Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion

Hi James, the ancient Egyptians used them as a conduit between the divine realm and the earthly domain. The only intermediary that could interpret any 'message' was the king or high priest of Amun-Re. In modern times , the freemasons used this symbol as a link between their craft and the secret religion of the Egyptians. I think that in some ways the form of the obelisk has been recontextualised as a counter balance to the Catholic church.

Tony wrote: "Hi James, the ancient Egyptians used them as a conduit between the divine realm and the earthly domain. The only intermediary that could interpret any 'message' was the king or high priest of Amun-..."

Fascinating Tony - did I see you have written a book on this subject?

Thanks James, my book ,'The Obelisk and the Cross' details the evolution of belief systems in the western world. It does discuss in detail the symbol of the obelisk as an icon that means different things across time and culture. Most of the so called secret societies really gained traction during the Renaissance as a reaction to a then corrupt and cruel Catholic church.

Good optical illusion in this short video...that kinda relates to the topic at hand...

The Monkey Business Illusion -- https://www.goodreads.com/videos/1049...

Yes ! but what if you are in the select group who not only knows but also orchestrates the 'secret gorilla symbol' . This knowledge is what gives power to the symbol. They know the true game - and that is all it is ,a game. A game of secrets, clubs and control... But then again that's human nature. ( good and bad) in my humble and maybe ignorant opinion.

Harry Whitewolf (aka The Whitewolf) returns with a new video on this subject:

HIDDEN ANIMAL AND DEMON FACES ON A £20 NOTE -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZfnQ...

Tony wrote: "Yes ! but what if you are in the select group who not only knows but also orchestrates the 'secret gorilla symbol' . This knowledge is what gives power to the symbol. They know the true game - and that is all it is ,a game. A game of secrets, clubs and control... But then again that's human nature. ( good and bad) in my humble and maybe ignorant opinion. ..."

Yes, very true Tony - some of these things are grand conspiracies, but others are simply human nature where nefarious activities occur not because of any grand design but simply because humans are often power-mad...

James ,given the title of your new book and the theme of this discussion; have you heard of the book "The Nazis and the occult" by D Sklar. I found it in a second hand bookshop near the Victorian border. A very disturbing but interesting read. It is on Amazon if you are interested.

Tony wrote: "James ,given the title of your new book and the theme of this discussion; have you heard of the book "The Nazis and the occult" by D Sklar. I found it in a second hand bookshop near the Victorian b..."

Am aware of that title, but never read.
The occult origins of many of the Nazi's symbols ties in with this discussion thread actually...

This video confirms some of the info I learnt from reading Matrix Visions by Harry Whitewolf:

How Corporate Elite Logos, Subliminals And Symbols Control You -- https://www.goodreads.com/videos/1112...

The Symbolism Of Freemasonry

An article on the aforementioned Rothschild ball with all its apparent occult symbolism:

LEAKED: Photos from Secret creepy Illuminati party at Rothschild Mansion 1972 http://voiceofpeopletoday.com/leaked-...

And here's the video again for anyone who missed it:

Weird symbolism from 1972 Rothschild ball https://www.goodreads.com/videos/7220...

But the fact remains that they are probably dead now. all evens out in the end we hope !

Tony wrote: "But the fact remains that they are probably dead now. all evens out in the end we hope !"

The sociopathic bloodlines remain tho...
And on that note, normally socioapths in our population are just random creations due to genetic anomalies at birth or else created by a harsh environment or trauma. However, I heard this interesting theory recently about the darkest families/dynasties of "the elite" (for want of a better term) and how it's possible they could inadvertently create generation after generation of sociopaths. The theory said that if you bring children up to believe they are superior to the rest of the population, that they have a duty to the family/dynasty/regime/monarchy etc that supersedes their own personal values, then it's entirely possible to create entire generations for centuries who have little to no compassion and are therefore sociopaths. I guess this would be similar to some of the methods intelligence agencies are said to use to create the most ruthless assassins in espionage circles.

Nature or nurture.... James, that is the question. :)

There is an ongoing study in N.Z. that suggests nature (genes) loads the gun but nurture pulls the trigger. This applies to both psychopaths and sociopaths. Lets hope the use of symbols does not influence the 'nurture' component - but they might.

Tony wrote: "There is an ongoing study in N.Z. that suggests nature (genes) loads the gun but nurture pulls the trigger. This applies to both psychopaths and sociopaths. Lets hope the use of symbols do not influence the 'nurture' component - but they might. ..."

Makes sense.

On another level, I guess what I'm getting at is the fact that despite their secret symbols and fraternities ,these people die like the rest of us. The real holy grail of these sects is not just power but immortality. This has always failed.... until now! There could be a real great leap forward in medical technology that extends life to a select few.
If, through advances in technology and medicine,
physical immortality becomes a reality then a person
would simply never die. The sustainability of a population
that has the capacity to procreate but not to die
becomes an issue. A scientifically generated form of
immortality would probably be expensive and limited
only to those who could afford the price of eternal
life. This reality shatters the consolation of the poor
throughout time, that death does not discriminate.
In the past, we have all been doomed to die. If this
changes for some, the burden and misery of being
poor would be unbearable for those who would be neglected and rejected by a new rich and immortal
elite of super humans.

Agreed, Tony, absolutely.
Your latest book has a chapter covering future immortality potential in science and virtual reality, if I'm not mistaken?

One thing I'd add is we need to keep in mind classified/suppressed technologies within the upper echelons of the military and the elite's private contractor firms like Lockheed Martin...
Some of this classified tech is decades ahead of official academic science that mainstream scientists are aware of.
Therefore...Don't be surprised if what we think "they" are planning to do, they've already been doing it for a while!
Just my two cents worth...

Thanks James, it does...Agree, we are heading for a 'brave new world' for a privileged few...Unless we can get Harry to lead a 'poetic' revolution ! ; )

Tony wrote: "Agree, we are heading for a 'brave new world' for a privileged few...Unless we can get Harry to lead a 'poetic' revolution ! ; )"

Ha! I'm trying! :)

I find it interesting that we now have a distinction between 'pictures', 'symbols' and 'words' - in that all were one and the same originally.

Words are pictures. Words are symbols.

What is a capital A if not the picture of a pyramid with capstone?

Harry wrote: "What is a capital A if not the picture of a pyramid with capstone? ..."

Haven't ever thought of it that way.

But you're right (again!)

James wrote: "But you're right (again!)"

I'm always right. ;)


(Semi-colon bracket picture.)

Is there a danger of overthinking? Harry wrote: "What is a capital A if not the picture of a pyramid with capstone?" Given that capitals are different from small letters, you need 52 shapes, and you might want to be different from some of the Greek shapes. Isn't A a reasonably easy shape, with the horizontal to differentiate from the Greek lambda?

Ian wrote: "Is there a danger of overthinking? Harry wrote: "What is a capital A if not the picture of a pyramid with capstone?" Given that capitals are different from small letters, you need 52 shapes, and yo..."

Yes. Agreed. But A still looks like a pyramid with capstone nevertheless. ;)

The Secret Language of the Renaissance: Decoding the Hidden Symbolism of Italian Art

Has anyone else noticed all the weird (wyrd) symbolism in casinos? The mandala-like patterns in the carpets, the pyramids everywhere and symbols of the ancients all over the slot-machine screens...Not to mention the symmetry of the layouts...

This article touches on what I'm getting at, but the author doesn't really go deep enough:

Extreme Symbolism
Entertainment Value In Video Slots Extends to Symbols And How They’re Used http://www.casinocenter.com/extreme-s...

Given the casino biz is one of the most profitable around, it makes sense, I think...

Beyond the subtle symbols that speak to our subconscious minds, I've always felt casinos also have mind control going on...I bet there are subliminal messages in the slot-machine screens...A lot of people report they go in casinos planning to spend a set amount, then walk out having spent many times what they had planned to...And not all of them are impulsive personalities or gambling addicts...

The seductive flashing lights within the overall dimly-lit environment, music and color schemes all indicate to me casino executives know a thing or two about a thing or two when it comes to influencing the mind...They've researched how to put gamblers/visitors into the perfect brainwaves for suggestibility/confidence/joy...You can see the same thing going on in the biggest shopping malls and supermarkets (founders of whom know about the techniques described in books like The Hidden Persuaders), but casino execs are taking it to a whole other level...

Tony wrote: "On another level, I guess what I'm getting at is the fact that despite their secret symbols and fraternities ,these people die like the rest of us. ..."

Unless the Elite are aware of our (rumored) multi-dimensional selves and parallel universes (ala quantum physics where you exist in all universes simultaneously)...Therefore Earthly immortality wouldn't be required, but rather something more like a conscious "transference"...Immortality could be different and more layered than what we realize...

James wrote: "Has anyone else noticed all the weird (wyrd) symbolism in casinos? The mandala-like patterns in the carpets, the pyramids everywhere and symbols of the ancients all over the slot-machine screens......"


It gets better James...If you add all the numbers up on a roulette wheel, they total 666.

James wrote: "Tony wrote: "On another level, I guess what I'm getting at is the fact that despite their secret symbols and fraternities ,these people die like the rest of us. ..."

Unless the Elite are aware of ..."

That could represent the extreme dark side of Gnosticism. Here, the material world is something to be plundered and abused. Then they escape from it.

Ha! That's a rather (Roman) Christiancentric angle, I would say, Tony (is your middle name Constantine?). I would argue this belief is not just Gnostic, but fits eastern religions (Hinduism, Buddhism) too... but neither West or East are saying this world is to be plundered or abused, but rather the immortality of spirit (in all dimensions/universes) are what's important. Earthly immortality would be pointless under these BELIEF systems...

My battle still rages James. : )


Lets say people do have an innate choice within them to either embrace 'the good' or take on something darker and selfish when they leave this world. If this choice is made during the experience of their earthly existence then this would be reflected in how they live their lives now. I think the dark side of both western and eastern culture put out 'the bad'.

I think the Christian view is simply don't think about it...have faith, join the Church, follow your leaders and you may be saved. But saved from what? The problem here is that many 'leaders' prefer power and abuse to salvation.

Personally I try to choose the good. For me Gnosis is not fixed but a personal journey.

Tony wrote: "I think the Christian view is simply don't think about it...have faith, join the Church, follow your leaders and you may be saved. But saved from what?..."

Yes, I feel this is all a form of mind control...It's so intense, and hard-wired into believers' neurology, that even after they leave it is very hard to shake off...I know ex-Christians who were brought up religious since childhood and still find themselves judging other (good) peoples as sinful/immoral just because they are non-Christian...And some even feel guilt after leaving and after they no longer believe "there's only one way to heaven"...Weird!

Of course this phenomenon is not just in Christianity. Virtually all other religions have it and it cult groups or communes or the likes of Scientology it's even more intense.

p.s. Thanks for letting me know a roulette wheel always totals 666. Sounds about right!

The 'truth is within you'. The heart of Gnostic thought. But what if that (personal) truth is a preference for the darker aspects of materiality? This may be the real secret the elites choose to keep from the rest of us. I think we tend to make the mistake that spirituality (and the spiritual) is always a positive journey of illumination.

Tony wrote: "The 'truth is within you'. The heart of Gnostic thought. But what if that (personal) truth is a preference for the darker aspects of materiality? This may be the real secret the elites choose to ke..."

Ah yes, not everything that glitters on the path of spirituality is gold...As the history of cult groups reveal!
Think this duality of man, which the likes of the older religions such as the Native American religious faiths speak of in detail as you know, is not so much Christianity vs Gnosticism, but simply the human condition - no matter what faith system or absence of a person subscribes to. Everyone has a good and dark side (or the potential for both at least), depends which self each of us feed I guess.

I happen to believe what Carl Jung wrote:

"One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious."

Maybe when we are unaware of the potential for evil we have inside ourselves, we are then most capable of committing evils. Is this what happened in the worst episodes of history such as Nazi Germany?

Yes , I think so. Its what makes the 20th century stand out as the culmination of an extensional crisis as a culture in the west.
I think Harry's poetry addresses some of this at a direct and personal level. From my review of 'Underdogs Unite'.

This collection of poems expresses some of the harder questions of our time from the perspective of someone who is brave enough to look into the abyss eye to eye and then see a way out for all of us. From Look at the good;

“And know that we can make this world a better one,
Because that is something we have already done”.


As Dr Jung would say......Synchronicity James .

Signs, Symbols & Omens: An Illustrated Guide to Magical & Spiritual Symbolism

Here's some footage from elitist ceremonies...
Let me know what you think of all the strange symbolism in this 13 minute video I just uploaded:

Do the Elite practice a secret Ancient Religion? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23sLF...

Occult Symbols In Corporate Logos (Pt. 1): Rediscovering Their Ancient Magical Meaning - Richard Cassaro https://www.richardcassaro.com/sinist...

For a lot of his diamond examples, it's not really clear to me whether they are translations of the word for the symbol or the mineral.

The United Symbolism of America: Deciphering Hidden Meanings in America's Most Familiar Art, Architecture, and Logos

I wonder about Disneyland and its uses of symbolism.

James wrote: "I wonder about Disneyland and its uses of symbolism."

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/mkF3hCyxfys/hq...

Harry wrote: "James wrote: "I wonder about Disneyland and its uses of symbolism."

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/mkF3hCyxfys/hq..."

Am not sure what exactly I am looking at with that mirrored image, mate. But it doesn't look good!

It's a big face... perhaps.

Some charlatan called Harry Whitewolf mirrored the pic of the Disney castle.

Harry wrote: "Some charlatan called Harry Whitewolf mirrored the pic of the Disney castle."

Ah, the Whitewolf mystery...That's the real conspiracy right there!

Codex Magica: Secret Signs, Mysterious Symbols, and Hidden Codes of the Illuminati

Michael Tsarion *CLASSIC** Use of Sacred Symbolism In Modern Times

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btQmC...

Elite's Esoteric Symbols http://elitesesotericsymbols.blogspot...