Sword & Sorcery: "An earthier sort of fantasy" discussion

Daniel wrote: "Hello everyone. My name is Dan (Daniel Side) officially I guess. Fascinated in the early sixties by Burroughs. Was just at the right age to be captivated by all that adventure and his imagination. ..."

Welcome Dan, thank you for joining us!

Welcome, Dan

Hi I am mark from the uk, been reading all fantasy genres for over 30 years.

nice to see you guys reading the old stuff.

favourite s/s authors are robert e howard, fritz lieber and david gemmell.

Welcome, Mark. You've come to the right place, I think. You should check out the current group read topics: Karl Wagner and obscure S&S.

Thank you, I have been, I was very interested in the Chris Carlson reviews.

Hey everybody! It's good to find a group dedicated to just fantasy...swords and magic, not champagne and silk sheets:)

I'm Rob. I'm a university professor (special education) by day and a novice fantasy writer by night. My first book, Riddle in Stone, was release earlier in the year. I'm hoping to write more if it sells well enough.

And that's it! Thanks for forming such a terrific group!

-Rob

Welcome, Rob. Your book sounds interesting. I like the idea of your atypical protagonist.

Michael wrote: "Welcome, Rob. Your book sounds interesting. I like the idea of your atypical protagonist."

Thanks Michael. Hopefully he's engaging enough.

The biggest problem with writing an atypical protagonist is that I didn't want him to be such a wimp that nobody would like him, but I didn't want him to be so "manly" (for lack of a better word) that nobody could possibly relate to him.

You'll have to be the judge as to whether I walked the line well enough! :)

Welcome Dan & Rob, thank you for joining us. The current Groupread best reflects the group's focus. Remembering classic authors and discovering forgotten "treasures" of the genre...

Hi all!

I'm Martyn Stanley, author of 'The Deathsworn Arc' currently two books, soon to be three.

My fascination with Sword & Sorcery came from an unusual place. Initially 2000AD and Slaine, but then later I started getting 'The Savage Sword of Conan the Barbarian' it was a beautifully illustrated monthly comic and the stories seemed amazing to me at the time. I always found Conan an interested character, from the adaptations of Howard's Novels to the film portrayal in the eighties by then fledgling actor Schwarzenegar. The most recent stories I read was Paulini's 'Inheritance Cycle' which I thought was a fascinating world and had some great characters and locations.

My own series 'The Deathsworn Arc' is unusual, it has a blend of science and fantasy and has a core theme of atheism and pragmatism. I'm currently working on book proposals for an agent in the hope of securing a print deal and book 3, which was going to be called 'The Temple of the Mad God' but is now probably going to be called 'The Blood Queen'.

Martyn

Welcome. Luck with your work certainly!

Thanks!

Periklis wrote: "Welcome Dan & Rob, thank you for joining us. The current Groupread best reflects the group's focus. Remembering classic authors and discovering forgotten "treasures" of the genre..."

Thanks, Perklis. I'm looking forward to being here. I love fantasy, but it seems so much of it is overdone. I enjoy the, as it is stated here, "earthier" sort...where characters aren't always the manly men who win every battle and the hearts of all the pretty women.

Welcome Martyn, thanks for joining us and best of luck with your adventures in publishing!
I love Slaine and would recommend the series to any Sword & Sorcery reader.
Robert, in Leiber's term, it's that earthier sort of fantasy we're trying to discover and re(read). Thanks again for joining us.

Robert wrote: "Periklis wrote: "Welcome Dan & Rob, thank you for joining us. The current Groupread best reflects the group's focus. Remembering classic authors and discovering forgotten "treasures" of the genre...."

Hah! I wasn't going to plug my book here, but it strikes me as the sort of thing you might like. Lots of getting injured, lots of getting killed and a good dollop of losing :( I feel sorry for my characters, they don't have a great time :(

Martyn wrote: Hah! I wasn't going to plug my book here, but it strikes me as the sort of thing you might like. Lots of getting injured, lots of getting killed and a good dollop of losing :( I feel sorry for my characters, they don't have a great time :(

What's your book called? I'll have to get a copy.

Robert wrote: "Martyn wrote: Hah! I wasn't going to plug my book here, but it strikes me as the sort of thing you might like. Lots of getting injured, lots of getting killed and a good dollop of losing :( I feel ..."

Robert, here's the thread about Martyn's book: 'The Deathsworn Arc'

I came into Swords & sorcery when I moved with my family to the US. My uncle, who was living here and worked as an editor for a fanzine I the 1980s, encouraged me to work on my English reading skills by giving me a complete collection of the Frazetta-cover Conan stories. I was ten, and had only been speaking English for a couple of years, so it sent me to a dictionary and the internet not infrequently. By the time I was done with those volumes, not only could I read English but I knew thst THIS was what I wanted more of - the existential pull and psychological drive in thjs genre (and especially Howard's work, which I have since read without expurgations and rewrites) struck me as so much more meaningful than the cartoons and sanitized, maudlin teen novels I was familiar with already.
Since then I have read all of the Kane and Elric novels (excepting the later stuff Moorcock tacked on and revised, which is not to my taste - sometimes a writer should just leave his work alone and move on) and I have recently completed "The Broken Sword" by Poul Anderson, and loved it. At the moment I'm taking my first plunge into the world of Fafhrd and Grey Mouser. The women of the Snow Clan are misogyny inspiring, I'll tell you that!

Welcome to the group, Elise. Coincidently, Karl Edward Wagner's Kane is one of the two group read topics currently underway, (on the off chance you were looking for an excuse to do any re-reading).

Elise wrote: "...The women of the Snow Clan are misogyny inspiring..."

Welcome Elise. Nice intro. Completely agree about Moorcock's overextension of Elric...but that aside...to build on Jason's comments, we have ongoing groupreads (2 topics ranging for two months). We are polling for the next topics (Jan-Feb 2014), and a lead topic is "heroines female leads." Hopefully some of those books will compensate for any misogyny you find yourself reading now.

poll = https://www.goodreads.com/poll/list/8...

Welcome, Elise! :) Howard is the best in my opinion, and I love all of his Conan stuff. I read The Broken Sword a few months ago too, and I thought it was amazing! You've come to the right place to discuss all things sword & sorcery.

Elise wrote: "I came into Swords & sorcery when I moved with my family to the US. My uncle, who was living here and worked as an editor for a fanzine I the 1980s, encouraged me to work on my English reading ski..."

Welcome Elise, thank you for joining us. As a foreign reader of S&S, I experienced Leiber's work as both challenging and entertaining at the same time.

Thanks for the replies, all - and does anyone need a reason to re-read Wagner? Howard used to say Conan was the damndest bastard who ever lived, but Kane has topped that! I have always been a fan of warrior-mages, be it Elric, Anderson's elves or AD&D 1E's plate armored F/MU. Kane is about the onky warrior-magician around who isn't a freakin' elf! I do love me some elves...as long as they aren't ugly whimsical tree sprites. Elve design should follow Terry Pratchett's description, "anything you can do Elves can do better. Elves can do anything better than you."

welcome Elise - I've found your discussions interesting in several places recently, Goodreads and Facebook, very deep and mostly in line with my own thoughts. I just wanted to comment on your reading of Anderson's BROKEN SWORD... be sure to read the original, not the pansy version he reissued 20 some years later.

[quote]Kane is about the only warrior-magician around who isn't a freakin' elf[/quote]

Elric, as you say, but also the Gray Mouser? Gandalf, even . . . Vance has a few, and of course there's Skafloc (albeit one might argue that he's a half-elf, although I don't think Anderson's elves are quite in keeping with the sub-Tolkien portrayal that afflicts a lot of fantasy). Also Eolyn contains a tradition of fighting magicians (male and female) who aren't elves.

Jason M wrote: "ts. I just wanted to comment on your reading of Anderson's BROKEN SWORD... be sure to read the original, not the pansy version he reissued 20 some years later."
It's too late for that, but I picked up the unedited Fantasy Masterworks edition for reading at some later date. I'll give an example already of something superior about the original: a description of Skafloc's 'black byrnied body'. I had no idea his maille was black! It's never mentioned in the revised edition.

Hello, I'm Tara Cardinal, co-author of the sword and sorcery novel "Sword Sisters" with Alex Bledsoe.
This novel serves as a prequel to my feature film to be released world wide this summer.
That's me on the cover, doing what I do best - swinging a sword. I am a real life sword master, martial artist and retired pro-style wrestler.

Thanks for letting me come play in the group. I'm excited to join.

Tara wrote: "Hello, I'm Tara Cardinal, co-author of the sword and sorcery novel "Sword Sisters" with Alex Bledsoe.
This novel serves as a prequel to my feature film to be released world wide this summer.
That'..."
Cool to have you on! I recently joined myself! Swords are fun, though being 2" shy of 5' I could never swing a Black Prince without feeling like a merry-go-round. Glad you enjoy the art.

Hello and welcome, Tara. Congratulations on the novel and forthcoming movie release. Sounds like quite an adventure. I look forward to hearing more about it.

Jadis - you are SOOO cute with those glasses! You would make a great sword sister - we'll just make you a shorter sword :)
I had that problem when I first training. All my masters were enormous men, and I'd train with their swords - which would always get stuck in the ground when I was defending my lower half! Now I know the trick! Shorter swords. Make up for the difference in width and charge in there like your tail is on fire.
(The secret is simple - men need more space to fight, when you get in close enough they can't maneuver their long arms and blades properly - the can't hit you).

Hey Jason - nice to e-meet you!

I think John Moses Browning has a more practical solution for size disparity, heh. I can't swing a sword, but I'm not half bad with a shotgun.

I can't define what I like and am having a hard time finding books. I don't like the lines drawn in the sand saying this must be horror and this romance and this fantasy. I think it limits us. I'll settle on picking this group because as an avid follower of the Forgotten Realms it's as close as I'm going to get. Warning. I think novels need more gay sex and romance is picking flowers not this crap I'm finding on the shelves.

My fav novels speak volumes about who I am:
The Dresden Files (fire)
The Sharing Knife Series (water lilies)
Doctrine of Labyrinths (red)

And of course Drizzt because what can get hotter than black with white hair and sharp blades?

Hi all. Wassup?

Welcome to the group, Jem. Here's hoping someone around here can scare up a recommendation that you might like. I'm in quite to opposite predicament, though, in that I find way too many books that I do like, (or think I will, at least) and my to be read pile is staggeringly tall.

Jem -- I haven't read them myself, I admit, but you might want to check out The Steel Remains and The Cold Commands, both by Richard K. Morgan.

Jem wrote: "I can't define what I like and am having a hard time finding books. I don't like the lines drawn in the sand saying this must be horror and this romance and this fantasy. I think it limits us. I..."

Welcome Jem. This group focuses on Sword & Sorcery, but we are not very restrictive. It is generally a mash-up of horror, short-pulp fiction, & epic-high-fantasy. Romance/sex is usually done poorly, ie with a misogynistic tone. That said, the upcoming Jan-Feb 2014 groupread may compensate, being "Heroine" focused.
Link=https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

The The Throne of Bones comes to mind as being an awesome, obscure horror/fiction (more weird horror than action-fantasy), which could be classified as ghoul-erotica.

Welcome to all new members.

Welcome, Jem! I work with an author, Janet Morris, who has been writing what you are talking about for a few decades now. One of her series started in Thieves' World but took off on its own: The Sacred Band of Stepsons, modeled along the lines of the Sacred Band of Thebes -- paired fighters, some partnered in more ways than just fighting together, but not all. Their commander, Tempus, is a semi-immortal avatar of the storm gods of the armies.

Somewhere earlier I described a series: Silistra, that, while on the one hand is sci-fi, is also earthy fantasy because of the level of technology (or lack thereof) available when the populace emerges from the underground habitats after the planet heals itself. Sterility problems are widespread which forces some very interesting ways of determining who is actually fertile and keeping the gene pool as deep as possible. This issue of genre-niches is maddening because it keeps changing the actual intent of authors due to new interpretations of genre titles... Like "Historical Fiction" has come to mean cheesy bodice-rippers ::groan::

Lols, Sarah you should join the historical group I am in, you will fit right in.

Hi everyone

I'm Rider and I read sword & sorcery. I'm a huge Michael Moorcock fan and I also enjoy a bit of Robert E Howard and other pulp S&S writers. I like fantasy to be fast and full of action and adventure, so the more epic stuff isn't my cup of tea.

Looking forward to being part of the group.

Hello and welcome to the group, Rider. Good to have you aboard.

Rider wrote: "Hi everyone

I'm Rider and I read sword & sorcery. I'm a huge Michael Moorcock fan and I also enjoy a bit of Robert E Howard and other pulp S&S writers. I like fantasy to be fast and full of action..."


Welcome Rider. Feel welcome to browse the existing threads/discussions or create a new one.

With the new year, we will continue our two-topic/two-month-duration group reads too, the next selections being "Heroines" and "Anthologies":
Here is the announcement: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Hi everyone! Sorry I am late to the party! Long time reader of epic fantasy, strictly a reader, no writer blood in my veins! Cut my book teeth on Thieves World, The Immortals, 9 Princes of Amber and Dragonriders of Pern. Looking forward being a part of this group and the discussions!

Welcome, Lori.
jem

Welcome to the group, Lori.

If I have figured goodreads out enough to make this introduction to the S&S group work, with the help of trying a different browser (internet explorer has been more hostile than usual, lately), hooray for me. I'm in the S&S group because Seth revealed it to me. I read and write within the genre, have for many years, plus horror of various kinds. But the first novel I ever completed (and of course never sold) was S&S...sent to Donald Woolheim at DAW...and rejected (wisely!). I'd been reading Conan and Elric and other classics and wanted to do my own. Recently, I recently prepared an S&S trilogy I wrote for Warner/Questar in the mid-‘80s into ebook form, involving a Norse warrior woman named Bloodsong, the whole saga in one volume. The trilogy is known as the Bloodsong Saga or the Hel Trilogy (since the Norse Goddess of the Forgotten Dead, Hel, is involved), so I called the ebook "HEL X 3" – and to prepare the scans for their new publication, I went back through the novels and rediscovered what I'd written those many years ago. I expanded scenes, even added chapters, made the story and characters more like I'd wanted them to be but publisher deadlines had prevented. For example, I remember hammering out (was I still using a typewriter?... I think I had a dandy CPM Kaypro with a blazing built-in 300 baud modem by then, maybe...but for sure it was way before Windows and Word) the third book (Werebeasts of Hel) in about 1 month...automatic pilot was totally engaged, because I was also maintaining a tech writing day job full-time...I guess I didn't sleep much...and it must have been like Robert Howard's comment about Conan standing near dictating the stories, but in my case it was Bloodsong riding my back gripping my neck in a choke-hold yelling at me to HURRY!...not that a warrior woman like her riding one's back like a screaming Valkyrie would necessarily be a bad thing...but... anyway...I love the S&S genre, particularly when strong women characters are involved, and I'm looking forward to being in the group.

Dean, so glad you conquered your computer browser to join in again. Your Bloodsong saga was the gateway "drug" for me as a teenager, leading me away from lighter, epic fantasy (ie Dragonlance) and into darker territory. It has the fast paced and simplicity in style expected for many young adult novels, but it is infused with such fantastic horror elements that is too gritty for the youngsters.

I am about 70% done with your Bloodsong! — Hel X 3 eBook release. Amazing to consider the book's evolution from typewriter script to Kindle book.

Actually, to ensure I read the entire saga, I just received the Pawn of Chaos: Tales of the Eternal Champion anthology to see how Bloodsong interacts with Moorcok's eternal champion (the Urlik Skarsol incarnation). That is only a short story, but I believe it is the last of the Bloodsong fiction. Except...you indicate a fourth novel is in the works.

Looking forward to discussing more with you in this thread and in the current Heroine thread: link = https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Welcome to the group!

Welcome to the group, Dean. I also look forward to hearing your comments, and to further discussions.

Seth--thanks for the welcome. That Bloodsong short story, "The Warskull of Hel" (which was my original title for the first book in the trilogy, by the way), in that Moorcock anthology, is one of only two Bloodsong short stories that have been written. I am planning others, in addition to the Valkyries of Hel novel that is in progress. A more recent Bloodsong short story, dating from a book published in conjunction with the World Fantasy Convention in Austin, Texas, in 2006, is in a Robert E. Howard centenary tribute anthology called CROSS PLAINS UNIVERSE, edited by Scott Cupp and Joe Lansdale. The Bloodsong story in it is called, "Slim and Swede and the Damned Dead Horse." As she battles Hel through Time in an unending "Final Battle," at a crucial moment she materializes along with Hel in the Old West, encountering there two Texas cowboys fighting for their lives against a pursuing Comanche war party. There are a bunch of good stories in that anthology, including one by Michael Moorcock. Here's an Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/Cross-Plains-Un...

Hi, I'm Dave and I write Sword and Sorcery.

I cut my teeth on the Lancer Conans, Fafhrd and the Mouser, and all the other good stuff that I could find in the seventies.

I love the field so much I had to write it. Amadar, my first novel, fits squarely in the genre and I have a sequel on the back burner.

I'm glad to be here and would love to discuss it with anyone.

Dave wrote: "Hi, I'm Dave and I write Sword and Sorcery.

I cut my teeth on the Lancer Conans..."

Those Lancer Conans with the Frazetta covers are still, for all their shortcomings, my favorite editions of Conan, falling apart and yellowed as they are. Got most of mine already tattered in a used book store back in the '70s. Precious treasures!