Indie Book Club discussion

Is it my imagination or does it seem like droves of people are jumping ship from Goodreads without even giving Amazon a chance. I know they are the Behemoth of Behemoths now, but for Pete's sake (yes, I know I sound like Barney Fife) at least wait until they do something to honestly offend you. There might be hints here and there that they might be moving toward the "Dark Side", but honestly, up to now they've at least treated ebook authors pretty fairly, certainly as compared to anyone else. I HAVE found that once you've written a great book, it is harder than ever to get noticed and stand out; we are all grains of sand on a very large beach. As far as Readers and Book Lovers go (and I am one of those, too), Amazon (as far as I can tell) has done nothing yet to change the features and what users already like about Goodreads. Just my two cents, though I don't know what the future holds . . .

Indeed. There are quite a few people who have issues with Amazon themselves for one reason or another. The gist of a lot of the posts is people are worried that GR will become another forum for Kindle, overrun with authors, full of ads spamming all the time or simply lose the independence it had, and they did not want their information shared with amazon.

I think there is a feeling that Amazon does nothing to help authors or small book shops.

I am not saying I agree or disagree with these sentiments but that was the gist of the arguments.

Personally I am sticking around to see what happens, if it all goes horribly wrong then I may leave, but the chances are not a good deal will change. I shop and sell through Amazon anyway so I personally don't mind them. Hopefully the other platforms will be maintained and things will remain much as they are.

Will have to wait and see.

I've had a small press since 2006, and Amazon has been in the small press and self-publisher's court when the rest of the publishing industry has not. As much as I like Apple, when Steve Jobs made a deal with the big publishers to go with an "agency model" (i.e. the publishers choose whatever price for eBooks they went, and iBooks would take a 15% commission and not pressure to keep eBooks under $10), Amazon came up with the idea of giving 70% royalties to anyone or any company keeping the prices of their books between $2.99 and $9.99. That's helped the little guy enormously.

Createspace was invented to keep prices low for self-publishers creating print books. Before Createspace, it was just a little bit more expensive to go POD.

That said, I've liked how Goodreads helps drive sales on Nook, not just Kindle, and I'd hate to see that go away.

On the positive side, books that have more customer reviews on Amazon tend to sell more, so the idea of Goodreads reviews showing up there is a good thing. All Amazon wants is for more books to be sold, and don't most authors want more sales?

I also haven't found everything on Goodreads easy to use, and Amazon's interface has always been great. I'm hoping Goodreads will get some of Amazon's web designers.

That's a very balanced view, Alexandra. I've seen some other posters, on the other hand, simply say Sayonara and leave without even seeing what the changes are. For me, I do see the whole ebook world changing pretty soon, and this may be one of the precipitators, where authors form their own sort of enclaves to sell books. I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon, B & N and others create partitions, or areas, where vetted books can be looked over and purchased for the more discerning. Of course, I could go two ways about this. I like the ability for quality books to stand out more, but I also think it would take away from the democratic process we have now (or should I say market-based process).

Without Amazon I don't think indie publishers/authors could succeed. Amazon provides the best market and the best profit margin available in the publishing industry, and I am grateful they exist. Yes, they are a behemoth, and big behemoths can be very scary when they decide to throw their weight around, but so far I feel they have been more than fair to Indie authors, so I am prepared to wait and see.

Amazon is no better or worse than any other multinational, they all have dubious practices, that is business. They are in it to make money not treat people well.

Goodreads needs to pay the bills one way or another and I think a lot of people would seriously consider a lot of money for their business, and that is what it is. The ads are annoying but adblocker is there.

I guess people must do what they think is right, if someone is that unhappy with it then it is up to them to make a decision.

If the market fragments it is usually the big players which survive.

M.R. wrote: "I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon, B & N and others create partitions, or areas, where vetted books can be looked over and purchased for the more discerning. Of course, I could go two ways about this. I like the ability for quality books to stand out more, but I also think it would take away from the democratic process we have now (or should I say market-based process)...."

B&N already segregates Nook Press (formerly PubIt!) books into what is essentially a ghetto separate from their other titles.

Hi JD, Thanks for your comment. What happens if you don't convert from Pubit to Nook Press? How is the Nook Press separate?

Karen wrote: "Hi JD, Thanks for your comment. What happens if you don't convert from Pubit to Nook Press? How is the Nook Press separate?"

I'm not sure how B&N is going to handle people who don't convert over. We'll have to wait and see. The Nook division is being spilt off from B&N's brick and mortor and print division, and Nook Press is going with it.

Thanks.

Amazon pesters me on a daily basis to join their KDP Select program and abandon everyone else.

Ain't gonna happen. :)

I've never had any issues with Amazon. In fact, just the opposite. As a consumer I've shopped with them since the mid-90's back when web commerce was just getting started. As an author, I've been with them for a few years now and I don't think anyone can argue that they haven't opened more opportunities and done more for indie writers than any other retailer out there.

As for Amazon buying Goodreads, there may be some downside but I'll wait and see. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to Amazon in the meanwhile, though.

J.D. wrote: "Karen wrote: "Hi JD, Thanks for your comment. What happens if you don't convert from Pubit to Nook Press? How is the Nook Press separate?"

I'm not sure how B&N is going to handle people who don't ..."

PubIt is supposed to be going away, so I would guess they're either going to delist any titles not moved over or maybe just force the issue by moving them over themselves.

The latter seems unlikely, though, because I think you'd have to accept the new TOS.

Jeffrey wrote: "Amazon pesters me on a daily basis to join their KDP Select program and abandon everyone else.

Ain't gonna happen. :)"

This January when I released Extended Edition of Great Succession Crisis, I caved to that pressure. HUGE MISTAKE!!! I lost three key months and lost many readers because they just don't want or like Kindle and prefer another device. This includes one of my many cousins who is JUST NOW starting my book when she wanted to read it in February!

I have to say Select worked for me, at least for a while, but then I have a kindle and a lot of my friends do. It certainly is not the case it works for everyone. I think it is good advice to consider the advantages and disadvantages of Select, and the other options available.

I had hmm maybe about 6 borrows in 12 months and 2 promotions, the second of which I think did help BUT it does restrict the market to Kindle only. I had a few people asking about Nook and such and once B and N was available in the UK it did seem sensible to branch out.

I have to say I still get most of my sales through Amazon but I have had a couple elsewhere and the vouchers for Smashwords are REALLY useful, either to reduce the price or offer free for a limited period.

At present Book 2 is just on Kindle but I think I will upload it to SW when the 90 days are done.

The downside of losing 70% royalties in a country in which I don't sell any books is not a loss. I suppose it hinges on 1) whether you intend to use the 5 days free promotion and 2) whether you are bothered about the borrows for Kindle Prime. If the answer is no then branch out.

I don't agree with the KDP Select program from a marketing/monopoly program, but it doesn't have to effect the readers. If your book is just on Amazon and you have it DRM-free, it is easily converted after download to an EPUB or whatever other format you want. I do most of my shopping on Amazon, not because I have a Kindle (in fact I have a Kobo) and I don't really like the fact that I have to download the Kindle PC App and "Send" the files there, basically usually it as a glorified download manager, but such is life. Many authors only have their books on Amazon, so I am limited to this if I want to read it. Also, for whatever reason, when sales go up, much of the time Amazon is considered the priority and places like Smashwords are left by the way side, so the price isn't even lowered there.

The bottom line is... if you have subscribed to the KDP Select program, make sure to always publish DRM-free so that you don't lose readers. (Also, always publish DRM-free all the time anyway because it is better/saner/healthier/smarter/fairer to you as an author as well as your readers.)

Daniel, most authors publish to KDP first as it is a darn sight easier than the SW meatgrinder, it is also the biggest seller so it makes sense.

Certainly until recently Barnes and Noble wasn't available in the UK.

Right. I understand that, but as Laurel mentioned, she lost some readers over it at the beginning. A way around this is offering them DRM-free so that people can read them wherever, whenever, and however they like, regardless of the purchasing medium.

I went with Amazon first, primarily as I hadn't heard of smashwords. Then I stayed simply because I had heard of so many people struggling with the meatgrinder. I leave DRM on for Amazon but that is my choice.

Anyway I suppose it is author choice, there are pros and cons for each side.

I've made this offer before, and I'll do so again. If anyone has any problems releasing their book(s) to SW, and meatgrinder flips them off, ask away! I'll be more than happy to lend a hand. I have all my books listed on SW w/o any problems.

I'm also a MS certified computer tech, so that might help a little... :)

J.

To be honest I think the problem I had is self inflicted. I didn't read the guide very well. and I had edited a few bits from the word doc, so it had all this formatting which mad the meat grinder sad. When I add book 2 there I might take you up on it

I am hoping amazon will utilize their advertising brilliance to suggest books to readers. I use a nook, and the majority of my book purchases are found in the little ticker at the bottom in the "people who bought this book also bought" section. This is also a feature on amazon's site. I haven't seen this on goodreads, and I would enjoy it. The goodreads recommendations for me never seem to change, and they are not books that I'm very interested in reading. I think amazon is capable of greatly improving that feature for goodreads members.

True, there is a greater potential, but I think that all recommendation lists suffer from the same issues. I want to have a concise breakdown when rating a book so that if I like a book, Goodreads will know what I liked about it any why so that it can more accurately suggest books to me... not just. "Oh, this is another fantasy novel, and you seem to read a lot of those so you will probably like it." If there were a system like this out there somewhere, I would eat it up. What can I say, I am OCD when it comes to organizing and managing my books.

I've put an Author's Note at the end of several of my books. I've recommended several, all of which I've read and thoroughly enjoyed. All of which were Indie authors from within this club, actually.

Even mentioned a few in my actual books. It's fun and gives a shout out to other authors!

Big J

Good deal. As always, the best advertising is word of mouth.