Reading the Classics discussion

Discuss "An Encounter" here.

There's an unpleasant undercurrent here - what is the old man talking about and what exactly was he doing which caused Mahony to think him a queer old josser. There's a feeling that the boys are in some kind of danger, but I don't know if the sensation that they might be in sexual danger is a reflection of modern sensibility.

The old man who may in fact be less than old is certainly a pedophile, but his exact purpose is never revealed. The real purpose of the short story is to create a mood of danger, to bring the truant boys into a field of peril that is never revealed. What is revealed is that their future will almost certainly not be as expected. Reality is inexplicable and the simple certainties of Father Butler will never be the parameters of life they will know. This short mood story demonstrates Joyce's feel for youth and its vocabulary and is a precursor to the great works eventually to come. Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, and above all, Ulysses.

you are right @Tom to call it "a short mood story" I think the mood here was a motif itself. Joyce writes delicately and passes embedded messages.

I didn't like the "queer josser" one bit and I think he represents the evils of modern life when compared to the old teachings of Father Butler.

There were dirty old men then just as there are now, and I do think that he is doing what we think he is doing. It's quite a bit unsettling.

What that overshadows is how the boys longing for adventure. They plan this grand adventure to see the pigeon house. One boy doesn't even show, they never get to the pigeons, they chase a cat and meet a pedophile. They could have done all that at school! School that was going to be out for Summer break soon anyway. I think this story is less about adventure and more about , "youth wasted on the young."

I'm sure Joyce had a point in writing these stories, but so far whatever the point is escapes me.

I'm not so sure that the old josser is a pedophile. It could be he's just a lonely old man wants a bit of company.

The term josser in British just means, according to one dictionary, "fellow, especially one who is or is made to appear foolish or simpleminded." (In Australia it refers to a clergyman!) Since no young girl is likely to have much interest in him now, he has to take his pleasure in girls vicariously. And his talk about whipping boys seems to me as much the sort of talk the older generation uses to criticize the younger as any issue of pedophilia (at that time, whipping boys in school was still quite normal).

Admittedly he isn't a very pleasant companion, but what boy on an adventure would consider such an old man a pleasant companion?

I wondered whether Joyce was presenting the old man as a substitute for Leo Dillon. There were supposed to be three people on the adventure, and in the end there were.

On the whipping issue, I had forgotten that the boys were "guessing how many he [Dillon] would get at three o'clock from Mr. Ryan." Presumably this means cane strokes, since at their school they aren't whipped. But they seem to expect physical punishment.

I wondered whether the protagonist here was the same as in The Sisters? Same boy? Or an entirely different set of characters unrelated to the first set?

Everyman wrote: "I wondered whether the protagonist here was the same as in The Sisters? Same boy? Or an entirely different set of characters unrelated to the first set?"

I've been thinking that myself. These may be romanticized rememberances from Joyce's past. Even if it's not the same kid, it feels natural to read it that way.

While reading the story, I assumed it was the same boy, but looking back on it, it could very well have been an entirely different cast of characters.

The boys set out to have an adventure (or might I say, a naive, romanticized 'adventure'), but the adventure they had was real, harsh, uncomfortable and not at all what they had planned.

I assumed the old man was a pedophile, there seemed to be a lot of sexual undertones to his talk and it was very uncomfortable to read. Whatever his intent, the boys were certainly wary of him and I'm glad they got away before the situation deteriorated further.

Everyman wrote: "I wondered whether the protagonist here was the same as in The Sisters? Same boy? Or an entirely different set of characters unrelated to the first set?"

I kinda see this boy as being a lot younger than the first one... This is a pretty naive adventure.

"I've been thinking that myself. These may be romanticized rememberances from Joyce's past. Even if it's not the same kid, it feels natural to read it that way. "

Excellent idea Carl, maybe it would help me to see the book that way!

The ending of the very short mood story, as it's been called here, changed my thinking about it. Was the boy learning about courage when he was careful not to bolt from the man, or was he learning about his own failures of honesty when he admits that he "despised . . . a little" the friend he calls to his aid? I found the last sentence the most challenging in terms of interpretation.

I definitely pegged the old man for a pedophile. The fact that he asked the two boys about their sweethearts, then eerily said that all young men have at least one sweetheart, and finally when he returned started describing how badly he wanted to beat boys who had a sweetheart. (More than anything else in the world.)

There are only two possible explanations that leap to my mind here. Possibly he is a homosexual who likes spending time with young boys, who may or may not be a pedophile. Secondly, he may have been hurt badly by his childhood sweetheart, and this could be the underlying cause of him wanting to whip boys who like young girls, because, after all, they are not sugar and spice and everything nice as we of the male species suppose them to be.

It may be shallow, judgmental, and politically incorrect to pin this guy for a homosexual (not that there's anything wrong with that), but that is "the feel" I got without a doubt. Given his strange comments, I believe his "encounter" with the boys is improper.

P.S. I like these little stories.