THE Group for Authors! discussion

Have you tried Craigslist?

Ohhhhh, or you know what? Go to fiverr.com

You can post listings and for $5 people will accept the job. Also, you can pick and choose and talk to them about why they think they would be good etc.

Hi Stephane,

Have you ever heard of the EFA (Editorial Freelancer's Association)? They are a terrific resource for any kind of editing, writing or whatever kind of resource person you are looking for . I, myself, do developmental editing along with writing and am listed there. What kind of editing do you need? if you want to contact me offline my email address is [email protected]. There website is http://www.the-efa.org/.

My advice is too be very careful and look at just buying some good editing software that will do more than just spell check. Unfortunately, I have very bad luck with an editor that I selected. I thought I
did everything correctly, but in the end was very dissatisfied with the outcome.
I would say this, if you get a reference, call the person and ask very pointed
questions. A contract is a good idea, but I would seriously consider a non
performance clause that includes not catching blatant errors. Additionally, be
cautious with the phrase "light touch" as it could just mean they're really not
interested in working real hard. Terms of payment should be discussed as holding
payment to the end insures a greatly level of satisfaction than do several
payments over the course of the edit, unless the editor turns over the copy with
each payment. Finally, if you ask whether the work can be published and you get
enough waffles to make Sunday Brunch, run away!

I highly recommend Anna Genoese for US English. She's very thorough, used to work for TOR, and uses the Oxford comma.

In general, good editing will be one of your most significant expenses as a self-publisher. I don't recommend skimping on it, because readers will notice.

Funny, that's who recommended the editor who I employed that did such a lousy job.

Stephanie wrote: "T.S. wrote: "Funny, that's who recommended the editor who I employed that did such a lousy job."

I think for editors from what I have read and talked with most editors do better jobs with type of..."

I didn't add a lot of detail about why I was dissatisfied with the editor referred by the editor you are recommending and I find it interesting that you supplied some for me.

Here are the issues:

1. lack of performance; errors not found, pages not touched, deadlines not met.
2. To me the book should have been delivered ready to be published and it was not.
3, Are far as your line concerning effort goes, then they should limit the genre they want to review to what they enjoy or brace themselves for not enjoying the editing process.

I will probably never use a for hire editor again based on the horrible experience I had with the editor who doesn't deserve mention.

I looked at a couple yesterday, but would have to test them before I recommend them. When I do, I will post about them. Fair enough?

cool.

Editors do not deliver a book ready to publish, no matter how much you want to believe that is the way it should be. The editor only makes suggestions and it is still up to the writer to accept or ignore those suggestions.

Alright, how about if they fail to meet that requirement?

What does your contract with the editor stipulate?

Not about to go look it up for you. I made my point, you made yours, lets just move on.

It's a tough question, because as you can see from this discussion, a good editor can make your book, and a bad one can destroy it. Writers and genres need input tailored to them. Writers also need different kinds of editing at different stages of their careers. And good editing is expensive (unless delivered after you have a publishing contract, which you can't get without having a well-edited, well-crafted manuscript).

So I would not start with Craigslist or $5 editing services but would budget $1,500–$2,000 (yes, that's how much good editing costs), then go to the Editorial Freelancers Association site listed above and look around. Find someone who specializes in fiction, for starters, and then the kind of fiction you write. Ask for recommendations. Check editors' websites. Join some of the authors' and editors' groups on LinkedIn, of which there are tons, and see whom people like and why. When you have a list of four or five possibilities, write or talk to them directly about what they do, how much they charge, how long they will take, and what happens if you don't like the results. Send a sample chapter.

Any professional editor expects to sign a contract and will supply references and edit a sample on request. If one of your candidates refuses, drop him or her and move on.

It's a project, in other words. Finding the right person takes work, but it's worth the effort. You definitely don't want to pay that kind of money only to be dissatisfied with the results.

Two other points:
Editing software can't replace a human editor, especially for fiction, where ungrammatical dialogue can be perfectly fine in context.

No editor you hire will catch every single error. Nor will s/he produce a final manuscript unless s/he is editing in preparation for self-publishing (or for a publishing house). Each house has its own style and will edit a submitted manuscript for that style, and even for content. So you are looking for someone who will either help you develop your book or clean up and polish your prose, not for perfection.

I did everything you suggested and still got burned. I would add one thing, that in the contract the work is done in stages and checked after each stage. For instance, the editor would be responsible for doing five chapters at a time, they are returned and accepted and another five are sent.

Piecemealing a manuscript for editing is very, very hard to do properly, not to mention takes a lot longer.

Think about it. Take plot points for example. The editor finds a plot point that seems to be lacking or is confusing in the first five chapters. But the editor does not know if the writer addresses this issues in further chapters because the editor does not have the full manuscript.

There is also the issue of voice. Many writers start out with one voice and lose it along the way. How is the editor keeping track of this if they do not have the full manuscript before them, along with their style sheet to keep track of where changes occur?

As C.P. states, most editors will give you a sample edit of the first chapter or so to see if you and they are a good match. If you are unhappy with the way the editor marked up the sample, or you do not agree with them on certain contextual matters, they you are free to go elsewhere. No harm, no foul, no money lost...

And yes, good editing cost money, and lets not forget the proof reader who has an entirely different skill set from an editor...

Just a guess, but is copy editing your line of work?

Nope...

Author? If so, please point me in the direction of your work.

T.S. wrote: "Author? If so, please point me in the direction of your work."

What does my profession matter if the knowledge I offer is helpful to writers who don't have the experience of working with publishing professionals?

Here's the thing, my experience with private editors is the opposite of your opinion of same. I just wanted to determine if your opinion was based on your experince as an author, and if so, whether you had obtained a level of success in part due to the use of a talented editor. If you're not an author, the point is moot.

My experience if professional and goes back more than 20 years.

My experience is in understanding what editors do and do not do, professionally.

My experience is with both good and bad editors, and wannabe editors.

Just like any other profession in life, there are good and bad editors. Don't let your singular experience cloud your judgement on how important a good editor can be...

Hi Nick,
I am a little apprehensive about having books edited by someone other than the author.
Granted, the occasional spelling mistake and technically incorrect use of tenses can be a little distracting, but I still prefer to see the soul of the author rather than that of an editor.

I have commented and blogged on editing as an indie author, sorry the return on investment doesn't add up for most authors to spend $1500 - $2000 on professional editing.

Judging by the state of many professionally published books the professionals are not much better. I have numerous examples of incorrect grammar (not just my own), typos and plot holes big enough to drive a bus through. I recently read one book that had a whole paragraph repeated verbatim ten pages after the first time.

As for software solutions I now use Scrivener which is excellent having tried two other solutions.

My best results, proof reading by a select group that you trust. They may not like the story (my wife doesn't like my current third book which is being edited) but at least she'll take the time to give me an honest opinion.

My first editor, who was contracted for me by my publisher, was great. I thought 95% of what she did/said was spot-on, and the other 5% was a matter of opinion or stuff she had missed. I learned a ton through the process and wouldn't trade it for anything.

However - since then, I've read a number of books that were supposedly professionally edited, and some of them are just chock-full of terrible grammatical, punctuation, and word-usage mistakes. I feel bad for the authors who got ripped off that way. Definitely look at other things a particular editor has done before contracting with them; they should provide you with samples upon request.

My editor, Erin Potter from Shamrock Editing is fantastic! She's a joy to work with and offers very competitive rates. I found her after hiring another editor for my first book who didn't do a very good job. (which incidentally led to some unfavorable reviews early on)

Erin not only fixed the first one for me, but I hired her for my second and now my third project. I will continue to feed her business for as long as she'll have me!