Madam, want to talk about author Mary Stewart? discussion

Please discuss the events of chapters 6-9. Please mark spoilers with spoiler tags.

End of Chapter 8 An unexpected revelation about Mr. Forrest!

Chapter 9 is pretty intense, so I decided to readjust the discussion threads.

Chapter 9 was the first place where (view spoiler)[I actually considered the idea that Mary Grey really is Annabel. (hide spoiler)]

End of Chapter 7.

Anyone else (view spoiler)[fall a little in love with Donald during tea while he serreptitiously fed the misnamed Tommy the cat under the sofa with the sandwiches? I've had cats do a very similar thing, and it was just a funny, throw-away moment that told alot about a secondary character. I really enjoyed that. (hide spoiler)]

I enjoyed that scene, too!

Donald's my favourite character so far.

End of chapter 6.

Mrs. Stewart is playing with my mind! (view spoiler)[ As Mary is talking with Con down by the horse pasture, the grey mare drools grass stains down the front of Con's shirt.

"Trying not to laugh, I ran a hand up to her forelock, and with the other hand held her gently by the muzzle"

Mary seems to be quite comfortable with the mare. Maybe it really is Annabel. But on the next page as Mary is walking to Forrest Hall,

"You could have easily missed the summerhouse if you didn't know where it was ...I had gone straight by it"

So did Mary not know where the summerhouse was and she really isn't Annabel?? Mrs. Stewart sure has me wondering. (hide spoiler)]

It's interesting to see these "clues" that I missed. (view spoiler)[I really don't suspect anything at this point. But she certainly reacted quite differently to the mare this time, as opposed to when she was with Grandfather. (hide spoiler)]

Hannah wrote: "End of Chapter 7.

Anyone else [spoilers removed]"

Absolutely. Very skilful to flesh out a character like that while also advancing the plot with the main action going on at the same time.

End of Chapter 7.

Like others, (view spoiler)[ I found this scene with Donald very funny. With lines like:

"From under the edge of this crept a stealthy, black and white paw..."

"Won't you have another sandwich, Mr. Seton? These are crab. They-er, go down rather well."

The whole scene was so amusing, and then ending with Donald saying, "Have a macaroon."

Love the way MS lets this scene play out while the conversation in the room continues, like others have stated. Donald is a good guy in my book, so far anyway. (hide spoiler)]

End of Chapter 9.

I've wondered about (view spoiler)[ Mary's voice since this impersonation was hatched and now it is finally addressed. I really don't know what to make of chapter 9, Mary admits to not being Annabel rather quickly, I thought! (hide spoiler)]

Jeannette wrote: "Chapter 9 was the first place where [spoilers removed]"

Was there one thing in particular in chapter 9 that made you consider the possibility that (view spoiler)[ Mary might be Annabel? (hide spoiler)]

Diane Lynn wrote: "Jeannette wrote: "Chapter 9 was the first place where [spoilers removed]"

Was there one thing in particular in chapter 9 that made you consider the possibility that [spoilers removed]"

Her response/reaction to (view spoiler)[seeing Adam was too raw, angry, emotional to have come from someone who had just learned that these two were supposed to have been lovers. If I remember correctly, she didn't give him much time to say anything before she lit into him. With everyone else she let them do the talking. And Adam was at first blasted, then stunned, and then angry, and decided this hard-hearted woman could not be the Annabel he carried in his heart for 8 years. (hide spoiler)]

Jeannette wrote: "Diane Lynn wrote: "Jeannette wrote: "Chapter 9 was the first place where [spoilers removed]"

Was there one thing in particular in chapter 9 that made you consider the possibility that [spoilers re..."

I see want you mean and hadn't thought of it like that. However, (view spoiler)[ this scene made me rethink my view of Mary/Annabel as one person. I thought if Annabel was so in love with Adam, even left town because of him, that she would (if M and A are one and the same) want to start up with him again. But if Mary isn't Annabel then she wouldn't want to start up with him because it would be too dangerous to her plan, surely he would know the difference. Plus the voice difference. Now I think they aren't the same person and I have been barking up the wrong tree! (hide spoiler)]

At this point, I agree with you. (view spoiler)[I still believe she is Mary Grey and not Annabel. I suppose she used anger to push Adam away because you can fake anger better than tenderness. (hide spoiler)]

However it turns out, it sure is fun getting there:)

It sure is!

Kim wrote: "Donald's my favourite character so far."

Yes, mine too. I was hoping he and Mary would end up together but I think he is very much Julie's :-(.

Jemidar wrote: "Yes, mine too. I was hoping he and Mary would end up together but I think he is very much Julie's :-(."


I initially thought that they could end up together, which would be a great, but I agree, it doesn't seem that likely. However, (view spoiler)[ I am more and more convinced that Mary is Annabel. If I'm wrong about that, then that will be the twist in the novel for me! (hide spoiler)]

I'm pretty sure you are right.

Kim wrote: "Donald's my favourite character so far."

Yes! The scene in the drawing room was absolutely perfect and I fell hard for the guy (and the cat).

Mary/Annabel and horses seem part of the key to the mystery. The scene with Grandfather in Ch. 5 could be read as fear of riding, but there are other ways to interpret it.

Anybody else feel a little sorry for Lisa Dermott? The literary banter between M/A and Con seems to put her in her 'place' as a basically uneducated poor relation.

I agree, I thought Lisa was pitiful but her jealousy and spitefulness maker her very unlikable. MS makes her seem a very believable character.

Lisa is pretty much cold-hearted about everyone but Con, and that's what makes her believable but not likable, I think, Helen!

That whole scene with Tommy the cat in chapter 7 is one of my favorite scenes in any Mary Stewart book.

I just finished chapter 9: (view spoiler)[I'd forgotten how intense that scene with Adam was. (hide spoiler)]

I'm a few pages into Chapter 7 now so I will be looking for Tommy!

Something about the flowers and plants that get described in this book: I don't know what most of them look like, yet I never make myself stop to look them up so I can have a better mental picture of the scenes they are in. MS spends so much time lovingly creating detailed pictures of the gardens around the estate, and I just imagine GREEN and FLOWERS and let it go at that. I should be ashamed of my lazy self! When I read this again I will have a botany book handy! =))

Debbie wrote: "Something about the flowers and plants that get described in this book: I don't know what most of them look like, yet I never ma..."

Yes, you should! And you should post the pictures in our threads for the rest of us lazy people!

Ah, so I am not the only one? Hmmm....I don't feel so guilty now! =))

Oh, goodness, Chapter 7 is a hoot! (view spoiler)[Between 'Con's overwhelming physical splendour', Grandfather Winslow wanting to be center stage because after all, he is a Winslow male, and then Tommy and Donald.... (hide spoiler)] I don't know which part I liked the best! Too funny!!

Totally agree on chapter 7. Have you got to chapter 9 yet? It's really intense and emotional. I kept swinging round in my opinions of Mary--she seems genuinely afraid of Con and that's the only way I can see the interaction with (view spoiler)[Adam (hide spoiler)] as anything other than really cruel. Yet she does not seem like a cruel person in other scenes. ch. 9 clues (view spoiler)[I'm also still not sure about the identity thing, even though ch. 9 would seem to clinch it. Adam seems to see her as changed in some way that he can't quite articulate, and then when she tells him that she's an imposter he accepts that as the truth. Still it's all very dark and dim--literally and figuratively! (hide spoiler)]

Annabel's old garden in Chapter 5 is a total mess and Mary sees that it's a mess, which is rather interesting. "Lupine had run wild, all the gay colors faded back to their pristine blue; peonies crouched sullenly under the strangling bushes of fuchsia and flowering currant, and everywhere ivy, bindweed and rose-bay willow herb were joyously completing their deadly work."

This is a picture of rose-bay willow weed taking over. You can also see currant running wild and the brownish blossom in front left is probably the dreaded dock weed.

Here are lupines mixed with campion (another flower MS mentions earlier). Lupines can be bred to have multiple colors, but when they grow wild they self-seed and revert to the normal blue.

This is a badly overgrown currant bush in bloom.

And worst of all, here is bindweed growing in among currant or raspberry vines. Bindweed climbs everything, winding around other plants. It is nearly impossible to eradicate.

Any real gardener would be itching to tackle this mess. I wonder if Mary/Annabel will be a able to resist? If she's really Annabel she'll be out there soon.

Hana asked: "Have you got to chapter 9 yet? "

YES!! I finished that chapter last night, thanks to not being able to sleep...sometimes insomnia is a good thing! I could not believe how easily she (view spoiler)[ confessed to not being Annabel. The whole scene with Adam was 'hold my breath turn the pages hurry up and see what will happen next'. I don't think she really IS Annabel, unless she is with some sort of amnesia going on or going something so that she herself doesn't know she is Annabel....gee, that just popped into my head. Wonder if anything in future chapters will prove that wild idea? (hide spoiler)] As I read I can remember reading this years and years ago but no details show up in my pea brain so it is great fun for me.

Thanks for all these lovely pictures! And yes, any real gardener would have been hip deep in the overgrowth in a heartbeat! Makes me want to dive in myself, and I am merely a Garden Slave....HA!!

We get tons of bindweed in Utah, but I didn't realize it was in Great Britain. Is there anywhere it doesn't grow? It's my most despised weed.

Thanks so much for the pictures, Hana! It really helps to visualize this better.

Debbie, I thought about (view spoiler)[ amnesia as a possibility as well. There was that accident, after all. But I don't know, she seems to be so clever and deliberate about everything, even when she's close to panic as in Chapter 9. But then, what is she really afraid of here? I don't quite get why it's so important that Adam not come courting? Maybe it's just one complication too many. (hide spoiler)] I'm tying myself up in mental bindweed knots trying to figure out the motivations in this chapter :D Will have to revisit after I finish, which at the rate I'm going should be tonight!

Hana wrote: "And worst of all, here is bindweed growing in among currant or raspberry vines. Bindweed climbs everything, winding around other plants. It is nearly impossible to eradicate.

"

Bindweed! The bane of my existence! Ok, maybe a bit dramatic, but that stuff is horrible. I poured boiling water on a few of my garden beds and it did help, but the roots can go down 20'!! I've heard that the University of Oregon has a "natural" biologic control coming out. Hopefully, in my lifetime!

Rereading Brat Farrar first this is suffering a little bit in comparison. But still very skilled writing.

& I seem to remember Bindweed was the bane of Miss Marple's life!

I didn't remember that!

Wow! Loved the intensity of chapter 9! (view spoiler)[ When Adam tells her to look in the moonlight and then she confesses. Interesting twist. Annabell has to be quick on her feet. (hide spoiler)] Way, way, way liking Adam. I like Julie too and Donald. Suddenly a whole new cast of characters in,the web of mystery.

The hints about what’s really going on are getting much broader—the horses especially.

Abigail wrote: "The hints about what’s really going on are getting much broader—the horses especially."

Are they? I think the hints about "what's really going on" are more to be found in the behavior of ALL the animals - not just the horses. Dogs and cats and horses. I think they lead to profoundly deeper unmaskings - revelations as to who people REALLY are - as well.

Well, I haven’t finished this section yet. I was thinking more about (view spoiler)[Mary Grey’s real identity (hide spoiler)] than about who’s a good guy and who’s a bad guy.

I keep vacillating on my opinion of whether or not she's the real Annabel. Chapter nine had me convinced until she confessed to Adam. If she's really Annabel I will like her more than if she's just Mary Grey the opportunist.

Anyhow, the book is great fun to read, with all the mystery about who Annabel/Mary really is. (view spoiler)[Adam was a huge surprise to me. I had no clue another man was involved in the disappearance of Annabel for eight years. Now I'm wondering about the baby. Was there one? If there was one, what happened to it and who was the father? (hide spoiler)]