THE Group for Authors! discussion

There is no way to do this unless it's an obvious attack. However, I did check out the reviewer in question and she very clearly states:

Things I don't like:
SPAM! PS. If you are an author and I've read your book or shelved it nicely I don't mind you contacting me. Contacting me if I haven't pisses me off. I will flag your little spam and put you on the Hormel of hell shelf!..Since posting this I've had to set my pm's to friends only because of the amount of spam.

So, I think this is fair warning to authors to always research readers before contacting them with an unsolicited request.

I just saw one star bombs on an author's book. It's very sad when a bunch of people drop one stars instantly over something the author had said. Reviews are for people who read the book, not mobs who want to get back at an author for one reason or another. I don't see this often, but when I do, it makes me very upset.

1) there is absolutely no requirement on GR for users to have read a book before rating/reviewing. Many reasons for this, and MANY threads on this subject you can search out to get smarter on. (And as an aside, amazon actually has the same policy for their reviews--customers do not need to have 'experience of the product' in order to review.) Ultimately, you/we have no idea whether anyone ever has read a particular book for sure.

2)you should be careful with review solicitations via PM. Regardless of how polite you are, what you are doing is spam. Some people react better than others but it's a crapshoot on your part. GR policy is a little squishy on this, but if enough people report you for spam you could be on the road to losing your Author privileges. Check out the various guidelines and FAQs GR offers authors.

@A.A.

I can't see dropping random review request as being very productive. Many people will be annoyed by it and others may simply not like something about your book and give a one star out of hand.

What I did was to find groups in GR that feature your genre and join them. Then I spent time getting to know the people there and participating in the conversations. Eventually I identified individuals who might be interested in my work and I PM'ed them with an offer of a free book with no requirement for a review. In general the reaction was positive and I did get good and thoughtful reviews from them.

I've come across people who use the rating system to remind themselves whether they wish to read a book or not. its up to them how they use the star system. Aggravating beyond belief for the receiving author, but there's nothing we can do about it and it just comes across as needy or nasty if we mention it.

My sympathies are with A.A. here. True, you should check people's profiles or blog submission policies before contacting them, and make sure they haven't asked not to be approached. Otherwise it is technically spam, even if that wasn't your intention. I am careful about this myself. Even so, the guy could have politely declined, or just ignored, the request. Also, Goodreads doesn't require that you've read a book before you review it - but surely it is common decency to do so.

There was a similar case not long ago that actually drew my attention to a book, and I was sufficiently intrigued to read it. It was great and I gave it five stars (it was Dana Mazur's Almaty-Transit). So don't worry too much!

Meanwhile, A.A., check out the Goodreads Review Group and, if you're interested, join us in a review round. You'll be asked to review four books, and in turn four people will review yours (different people; the reviews are non-reciprocal and genuine). The group front page is here: https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/...

Good luck.

A.A. wrote: "Well, live and learn. I guess. Thank you all for your comments and feedback. I will try V.W.'s suggestion, even though I was being selective in my requests for reviews.

I didn't know that a user c..."

I didn't know that you could review or rate a book without reading it. I know it's done, but I thought GR disapprove of it. How can a reader know if the review has any weight if the reviewer never read the book? I read reviews after I read a book anyway. No one ever likes what I like to read.

As a reader - spam is annoying and I don't want to know an author has checked me out for the sole purpose of getting me to review their book. I find it a very entitled attitude and quite annoying. If you PM me with spam - you just made my DO-NOT-READ list.

As a new author but experienced reader on this site, I would never ask for a review. This is a reader site - not a place to pump up your sales. I will gladly give copies to anyone who requests them, but I will not solicit reviews from friends or strangers. That's just plain tacky. IMHO my book has to stand on its own or die trying.

Christine - I agree spam is annoying and I loathe getting it from anyone and tend not to respond to most. That said, I get requests for reviews from publishers nearly every week, so it may be tacky, but apparently it's something publishers, big and small, feel they need to do to get their books into the hands of bloggers.

A.A. wrote: "Well, live and learn. I guess. Thank you all for your comments and feedback. I will try V.W.'s suggestion, even though I was being selective in my requests for reviews.

I didn't know that a user c..."

When your selection criteria were solely related to stuff that would benefit you, I think it is an overstatement to call that "selective". Instead of actually researching the individuals to whom you were going to send spam, you decided that you wanted this reviewer to review your book (#3 top review, 511 friends) and you actively ignored the reviewer's preference. Your selection process was focused on your motives, instead of on the reviewer's parameters.

It is rude, self-centered and discouraged by GR.

Imagine what would happen if every person who published a book in your genre deluged that same popular reviewer's inbox with review requests. Instead of looking at it only from your perspective, perhaps you should try it from the perspective of the reviewer.

Some informative links for authors that Goodreads provides:

https://www.goodreads.com/author/guid...

https://www.goodreads.com/help/show/4...

And about negative reviews:

https://www.goodreads.com/help/show/2...

A.A. wrote: "Thanks for your reply. However, it wasn't spam. "

Actually, it is spam, i.e... an unsolicited request for someone to consume what you are selling. That is spam.

I don't agree with the 1-star rating, but I think you will find better luck joining groups and promoting your book in authorized areas. Be sure to thoroughly read guidelines of each group, as they vary. Not all groups allow self promotions, and the ones that do often heavily restrict it to certain areas of the group.

Keep in mind that people who join goodreads do so to interact with other readers, not to get solicitations. And that reviewer clearly had a 'no solicitation' type of rule posted.

A.A. wrote: "Thanks for your reply. However, it wasn't spam. I did research her and very courteously mentioned books that she had enjoyed and asked her if she would be interested in mine.

I don't believe that ..."

Spam is in the eye of the beholder.

(It's also considered poor form to rate your own books--just a head's up.)

Best of luck with your book. :-)

Brina wrote: "I didn't know that you could review or rate a book without reading it. I know it's done, but I thought GR disapprove of it. How can a reader know if the review has any weight if the reviewer never read the book? "

One rating by someone you don't know doesn't really mean all that much, so it wouldn't tell me much of anything regarding how much I might enjoy the book, whether the person rating had read it or not. So, I don't consider a rating by someone I don't know having any weight at all. Unless it's in combination with a review that I might find helpful.

A review when a person hasn't read a book is easier, unless they're attempting to deceitfully try to appear they've read it. That happens sometimes for positive reviews, but I don't think I've ever seen one for a negative review.

You could always go full Saccoccio on them, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Sorry, A.A., but your research was faulty. If a GR member even hints at not welcoming unsolicited review requests, I'd back out of the room.

There are groups that organize 'Read & Review' sessions, just as there are groups hungry of ARCs, or beta-reading.

And there are various author groups where you can get informed on the proper use of a reader(!) community like GR or Booklikes.

I have a longstanding policy to offer one of my e-books for free to friends and followers, but that is only after they expressed interest in me (by sending a friend request). And I make sure to tell them there are no strings attached.

If someone reviews your book, they should do it out of enthusiasm for the book. Not as a favor to you.

Personally, my favorite method of encouraging reviewers is by adding this to the end of my books and stories:

Thank you for reading the Amsterdam Assassin Series.
For an independent author, gaining exposure relies on readers spreading the word, so if you have the time and inclination, please consider leaving a short review wherever you can.

And I put that at the end of a book, because many readers don't realize the power of their opinion. The wording is extremely important, as you don't want readers to feel obligated to do you a favor, but rather share their enthusiasm (or lack thereof) for the benefit of other readers.

Which is ultimately what a review is about.

A.A. write: "If any user is offended, they should contact Goodreads and report the offender. ",/I>

You really think that? If the reviewer had done that, GR would probably now be "reaching out" to you, to ensure you don't do it again.

If you want to contact potential reviewers, you are better off contacting them via their blog sites than here on GR (where, as has been pointed out, it is against the guidelines).

And reviewing a book by someone who is reviewing your book is suspect - it says to me you both want positive reviews, not honest reviews.

Hi, A.A.:

Well done! Don't worry...GR will take care of it.
Again, very best of luck.

A.A. wrote: "I've removed the rating, but the blank review is still there. How do I get rid of it permanently?..."

There is nothing wrong with a blank review. I added my own book to a shelf (My Books) and did NOT review or rate. The blank review is still there and affects nothing.

When you RATE your book - that rating is included in the average rating and there's the uncool part. It looks like you're trying to up your average. The rating is unprofessional and very tacky.

A blank review only indicates you've added the book to your library. This is a reader site and many of us use the library features.

A.A. wrote: "I've removed the rating, but the blank review is still there. How do I get rid of it permanently?"

If you check my page, you'll see that I used the review space for my books for re-posting author interviews available elsewhere on the internet (with credits, of course). That way, you're still using the space constructively.

You can also use the space to tell something about your book, but it's best to begin with the same sort of sentence I use:

I cannot review or rate my own work, so I'll use this space for something readers might be interested in... Reprints of blog interviews.

Have fun.

@A.A
It's not the potential reviewer you should've researched first, but read GoodRead's guidelines for authors and checked out GR's author/feedback section.
As some of the commentators had already pointed out, it is well within the GR user's right to rate a book hey haven't read.

A.A. wrote: "Fantastic idea, Martyn. Thank you."

You're welcome.

I share these with you and every other new author who is reading this topic, because it's in everybody's best interest to respect each other's boundaries.

I understand your desire to promote your work, and if that is unfamiliar territory, you might trip now and again.

Word-of-mouth and growing a fanbase are the most successful ways of building a career as a writer, but they're also slow to gather momentum. I've been writing for twenty years and publishing since 2012, but despite the quality of my work, I'm still slow at getting enough sales to make a living wage.

The thing I love the most, though, is the contact with readers. I've included my author email at the end of my book and it's in the heading of my blog, and I'm lucky in the sense that I receive a lot of positive feedback and unexpected fanmail. The idea that there are people who read all my books and are eagerly waiting on the fourth novel in the series is a bigger motivator than the financial rewards.

If your aim is to form enjoyable bonds with readers, don't think of them as sales targets, but as fellow travelers who might enjoy your stories. Don't pursue reviews, but cultivate a readership by making yourself available to your audience. And not just because they might buy your books, but to captivate them by telling them stories they haven't heard before. By creating characters that live in their imagination.

Don't turn the dream into a job.

@Martyn - You always say it so well. +1000

Thanks, Christine.

When I first came here, I wondered about the animosity between readers and authors (and authors among themselves), and I understand why some authors are discouraged by their peers to avoid GR. A community has its own culture and a new member would do well to study the culture before participating in a way that will alienate them from the people they're so desperate to reach.

It's not just a question of reading the rules or even adhering to them faithfully. It's about becoming part of a community. Not about seeing the community as gullible targets for sales techniques.

Martyn V. (aka Baron Sang-Froid) wrote: "Personally, my favorite method of encouraging reviewers is by adding this to the end of my books and stories:

Thank you for reading the Amsterdam Assassin Series.
For an independent author, gaining exposure relies on readers spreading the word, so if you have the time and inclination, please consider leaving a short review wherever you can."

Martyn, it is comments like that that made start reviewing in the first place. Well said.

On the flip side statements that come across as forceful, desperate, spammy and/or self-entitled will quickly turn me away from reviewing a book.

Great advice on how authors should deal with reviewers.

♡Karlyn P♡ wrote: "Great advice on how authors should deal with reviewers."

Thanks.

What I think is the most important issue is that authors should not be 'dealing' with reviewers. Reviewers are reviewing to give their opinion about a book to other readers, not to authors.

If they want to give authors a piece of their mind, it's called 'feedback' and sent directly to the author.

That doesn't mean authors shouldn't read reviews of their own books, but whether reviewers praise the book to the heavens or trample it in the mud, the opinion is not intended for the author.

I see three complaints by novice authors coming back every week:
- someone gave me a rating without a review and that is completely useless to me (guess what, it's not intended to be useful to you)
- someone gave me an average rating and a vague review that doesn't make sense to me (So?)
- someone gave me a low rating and scathing review, but it's obvious they don't understand my genius (guess what, maybe your genius is not apparent to your intended audience)

What I dislike most though, is the drama. "Someone gave me a low-rating and ruined my career!" Get a grip. If your career can be ruined by a 1-star rating, it probably wasn't much of a career anyway.

Your book is your baby until you send it out into the world by publishing it. By then, it should be able to stand on its own legs and fend for itself. If it can't, you published prematurely.

A.A. wrote: "Thanks for your reply. However, it wasn't spam. I did research her and very courteously mentioned books that she had enjoyed and asked her if she would be interested in mine...."

T.H. wrote: "...So, I think this is fair warning to authors to always research readers before contacting them with an unsolicited request.."

"Unsolicited" request (aka unsolicited contact from commercial interests) is the very definition of spam.

Just how else would you define spam? Hopefully not just by saying it ain't spam if you only sent one message (hey the latest Nigerian Prince and v*agra-pusher emails I got only sent me one message—at least from those particular accounts/addresses). Hopefully not by saying you carefully researched the market and only targeted the more likely prospects.

I would be shocked to hear any significant number of readers joined goodreads to have another inbox to clean out. To you it may have been a single polite request; to readers, (particularly top ranking reviewers or very active group participants) it's just one more annoyance from the hundreds of thousands of authors with same idea that we report for spam and delete wasting time rather spend doing other things. One more annoyance drowning out friend/followed messages if not deleted.

D.A — not one more promotion on my feed drowning out my friends puh-leeeeeese!!!! wrote: "T.H. wrote: "...So, I think this is fair warning to authors to always research readers before contacting them with an unsolicited request.."

"Unsolicited" request (aka unsolicited contact from commercial interests) is the very definition of spam. .."

I think there are some nuances there - I received a request from a GR friend to help them to review their new project, and while the request came 'out of the blue', I don't consider it spam.

If a non-friend contacts me about reviewing a book because they liike reviews I made, I don't consider that spam.

If I get review requests from strangers for books that are not even in my preferred genre, that's spam.

A.A. wrote: "IHow can I remove that false 1 star rating? Any help will be very appreciated. Thank you! ..."

Prove it's a false star rating and not an expression of dislike/disinterest in the book. If they did flag your commercial-use message as spam, support will probably just think the reader gave your book a 1-star rating to express their disinterest in ever reading your book. (Or a typo if from an app -- very easy to hit 1-star rating; possibly support would ask if accidental or deliberate rating if there was something like a rave review or other indication reader liked your book).

Otherwise, you need to prove it's against TOS -- like commercial use or spam from someone paid to one star your book by someone with a grudge against you or a competitor paying to ... lots of the paid services are quite public if you think that's what happened rather than reaction to more commercial-use messages, so public you could with very little research connect a paid account to a goodreads member if you suspect that.

Likely easier to get goodreads to remove a rating/review if you can prove a personal attack that went past just a rating on your book.

"False" can be awfully hard to prove when about someone's opinion. Commercial use is against goodreads TOS no matter what you interpreted from author guidelines. (Exception to commercial use made for disclosed "free for honest review" books.)

Mike wrote: "...Meanwhile, A.A., check out the Goodreads Review Group and, if you're interested, join us in a review round. You'll be asked to review four books, and in turn four people will review yours (different people; the reviews are non-reciprocal and genuine)..."

Goodreads does not allow those types of reviews, even if not direct swaps. They used to provided disclosed (FTC guidelines require disclosing any services received for a review); now they don't (my personal suspicion is that authors were not disclosing they were reviewing a book to get a service, a review, on their own book).

The most recent staff comment I saw confirming no review swaps is at https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

D.A — not one more promotion on my feed drowning out my friends puh-leeeeeese!!!! wrote: "Goodreads does not allow those types of reviews, even if not direct swaps. They used to provided disclosed (FTC guidelines require disclosing any services received for a review); now they don't (my personal suspicion is that authors were not disclosing they were reviewing a book to get a service, a review, on their own book)."

Not just that, but what many authors don't understand is that they're doing their book a disservice by having the review section filled with unctuously flattering reviews that are obviously bought.

Meanwhile, beyond a certain point, getting reviews is not important. Having less than, say, five reviews, might make readers wonder why your book is not that popular, but if you have more than fifty reviews, most of them won't be read anyway.

D.A — not one more promotion on my feed drowning out my friends puh-leeeeeese!!!! wrote: "A.A. wrote: "Thanks for your reply. However, it wasn't spam. I did research her and very courteously mentioned books that she had enjoyed and asked her if she would be interested in mine...."

T.H...."Actually, there are readers on GR are state they are open to being contacted by an author, which isn't an actual solicitation for contact, but rather a willingness to consider it. I stand by my statement. That said, I think there are much better ways for authors to spend their very limited marketing time.

T.H. wrote: "...there are readers on GR are state they are open to being contacted by an author, ..."

Yes. And they often state that both on their profiles and in various group threads (usually also specifying what contact they are interested in and how they want to be contacted).

Doesn't change the definition of spam as unsolicited commercial contact.

It really spoils it for other authors when an author sends spam (even "targeted marketing" researched spam). Sure spoils it for the readers stuck with overloaded inboxes or moderators stuck deleting the crap appearing against group guidelines or on inappropriate threads. Works much better if authors promote in their own spaces and appropriate group threads--and pay attention to what readers willing/unwilling to be contacted by authors are saying.

By "contact," of course, I mean commercial interest contact about their books. Authors as friends/followed/followers and fellow readers are fine.

It's not that uncommon for readers to think an author must be very bad at writing a book if they are that bad at reading a blogger's submission guidelines, a marketing target's profile, a contact request/invite in a group thread ...

At least it doesn't sound like a case of an author issuing a friend request just to get around inbox privacy settings, increase follower statistics or because they think that means they cannot get flagged for spam -- that really gets on my last nerve; . (Unless I got creeped me out by an adult author sending friend requests to 13-year olds with no choice of a private profile -- then at least the friend request to spam is likely just spam rather than something more sinister so is slightly less annoying but still gets flagged and blocked).

The way some authors mishandle it -- frequently readers who were wiling to be contacted with commercial-interest stuff will change their minds. Sometimes newbie authors remind me of teenagers discovering sex -- they think they are the only ones who have made that discovery (in author's case discovered they can see the top reviewers on sites like amazon and goodreads and the only ones clever enough to use them as marketing targets while any submission guidelines or "don't..." settings are somehow not for them anymore than a site's tos and spam rules).

Spam is unsolicited commercial contact.