THE Group for Authors! discussion

Does anyone have experience of setting up their own company to publish their own book? And if so, did you use a Formation Agent? Who did you use for marketing or did you do it all yourself?

Thoughts/advice very welcome!

A Formation Agent? Oh heck no. I did set up my own DBA (Doing Business As) as a publishing house in my town so that I can honestly say I have my own publishing house. It's just a simple personal business, not a corporation or anything. For now, I can use my SSN for taxes. If I want to upgrade to an EIN, that's easy too. I've been a consultant for years so that's a personal business for me as well.

I do my own marketing at this time. If I start to sell more (or come into a large sum of money) I may look at larger marketing. One thing I did do was send ARCs of my books to places like SFSite and Locus Magazine--the latter offered me advertising rates that were reasonable for as big a magazine as that is. I'm planning to do it at some point.

I had an existing LLC for my writing and editing business, so I simply used that. In most states, it's very easy to set up an LLC. I'd definitely recommend it if you plan to publish a lot of books (or expect to make a lot of money!).

Are you in the US?
In the UK you can register as a self-employed individual and list your business type as author/publisher. Very simple.

Rosen, I'm in the UK. I did look at that option, but i have a full- time job and am a little nervous about setting myself up as partly self-employed just yet - and the government website makes it look anything but simple!

If anyone out there can tell me how they did it, that might help!

Thanks everyone, for your replies so far - really appreciate your taking the time!

You could try calling the Newly Self-Employed Helpline on 0845 915 4515

Even if you don't want to set up as self-employed just yet, they may be able to answer your questions.

(Source: http://search2.hmrc.gov.uk/kb5/hmrc/c...)

Thank you Rosen - I will do that!

Sorry, Elaine, I thought you were in the US. You can ignore my comment :)

Breaking News: Today's NY Times Front Page -- David Mamet joins the ranks of the self-published. The article covers ground that's been covered before, but not in the NY Times. Read it here...

I have just used a new book publishing tool called Press Books http://pressbooks.com It is excellent. Based on Wordpress, it has professional ebook templates and a very strong set of tools for arranging the front and back and chapters for the book.

It then exports into all the key formats making uploading on Kindle etc a breeze.

Oh and it's free!

Thanks for the tip, Robert. I'll definitely check that out. Right now I'm using five different programs to convert & edit everything! Sure would be nice to do it all in one...

K.A. wrote: "Thanks for the tip, Robert. I'll definitely check that out. Right now I'm using five different programs to convert & edit everything! Sure would be nice to do it all in one..."

I was doing the same. It also has ALL other key outputs too - so covers all the publishing bases.

Elaine, you can be full time employed and still register as self employed. In theory you have to pay NI on your income from the books but if it is likely to be under a certain amount you are exempt. You do have to pay tax though. I rang HMRC and they were really helpful, you can discuss it over the phone, they send you a form, which is easy to fill in, then you send it back and that is that. You get your number.

Robert wrote: "I have just used a new book publishing tool called Press Books http://pressbooks.com It is excellent. Based on Wordpress, it has professional ebook templates and a very strong set of tools for arra..."

I fiddled around with it a bit and learned lesson #1... don't copy and paste the entire book into the Main Body section. Bad. My laptop burst into flames.

Next, I'll read the instructions.

Robert...consider starting a separate thread on this.

Jon wrote: "Robert wrote: "I have just used a new book publishing tool called Press Books http://pressbooks.com It is excellent. Based on Wordpress, it has professional ebook templates and a very strong set of..."

Will do

Robert wrote: "I have just used a new book publishing tool called Press Books http://pressbooks.com It is excellent. Based on Wordpress, it has professional ebook templates and a very strong set of tools for arra..."

Thank you Robert - I will look into that. Although, having said that, I don't find Wordpress that easy to work on... but I will investigate, definitely.

Robert wrote: "Jon wrote: "Robert wrote: "I have just used a new book publishing tool called Press Books http://pressbooks.com It is excellent. Based on Wordpress, it has professional ebook templates and a very s..."

Can you post a link here to that thread, please? Thanks!

Alexandra wrote: "Elaine, you can be full time employed and still register as self employed. In theory you have to pay NI on your income from the books but if it is likely to be under a certain amount you are exempt..."

Thank you - I'll look into that!

Elaine wrote: "Robert wrote: "Jon wrote: "Robert wrote: "I have just used a new book publishing tool called Press Books http://pressbooks.com It is excellent. Based on Wordpress, it has professional ebook templat..."

It's in this thread still Elaine see a few posts above

I've seen lots of writers go back and forth over the issue of whether to publish or self-publish. NYT bestselling author Lorraine Bartlett (aka Lorna Barrett) makes the case that writers are best off combining the two. She also says she earns more from her self-pub'd work than her published novels. Came as a shock to me. Here's the interview. http://bit.ly/11pbn4O

I've done both, now. Going backwards from what most people do, I think: first couple were published by a publisher, second couple by me. From my experience, I'm beginning to think that unless you're with a really big publisher, it's not worth it.

KA, good to hear from someone who's tried both. I think big publishers offer great advantages, including serious review attention, library sales, big-box stores and bookstore placement; savvy professionals on hand at every step along the way; money for good design; first-class editing and proof-reading; marketing pros; and in general more visibility.

But even in the big houses, not every writer gets pushed that hard, and smaller publishers offer less. If they're not doing much for the book but taking a hefty percentage of the sales, then you may well be right that going it alone is better.

I have set up my own company to publish my book, it is great for taxes. However, I had to hire an Editor, Designer and an illustrator. I have the PB and some of the ebook produce at Lightning source. I also have a contract direct with Kobo for my ebooks where I keep 70% of the book price. My only issue with going this way is the marketing of my book, I am not sure if to advertise and where. ALso I have been told that I should blog. However, I have no clue what to write in a blog. I will need to look at other authors blogs and see what they write about. It is not hard to get the book out there, it is hard getting it noticed.

I hope this helps a little

tony

Tony, you hit it on the head. "It is not hard to get the book out there, it is hard getting it noticed."

The Catch-22 of self-publishing for writers without a built-in following. It sounds like you did all the right things, though. A survey done by the Taleist Magazine found that self-pub'd books that had professional editing and design sold better than those that didn't.

Sold a lot better than those that didn't...

That is good new, because I have hired a professional editor and designer. Hopefully that helps

Tony

When I was finishing my book I decided to have the cover created by a professional (having all the tools and knowing how to use them makes a huge difference), my biggest regret has been not using more of his suggestions.

I was however very blessed by his insistance that I consider having my book edited and formated by a professional. Of all the money I spent that was the best, it was also a great experience. It completely transformed my book as there are so many little tricks that I was unaware of.

If you have taken the time to write a book don't skip this last step, get some professional help. The only issue becomes finding the best ones.

And research the helps qualifications...

I saw the original question was about setting up a company. I've done this in the UK, but I'm not sure if that is relevant to the enquiry. I'm happy to chip in and tell you about it from my experience, if it helps.

With regard to the whole self-publishing adventure, I think I've been luckier than most. My first book made it to the top of the Kindle UK charts, and the second one is currently at number 11. But I have learned so much in the last eighteen months that it's way too much to put on a forum like this.

I agree with the comment that a publisher has a lot to offer - but it's possible to get a great cover done and have a book professionally edited without having a publisher. A huge advantage is if the publisher is prepared to put money behind the marketing - but I know a lot of authors say that doesn't happen.

I've just set up a discussion Q&A with Rachel Abbott - and I'm really happy to answer any specific questions about my own experiences this link should work so while I am not suggesting for a minute that I have all the answers, I might be able to help with a few suggestions. I'm prepared to try, at least!

It's been a while since I've checked this thread - for some reason my internet explorer does not like this site and keeps giving me a 404 error - it's fine on Google Chrome, however!

Thank you to everyone who has replied - Rachel I will check out that link, thank you.

Tony and Mark, I do have a professional working on the cover; Writers Workshop are assessing the MS and I am now on a Writing Course with Faber which I am hoping will help me polish it further. I've registered myself as self-employed under my company name of Neon Sky Books... and we will see what happens!

Marc wrote: "When I was finishing my book I decided to have the cover created by a professional (having all the tools and knowing how to use them makes a huge difference), my biggest regret has been not using m..."

What kind of rate did you pay for the editing, and what kind of editing?

Hi Judy,

I paid $1,200. The work consisted of taking a Word document and turning it into a PDF that could sent to a publisher. It felt high at first but it was much more involved than it appeared. There was a lot of font, header, titles, and footer work to do. In addition she went and added pictures, decorative boxes, and even suggested some adding some quotes as part of helping the book flow. There was also some Excel files that needed to be enhanced and some new material that needed to be created. When it came back to me I was amazed, it looked and felt professional. She turned it into a book.

The actual editing was very light so I guess it was more formatting than anything. I don't know what the rate would be for a more normal book but I know mine had no shortage of odd features that took time (worksheets on perforated paper that tear out).

If you'd like some names I'd be happy to share. I've had very good luck with people so far.

Hi all,

I haven't self-published, but I did have two books reissued this year by an epublisher, and I ended up commissioning my own covers. I think the illustrator, Gale Haut, did a great job. Take a look at these cover reveals. If you're interested,there's a link there to his site. http://bit.ly/11R2kdn

Just a quick addition, David Mamet, the Pulitzer Prize winning author and playwright, recently announced in the NY Times that he would be self-pubbing all his books from now on and is no longer going the traditional big 6 route (though I think he's keeping his agent). This should take away the sting of comments from those who think self-pubbing is rubbish. If someone the caliber of Mamet is self-pubbing, the great sea change in the publishing world is well on its way to changing the book world.

The thing about self-publishing is the amount of seriously hard work that has to go into the marketing. Since I published my latest book about seven weeks ago, I have done no writing - I'm just marketing all the time.

A good deal with a traditional publisher might take some of that away. Having said that, I know many traditionally published authors who say that they have to do just as much marketing as they did when they were self-pubbed - so it's certainly not a certainty that a book would get any marketing focus from the publisher.

My biggest fear is going for a traditional deal, and finding that my book is in 10% of the largest bookstores, where one paperback copy can be found if you search hard enough through the shelves at the back.

So for now - marketing or no marketing - I'm quite happy with the way things are going as a self-pubbed author in the UK and traditionally published in the US.

I actually set up my publishing company before I self-published, thanks to a freelance publishing job I did for another writer. When I was ready to e-publish my first novel, The Red Jade Door, it came out under Kelmscot Publishing. Personally, I think it looks better for your self-published book to appear under a company name, rather than just your name.

I would encourage you to consider this option, for the tax advantages, if for no other reason. Set up a business checking account, and use it to pay for anything related to your writing: books, supplies, new computer, etc. It's all deductible at the end of the year.

Beyond that, I have always intended for Kelmscot to be a true publishing company and get involved with new authors and to help veteran authors get their out of print back catalogs out again. I have actually been able to keep a flow of free-lance work coming in to help finance my minimal operations, which is good, since I'm still waiting for the book income to make me rich. ;)

http://kelmscotpublishing.com

Marc wrote: "Hi Judy,

I paid $1,200. The work consisted of taking a Word document and turning it into a PDF that could sent to a publisher. It felt high at first but it was much more involved than it appeared...."

Thanks, yes, about $1000 was the quote I received for my book, mostly because of length. (It's fiction.) I'm a whiz at Word so I did my own formatting and I'm very happy with it, but I can imagine dealing with tables and pictures would complicate things. I also set up my own publishing company.

Unfortunately I just don't have the money for full copy-editing, so I've had to make do with having a lot of writer friends help me trim and perfect things. I'm an English major so grammar isn't an issue, but I can get wordy.

Reneé wrote: "Just a quick addition, David Mamet, the Pulitzer Prize winning author and playwright, recently announced in the NY Times that he would be self-pubbing all his books from now on and is no longer goi..."

Mamet has years of commercial publishing under his belt. He has a built in following. He knows the ropes and with an agent to sell his rights like audio, overseas, foreign, etc, it's not like he is a newbie without a clue. If he was, an agent would not touch him...

Stephen King went this route years ago. He said never again. Others have also gone this route and they use it as a leverage with the big guys. Many commercial authors are using self publishing for their back list, a great way to keep old work in the public eye.

But to say this is proof that self publishing beats commercial publishing just ain't so...

As a side note, E book sales only rose 54% in 2012 compared to triple digit sales in previous years since 2010. E books have slowed down, but that is not to say they are going anywhere. Just like the commercial publishers, they aren't going anywhere...

Nick wrote: "Reneé wrote: "Just a quick addition, David Mamet, the Pulitzer Prize winning author and playwright, recently announced in the NY Times that he would be self-pubbing all his books from now on and is..."

Nick, I agree with you on many points. I just was excited to see someone like Mamet taking a try at it. As for the slowdown, I think part of the it is the sheer volume of new writers who are publishing. I would never compare King to Mamet as far as quality or quantity goes - Mamet has the Pulitzer and King has sales and both have very devoted fans.

It takes time and hard work to build a following, even if you're traditionally published. Very few writers will ever achieve King's wealth or Mamet's status; but, I like Mamet. Great writer.

Anyway, whether you self pub, go the indie route or the traditional route, you'll still have to get out there and market and promote your books. It's hard work and takes wicked self-esteem to take the criticism. One of my favorite stories is about Hemingway almost coming to blows with the NY Times editor over a review of For Whom the Bell Tolls. Max Perkins (if only we could all have an editor and friend such as he) stopped Hemingway from physically assaulting the editor. I think we all have to have thick skins when it comes our work, no matter how it comes into the world. Oh, and a good and fearless editor who's not afraid to tell you to cut 380 pages or more from a book that could be used as a doorstop. :)

I've been reading through this discussion and found it very informative. I'm a self-published author since 2007 of a cozy mystery series. I went the traditional route and tried to get it published and tried to find an agent. I was frustrated not only by the rejection, but often found they liked the story, it just didn't quite fit them. After several of these, thanks but no thanks. I did give up for awhile. I decided on self publishing because I didn't want the book to disappear.
There are things I loved and hated about self-publishing. The freedom is a turn on. Total control over your content and profits. I could choose my own covers and so on.
The hard part about self publishing, was the selling of the book. The marketing is still very difficult for me. Not only are you selling the book you are selling yourself. I'm still learning.
I'm on my fourth book and it still hasn't gotten any easier. I have the opportunity to have one of my books turned into a audio book. Now I'm debating this new option.
What started as a hobby has become my other full time job. There aren't enough hours in the day to do both. With a publishing company you would think some of this burden is taken from you. However, I've known authors who've been published by traditional houses and they do as much work as I do.
All in all, I've learned a lot. Lots and lots of mistakes were made. But I like to think I'm getting better at it. This is not to say, if a publishing house wanted to pick up my books, I wouldn't say no. Well maybe.

I agree Jill...and when I tell people this is my first book as a publisher, it's amazing how many people are willing to bend over backwards to help me. Very helpful and patient.

I learned from my first book, that even though I had a publisher, I was doing all the work to promote and sell my book, and they got a big cut. So I figured why not do it for myself and get the publisher's cut too...lol

Bookstores are reluctant to stock self-published (SP) works. Why? Because typical SP quality is so low that the effort to screen the good from the bad is more than they can afford. They much prefer to buy from distributors dealing in books produced by conventional publishers.

But if you are lucky enough to find a publisher, if it's your first book, they are unlikely to do much serious marketing unless you are a celebrity or have already sold 25,000 copies of a SP first edition.

The usual model of a single author marketing a single SP book via a website works only if you are already known by several thousand people. A far better model is a coop website: ten to twenty authors and as many items for sale as possible.

Printing, design, and editing services can be pooled or can be negotiated by the group, with much more swat. The effort to maintain the website or participate in book fairs, among other things, can be written off across more people/more books.

If all goes well, the group can incorporate as a small publishing house. The group must maintain quality standards at least as high as major publishers. (The good news is, that's not very high anymore.)

A mechanism to ensure parity is also necessary, so some people aren't getting away with substantially less effort than other coop members.

It won't be perfect, even under the best arrangement, but it can be a hell of a lot better than getting low royalties from Greedsville Press, or wearing yourself out trying to sell your one title.

Comment? Dissent?

It sounds like a good idea. However, I went with a small publisher who I believe incorporated at first pretty much like that. They don't seem to have a good handle on publicity and marketing and I suspect you have to 'be somebody' in the business to really make that work for you.

But I really like the idea. It's unfortunately like small businesses trying to compete against chain box stores...

Some interesting points there, J.

Which particular marketing tasks lend themselves to pooling?

Rosen wrote: "Some interesting points there, J.

Which particular marketing tasks lend themselves to pooling?"

Rosen, above, I used "pooling" to mean sharing internal resources, "negotiating" to indicate sharing of external resources. But talking more generally about coop synergy in marketing, inside and out:

1. Printing of bookmarks/postcards covering several books, rather than one for each author. [Compare the quantity discount for 2,000 publisher bookmarks vs 500 x 4 authors.]
2. Hiring a publicist for the group rather than individually.
3. Bulk mail (where practical) with enclosures promoting multiple works. [Bulk mail is rarely helpful, so use with care.]
4. Renting a table at a book fair or similar event for the entire group, rather than for one author.
5. Buying 1 large ad for the coöp, instead of n small ads. [Even coöp ads aren't always a good idea, either, so be judicious.]
6. Making a roster of indy store visits. Each member distributes info for everyone to his/her assigned stores.
7. Critiquing each others' press releases, etc.
8. Showing up for each others' book signings or readings.
9. Maintaining a group website store.
10. Sending a rep to marketing seminars who then reports back to the entire group on what was learned.
11. Maintaining a group library of writing and marketing books.
12. Finding and retaining a contract graphic artist.
And so on.

K.A. wrote: "I really like the idea. It's unfortunately like small businesses trying to compete against chain box stores... "

Sure, K.A., but it's ten times better than what you have now and will give you ten times the chance of making an impact on the market.

Thanks J. That's a great list. I've been giving the matter some thought myself and came up with some of the same ideas, but you've thought this through in a lot more detail than I had. I appreciate you sharing.

Rosen wrote: "Thanks J. That's a great list. I've been giving the matter some thought myself and came up with some of the same ideas, but you've thought this through in a lot more detail than I had. I appreciate..."

I hope it helps, Rosen. Obviously, it's not as easy to carry out as it is to suggest, but should be an improvement.

I'm currently working through an excellent boutique publisher, World Nouveau Books. Because they're local to me, we're able to do a bit of the above, but have barely scratched the surface of the potential synergy. Yet.

Note, too, that as the group goes along, members can share other ideas for multiplying their effectiveness.

If you're serious about trying this kind of coöp, start with a core group of the best writers you know and draft a "how it works" agreement, then see if it looks practical. Think ahead! Think Quality!

Five Directions Press is just such a cooperative. I handle editing and typesetting, Courtney J. Hall is our graphic designer, Diana Holquist has a background in advertising, and Ariadne Apostolou is our writing conscience (the one who keeps the writing "real"). We have three books out so far, with three more due this year—maybe four.

Another example is Triskele Books, a group of writers in the UK. They cooperate in hiring people, whereas we do all the work ourselves, but the idea is the same. Liza Perrat is one of their Goodreads authors.

You can Google both groups if you want to know more.

Marketing and distribution are still the big challenges, but probably not more than for most small publishers. And by guaranteeing quality and allowing for cross-fertilization, we hope to improve the marketing over time.

Thanks, J., for raising this topic!

I'm a Goodreads newbie as an author. A resource I found that I've found very useful is Guy Kawasaki's APE: Author, Publisher, Entrepreneur. How to Publish a Book. I'd already completed the first two parts--authoring and publishing--and was searching for marketing advice. Lots of practical suggestions in the "Entrepreneur" section.