Indie Book Club discussion

Congrats to Leeland for having his book chosen as the BotM. Hope everyone enjoys the book!

:)

I guess I"d best get my ereader out, turn on the wifi, and go shopping :)

Thanks to everyone who voted. I'm excited to get more feedback on the book. Now is perfect as the beta readers for book two are just about done and I will have a couple of editorial passes to make course adjustments on book two.

As per the rules, I've got an EPUB or a MOBI/Kindle file ready to go for anyone who needs it. Just send me me an email (leeland [at] lartra-dot-com) and I'll set you up! Make sure you mention that it is for the Indie Book Club BOTM discussion. If you're feeling supportive the book is on sale everywhere and you have my deepest gratitude.

+ Leeland

I downloaded this the other day. Only about 3-4 chapters in. Enjoying it so far, although for the use of 'very unique' I am afraid that I shall have to give you a beating with the big pointy stick of disapproval :p

[My favourite non-spoiler thing about it is that it's very moreish. Early days, but so far I've not come across any bit that felt like filler or that dragged].

It's also interesting to read a fantasy with slightly more description than I've become accustomed to lately. Not a criticism, as I'm easy when it comes to that sort of thing (unless taken to extremes), it's a nice change.

Sadly I might have wait until the money fairy comes. Amazon made me buy things just after payday and having an unexpected travel cost has wiped me out.

Alexandra wrote: "Sadly I might have wait until the money fairy comes. Amazon made me buy things just after payday and having an unexpected travel cost has wiped me out."

I'll email you the mobi file. It is free for Indie Book Club members.

Yay Thanks.

Leeland wrote: "As per the rules, I've got an EPUB or a MOBI/Kindle file ready to go for anyone who needs it. Just send me me an email (leeland [at] lartra-dot-com) and I'll set you up!"

I happen to have already purchased this book a few weeks ago. I guess now would be a better time than any to actually read it. ...And there it goes, to the top of my to-read list. ;)

Daniel J. wrote: "already purchased this book a few weeks ago. ... And there it goes, to the top of my to-read list."

Double yay! Thank you :D

I've been voting for this for a while, since I already decided I wanted to read it, but now I have a couple books to read before I start it. That to say, I probably won't be part of the discussion, but I will leave a review when I'm finished.

R.A. wrote: "I've been voting for this for a while, since I already decided I wanted to read it, but now I have a couple books to read before I start it. That to say, I probably won't be part of the discussion,..."

LOL That is fully understandable. I'll still be around if you want to chat about when/as/after you read it.

I find these discussions meander on after the month:)

Really enjoying this so far. I love the Daggers and the young Ticca and also the Guild of Magi are fun. I love the vain mage. Well described action and world so far.

Oh, hey, I totally used my Prime free borrow on this book a little while back. I should get around to reading it...

Alexandra wrote: "Really enjoying this so far. I love the Daggers and the young Ticca and also the Guild of Magi are fun. I love the vain mage. Well described action and world so far."

Warning: it isn't a dark fantasy... ;)

Thanks!

Hahaha, touche. I read all sorts of fantasy:)
I won't mark you down because it isn't:)

Sky wrote: "Oh, hey, I totally used my Prime free borrow on this book a little while back. I should get around to reading it..."

Hey Sky it isn't up for free borrow anymore. I think the borrow is only good for 30 days. If you need a free copy just shoot me your email in a PM and I'll get you the mobi file.

Yes I think the borrow just lasts a month.

After meeting Duke you might be interested in Stacy Eaton's character interview with Duke at http://bit.ly/11Fi5DU

I'm not nearly as entertaining as Duke but I've been privileged to be interviewed by some great blogs:

Lindsay Buroker, Indie Superstar and Author of Emperor's Edge: "Rocking the Amazon Sales" http://bit.ly/17CItSj

Jill Sanders, Bestselling romance writer and author of Finding Pride: http://bit.ly/16SkFfz

Allison Cosgrove creator of detective Stan Brookshire: http://bit.ly/17FMnfM

Nick Stephenson, creator of Writing and Publishing Books Blog: "Magic, Mysticism, and Marketing" http://bit.ly/14krB2S

Sorry I'm late! Congrats Leeland! I'll try to get to it as soon as I can. I'm looking forward to it.

Cindy wrote: "Sorry I'm late! Congrats Leeland! I'll try to get to it as soon as I can. I'm looking forward to it."

No rush, take your time. I'll still be here. :^)

Leeland, can you clarify for me - a mark - an hour. A cycle - a month? Sometimes it sounds like a day and some times a month.

Also the currency - how much is a cross?

I have just got to the meeting in the temple with Sula... that was a surprise.

There is a nice index at the back of the book with all the terms (like how much a cross is worth, what a mark is etc). Not that hearing it directly from the guy who wrote it necessarily bad, ;)

Ah ok I wondered if that was the case. I am stupid to be able to click back and forth.

Alexandra wrote: "Ah ok I wondered if that was the case. I am stupid to be able to click back and forth."

That is one thing that I like better about print books over e-books. It is easier to look stuff up in the back, or put a bookmark there for easy reference. Maybe I'm just picky, though. ;P The only reason I found the index actually is that I was looking at it on my PC and the whole ToC is on the side for easy access/viewing, whereas it is not on my hand-held e-reader.

:)

Alexandra wrote: "can you clarify for me - a mark - an hour. A cycle - a month? Sometimes it sounds like a day and some times a month.

Also the currency - how much is a cross?
..."

Hello Alexandra,

I see Daniel already pointed you at the glossary / lexicon at the back.

Time:
A Niya-Yur second is about ~1.1 second on Earth (yes they have a little more time in their days due to rotation etc.)

60 seconds make a minute
60 minutes make a mark (aka a time candle mark)
24 marks make a day
7 days make a week
~4 weeks make a cycle (aka moon cycle) close to an Earth month
12 cycles make a year

As to the money chart you'll have to go look up the exchange rates for that. A useful list is to know the general values.

Monthly Incomes:
semi skilled laborers (teamster/porter/cook) earns ~4 Crosses
servant/domestic earns ~2 1/2 Crosses
Skilled laborers (Mason/Miller/Sailor) earns ~6 Crosses
Business owners/Courtesan/Guild Master earns >12 Crosses
A Blade/Guard earn ~6 Crosses
Junior Daggers earn ~8 Crosses
Experienced Daggers earn up to ~16 Crosses
Senior (well known) Daggers easily earn ~30 Crosses

A mug of ale/hyly cost 1 round
pot of tea/arit cost 2 rounds
glass of milk is a pence
quality spirits cost 4 pence or more
a cold meal of bread and cheese is generally available for 2 rounds
a hot meal of meat and soup is generally available for a pence (or more)

At an inn a room can be generally rented for 4-10 pence a night.

That gives some perspective to the four crowns Sula gives Ticca to "stay findable." That was the equivalent of getting handed 80 crosses or 5 months wages of an experienced Dagger or almost 2 years wages for most working class people.

You can see Ticca is trying to hold that experienced Dagger level when she asks Lebuin for 6 crosses a week or 24 crosses a month. Aka very senior pay. She was expecting Lebuin to argue the price down... What I can I say, he's rich and totally inexperienced in such things. When Lebuin agreed that rocketed Ticca up into the Senior Dagger levels of pay working for a noble house...Naturally she got a little high from that. :^)

In reading it again I see I should have split Chapter 5 "Knives are out" and Chapter 6 "Time will tell" into two halves each and woven them together. The backward time slide at the beginning of Chapter 6 would not have been so dramatic a chronological bump to get over.

At least the rest of the book stays about even keel in regard to the timelines.

Hope the bump wasn't too bad for anyone.

Thanks, perfect.

Very interesting to see you've done quite a lot of work regarding the value of money and the calendar. I think it helps a book a lot (both from a reader and a writer's perspective) to have plenty of world-building done.

I'm about 60% in. There are some bits I like, and a few bits I'm less keen on. [Vagueness set to maximum!]

Thaddeus wrote: "Vagueness set to maximum!..."

Wow no kidding. Feel free to vent at me over details. :^)

Speaking on the world building, I actually researched money going way back and built a spread sheet that let me take real world values from a specific point in history, compute the exchange rate into Duianna coin, adjust for inflation, and then compute the price in the Duianna coin system including the break down of round, pence, crosses, etc.

I also went out and bought a whole bunch of foreign money coins that are still based on real precious metal weights and sizes so I could then cross check the number of coins that could be carried in a a pouch, or coin bag and made sure that was reasonable vs. how much one would have to spend over a couple of weeks.

So I can tell you exactly how much precious metal is in each coin, how many of that coin you would need to equal one full pound of that specific metal, and then insure the exchange rate between the coins was correct given the price of each metal.

It was a fun exercise in research, I learned a lot about money systems, and precious metal exchanges. The historical aspect was really interesting.

Wow! That is crazy dedication to learning about the money system. It reminds of of Tolkein who was really linguist who penned the dwarvish and elvish languages. Because language is built on culture, he built a culture off of that, and thus the LOTR world was born. What a great testament the small inner workings of a world informing the story. Leeland, I must applaud and respect you for such attention to detail, and admit that I don't do nearly enough of this in my own writing.

Daniel J. wrote: "Wow! That is crazy dedication to learning about the money system. It reminds of of Tolkein who was really linguist who penned the dwarvish and elvish languages. Because language is built on cul..."

Thanks Daniel, honestly it was a lot of fun until I hit the data entry point where I had to start translating all the item prices. After a few pages of stuff it felt like a day job... :^) At which point I stopped and I have the real world prices in one page and now I just add the entries as I need them while writing. Much easier to do.

When world building I think it is important to make it a workable system, but creating details which do not influence events, or characters is too much.

This is a problem that I think plagues many authors. The more we as authors learn about a world, the more we want to tell about the world. Such fine details that may excite us as writers might not even make it into the finished product because they don't inform the story we are trying to tell. I think it's important to create these seemingly uninfluencial details, just so as an author we can be better informed about and invested in the world in which we are writing, but this isn't a necessity by any means.

Leeland, I'm WAY behind, but I have to say, as an OCD person, I am totally geeked up over your research and detail! You could almost build an RPG game at this point ;)

Yes, nice one on the research! The world is well described and rich and I love the descriptions of the magic items, especially the boots and the cloak:)

I do like your Daggers, Blades and Knives idea as well. Your description of the magic is very interesting. Lebuin is funny. :)

Money's one of the few areas I dislike doing world-building on, because it's really tricky to get relative prices right (ie some things, like horses, were far more expensive in the past compared to other things). However, the Time Traveller's Guide to Medieval England and the Knight Unofficial Manual both have some price lists, which would be handy for such work [not that you need it, but in case anyone else reading this thread wanted a potential starting point].

I might look at those. We have a few useful RPG books which are handy for ideas and I am sure I have a book about professions in the middle ages which I mist find:)

Did anyone else just notice that there is a lady's face reflected in the blade on the front cover? I must say that the cover is super well done.

You know I hadn't noticed that as you can't see it in the thumb nail. I have to say I love the sketches at the beginning of the chapters.:)

Lebuin's cleanliness gimmick makes me laugh. Like wearing dirty sacks as clothing is the end of the world. Lol!

"The priestess saw the clasp and asked, 'What is that?'
'Nothing, just an artefact I made. It keeps my clothes clean.'
The priestess stared at it and then him in disbelief. 'Keeps you clean? Why would you waste your time making something like that? Lady, forgive me, but that is completely useless!'
Lebuin puffed up. 'It's my choice to make what I like.'"

Yes:) I wouldn't say it was useless. Darned handy if you ask me.

The artefacts are great:)

Just read the first part with Duke. I was surprised and well-pleased by hour his description was done. I find that much of the description in the book is very detailed, leaving nothing to the imagination, so you pretty much know what everything looks like to the enth detail. I was pleased that Leeland didn't even tell us that Duke was a dog out-right, but just by how he acted and such it came through. Beautiful - and I applaud that.

I just downloaded a sample on my nook. I'm not sure if I'll be able to start reading in time to join in on the discussion, but it looks like a great read!

Yes, the revelation about Duke was great, nicely done. He is funny, I wouldn't mess with him.

I enjoy, "the in between." Despite this, chapter 11 seemed a little bit rushed. The use of 1 year passing in 1 night was a believable hand-waving moment, but I felt like it was a bit much when the whole trip was pretty well glossed over along with all the skills learned and such all in the same chapter. I see that it definitely makes it easier to progress the plot by brushing over these events, but it did make the whole chapter feel a bit rushed and I had to ignore a lot of hand-waving to get through it.

Just my thoughts. Maybe other's had different experiences with this?

Finished, thinking about the review. I did enjoy it but I did feel the end was a little rushed, but it did leave a cliffhanger for the next one.
The glossary was useful.

Review is up:)

Daniel J. wrote: "I enjoy, "the in between." Despite this, chapter 11 seemed a little bit rushed. The use of 1 year passing in 1 night was a believable hand-waving moment, but I felt like it was a bit much when th..."

I agree, however, there was a lot in there. Maybe if I do an unabridged version of the story I can push out the extra two chapters this would have consumed for just Lebuin. Of course there are another two or three chapters for Ticca in there as well.

Hmm.... might just do that.