds and that Lyra was a main contributor to the fight against that and thus against Iax.

3. When did Iax/Jax trap Lyra? She was certainly fighting at the battle of Drossen Tor, which suggest she wasnt trapped at all. Considering her ability to call Lanre back from the dead, that would also suggest she was able to use all her power.


I could see the possiblity that Jax might be in love with Lyra, but I just dont see the return on that. Not to mention, why would literally thousands of people care to die for one person? To me, its pretty clear that the moon is the moon and theirs no real serious twist to that, in this specific case.

I'm with amber on this one. Well said

Again I'm not saying it is but is a possibility.

1. Out of guilt or duty. Fantasy is littered with love versus duty, a woman bethroed but loves someone else. Kvothes chtaeh story example.

2. I just don't believe the moon literally was taken, its a gut feeling. I believe the moon is a symbol of something, what it is, god knows. Over time we see how stories warp/change, look at kvothes stories in the way stone. For example in our history look at gemmills take on Helen of troy and the Trojan horse versus the legend.

3. As for trapped perhaps jax brought her to maybe even made the fae for lyra, look what I did baby. The victor writes history so she was trapped she did not go there. Perhaps he kidnapped her.

I could possibly buy into the kidnapping if the book hadn't explained about Lanre and Lyra fighting a war that was started, before they were born, by Iax, who was locked behing the doors of stone by the time Lyra got sick.

1. Okay, I could buy that, but if Lyra is betrothed to Jax/Iax, why is she allowed to fight against him? So you're saying Lyra is a highborn Lady that cant choose for herself who to marry, but she can fight in a war and not only fight in it, but against the person she's to marry? Considering most betrothals are for political ALLIANCES that doesnt fit the story at all, and is pretty reaching.

2. I think if you really think that you should try and build a plausible theory of how it would fit, otherwise you should abandon the idea. Personally, from my reading I think it's pretty clear, in this situation (Not that the moon couldnt symbolically mean something in other situations of the story) the moon is the moon. Yes, stories throughout the Four Corners are skewed, but I think from the account of Skarpi, Hespe, and Felurian we have enough back up to suggest, YES the literal moon was stolen by a person named Iax, and was done so through the use of shaping, a now seemingly forgotten (or possibly forbidden) magic. I saw this whole moon thing as a way of introducing that into the story.

3. Iax didnt create the fae all on his lonesome, all the Shapers of the world created it, then they all got to create a star for the sky, but Iax wanted to be the awesomest so he stole the moon. The fae was built by shapers to escape the knowers, who they thought were annoying basically. They didnt build it because Iax had the hots for anyone.

I'm sorry, I just dont think any of that fits still. If Lyra is trapped or kidnapped (as a representation of the moon) that still doesnt answer how she's able to fight in the war and also freely use her abilities.

the speculation to fact ratio is lookin' pretty bad.

There's also a bit of song Kvothe's parents sing to each other that could tie into this theory.

"In evening when the sun is setting fast,
I'll watch you from high above
The time for your return is long since past
But mine is ever-faithful love.

In the evening when the light is dying
My feet are at last homeward turning
The wind is through the willows sighing
Please keep the hearthfire burning."

Think of this song's origin. Where did it come from?
My original thought was Jax or Lanre to the moon/Lyra and Lyra/moon to Jax or Lanre.

Also, could these verses be pieces of the song Kvothe's father was working on? Remember, Kvothe's father told Ben his song would have the reasons behind the Chandrian's doings because he thought he knew them.

Considering Arliden was very specific about not even singing his song in front of Kvothe, I doubt this is the song they were working on. He only agreed to sing a small portion of the song to his troupe after he'd been writing it over a year.
I dont think Kvothe's mother would be the sort to just start singing a song thats clearly been kept secret when she wasnt a lone, and knew she wasnt.

As far the origin of the song I guess you could hypothosize one or the other wrote the song for Lyra, but honestly, the theory has no real back up but speculation from what I can see.

Amber wrote: "Considering Arliden was very specific about not even singing his song in front of Kvothe, I doubt this is the song they were working on. He only agreed to sing a small portion of the song to his t..."

Kvothe overheard the song

Gavin wrote: "Amber wrote: "Considering Arliden was very specific about not even singing his song in front of Kvothe, I doubt this is the song they were working on. He only agreed to sing a small portion of the..."

Only the first part.

Gavin wrote: "Amber wrote: "Considering Arliden was very specific about not even singing his song in front of Kvothe, I doubt this is the song they were working on. He only agreed to sing a small portion of the..."

Yeah, right after his mother told him to go get a needle and thread.

I'm pretty sure she knew the wagon wasnt sound proof.

Amber wrote: "Gavin wrote: "Amber wrote: "Considering Arliden was very specific about not even singing his song in front of Kvothe, I doubt this is the song they were working on. He only agreed to sing a small ..."

Ah I see, I missed something earlier in the thread. That is interesting, I'm surprised I missed the significance of that song. It really does seem to tie into the story of Lanre.

The song that Gavin quoted above was a song that Kvothe says his parents used to sing for/with each other as they settled in for the night, doing chores and such around the fire.

Later on Arliden DID sing the first few verses of his Lanre song to the whole troupe but as I don't have my book with me I don't know what those lyrics were. If I remember correctly, he agreed to sing a bit of his song at Abenthy's going away party.

It doesnt have any lyrics to Arliden's secret song. It only says its about Lanre and his chandrian.

Here it is:) Took me a minute to get to it.

"Sit and listen all, for I will sing
A story, wrought and forgotten in time
Old and gone. A story of a man.
Proud Lanre, strong as the spring
Steel of the sword he had at ready hand.
Hear how he fought, fell, and rose again,
To fall again. Under shadow falling then.
Love felled him, love for native land,
And love of his wife Lyra, at whose calling
Some say he rose, through doors of death
To speak her name as his first newborn breath.”

Why do I totally not remember this after so many rereads?

Obviously my mind is at capacity or something... :(