Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

I'm currently writing a fantasy series of novellas and short stories aimed at adults and want to test the water for people's attitudes to common fantasy themes; such as the existence of Dragons.

What do you all think: is the absence of Dragons in a fantasy book a deal breaker? or would you quite enjoy to see them left out for a change?

Are there other aspects of the fantasy genre you would like to see the back of? or perhaps just a new take on them?

Feed me your thoughts!

Thanks all.

Alfred wrote: "I'm currently writing a fantasy series of novellas and short stories aimed at adults and want to test the water for people's attitudes to common fantasy themes; such as the existence of Dragons.

W..."

I love stories about Dragons.
Saying that, as long as the writing is good and the plot deals with them properly, not just inserting them for no reason, then I'm a big yes!

I love dragons, but a fantasy book does not HAVE to have them for me to be interested.

I would love to never again have to read the "two guys like this random girl for no discernible reason... and we're stuck in her head the entire story and she's NOT that awesome" plot device.

I love dragons, especially those who can turn into humans :P but a fantasy series does not have to have dragons to be good.
I've read quite a few that didn't have them.

Could live without them...but why?

Dragons have been part of our culture for at least four thousand years. I have been quite amazed to find how popular prints of dragons are on Pinterest. My favourite dragon in literature is the dragon guardian of the hoard in Beowulf. As far as fantasy fiction is concerned, no dragon can compete with Smaug in The Hobbit, as far as I am concerned. I think fantasy fiction is at its best when it about the war between good and evil, the struggle between light and darkness.
If you do not include dragons in your own fantasy novel, then you ought to try to create some creatures that crawl out of the same dark pit. I have written my own version of the origin and history of angels and dragons in my book, Angel War, but that is another story.

I love Dragons...I've just been reading Naomi Novik temeraire series....that being said......dragons do get used an awful lot.....what are you going to do that's different?

I have loved Dragons all my life. I've read fantasy books without Dragons, but, I prefer the ones that have them in the story. Problem is, so many Dragons are either a nuisance, bad or evil. Or the old cliche of the hoarder Dragon. So that's why I switched it up in my book, and Dragons rule the Realms. :)

I don't think Dragons in a fantasy story is bad or necessary, but I agree, there should be a purpose for them being there.

I've got a soft spot for dragons for sure. The dragons in the D&D verse are some of my favorites. There's a nice mixture of great and small, good and evil there. I wouldn't say they are necessary for a good fantasy novel, but they can be an awesome addition to one.

It looks like everyone here wants dragons. In the edited words of Christopher Walken, "I need more dragons."

Seriously, all mythological creatures are fair game in Fantasy, as long as they're dealt with properly. I think having dragons in a book gives the world flavor. Only, make sure they have a purpose, not just as flowery scenery.

I'm kind of partial to dragons, myself; they're central to my own books. That doesn't mean I wouldn't read fantasy that didn't include them.

Jenelle wrote: "I would love to never again have to read the "two guys like this random girl for no discernible reason... and we're stuck in her head the entire story and she's NOT that awesome" plot device."

We could be friends. :)
As for dragons, I don't care much one way or the other, as long as the characters are great. I like a mix of traditional creatures and new creations, myself.

Like others above - I love dragons, but they don't define a fantasy book for me. With that said when they do appear in a story I prefer them to play some role, rather than "oh look, there goes a dragon" which is followed by everyone running for their life, or going back to whatever they were doing. :)

I like intelligent, sometimes devious, but not necessarily evil dragons, so that's what I have in my stories. I also like them to be able to take on human form in one way or another - it always opens up more possibilities :)

Greetings, I am new to all of this but I am the author of the trilogy - A Dragons Tale. I know in some respect that my writing is being driven by a bunch of great dragons in the ether world that won't leave me alone...thank goodness. On my website, this is my perspective on dragons.

A Perspective on Dragon History

There is much speculation about the origins of dragons, or if they ever existed. Let's suffice to say they are around, they have been for a very long time, and will be for a longer time yet.
Before the dawn of mankind, dragons lived a very peaceful and vibrant existence among themselves and the other beasts of the Earth plane. A special creature with an extremely high degree of intelligence and the ability to shape shift, dragons are able to co-exist, which is really their main purpose, contrary to other stories or tales.
Dragons, by nature, are curious, have an insatiable appetite for learning, are shy, primarily docile unless provoked, can be a bit mischievous, territorial, and very family oriented.
They have been the bane and/or blessing for nearly every civilization since mankind was capable of recording histories. All have had some legend, belief, or religion based on the dragon.
Dragons can and do exist in nearly every type of environment. Able to live a thousand human years plus, they tend to acquire not only a tremendous amount of knowledge of their present lifetime, but also maintain a historical timeline of their past. This knowledge is passed onto the next generation and so on and so on through their amazing genetic abilities.
A creature of the majics, dragons are part of the elemental world of Faire beings, and are able to move in and out of various dimensions. Having developed their minds to near full potential, allows the dragon to perform many of its "majical functions," such as shape shifting, casting spells, healing, telepathy, and surviving hundreds of years in hostile environments. Although armed with wisdom from centuries of history, they are no less immune to technological advancements and surprises of future events. This has been a downfall of dragons, as mankind has progressed in its ultimate goal to control this physical dimension.
Dragons, as with other species, have a natural hierarchy. Legend has it that the most advanced of the species, is the five-toed dragon; this is followed by the four-toed, three-toed and so on.
As stated earlier, dragons have the ability to shape shift. This is typically accomplished in one of two manners. The first being an illusion of something they want to portray, for the sake of subterfuge. The second is a physical transformation. This form is not used that often by most dragons. This form of shape shifting will be used to "scout" a certain species, to determine if the particular species is dragon friendly or not. Also, some dragons just enjoy being in human form, partaking in human pleasures and experiences not able to be experienced in their immense natural form.
When a dragon does make a physical transformation to a certain species, they are, by all means, identical in every way...with some exceptions. They do maintain their keen intellect, their physical strength is several times greater than that of the species they have shifted to, and their eyesight, hearing and sense of smell are the same as that of their dragon self.
Irrespective of what most people do or do not think of dragons and their existence...they are here, all around us. With all that has been written and recorded in stories, pictures and pictographs, from every major civilization known, how can they not exist?
I find this much akin to walking outside at night, gazing up at the stars, and thinking, "How can anyone be so foolish as to believe we are the only intelligent beings in the universe?"
This is my opinion and food for thought.

Mark Boyd

Joanna wrote: "Like others above - I love dragons, but they don't define a fantasy book for me. With that said when they do appear in a story I prefer them to play some role, rather than "oh look, there goes a dr..."

Joanna, you are speaking my language. I know in some respect that my writing is "dragon driven." I would love for you to check out my work as I will explore yours. Blessings to you. Mark Boyd

R.A. wrote: "We could be friends."

:) Nice to know I'm not the only one! They're just so stinkin' popular right now... and I generally get about halfway into a new book before I realize... aw, drat, it's another one of THOSE stories... sigh.

Jenelle wrote: "R.A. wrote: "We could be friends."

:) Nice to know I'm not the only one! They're just so stinkin' popular right now... and I generally get about halfway into a new book before I realize... aw, dra..."Jenelle, I somewhat agree with you even though my trilogy is dragon oriented. I chose to bring the human element into their world, ie, one of the main characters in the prophecy is a female blue dragon, Anaterri, that chooses to live in human form as a healer thus saving the life of Leandro Sargovia, Prince of the Northland by giving him a blood transfusion. This gives him dragon abilities. It is in many ways a love story with many twists but I wanted to express the nature of the dragon world learning the depth of emotion of the human world complete with its passion and flaws and the human learning of the strength and wisdom of the dragon world. At several places in the book, each species acknowledge and embrace what the other has taught. I'd hoped to impart in someway that no matter who we are or what we are, there is room to grow together and always something to learn. And I do have some really despicable characters as well:)

Interesting feedback so far, thanks! I still struggle with this question though, in my heart I always want to break away and present something new, or at least a new twist on things.


Your input is a great help :-)

Mark wrote: "Jenelle wrote: "R.A. wrote: "We could be friends."

:) Nice to know I'm not the only one! They're just so stinkin' popular right now... and I generally get about halfway into a new book before I re..."

Mark... I think you misunderstood. It's not dragons I have a problem with! I LOVE dragons. The Hobbit, Death Gate Cycle, Enchanted Forest Chronicles, Dragon of the Lost Sea... all in my top favorite series, simply because there are dragons. I have NO problem with dragons!

R.A. was referring to my post in which I stated my distaste for a love triangle story in which 2 guys like the same girl... whose perspective the book is written from... and by the end of the book, the reader still has no idea what either guy sees in her.

(aka: Hunger Games, Twilight Books, Throne of Glass... etc)


From what I've read, your book sounds quite intriguing, and not at all like the above-mentioned ones. I might have to put it on my TBR shelf... unless you inform me that it's told from a semi-obnoxious girl's 1st person perspective... LOL

Jenelle wrote: "Mark wrote: "Jenelle wrote: "R.A. wrote: "We could be friends."

:) Nice to know I'm not the only one! They're just so stinkin' popular right now... and I generally get about halfway into a new boo..."


Jenelle, thank you for the clarification. My book, books do pose an interesting twist into the dragon and elven realm (book 2). And actually Anaterri, as I characterized her, was Jennifer Connolly in my mind. She is loving, sensuous but can really kick some butt when she gets angry. Leandro had more of a Hugh Jackman look in my mind but instead of the "Knight in Shining Armor" kind of guy, I wanted to portray him as not only being strong but able to show his emotion and weak side. As an author I also took the liberty to introduce some current issues in a subtle form, ie, in one place in the book Anaterri and Leandro have definitely fallen in love and she, a dragon in human form, and he a human, now with dragon powers are faced with the dilemma of how their relationship will be perceived by the world. She makes the comment, "I will be glad when mixed species can couple and be accepted into the world."
It is important to me to maybe help raise consciousness in our world today and still tell a good story. I hope you do read the book. I would love your input. It can only me grow as a writer.

If you are still struggling with the question: dragons or no dragons, when thinking of writing your works of fantasy, Alfred, then maybe it proves that you really do not want to include them in the worlds you plan to create on the page. Though you cannot help but be influenced by the books you have loved to read, when writing your own it should be truly your own and like no other. Sculpt your own egg. Study it as it sits on the table before you. What hatches from it may not be a dragon, but it will be your creation.

Dragon's are a huge draw for me, however be careful with the whole turning into a dragon. Love Shifter books,only if they are really well done. I recently read two dragon books one was a shifter the other had to do with magic, they were both so poorly executed I was seriously wondering why they went to print. So rushed and predictable. Good luck~

Philip wrote: "If you are still struggling with the question: dragons or no dragons, when thinking of writing your works of fantasy, Alfred, then maybe it proves that you really do not want to include them in the..."

Very Insightful and is probably the way I'm going to go at the moment. I have a creature slowly being born in my mind, based on some short stories I wrote as a child. Thanks.

Dragons are great but I don't think it is mandatory to have them in fantasy, there are plenty without.

Jenelle wrote: "I would love to never again have to read the "two guys like this random girl for no discernible reason... and we're stuck in her head the entire story and she's NOT that awesome" plot device."

Thumbs up.

Yeah, good dragon stories are my favorite, but they have to have believably different characters from the humans, more different than other humanoids. They have reptilian brains, after all.

My thoughts are this: If you like dragons, include them. Everyone has a different take on dragons and how they should be. I love to see dragons in fantasy, even if it is a bit over done, but what gets me hooked is everyone's concept is different. If you don't like dragons, don't include them because you won't be able to put a shine on them like they deserve. I know fantasy has a lot of cliche mystical creatures, but again, it's the perspective that makes them different.

Laura wrote: "Yeah, good dragon stories are my favorite, but they have to have believably different characters from the humans, more different than other humanoids. They have reptilian brains, after all. "

Definitely. I think dragons should have a completely different culture... and if they are shape-shifting dragons, they should still seem... "dragonish" in some way, because it's hard for me to believe any amount of magic could make a human body capable of containing so much raw power. Just my take, though. I've definitely read books and liked books where the dragons felt more "human-ish" - but I prefer it when dragons (even good dragons) are markedly different than humans in the way they act/think/speak.

Okay, so drop the Unicorns then! lol. I'm new to this forums so if anyone on here wants to add me as a friend It would be appreciated. Cheers.

My two cents on the dragons.

I dislike anything too powerful in a series. A powerful wizard can be just as bad as an overpowered dragon. I like dragons, but, I don't like plot holes. And I think one tends to lead to the other. Well I like to keep the power on a human scale. I.E. magic that has a physical cost, or that tires out the wielder is much more palatable to me than a wizard that could conceivably kill with a word, teleport all over the place, and decimate an entire army alone.

I feel like a broken record saying this but it comes up a lot. My dragons are like animals, except that they have their own language. They are armored, breathe fire, and can fly, but they have no magic. This makes them more dependent on their riders, but even still, it is hard to invent evils to combat them.

Alfred wrote: "Okay, so drop the Unicorns then! lol. I'm new to this forums so if anyone on here wants to add me as a friend It would be appreciated. Cheers."

Don't be so quick to drop the unicorns. I usually enjoy a creative new take on just about anything. The usual cutesy, magical unicorn - blech! But the badass unicorn that goes on a rampage impaling folks on its horn and spitting venom has potential!

On another note, I will be happy to add you as a friend.

Nice, venomous unis. I like it. How about "the dragon" from the movie Excalibur? It was more an abstraction, something merlin believed in and used as a source for his magic. "The dragon" was like the force in my impression. Its influence was waning with the coming of the cross into Britain

Agree with Matthew on the pointless villains. I try to always give mine some agenda, or a reason, that would make sense if you took their side. The only thing that is trying to destroy the world in my stories is a force kind of like entropy, though that's more part of mythology of the world, rather than something characters have to deal with on a day to day basis ;)

F.F. you're right, anything with too much power can easily get out of hand. Sometimes figuring out limitations for the powers can be just as much fun as making up powers themselves.

My dragons, the ancient ones the size of a country, are part of the mythology (they're kind of like gods, or should I say on the same power level as gods, as the later exist in this world too) rather than something characters meet regularly. The Toivoan Dragons featured in the books (a race created by the ancient dragons) are actually at the level of humans when it comes to power for most of the time. It makes the stories more interesting to see them struggle. Also humans are quite powerful in this world.

Alfred - friended you :)

I could use some help folks. Is there a way to show the book cover art and story line on your author page, if the book has yet to be published. This would be for my second book in the Dragons Tale series - The Book of Genevieve. It should be ready for publication around Christmas. In a month or so I will probably start a giveaway, so I would like to get the image and storyline up now. Thanks

I would also like to ask if anyone has ever heard of a Pegasuar? It is a species I am introducing in my 2nd book. The combination of Centaur and Pegasus. I checked google and other sources as much as I could and found no reference. Maybe someone has read another novel with such a creature in it. I would love to know. Again thanks.

Mark wrote: "I could use some help folks. Is there a way to show the book cover art and story line on your author page, if the book has yet to be published. This would be for my second book in the Dragons Tale ..."

If you already have the ISBN, you can create the book page and just list the future publication date. For example, The Cleansing , which I recently added to my "to-read" list, isn't going to be out until December. I don't think you can create a book record without an ISBN or ASIN, though.

Alfred wrote: "What do you all think: is the absence of Dragons in a fantasy book a deal breaker? or would you quite enjoy to see them left out for a change? "

Do you enjoy writing about dragons? Are they going to be important to the plot, or at least to one subplot? Are they a normal part of your world, just like cats and dogs are normal pets in ours? If yes, then have fun with them; your readers will feel it, which is never a bad thing.

On the other hand, putting dragons in just "because it sells" or "because some people expect it" isn't such a good idea IMHO. This is is also something readers can feel, but not in a good way this time. (Let's just have a look, for instance, at the tons of cappy vampire romance novels that got published just because vampires are/were the trend.)

J.D. wrote: "Mark wrote: "I could use some help folks. Is there a way to show the book cover art and story line on your author page, if the book has yet to be published. This would be for my second book in the ..."

Thanks J.D. - I visited your site and have your first dragon book on my read list. I will put what I have on Create Space and develop an ISBN no. so that I can get it going. By the way, if you have not used Create Space before, I highly recommend it. There are no upfront costs if you do your own formatting and have the cover design already done. They print on demand and the quality is excellent. I have been more than pleased with them.

Dismaying...

o_0

I like dragons in moderation. I always enjoyed alchemy in fantasy stories. I like to read about the herbs they used and how the herbs affect people and different things like that.

Mark wrote: "
Thanks J.D. - I visited your site and have your first dragon book on my read list."

I hope you enjoy it!

I'll be checking out your second book as soon as it's up on Goodreads.

Vanessa wrote: "I like dragons in moderation. I always enjoyed alchemy in fantasy stories. I like to read about the herbs they used and how the herbs affect people and different things like that."

I love alchemy, although I've already touched upon it, I'm going deeper into the topic with one of my next books.