Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

(Apologies if this has already been discussed; I didn't see a corresponding topic.)

I'm nowhere near to publishing and marketing yet, but I thought about a little something that may be worth being tackled long before I get to said publishing process.

What's your take, as authors as well as readers, on which variety of English to use? Do you feel that all self-published books should be written in US English? Or is British English OK for you?

I've been wondering about that because I was taught British English. In the beginning, I'd mix both US and UK varieties, especially when taking after (mostly American) people who wrote on forums etc. on the web. However, years of studying UK literature, as well as the need to stick to "RP English" when teaching, made me instinctively use the British variety more and more.

Which, in turn, has brought its lot of 'you can't even spell!' comments. Why? Because I write colour instead of color. And every single time, I find myself having to explain that 'no, dearie, actually I can spell; I'm just not from the USA, FIY lots of people aren't, and I sure won't feel sorry about that.'

Do you think that using British spelling, grammar and punctuation might harm my writing in the long run? Or can I just say 'the hell with it, get out of your hole and learn that English comes in many varities'? (The latter being my current take on the matter, especially since the stories I write are mostly set in the UK; using American spelling and idioms would feel very weird for starters. Punctuation might be less of a problem, though.)

To answer my own question, by the way: I don't care. Most of the time I won't even notice, especially if the story's setting and/or author's nationality is/are clearly in accordance with the language used. But then, I'm not a native speaker, so maybe my bias is a little different here.

Lisa Marie Gabriel

Personally I am British - there is no cure for it, even though most of my sales come from the USA, so I suffer gladly. ;) I write in UK English with the usual smattering of Transatlantic slang common to both sides of our divisive pond. If my spelling puts US readers off, then that is indeed sad. When I read a book by a US author I am much more concerned with the quality of ideas, plot and descriptions. If the writing is good missing "u"s or substituted "z"s are of no significance. I hope US readers will give me the same courtesy, but I confess I do avoid fannies and asses! :D

I agree with U Lisa.

I have found that some readers are more concerned with punctuation and writing style than substance.

An anecdote: in the 70s, a board of directors of an electrical company on California approved in 5 minuted the billions of $ for a nuclear power plant, but discussed for hours the landscaping around it.

As I'm neither British nor American, I am always concerned about the reaction of my readers to my not quite perfect English.

I write all my books first in English and the I translate them to Spanish. Even though my first language is Spanish.

I'd say that as long as you're consistently using either UK or US spellings throughout the work, it doesn't matter. But to see "realize" on page 5 and "realise" on page 25 would be rather distracting.

And the realizar in page 45.

Hah, yes, I totally agree about consistency (which is one of the many things I'll triple-check anyway on the road to proper editing).

I'm concerned as well, to be honest. I know I'm fluent (or close to) in English, but nobody's ever safe from stupid mistakes, not even native speakers. Yet I think I'd just feel very annoyed, to say the least, at a reviewer blaming my "bad spelling throughout the book". (Have any of the published authors here gone through that, by chance?)

I guess I agree with Lisa and Gregor. I've learned British English in school, and moved to the US later.
The difference between the two languages doesn't bother me at all. The story and the characters are what counts for me. Sure some expressions will leave me wondering but not necessarily in the wrong way. Since Lisa mentioned 'fannies', now I'm going to have to search it on the internet. ;)

@Humberto I agree. Lots of people do. Personally, I know there are differences in punctuation styles and quite frankly I don't care if people put a coma before 'and' and 'but' and suddenly omit it later on. Most of the time, I won't even notice it.

I think it's so stupid that many readers criticise authors because they've used British spelling instead of American.

I think if you're a British author and have studied British literature and have learnt all the Britishisms all your life, then stick to it.

As a British reader + reviewer, I constantly have to deal with reading books by American authors who have used the American spelling and it doesn't put me off, and I don't write my reviews saying 'Oh she/he can't spell, so it was a terrible book' (I've seen some people do that and I think it's the most stupid thing ever). As British people, we always have to deal with things the American way because there are a lot more American authors, but you never hear any of us complain- why should people complain if it's the other way round? Even if most of the readers are from the US, as a British author- you stick to your guns!

And of course if you're an American author and use American spelling but your main audience is set in Britain- the same thing should apply. Stick to what you've known.

British English vs American English...it doesn't matter to me, really. As long, as someone else posted, that you are consistent in using one or the other. Whenever I have seen the spelling of a word : ie colour vs color...I look it up and because of that I learn something ( I am American) .
I wouldn't worry about it as long as the plot is good, the reader will read :).

Of course before Samuel Johnson put the first dictionary together, you could spell anything as it sounded. With accents and dialects that would have been amazing and very confusing for anyone who thought spelling was the Bee-All and End-All! (Pun intended!)

I'd have to be honest and say this isn't an option for me. I'm sure I'd be unable to consistently apply US spelling and grammar for a whole book. It would feel so unnatural that my writing wouldn't flow. Write what you know and all that.

I could always write in British English and then translate to American in editing, but then I'd end up with inconsistencies where a British-ism slipped through.

I remember reading reviews, though (sorry, I can't remember anymore for which books they were), in which (British) authors were criticised for setting their story in the USA yet using British slang/idioms. So I know that for some people, at least, it can be a breaker.

Peter F Hamilton, for example, writes a future that is totally UK. I like his novels, but sometimes I have to reread paragraphs. He is consistently native.

UK all the way. I've never sold many copies in the US, but equally it's never been a problem.

I have written a lot of freelance non-fiction articles for US clients and audiences, however. I always use UK English then as well (assuming that someone would tell me to go back and change it if this wasn't acceptable), and it has never, ever been a problem. And we're talking over $10,000 worth of copy over a period of several years here.

I think we're back to the old problem of a certain sort of person seeing SPAs as a soft target for any arbitrary criticism that flits across whatever passes for their minds.

Personally, I like it when an author writes in what they know. It makes it more authentic. Part of that is because it's not just spelling, it's also language. I remember when I first read the Harry Potter books, I read the "UK" versions. When I later bought them, they'd been "Americanized" and I felt kinda bummed. There was no more rubbish or trainers or football; it became trash and sneakers and soccer.

V.K. wrote: "I remember when I first read the Harry Potter books, I read the "UK" versions. When I later bought them, they'd been "Americanized" and I felt kinda bummed. There was no more rubbish or trainers or football; it became trash and sneakers and soccer."

And the first book's title was changed, too, if I remember well? (I never understood why.)

Yzabel wrote: "I remember reading reviews, though (sorry, I can't remember anymore for which books they were), in which (British) authors were criticised for setting their story in the USA yet using British slang..."

That's an issue of dialogue authenticity which should always apply regardless of the nationality of the author.

There is nothing wrong with having British conventions and spellings.

That being said, you could always put a note in your book's description. I commonly see this in my online writing critique group.

Note: British spelling and conventions are used in this book.

Then you can politely refer readers to said note. They can have the fun of researching what it means to use British spellings.

Tolkien never apologized for it. LOL, and my English teachers used to go crazy because I, as an American, consistently used 'grey' instead of 'gray.'

Shomeret wrote: "That's an issue of dialogue authenticity which should always apply regardless of the nationality of the author. "

But some reviewers will also criticise authors who use British idioms in stories set in the UK, with British characters, just because they're not used to them... (Ack, I wish I had kept track of those. I know I saw such criticism, but can't remember where nor when!)

Oh, and to remark on the books set in the U.S., I can say that if I set something in London, I'm going to try and remember some britishisms to make it feel more authentic. For example I'm going to use football rather than soccer, and local slang like "Brilliant!". This would also be true for a book set in Alabama, with its local colloquialisms. (Ya'll) Or South Africa. Or Brazil.

The point is to make your setting more real by using a flavor of the local dialect with local terms, but still writing in your own native conventions.

Yzabel wrote: "Shomeret wrote: "That's an issue of dialogue authenticity which should always apply regardless of the nationality of the author. "

But some reviewers will also criticise authors who use British id..."

You'll get criticisms no matter what you do.

I suggest you stick with whatever you find easiest and try to stay consistent.

I'm part of the Commonwealth, my books are set in Victorian England, and I use British spelling.

Yes I have reviews complaining about the spelling errors - more noticeable when my book is about an artifact (vs artefact). However, you can't make everybody happy and I'm not going to translate my book to American English for the US market *shrug*

Can I just say that I HATE when British characters speak like they're the Queen.

Not all of us are posh, like many people think we are. It's also like really unrealistic when British teenagers say things like 'oh darling pour me a glorious cup of tea'. No just no.

A lot of authors use stereotypes rather than actually doing some proper research.

It always annoys me when I read things like that- if you don't know how British people speak, then don't use them as characters

Annie wrote: "Can I just say that I HATE when British characters speak like they're the Queen.

Not all of us are posh, like many people think we are. It's also like really unrealistic when British teenagers sa..."

Oh, I completely agree with you on that—and by the time I get to editing my own writing, I'll make sure such horrors aren't lurking in it (not to self: find a British editor). Speaking of stereotypes, my encounters in the British Isles involved, uhm, let's see... German students, American students, a student with a lovely Geordie accent, Scottish people... Yeah, all right, I guess "posh" definitely wasn't part of it.

I should've mentioned earlier that my wondering about this whole matter was more about idioms and spelling in narratives (3rd person, especially omniscient), in which we hear the author's voice rather than the characters'. Dialogues, 1st person narratives, and free indirect speech are another matter. In such cases, stereotypes are, indeed, weird at best.

Yzabel wrote: "Shomeret wrote: "That's an issue of dialogue authenticity which should always apply regardless of the nationality of the author. "

But some reviewers will also criticise authors who use British id..."

Yes, I agree that criticizing authors who are writing narrative and dialogue with the genuine authentic flavor of the setting is more than inappropriate. This is an expression of prejudice against writers who aren't American.

Shomeret wrote: "Yzabel wrote: "Shomeret wrote: "That's an issue of dialogue authenticity which should always apply regardless of the nationality of the author. "

But some reviewers will also criticise authors who..."

More than prejudice, it's ignorance of the fact that there are different English dialects around the world. One other point: instead of using the phrase 'American English,' I suggest using 'North American English.'

Stan wrote: "More than prejudice, it's ignorance of the fact that there are different English dialects around the world. One other point: instead of using the phrase 'American English,' I suggest using 'North American English.'"

I like using the term "US English". (I was tempted to use GA/General American, but this is geared towards pronunciation, so it doesn't really work.)

And now I'm wondering how it is for Canadian, Australian, and all other authors who didn't learn fully British or US English. (I'm not sure about Canada --> closer to US, or to UK English?)

As a Canadian, back when I was in school, we were learning British English as second language. (That was many, many, many years ago, and things might have changed since then.) So we wrote colour and not color, valour and not valor. The Z and the S differences were also taken from the British, and so forth.

However, with the USA so close, and the television showing US program, books being more from the USA, etc I became a mix up. Yes, that's what I call myself because if not for the auto-correct feature, I'd have words written in US English and others in British English. And that's probably why, whether it is BE or AE I don't care. It will not stop me from enjoying a good book.

G.G.: Since you mention "English as a second language", I take it you're from Quebec?

@Yzabel Yep!

@Shomeret. Sorry, if a plot happens in the US use American English. Corollary: if it happens in Germany use German, and in India? Which one of their 400 languages?
And what about a plot that starts in London, moves to New York, then to Montevideo. I agree that the locals should 'talk' in native tongue, -- Spanish? -- but should the writer change the descriptions and prose to the native language.
It is too complicated.

In the movies everybody speaks English. That simplifies things but reduces our understanding of the world and promotes the idea that anybody that doesn't speak English is retarded.

English from UK is English, the rest are dialects? It is complicated.

MS Word has a spelling setting 'International Spanish' maybe there should be an 'International English' setting. Or we should try Esperanto.

Humberto wrote: "@Shomeret. Sorry, if a plot happens in the US use American English. Corollary: if it happens in Germany use German, and in India? Which one of their 400 languages?
And what about a plot that starts..."

At this rate, we could settle on Klingon as the universal language. What do you think? ;)

Oh, and regarding locals speaking in their native tongues: authors should also triple-check this. I've seen way too many sentences in butchered French, and I other native speakers of [insert any other language here] must've rolled their eyes as much as I've done. Surely it shouldn't be too difficult to find a native speaker on GR, FB or whatever other social network to help us translate a couple of sentences?

Klingon works for me :D

Cannot find Klingon in MS Word. Can Somebody please help me.

Humberto wrote: "Cannot find Klingon in MS Word. Can Somebody please help me."

You can download a plug-in for Word that will allow you to write in Klingon.

No offense but the day every book will be written in Klingon might be the day I will stop reading new books and stick to the ones I have and cherish them even more!

There is Canadian English. The Canadian Oxford Dictionary lists over 2000 words unique to Canada. Our spellings may look like British or US English (no such thing as North American English), but it has evolved from both. My American editor bought the Canadian dictionary so that she would know the correct spellings and grammar usage for Canadian English. But she had a lot of questions about phrases or colloquialisms that I thought were North American but were Canadian. I have had to learn to purge Britishisms from my writing to be consistent. :)

G.G. wrote: "No offense but the day every book will be written in Klingon might be the day I will stop reading new books and stick to the ones I have and cherish them even more!"

I'm with you there.

G.G. wrote: "No offense but the day every book will be written in Klingon might be the day I will stop reading new books and stick to the ones I have and cherish them even more!"

Yes, but then there will still be the problem of UK Klingon versus US Klingon :D

Yzabel wrote: "(Apologies if this has already been discussed; I didn't see a corresponding topic.)

I'm nowhere near to publishing and marketing yet, but I thought about a little something that may be worth being..."

Yzabel wrote: "(Apologies if this has already been discussed; I didn't see a corresponding topic.)

I'm nowhere near to publishing and marketing yet, but I thought about a little something that may be worth being..."

Yzabel wrote: "(Apologies if this has already been discussed; I didn't see a corresponding topic.)

I'm nowhere near to publishing and marketing yet, but I thought about a little something that may be worth being..."

Be authentic and write your British story in British English. I am English but have lived in the US for many years. My novel Pins is set in Chicago, but when Pins was ready for publication a couple of years ago, I was living in London. I worked my way into a proper dither about whether I should launch my book in British English since it seemed likely I would stay there. An English writer advised me to "be authentic" and write my American story in American English. Her advice made sense. I'm now back in Chicago and have never regretted my decision to stick with American English for my American story.

Yzabel wrote: "Humberto wrote: "@Shomeret. Sorry, if a plot happens in the US use American English. Corollary: if it happens in Germany use German, and in India? Which one of their 400 languages?
And what about a..."

Re India--Where is the book taking place in India and what is the language spoken by your characters? I would like to see some vocabulary from that language. It will enrich the novel and give it flavor.

Re fractured French--This would be appropriate if the characters are tourists in a Francophone nation or territory who are attempting to learn the language. Native French speakers should definitely speak it well. This is all part of authenticity. Will readers notice? Some will notice and may mention the dialogue authenticity of the book, or lack of it, in a review.

I write British English, so I use BE SPaG.

What I noticed is that a lot of those who quite ungraciously complain are SLE. I've stumbled across two reviewers stating that. Well, I can't be arsed to change what comes natural to me.

Arse... just yesterday I noticed a Regency Romance with a rake calling it "ass". Now that's a decided error in my opinion.

@g.g. Klingon, that is hilarious!

I've read a book recently where the one of the protagonist when she remembered her previous life was supposed to speak perfect French. It was far from it, and yes it bugged the hell out of me, but did I mention it in the review? No, because most readers wouldn't even notice or maybe even care. If it would have been any other language, I probably would not have noticed anyway. I didn't think it removed any value to the book, but was I wrong not to mention it?

G.G. wrote: "I've read a book recently where the one of the protagonist when she remembered her previous life was supposed to speak perfect French. It was far from it, and yes it bugged the hell out of me, but ..."

Actually I get livid when I see that. It's simple to find a native speaker for most languages and have them check what you write. If you can't do that for some inexplicable reason (just try the NaNo forums), then invest the 10-20 $$ it costs to have 2-3 lines translated by a professional. On freelancers it's even done in a timely manner by guaranteed native speakers.

Why am I so livid? Because this directly links to and taps into that little something called "research". These days too many authors believe they can just go ahead an invent everything. Makes for really bad books depending on topic!

@Gregor and @Vanessa :)
@Lisa Sad but true!

@Steelwhisper You're right. There's always a mean to get the right words. I think even from the internet some of the errors in the book could have been fixed. :/

I don't find a problem with it. In fact I have come across many books to which have different spellings from U.S English. Sometimes I will think they are mispelled at first but then realize it's a different way of something it. As long as the reader remembers and takes it into consideration then there's really no harm in it. Sometimes yes there is the classic grammar police but when it comes to UK spelling I would think even they understand the differences and accept them.

If anything, british vocabulary and grammar is better at times and in certain stories because it reads as old english. It gives off that old fashioned style.

A US reviewer butchered me for my British English spellings!