Rothfussians discussion

:)

Pagan rituals, pears, D's knowledge

Denise wrote: "I have been re-reading some chapters and a few more things jump out at me, all of them leaving me more confused than before:
- Bredon goes on this pretty long spill about how sometimes people are ..."

The Ctheah said her patron beats her with a cane. Bredon does have a cane. Bredon is also very protective of his identity.

I'm not sure the mention of the elder heir leaving their duties applies to the modern Lackless family.


It definitely applies to the current Lackless Family. (view spoiler)[ Meluan excuses Kvothe from there services upon finding out he is a Ruh because her sister was "kidnapped" by Ruh (hide spoiler)] What you believe about the circumstances of that occurance is subjective though. A lot of people see it as clear evidence for the theory that (view spoiler)[ Laurian is Natalia however (hide spoiler)]

I wouldn't call it definitive but it's a good basis.

Personally, I'm holding out for Maer Alveron as both Kvothe and Denna's patron. Just in case I haven't said that 60 times now in this forum. LOL.

I am being won over by the Maer Alveron theory. Afterall, he does put a lot of stock in geneology which goes with what Denna says about her patron's interests. I am now even more confused about Bredon's identity. The tak scene where he shows Kvothe it is all about the beauty of the game played and the conversation on dual roles really jumped out at me during my re-read, far more so than the first time through. The wait is soooo, very frustrating for me. This is precisely why I try not to start series until they are through or until the next to last book is done. Of course, I chose Kingkiller Chronicles and A Song of Ice and Fire to be the exceptions to that rule. I make bad decisions sometimes.

Yah, a lot of people actually don't like it when I mention Alveron as patron, but what can I say. I think it fits.

The timeline for Alveron's illness and Master Ash's multimonth disapperance match up as closely as anyone can figure out.
He has greying hair.
His dancing abilities are debatable.
He definitely has the cane AND it's a new edition.
He has the garden's that include Ash Trees.

Plus Denna all but refuses to believe Kvothe when he tells her who is patron is. So, I dont know. Definitely interesting.

Anywho, some people do think that Bredon is actually Meluan's father and ultimately, in that line thinking, Kvothe's Grandfather.

For those considering the Maer consider also his frame role as the Penitant King.

The severn section is a neat little lit trick.

K continously compares his time there/fears to a play of the dodgy doctor fellow (I forget his name- a plant?). The scenes in court are presented very much like a play (think Medici). Then there is the game of tak which is very much akin to stage directs/plot movements.

The chracters represent different narrative threads of the greater context.

Amyr/Tehlins- The Maer- The Penitant King

Yliish (knowers?)- Meluan Lackless- The Lockless Box

(Chandrian)Dagon- Cinder -Folly?

Faen- Bredon- Master Ash

Namers- K

Uni- The dodgy wizard guy (soz)- caricature of modern arcanist's reach (important impact upon a civil war there if say, one faction happens to have an arcanist called Ambrose at the head with his acess to arrowcatches ect (and skraelings? Did Bast share Faen magic when at the uni with K? He saw Imre after all)and his great wealth.)

The ruarch- Stapes- the people/the great unwashed/the proletariat


Calanthis- King Killed- Red & Gold- the turning point and culmation of K's actions.

Mmmmm, that does leave D with Aelph & the Singers/Tehlu & Pals. With her voice like liqueid silver. And we have whitnessed her act in the manner perscribed by Aelph. She rewarded K and the sad pretty boy in Imre (Gregory? Geoffry?). She punished the rapist. She offered reward to the girl far from home. A tough reward yes, but reward none the less. And what song does she sing there? ;) Rather than be an one of the infamous seven I think it is curious to consider the parthenogenesis theory here, via her in text similarity to Meluan and the Lackless. With the matriarchal reputation and lineage stretching back to the CW. From whence the Adem fled with their beliefs. Then there is Perial, First Lock reborn from a line of his own making? Or perhaps Menda and K were both mystical flukes: male first borns of the Locleos line...

A matter of genetic heritage maybe. Red hair, green eyes. Recessive genes. And PR's cackled and cried veritas on that :)Did Menda also have red hair?

These expressions are associated with power of a mystical sort. Yllish knots, the Lethani, knowing all songs. The timeline mapped to preCW via Ceasura.

Which leads to the dark knot of what Iax did, of the origins of the elder players. Of the creation of Fane and the subsequent repression of those genes. Until we get limping arcanists and knacks. And the Flood...the clamour that sends the Rookery in chaos when the moon is full, when Faen is close?

And here the Machiavelli, the CTH. Perhaps not imprisoned at all, but banqueting. Is that the CTHs motivation? A hunger to rival the nothings? What the of that almost awake dark there? Is that Aelph dreaming?

Ok, that was long winded, ha. Haven't indulged in some KKC convo for awhile.

Oh I will also add that it does amuse me how flagrantly sex is used as a foil.

And how well it works.

Some really cool theories not sure about Bredon being Denna's patron as many people have said it's a bit convenient although it might be a little bit that I liked the character and don't want him to be either way it doesn't seem quite right to me. My theory is that he is actually one of the Amyr, would account for his caution and knowledge with names and also may tie up with the "pagan rituals". Discuss!

thistlepong wrote: "Jason wrote: "Not sure how you figure Denna being Netalia as she is supposed to be the eldest Lackless (Her leaving made Meluan the heir), therefore older than Meluan. Seems kind of impossible it's..."

I'm rereading through WMF and the conversation between Kvothe and Denna on pgs 97-98 jumped out at me (1st ed hb). I can see two different takes not the passages: either she was not nobility/wealthy, or perhaps she is complaining about it but Rothfuss is leaving the words vague enough that it could go either way.

"It's strange to think some people live their whole lives like this," she mused.

..."And I hate knowing someone is set to guard me! like I'm a treasure someone might try to steal."

..."I don't fancy being under lock and key,"...

Overall when I first read it it seemed like proof she hadn't been from a wealthy or noble family, certainly not Meluan's sister. But then how many rich people have we heard about rebelling against their lives. So now I'm more conflicted!

I know she is rather desperate for a patron. Is bred on the type to keep her under lock and key? Would she be willing to deal with that for financial security?

What about how Denna's patron lets her know he is near? That would require magic or sympathy and Alveron doesn't show any knack for those. Considering she likes the name Master Ash I think that is her patrons sign.

I like the thought that Bradon is Amyr.