Pride and Prejudice discussion

It occurs to me that if Mr Bennet had started years ago in lovingly coaching his wife about the importance of diplomatic behavior and if he'd insisted that the younger Bennet girls NOT come out until 17 or so (or until the oldest were married), Darcy and Bingley would have had nothing to complain of. The older girls would have not had the problems they had.

Of course, we would not have had the amazing story we had.

Husbands of that era were often considered to be en loco parentis in relationship to their wives and Mr. Bennet could have influenced Mrs. Bennet to be a more socially graceful creature.

Does anyone else think that the fault for most of the novel's trouble are squarely in his court?

Dear Stephen, have you no consideration for Mrs. Bennet’s poor nerves? lol

Ha, possibly. Mr. Bennet did not seem to care that he the 'three most silliest daughters' (said in BBC version 1995) and my link text http://www.jasna.org/persuasions/on-line/vol22no1/ellwood.html would definitely agree that Mr. Bennet was not a very good father to his children.

I wonder if Darcy and Bingley's sisters would have found any other reasons for Bingley and Jane not to marry. If Mr. B had been a better husband/father, Lydia would deinitely not run away with Wickam, Kitty possibly wouldn't be such a follower, Maybe Jane would open up more, Elizabeth with not so much pride or prejudice, Mrs. B not so, Nervy? Obsessed with marriage?, and Mary not so droll(even though I think sometimes she is underappreciated, she is snobby and droll).

In the end, not many would have enjoyed P&P if Mr. Bennet was a very good father.

(But then again, each person has to take a level of blame. I realize that Mr. Bennet was up against alot. He was the only guy in a land of giggling females. Since Mrs. Bennet had more in common with her daughters, she had more sway over them (I'm thinking 2005 P&P Sending Jane out horseback instead of taking a carriage). I still think Mr. B was terrible in disciplinary measures, and maybe showing more respect for the females in the house.)

Seriously, see the way Mr. Bennet stopped Mary from singing at the Netherfield party. He didn't know how to respect his own children. :(
=====
He took the hint, and when Mary had finished her second song, said aloud,
"That will do extremely well, child. You have delighted us long enough. Let the other young ladies have time to exhibit."
Mary, though pretending not to hear, was somewhat disconcerted; and Elizabeth sorry for her, and sorry for her father's speech, was afraid her anxiety had done no good.

I don't know. I don't think he was so bad in that case. It was with letting Lydia go to Meryton that he really messed up, and he basically said it was because he wasn't up for the fight. As a parent, I can understand that, but sometimes you have to fight.

I think with the nerves of Mrs. Bennet ,the sensibility of Mr.Bennet could have been of little use:)

Filza wrote: "I think with the nerves of Mrs. Bennet ,the sensibility of Mr.Bennet could have been of little use:)"

Personally I felt that Mrs. Bennet's nerves were a conceit that she used to absolve herself of any responsibility for what happens. While I generally found it as entertaining as Mr. Bennet did in a literary sense, in real life, I would have not condoned it.

Jane Austen is accused of accepting circumstances too placidly. However, I think in cases like that of Mr. Bennet, she makes her criticism quite sharp. But quietly.

Shelley
http://dustbowlpoetry.wordpress.com

I do not believe that mr bennet was either a carless or poor parent he was trying to save mary from making more of a show of herself just his handling of the situation could have had a bit more thought. I think that he has realised that some of his daughters are beyond reproach and wants them to learn life's lessons the hard way to try to improve them as adults.

I initially thought that he was just carefree not careless in order to balance Mrs. Bennett who was neurotic. Now I think it is important to see Mr. Bennett as a poor parent in order for the readers to contrast him with Mr. Gardiner who, unlike Mr. Bennett, was a man of action and sensibility to the Bennett girls.

Mr. Gardiner's availability was what the kind of support these girls needed - which their father could not or was unable to provide.

Sharon wrote: "I do not believe that mr bennet was either a carless or poor parent he was trying to save mary from making more of a show of herself just his handling of the situation could have had a bit more tho..."

Yes, instead of speaking aloud, he could have told Mary quietly, especially in a party like this. He made Mary embarrassed...

Here's another example.
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After listening one morning to their effusions on this subject, Mr. Bennet coolly observed,
"From all that I can collect by your manner of talking, you must be two of the silliest girls in the country. I have suspected it some time, but I am now convinced."
Catherine was disconcerted, and made no answer.

I always like Mr. Bennet, and his relationship with Lizzie, but agree that he was an irresponsible father. He was an intelligent man who made the still common mistake of marrying a pretty, but stupid woman. Since he only had daughters, and not sons, he ceded all of the parenting to his (stupid) wife, and it was only due to Jane's innate decency and sweetness, and Lizzie's innate intelligence that the older girls escaped being fools. I doubt that in those times that many fathers took a prominent role in raising their daughters, but the one things fathers did do was lay down the law, demand propriety. He did neither of these things.

I think there is a lot to be learned from things that Mr. Bennet says, notably: "For what do we live, but to make sport for our neighbours, and laugh at them in our turn?" He is overly flippant and doesn't take things as seriously as he should. I don't know if I'd say it makes him a "bad parent" but it's definitely a character flaw.

He hides himself in his library, and doesn't realise what Lydia is up to with Wickham until too late. He's definitely a negligent parent, and when that's combined with Mrs Bennet's silliness the Bennet sisters really had no chance.

He was the best character in the whole thing. He didn't even want to go to the stupid party where Mary was singing anyway. He let his wife and each of his daughters have their own passions and do what they pleased ( rare for the setting) and bailed them out when they failed. And if your wife makes you go somewhere do you really expect to be able to control her behavior when she gets their? He was human yes, but a nice guy who liked to sit in his library, loved his family and did his best by them. he would be great to have for a husband or a father.

I don't think he was a negligent parent. For the most part, he seemed to have an accurate read on all of his daughters true natures and characters. He was absolutely right in his decision to not force Elizabeth to accept her marriage proposal even though she was in danger of approaching spinsterhood. He understood how important it was for her to marry for love and for no other reason but love. I think his only mistake was underestimating the silliness of the two younger girls. Perhaps he was lax in the sense that he didn't take them seriously and didn't see it as a problem until it was too late.

No, I do not believe that the novel's problems are solely in Mr. Bennet's court.

Out of his five girls, Lydia and Kitty were the ones acting silly and annoying. The other three were more level headed and conscious of the social norms. Why is that? Is it a coincidence that Mrs. Bennet favourite daughter was the one who behaved in the most unscrupulous manner?

Mrs Bennet encouraged Kitty and Lydia's behaviour and attitude towards the officers. Mrs. Bennet, though a woman of aged was trapped in the time where she was sort over by the officers. In addition, since she was desperate to marry off all her daughters, she trusted any dashing and charming officers around her them.

I want to point out the example of Lydia's departure to Brighton with the Forsters. Lizzie is trying to reason with her father that sending Lydia to Brighton with her attitude (lydia) would be dangerous. However, her father just brush it off that Lydia needed such opportunity and she was not rich, she would be in no danger from officers around. In this instance I believe Mr. Bennet could have been a stricter parent, he knew his daughter was a terrible flirt. He knew that she could get carried away. When he learned that Lydia run off with Wickham, he blames himself. He believes he should take the blame because he was careless. He was stuck in his library to hide away from the wife he married for her beauty-but now he was stuck with her "poor nerves"- and the silliness of some of his daughters.

Therefore, I will not blame Mr. Bennet for the novel problems but I will say that he could have been a better disciplinary. I think he did learn because he promise Kitty would have less leisure. Parents can learn from Mr. and Mrs. Bennet, you cannot be over indulgent or careless about the behaviour of your children.

I blame Lydia for being stupid and naive to believe that she would run away with Wickhman and he would marry her happily.

I blame Wickham for being a liar and unambitious.

I blame Darcy for assuming he knew Jane's feelings so well.

I blame Lizzie for being prejudice against some and naive in accepting others.

I think you get my drift.

I thought he was of a different nature as a person and didn't do that bad as a father. In fact, we see that he a really adorable father at so many instances.

On the contrary, for the times, Mr. Bennett was a more involved father than most. Social conventions of one gender are not taught to the other, so the girls' education fell directly on Mrs. Bennett's shoulders.

Mrs. Bennett was a vulgar woman with her mind above her station, essentially, and her actions in spoiling the youngest resulted in a direct personification of her own gauche habits.

Mr. Bennett did what he could within the parameters of his understanding and quite honestly, the fact that any of his daughters came out ahead is a miracle.

While in today's society, we expect more from a father, in those times, Mr. Bennett was the forward-thinking character in that he was involved in his family's life in any way. Most men go to work, travel, tend the books, and go to the club, leaving the wife at home with the children, the house servants, the food, etc. In wealthier homes, the wife then left the children with the nanny and did her socializing.

I really enjoyed his character. He was loving and involved, more than society encouraged and he truly adored his children--even the silly ones.

Mr. Bennett was an amazing father, loved by his children. I think you have not considered the mindsets of teenage daughters. They are ruled by emotions that can change instantly.

Jeni wrote: "On the contrary, for the times, Mr. Bennett was a more involved father than most. Social conventions of one gender are not taught to the other, so the girls' education fell directly on Mrs. Bennett..."

What an amazing way to describe him! Ah!

Pride and Prejudice is a comedy of manners.

The plot was dependent on Austen playing with social mores and norms. Mr. Bennett married a woman that was not the social norm. She raised her children similarly. You can view it as neglect because the girls were not given a fair chance in society, taught proper manners, taught "women skills" such as dancing, piano, & painting.

While Lydia and Kitty might seem annoying, I would gather that Elizabeth would have acted similarly. Whether or not the children are a product of neglect - the children grew up to be their own person. All with different passions and past times.

I rather like my solemn little Lizzy with her sharp tongue and devil may care attitude, and near spinster best friend.

That's a good point I've never thought of that! I agree with you that he could have influenced Mrs. Bennett!

I had only watched the newer movie, which has become a favorite for my daughter and I to watch together. Recently I watched the original (longer) movie and then read the book.
I found the character of Mr. Bennett different in each of the three tellings. In the long movie he was a stern husband and father who showed little love. In the newer movie he was someone who seemed to have decided long ago that trying to influence his wife and daughters was of no use, and he became a somewhat lame, confused person. As to the book, having just read it 2 weeks ago I cannot come up with a picture of him or his character! I will always love the story but will probably never read the book again, just watch the better movie!!

Culturing the younger daughters could be seen as a ware of time as they couldn't really afford to marry them off anyway.

Failure to do so without being able to marry them off guarantees they wouldn't be respectable, which is what would have happened to Lydia without Darcy's help.

But really, most families in the position of the Bennets would have had their daughters become governesses. We see that with Jane Fairfax in Emma. So really, the Bennets weren't that bad off financially. They weren't the Dashwoods, for example, and even the Dashwood girls weren't expected to earn their own living.

Why do the parents always get the blame?

I liked Mr Bennett and in fact feel a little sorry for him as he was surely hen pecked and badgered into giving in to his whining nim whitted wife. Can you even imagine a man living with these 6 woman and coming out unscathed.

I like that he keeps his sense on humor and recognises his children as individuals.

As for the the younger to girls, there is a saying that goes something like "The apple does not fall far from the tree". They were solely influenced by their silly mother but at the end of the day responsible for their own actions just as their older sisters decided to act in a intelligent and respectable way so they chose to not. Their journey their life their fault.

Mr. Bennett was definitely meant to take some share of the blame for his daughter's misadventure. We see him "wise up" by the end of the novel, clamping down firmly on his youngest when she seems to threaten to go the same way as her 'wild' sister. He is someone who has checked out at the beginning of the novel, preferring to use his wife and daughter's extravagances as fodder for his jokes, but he is ultimately impotent to effect the fate of his family until he determines to be an engaged and disciplinarian father.

I think Mr Bennet does care about his family but he was a little careless in not hiring a governess for his daughters to educate them and letting his youngest daughters and his wife spend all their money and not putting some aside so that if they don't get to keep their house at least they have some money and if they had a governess they would have been educated enough to get a job or some sort.

Jettcatt wrote: "Why do the parents always get the blame?

I liked Mr Bennett and in fact feel a little sorry for him as he was surely hen pecked and badgered into giving in to his whining nim whitted wife. Can yo..."

Good point! Everybody is responsible for their actions. But, you have to admit, parents have a strong sway over their children, especially when younger. Even though Mr. Bennet would have to be battling his silly wife, he could have gave them little bits of sensibleness and knowledge while they were growing up.

What's funny though, is that back then, the mothers' were expected to raise the children and if anything went wrong, the fathers' took the blame. Also, we are judging Mr. Bennet by the 21st century standards, with a 21st century mind set. Maybe back then, the richer people (Darcy, his aunt,etc) thought that he was a bad parent especially since he didn't have a governess for his children, and maybe the slightly poorer (Lucases?) thought he did the best that he could under the circumstances with "noo heir".

I think Mr Bennet was not a good father as he was not a good role model for his daughters. He married beneath him to a woman that was not only stupid but very disagreeable in her manners although she admittedly was very fond of her children. He then took no trouble in their education nor planned for their future dowries. He was lazy and only interested in his own pleasures. Mr Bennet was an educated man and should have provided for his family opportunities that would improve his daughters circumstances.

I believe Mr. Bennet character is very fed up of the histerical women in Longbourn. When he lets Lydia go to Brighton he's just looking for some peace in the house. Through the hole book we see him dominated by women (The best scene is one of the firsts when Jane takes the horse to Netherfield).

No, he is not a really careless nor a poor father. He certainly committed some mistakes with Lydia, Kitty and Mary but not with Lizzy nor Jane. Or I can put it otherwise: he was a superb father for Lizzy and Jane, but not so for the other sisters!

The lack of decorum and good manners amongst the younger Bennets and their mother influnenced society against the family as a whole. Mr Darcy declared this when he proposed to Elizabeth and earlier to his friend who wanted to marry Jane. All this stems from Mr Bennets indifference to his children.

Paola wrote: "No, he is not a really careless nor a poor father. He certainly committed some mistakes with Lydia, Kitty and Mary but not with Lizzy nor Jane. Or I can put it otherwise: he was a superb father for..."

Why couldn't he treat his daughters equally?
People are born equal. :)

Quoted from Chapter 42:
Her father captivated by youth and beauty, and that appearance of good humour, which youth and beauty generally give, had married a woman whose weak understanding and illiberal mind, had very early in their marriage put an end to all real affection for her. Respect, esteem, and confidence, had vanished for ever; and all his views of domestic happiness were overthrown. But Mr. Bennet was not of a disposition to seek comfort for the disappointment which his own imprudence had brought on, in any of those pleasures which too often console the unfortunate for their folly or their vice. He was fond of the country and of books; and from these tastes had arisen his principal enjoyments. To his wife he was very little otherwise indebted, than as her ignorance and folly had contributed to his amusement. This is not the sort of happiness which a man would in general wish to owe to his wife; but where other powers of entertainment are wanting, the true philospher will benefit from such as are given.
Elizabeth, however, had never been blind to the impropriety of her father's behaviour as a husband. She had always seen it with pain; but respecting his abilities, ......

Mr Bennett has always been my least favourite character. He is constantly showing favoritism, comparing his children and putting down "the three silliest girls" in the country. I also think it unnecessary when he brands Mary in that category, as Mary may be dull, but silly? She tries hard but is still met with rudeness from Mr Bennett. Whereas Mrs Bennet is only melodramatic and irritating, Mr Bennett is cruel to everyone in his family, bar Elizabeth.

The only good thing I can say about Mr Bennett was that he sided with Elizabeth when she refused to marry her cousin, much to the disgust of her mother and the possible financial ruin that might put all her sisters in.

I always thought he was just a fine, real character,a normal man getting disappointed by marriage and trying to cope with it by ignoring his wife's foolishness rather than getting involved by trying to teach her and reminding himself the slight disappointment. I think in real life those men never turn out as teachers:D

I think the only blame that should be put on Mr Bennet is being a little too despondent. I get the feeling from the books that Mr Bennet had tried in the past to be more instructive to his wife and daughters but this failed/was not in his nature to do so. He prefers a more "laissez faire" style of parenting and distracts himself from his feminine family with his books. The blame of course lies with Mrs Bennet, in my opinion.

Quoted from chapter 46:
She (Lydia) was wild to be at home—to hear, to see, to be upon the spot to share with Jane in the cares that must now fall wholly upon her, in a family so deranged, a father absent, a mother incapable of exertion, and requiring constant attendance;