Support for Indie Authors discussion

Hi, As a reader, I look at reviews before buying, or even before downloading free books. I'm an amazon.com person since 1999, so that is where I get books and look at reviews. Since I started on GoodReads, I also look at reviews there, but it is secondary to me.

When I am thinking of buying, as long as there are about 10 reviews, I feel like I have the information I need. I prefer to go by what is said in reviews that say "verified purchase" because the ARC reviews are from super-fans and maybe lean more to loving the author than the average reviewer.

After all that build up, how many reviews does an author perceive they need to improve sales? Are there other reasons you need a lot of reviews, and how many?

My reason for asking, besides just rampant curiosity, is that writing reviews takes time and thought. Starting a couple months ago, when I got onto GR and saw how important it is, I always review books I got for free, whether from an ARC, gift, or bought for free. But if I paid for an ebook, and the book has more than about 25 reviews, I only rate (unless my love needs expression). Am I failing in my moral duty to support Indi-authors?

P.S. Let me know if I should move this to another folder, if I can move it to another folder.

We all love great reviews, but I'm sure there's no set number of reviews for selling a book. In fact, my best seller by far has no reviews, just one rating on Goodreads, while my other books have good to great reviews and don't sell as well, if at all. A fixed number of reviews are required before you can advertise your book on certain websites, or to get a review by a professional blogger, but that's the only requirement I know of. On the other hand, most of us view unfailingly great reviews with suspicion, and even if it's a verified buyer there is still the chance that the review was bought. As far as Indie vs. traditionally published authors are concerned, Indies need all the good reviews they can get. And would my own book benefit from good reviews, and get a sales kick upward?—difficult to say until it happens.

Diana wrote: "Hi, As a reader, I look at reviews before buying, or even before downloading free books. I'm an amazon.com person since 1999, so that is where I get books and look at reviews. Since I started on Go..."

Glad you asked that question Diana! I am pouring my energy into review swaps now to get those reviews you mention. I was also wondering when you can ease up on those. Thanks for asking!

Steve King :)

Marie wrote: "Preference for reading reviews and how many reviews is obviously different for each person - I don't personally care about reviews, only sample chapters. But I have heard that amazon's promotional ..."

Now that is valuable information Marie---and very interesting! thanks for that! Steve

Marie wrote: "Preference for reading reviews and how many reviews is obviously different for each person - I don't personally care about reviews, only sample chapters. But I have heard that amazon's promotional ..."

That is exactly the kind of thing I was wondering about. I think I read from someone that lists like Bookbub only list books with a certain number of reviews, but maybe they look at the number of reviews for an author, otherwise they wouldn't promote new books.

Well, I'm trying to put out a Zombie Apocalypse book, but I want it to have 100 reviews before it releases. 50 is about what I've heard from "Sources" as well, though admittedly none of them are Amazon sources.

Jeez you guys----how do you get all those reviews? I am imagining doing review swaps for the next five years!!

Nah Steve, what you can do is search for reviewers such as myself here in the group we are a few but we always spread the word

For me, organic reviews mean more. As a reader, I look for books without reviews because I know there are others out there who have a good product that isn't being seen because they don't have the resources to market. If I find one that looks well written, I buy and review. There are a lot more of these out there than you would think.

Personally, as an author, I don't go looking for reviews. It may mean that I'm losing sales, it may not. No way of knowing unless I was able to put the same book out twice; one copy with hundreds of reviews and one with none.

Joselyn wrote: "Nah Steve, what you can do is search for reviewers such as myself here in the group we are a few but we always spread the word "

Joselyn---we have emailed before. Sure, I have a 245 page multi-cultural trans-Pacific drama; a 30-page children's story about the adventures of a young girl and her pet mice; and a 52-page story about a hapless employee and his work computer who turns against him. If any of those sound interesting, would love your review. Could do a review swap in about a month. thx!! Steve

Christina wrote: "For me, organic reviews mean more. As a reader, I look for books without reviews because I know there are others out there who have a good product that isn't being seen because they don't have the ..."

Wish more people had your approach to it Christina.

Marie wrote: "Preference for reading reviews and how many reviews is obviously different for each person - I don't personally care about reviews, only sample chapters. But I have heard that amazon's promotional ..."

I wish I remembered to read sample chapters more. I don't know why I don't think of it.

I always start with the bad reviews, if there are any that tell me something. A lot of 1 star and 2 star reviews don't say why. Sometimes I decide to buy because the "bad" review intrigued me. This isn't actually rare.

Christina wrote: "For me, organic reviews mean more. As a reader, I look for books without reviews because I know there are others out there who have a good product that isn't being seen because they don't have the ..."

That sounds great, Christina, how do you search for them? Sometimes I start from a book I like and look for the category links at the bottom and go to the top 100 and top 100 free pages, but it doesn't show a bunch. Just browsing genres also gives me the most popular.

I follow certain authors, and watch what my friends are reading and I'm in a couple facebook groups.

As reader, I ignore reviews until I've read the sample. At that, I may check out the review. For nonfiction, reviews can be more important, if the reviewer has some expertise with the subject.

As a writer, my thoughts on reviews are in that other thread: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

As an analyst: the bottom line is that reviews don't sell books. Selling books generates reviews. For new authors, the correlation between sales on Amazon and the number of reviews is either 0 or perhaps even slightly negative.

I am actually glad to hear that Owen.

Christina wrote: "Personally, as an author, I don't go looking for reviews. It may mean that I'm losing sales, it may not. No way of knowing unless I was able to put the same book out twice; one copy with hundreds of reviews and one with none. ..."

Echoing what I said above, there is a way to know, if only in a general sense: check out books by new authors on Amazon that have been out for 3 months or less. Look at the number of reviews and the overall rating, then try to predict the sales ranking based on the that.

When I've done that (as above) I think I see a weak correlation that having more reviews results in lower sales. To the extent I see this, I attribute it (partly) to review inflation.

Marie wrote: "But I have heard that amazon's promotional algorithms change when you hit fifty reviews..."

Interesting! Do you recall where you heard that? (I hadn't heard that.) Roughly speaking, it appears (based on what I know and have heard elsewhere) that only about 1 in 100 buyers write a review, so that would imply 50 reviews equates to around 5,000 sales. Obviously Amazon knows exactly how many copies a book has sold, so they don't need to use reviews as a proxy, but I'm wondering if they do change their behavior based on a book hitting ~5000 copies sold (which would make sense).

Diana wrote: "That sounds great, Christina, how do you search for them?"

I have a very complex system that I refuse to disclose, but I can say that to find the books without reviews, I do a search that is as specific as possible and then jump to the end of the last page and work my way back. Another way is to search the free books. I tend to search free that are also KU eligible because I know that the freebie is temporary and I'd rather give my review knowing they stand to make money on the book at some point.

Christina wrote: "Diana wrote: "That sounds great, Christina, how do you search for them?"

I have a very complex system that I refuse to disclose, but I can say that to find the books without reviews, I do a search..."

Very interesting, I didn't think about it that free books that are on KU are going to change the price. I'll have to try more specific searches.
Thanks for your help.

Diana wrote: "Am I failing in my moral duty to support Indie-authors?..."

Sincere and thoughtful are a great (and rare) gift to any author, but I don't think you have any moral duty to review a work. For one thing, just buying a book increases its visibility. The "also bought" lists are a primary means by which book get visibility, and a sale help with that. But leaving a review should not be an obligation.

Firstly Diana, thank you! Your hard work of reviewing is much appreciated.

We indies need reviews; it's our bread and butter.It's the best way for our books to creep up the ranks and slowly get noticed.

There's so few avenues for getting these.
Slowly over the past 2 years I've seen more review sites for indies, but certainly to start I kept hitting brick walls; so many people have been sadly put off by bad indie books.

As to quantity; we can never have enough.
My own stance is; the more the merrier. I personally read and cherish every review I get. If you like it rate it. Simples.

So, carry on reviewing.
:-)

Thanks everyone for responding to my question. It just adds to my awareness that authors appreciate reviews.

I hope the discussion has been helpful to others, as well.

Rob wrote: "Regarding reviews, its not the quantity that counts IMHO but the type and the quality..."

I agree these are very good points. To the extent writers give each other feedback as writers, it helps us write better. But that's not the same thing as telling (or showing) people whether they'd enjoy the book.

As one readers opinion - especially for indie books - I won't grab a random self-published novel without a couple dozen reviews to its credit. I have a different policy for review requests since I understand an author is building a presence but "walking in off the street" I need an assurance a book is being read and has a decent reaction.

My reason for saying 20-something being a good starting off point is it means a few are likely to be reviews from readers who weren't given a copy or friends and family praising it. I'm fine with free copy reviews but I generally take 3-4 star ones most seriously since they are weighing the merits and flaws in reasonable way.

Rob wrote: "Regarding reviews, its not the quantity that counts IMHO but the type and the quality.
Regarding the type: Hopefully most of our prospect readers aren't writers. With starting authors joining revi..."

I am evaluating my reviewing skills by my "helpful" votes on amazon.com reviews. I also asked a couple authors to look at a few of my reviews to see if, from an author's point of view, they are useful to them. Of course, on amazon, my reviews are not all on books. So far, my shorter reviews get more "helpful" votes, also the ones where I mentioned more about my own emotional response to the book--Did I like the characters, etc. That is probably because I am reading/reviewing mostly romance, erotica, paranormal romance right now. Those are more intended to strike an emotional response in the reader than an intellectual response.

On GoodReads, I seldom get likes on my reviews, but I use the same review on GR as I do on amazon.

When I am reading reviews while deciding to buy the type of book I am reading now, I also look more at the reviews that describe the reader's feelings about the book, rather than ones that only mention how well-written it is.